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Spouses/Partners with Personality Disorders

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ASoCalledLife posted 1/1/2018 10:45 AM

I'm not here to fight with you Superesse, and I am well aware that Asperger's in now included in ASD as I very explicitly stated as such.

You don't live my life nor have you walked in the shoes of the millions of people with autism spectrum disorders on this planet, many of whom are vilified openly and regularly by society, sterilized, abused, discriminated against, killed.

Perhaps you should reread my "self-reverent" posts more closely, as nowhere did I turn this into a debate nor suggest that spouses of such individuals shouldn't have a place to share. Quite the contrary; I suggested ways to do so that might be more inclusive of those with spouses with this "mental disorder".

Supernova, thank you for engaging respectfully. I'm very sorry that you were treated so poorly in your marriage/relationship and I wish you well and hope you are healing/have healed and are being treated the way that you deserve.

As I stated before, please do as you wish with this thread. I made some suggestions; I made no demands. I'm quite used to this type of reaction when those of us on the autism spectrum are foolish enough to try to assert ourselves and ask to be treated with dignity. I don't know why I bother to try because it's pointless.

I will solve this problem by ceasing to post in I Can Relate after this post.

Again, I'm sorry I said anything at all. Please disregard my posts and continue as you all see fit.

redfury posted 1/1/2018 11:15 AM

Yes, I do know what I'm doing wrong.
I didn't expect to have to talk to him. My plan was to get in and get out while he was at work. But there I am, the alarm is going off, and I sure as shit don't want to go back to jail (which was an irrational fear. That wouldn't have happened). And now he's said hes not comfortable with me going over without informing him. I guess that's fair. I didn't respond to his barrage of texts (but I did read them). I just told him I was getting the dogs

Leaving him has been in every way like breaking an addiction, but I've given it some though and I don't think it's drama. It's the Hopium. He sold me this beautiful lie about what our lives could be. Promised me everything I ever wanted. And there is a very stupid part of me that has had a horrible time letting go of that even though he has made my life a living hell. It's why I took him back so many times before. That crazy belief that 'this time' he is going to change. But I AM breaking the addiction, even though it hurts terribly sometimes (I've been told that personal growth doesn't come without pain). I don't believe him anymore. I can see the manipulation. I may have faltered for a moment, but I soon as I hung up the phone I was immediately aware of what had happened.

I was waiting to file until I had what I needed out of the house. Especially the dogs (he had made vague threats against them when I first left). Now, I have what I need for life and my doggos are safe. If he destroys anything that I don't get out, that can be dealt with in court.

Another fun tidbit. My paycheck for December has gone missing and I am broke, broke, broke. I tried to set up a new direct deposit when I left but payroll said it might not be enough time and they may have to mail it. I gave them my new address, but it never came. I suspect it got mailed to the old address, but instead of confronting him (which I have certainly thought about doing), I'm just going to have them cancel it and send me a new one. Baby steps maybe, but I'm taking control of my shit.

LongSigh posted 1/1/2018 13:11 PM

OnlyGodcanhealIT

My WH doesn’t suffer from any clinical mental health issues but I absolutely recognize the behaviors that are driving you crazy and can offer a perspective.

My teenage son has adhd. Everyone of the things you mentioned that drive you crazy, my son does. And so much more. A trip to the bathroom is 30-40 mins on the short side. He will get wrapped up in video games for hours if we don’t monitor it. He also gets moody and is incredibly distractable.

We’ve known he had the condition since he was in first grade and he’s been in behavior therapy ever since. He’s come a long way but his brain still functions differently than the norm. We’re actually focusing on him learning how to manage romantic relationships now that he’s 17. Relationships are more difficult for adhd sufferers. It involves a skill set that they need to be taught.

Just a few things I’ve learned that I hope may give you, I dunno...something.

Many with adhd have a harder time with insight. My son had to have years of CBT just to teach him how to look inward. There is a high likely hood of very low self esteem, shame and embarrassment. Conversely, my boy also seems to be a deep, bottomless well of emotion. He feels oh so deeply. When we talk, at first it’s like banging my head off a concrete wall. Eventually though, we’ll get to the meat of a problem and it’s like an emotional pimple bursts. He’s a good kid, a golden kid. He just acts before he thinks, doesn’t have strong foresight and has this erroneous deep seated fear that something is fundamentally wrong with him, he’s not good enough at anything. Then he clams up and getting to his feelings is so hard. He so badly wants to be normal and hates that he does things without thinking it through. Compulsive lying too, is a symptom. He lies about the stupidest thing and has no idea why. It’s the impulsivity. therapy helps a lot.

