SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Dday

It should have been obvious from the start. She (46 F) decided to meet up with an ex-boyfriend from before we met. She even told me about it. I (45 M) wasn't crazy about the idea, and told her as much, but she'd maintained friendships with a couple of exes before, and I've always been cool and mature about it - at the end of the day, she picked me, and I got on with them fine. And I'm never going to tell her who she can and can't see. She told me I had nothing to worry about. Ok then. They had a nice catch-up over lunch, and I never heard anything more about it. I trusted my wife. He's married with kids too anyway.

As time went on, like they say, "I just knew." After 22 years together, 15 years of marriage and two children (twins), I began to feel like something was off over the summer. You stay together with someone for that long, and you get to know all their little ways and means. Little things mostly - spending even more time than usual on her phone and looking very pleased with herself, disappearing too frequently to "make a phone call" or "just go for a walk", vague, defensive answers to innocent questions, seeming distracted and unresponsive to my affection sometimes.

One day I managed to get a look at her DMs. Expected to find a bunch of chats with one of her mum friends from school - I just needed proof that I was crazy. I still get flashbacks from what I found. Two months' worth of chatting, flirting, explicit sexting, talking about what they wanted to do to each other, what they did do to each other, where they went, how good it was, etc. etc. Pages and pages and pages. A blow-by-blow account of my wife's affair with another man.

Now I can line up all of the dates they met at a hotel or sexted with our own calendar. Meetings with "clients" in town. The first time they slept together, she came home from a "work lunch" and we watched a film together as if nothing had happened. She completely invented a work event out of town to spend the night with him. She brought him with us on holiday. Chatted with him while I played with my kids on the beach. She would come home from a night out with (real) friends and immediately run to the shower with her VB. Didn't mind that until I knew the context. One night I came to her in the hope of physical intimacy and was told, understandably, that she was tired and going straight to sleep. No problem, I said, another night then, and off I went to watch a film. Now I know what she was really doing. She was having sex with him in our bed. He wasn't there in person, but as good as. She didn't just violate the terms of our marriage, she violated the sanctity of our home, our family spaces.

Couldn't sleep the night of Dday. Eventually woke her up at 4am and gave her the explicit opportunity to tell me the truth. She lied some more, feigned ignorance. So I just had to tell her: I know absolutely everything.

The context

She did not, of course, fall to pieces and beg for forgiveness. She immediately defaulted to blaming me and the marriage. It's true, we had drifted apart. We started out as love's young dream, completely inseparable, absolutely made for each other. Best friends, confidantes, passionate lovers, partners in everything. Destined to grow old together. But life threw a lot of shit at us. Multiple rounds of IVF, several miscarriages, medical problems and procedures, big career setbacks, my many depressive episodes, financial shocks, Covid…

But we weathered the storms, I told myself. And we were gifted beautiful twin babies 9 years ago. Her career was taking off again just as mine was floundering, so I happily took on the role of housedad. It was the most challenging and rewarding thing I've ever done. But it took its toll. I've suffered depression most of my life, and the pressures of handling twins while seeing my personal dreams circle the bowl weighed heavy on me. My depressions got worse and longer and more frequent. Then Covid happened. I felt trapped, wasn't coping, started drinking by myself at night. It got worse. My dear WW just didn't really understand my depressions or seem to know how to help, or even show much interest in understanding. I felt like a burden. She wanted another child, but I couldn't even consider it. I was barely coping as it was, and she would just dismiss my reticence as dragging my feet.

And yet, there were two unplanned pregnancies after our twins were born. I did not handle it well, to my eternal regret. I would retreat into myself and become cold and incommunicative. Not because I wanted to, I just couldn't be any other way. My mind would short-circuit. I still kept one foot in front of the other, played my role as dad and husband. But I wasn't there emotionally. And when she lost those pregnancies, I didn't support her the way I should have. I was there, but not there. I want to blame it on the depression, but I have to take responsibility for that. It must have been unbearably painful for her, and I was a shitty husband not to see it. She didn't feel like she could talk to me, nor me her. So, slowly, we drifted.

I'm still struggling to build any sort of career, I earn literally half what my WW earns, and my social circle has dwindled to almost nothing. I don't do very much leisure-wise. All the things I used to do, that made me who I was, I don’t do anymore. I don't handle stress well, and I've turned into a very anxious, reclusive person. All of this my dear WW pointed out as contributing factors in the affair. So if my self-esteem was in the gutter before, now it's fully down the drain. But this year, after perhaps the worst depressive episode I've ever had, I decided I really had to do something. So I finally sought out psychotherapy. I wanted to commit to getting better, for me, for my wife, for my kids. After a couple of sessions, I was already feeling hopeful, and just having the goal of getting better was giving me motivation. I wanted to do more, be more, share more. This was it now, I had my foot on the first rung of the ladder.

It was during this time, just as I was beginning my journey towards wellness, that she began the affair.

Reading posts on SI about all the other WSs who weren't "having their needs met", how the AP was "giving her everything I wasn't", has been reassuring. You can bet I've beaten myself up over all the shortcomings my WW kindly pointed out after I merely observed that she had been f****** another man behind my back.

Now

I feel like I'll never be well again. I've never known mental and physical pain like I've experienced over the last month. I know firsthand what trauma is now. Couldn’t sleep, Couldn’t eat. Panic attacks. Crying all the time. Sometimes I feel like I'll never stop crying. I’m an absolute wreck. She has kicked away that ladder and set fire to it. How can I rebuild myself, my social circle, my career, when I panic just thinking about talking to another person, let alone the rest?

It's gotten gradually easier to bear. I’ve seen a MH nurse, been given counselling, was on diazepam, now on zopiclone. Might have to go back on SSRIs (but reluctant as the weight gain and loss of libido have their own effects on my wellbeing). I'm going through an endless cycle of the knot in my stomach gradually tightening until I'm able to talk about my feelings to her and it loosens a little. But this means I'm still dependent on her for this. I understand this is unhealthy. Unfortunately for me, she's still my greatest source of comfort, while remaining the very person that did this to me. I read up on Betrayal Trauma. I'm stuck in fight or flight mode because my source of safety is now the source of danger.

She’s still in the fog, it seems. She’s said sorry a million times, but I don’t know if she’s really shown that much remorse. A month out, after much feet-dragging, she’s finally agreed, in principle, to send a No Contact to him. And she’s agreed, in principle, to try to save our marriage, do MC, give us a chance. We’ve had some very tender moments, and finally being able