A lot of people think of adhd as something that only affects attention but its so much more. It effects everything from the development of their personalities to their thought processes. It’s part of them, not just a diagnosis. It’s all encompassing.

Like I said, just an outside perspective from someone who has decades of experience with adhd. I wish you the best for you and your husband.


honesttoafault posted 1/1/2018 17:31 PM

My youngest son has ADD also, and thankfully the special ed department of our school district has done wonders for him.

I felt my stbxWH was a NPD, BPD or had a lot of traits, but my other son pointed out that his father had a lot of ADHD traits too. When I looked more closely, he was right.

When I pointed out some of the behaviors, such as picking up the phone to dial someone when I was in the middle of a sentence he said, "If I don't call the business right when I think of it, I'll forget." Telling him, that's fine, just say so before you do it. And his behavior changed.

BUT

Add those behaviors of ADHD, which one can understand and the person who has it can be aware and try to work on it to BPD/NPD traits and I have a toxic mix.

Of course he has never been diagnosed. Those with BPD or NPD would never go to a therapist on their own, and would blame you for being crazy.

I have just come to the conclusion that although he has not been officially diagnosed, the traits are there strong enough to create crazy making behavior and emotional abuse.

OnlyGodcanhealIT posted 1/1/2018 18:32 PM

Thank you longsigh, and honesttoafault.

I guess it’s very hurtful when someone focuses on you, so you feel connected and that you’re in a reciprocal relationship...only to watch them lose their interest in you...firstwith an affair, then with a seemingly lackadaisical view of fixing it or trying to. It makes it very difficult to distinguish if he loves me and wants to make this work and actually do the work, or if he’s still messing around because he appears so distracted and hyper focusing on everything else except me. it’s like he forgot how to behave lovnginly , even though he used to know how to enough for me to feel wanted and loved.
I do have other interests , a job I love, friends, my daughters, but I still want the love I want and deserve from a spouse, without constantly trying to figure him out and make things comfortable for him so that he can function from a place of feeling good. I feel like we can never resume a reciprocal relationship, because we are constantly trying to manage his focus, mood and irritability.

Supernova65 posted 1/2/2018 13:22 PM

to: a so-calledlife - it’s a shame you feel so strongly about this that you’re leaving this forum but if this is what works best for you then I understand.

I take your point that you’ve made a helpful suggestion regarding starting a new thread for ppl who have struggled with wayward partners on the spectrum. I agree that if you have a thread to support just mental health issues then the umbrella is too large.

I may start a thread to support BS of those on ASD but tbh it is ever so difficult to delineate where AS traits and plain hurtful behaviour begins and ends that I’m not sure it will be helpful. As with all spectrum disorders there are as many combinations of “symtoms” as there are stars in the universe.

xhz700 posted 1/2/2018 14:14 PM

I may have faltered for a moment, but I soon as I hung up the phone I was immediately aware of what had happened.

@redfury

That is a huge step. I remember when I was able to look back and see how what I did was completely counterproductive.

I feel like I am ahead of you, but not too many steps ahead of you. It gets better, and it does so very quickly. Keep up the hard work. When you feel down, take some time to do something for yourself.

xhz700 posted 1/2/2018 14:23 PM

***

All,

This thread was made at my request. It is for support for people dealing with spouses or partners with personality disorders (NPD, BPD, HPD, APD).

There are significantly different from bipolar disorder and spectrum diagnoses.

Bipolar is a reasonable inclusion here because bipolar is often either comorbid with the cluster B disorders, or is a stop diagnosis on the way to one of these disorders.

Discussion of Aspergers and spectrum related disorders does NOT and should NOT belong here. Spectrum disorders are NOTHING like personality disorders. While you may have issues with someone on the spectrum as it relates to infidelity, the support here doesn't apply to your situation.

Simply put, the support here is purposed for the unique challenges that you face when dealing with someone with a personality disorder. Much of the advice in other areas here just doesn't apply to this situation, which is why I asked that this thread be created.

xhz700 posted 1/2/2018 14:38 PM

@superesse

For someone with Asperger’s to turn the conversation into a debate about their diagnosis not fitting a “personality” disorder, misses the bigger picture, the clearly-stated reasons for creating this space to post: for Spouses/Partners to have more peer support after suffering from infidelity along with the mental health issues their spouse brought into the relationship.

You are actually incorrect. This isn't a general support for any mental health issues. It is too broad of a category, and I couldn't agree more with what ASoCalledLife stated in every post. She did nothing to turn this into a debate, but was more concerned with HOW the thread could be more inclusive in a way that would be less judgmental of those inclusions. I, frankly, disagree that there should be inclusion for the exact reasons that she stated.

ASD and cluster-B PD's are MILES AND MILES AND MILES apart and I while I have done my fair bit of research with PD's, I wouldn't know where to begin with ASD. I can't imagine that there would be a ton of overlap advice that would apply to both.

As I stated above, I requested that this thread be created, specifically for the purpose of giving advice that not only doesn't fit the standard cookie-cutter advice given here, but also specifically deals with the cluster B personality disorder spectrum.

isitme24 posted 1/2/2018 15:24 PM

Redfury

Devalue, Discard cycle. He engaged in black or white thinking where I was either the greatest thing to ever walk on two legs (an impossible standard to live up to)

Of course that's impossible.

or a worthless piece of crap

...and so is that.

Neither are true but the idealize, devalue, and discard cycle does significant damage to your psyche. I struggled mightily until I realized this was just a fantasy played out over and over in exWW's mind. None of it was me. I was just a character in her delusional self-perpetuating world. As soon as I was killed off in her story, a "new hero" was written in. That's the real bitch of dealing with a BPD...they have a parallel reality that occasionally intersects with the rest of us.

[This message edited by isitme24 at 3:26 PM, January 2nd (Tuesday)]

xhz700 posted 1/2/2018 15:26 PM

I was just a character in her delusional self-perpetuating world. As soon as I was killed off in her story, a "new hero" was written in. That's the real bitch of dealing with a BPD...they have a parallel reality that occasionally intersects with the rest of us.

That is one of the best explanations I have ever heard for BPD.

Wiserallthetime posted 1/2/2018 21:23 PM

Background, short version:

Xwh had, before the D filing, taken our middle child on what was to be father-daughter events, surprising her with mow and sometimes mow's child and/or xwh's sibling along (obviously keeping it all secret from me -- yet still today denies there was an A....). During the D proceedings (over 3 years long), mow was restricted by court order from contact with me or our kids, and the final custody order contains restrictions that have to be met before mow can be around our youngest, with one of those still not met yet. Being they are both likely disordered, xwh and mow have little regard for that restriction, or court orders in general, and she has been around anyway. He has also added mow and mow's child to events with our youngest. (Only way to prove the violation is to put child on the stand, which is a no-go with the judges here and with me.) Mow has also been at the recent holiday events with xwh and our kids. Our two younger children, at least, have been quite clear with xwh they are not happy with these actions, not happy with having mow brought into things at all, and especially to the special events things, so he has no reason to think otherwise, or any excuse of not knowing.


Story/Vent:

Xwh last year (2017) bought our middle child tickets to an event that still isn't for a good while; it was a birthday present. Those tickets arrived recently, and he sent a text to say so. The child acknowledged this text. Xwh then "joked" about how he had gotten four tickets, one for the child and three for him and his two "friends" (clearly meaning mow and her child, though I am not sure the event would even be appropriate for that age child).....with a "jk" after..... When our child didn't respond, he said something to the extent of guessing our child didn't find that funny, to which the child responded with a "no." His next statement was just to say "I did.".....

Fortunately, the child recognizes this as a display of xwh having zero empathy, though neither of us can fathom how one can find such a thing funny. Unfortunately, this is the child's father, and, unless the child decides to cut him off, the child has a lifetime in which to deal with this lack of empathy, too. But, the child recognizing this is a first step in getting to realizing he likely is personality disordered - un-diagnosed, but disordered nonetheless.

(Ugh....a thought came to mind, which will now get to dance in my head for months until this event happens: what if he really does go ahead and bring mow and/or her child on it?? He has been known to pay the exorbitant prices, without a thought, to buy last minute tickets, just to include mow.... sigh......)

xhz700 posted 1/3/2018 14:05 PM

@Wiserallthetime,

How old are your kids?

I have one DD13 and I have to deal with things like this all of the time. It seems that they are aware of more than we know, but I am always worried about how the behaviors will affect her long-term.

Wiserallthetime posted 1/3/2018 14:23 PM

xhz - My older two are in college; my youngest is mid-teens.

The long term affect is a worry; however, all three of my kids seem to be recognizing the disordered behaviors for what they are, for the most part, and I think that helps buffer the ill effects somewhat. They have also all been in IC for at least a few years a piece. The biggest thing the kids all seem to be recognizing is that xwh's only true interest is himself and what he wants, so it isn't personal to the kids, as he does this to everyone he encounters - sadly, there is also a recognition, then, that their best interests and/or happiness is not "what he wants"..... I do and always have had truly good male role models in the lives of my kids, so they have the contrast present which serves to highlight xwh's issues.

xhz700 posted 1/3/2018 15:29 PM

I am doing much the same things. I have several solid female role-models for my daughter, and I try to get her around them in positive ways as much as possible.

At the ages that they are at, I am guessing that they will be OK. Even at 13, my daughter sees the dysfunction for what it is.

I am sorry that you have to deal with this sort of instability. It's crazy-making!

hpv50 posted 1/6/2018 08:51 AM

I think that people are confused because the thread title is too general, acronyms are used without explanation, and only two personality disorders are mentioned in the thread’s cryptic first sentence.

I think we should ask the moderators to expand the introduction to this thread to reduce confusion. Using the acronym “BPD” can confuse people; some interpret it as Bipolar. Moreover, the thread is labeled “personality disorders,” yet the introduction only mentions two - borderline and narcissistic. There are ten personality disorders.

xyz states:

This thread was made at my request. It is for support for people dealing with spouses or partners with personality disorders (NPD, BPD, HPD, APD).

These are just the cluster b personality disorders; there are ten disorders in total, with three each in clusters a (Paranoid, Schizoid, Schizotypal) and b (Avoidant, Dependent, Obsessive-compulsive). I think the introduction should list them all out (sans acronyms), along with a brief sentence or two describing each one.

On the other hand, if the majority who responded to the initial request for a separate thread were really just interested in borderline and narcissistic personality disorders - which makes sense because the two have many comorbid characteristics - then perhaps the thread should be relabeled as such.

Also, I understand that the thread was initiated at your behest, xyz, but for it to survive over time, it needs to be expansive enough to incorporate sufficient reaponse, yet narrow enough so that people can actually support each other. If the thread requires repeated explanations about what it entails, then I doubt it will survive.

hpv50 posted 1/6/2018 10:13 AM

I’d also like to add that I agree with others that autism spectrum and adhd are not personality disorders, and hence require different support and focus. I have two family members with autism, one with adhd, and several with personality disorders - the issues and concerns are just not comparable.

It doesn’t meant that there aren’t issues that make the combination of infidelity and autism or infidelity and adhd difficult - just that they wouldn’t fit in the same sphere of support as personality disorders. If the thread is about too many things, then providing appropriate support is difficult.

hpv50 posted 1/6/2018 10:18 AM

ASoCalledLife,

I was going to send you a PM, but I see they’re disabled. I am sorry that another member went after you in what I consider to be an inappropriate fashion. I hope it doesn’t keep you away from this thread, should you want support for dealing with someone who has a personality disorder. PDs of all varieties can make you feel crazy by themselves, and after layering on the infidelity, can feel insurmountable at times.

xhz700 posted 1/6/2018 16:40 PM

Also, I understand that the thread was initiated at your behest, xyz, but for it to survive over time, it needs to be expansive enough to incorporate sufficient reaponse, yet narrow enough so that people can actually support each other. If the thread requires repeated explanations about what it entails, then I doubt it will survive

I couldn't agree more. My goal is to have this type of support, and I wouldn't want it to be too narrow.

WalkinOnEggshelz posted 1/6/2018 18:20 PM

It is for support for people dealing with spouses or partners with personality disorders (NPD, BPD, HPD, APD).

Please keep on topic and stick to these disorders only in this thread.

ASoCalledLife you have a pm.

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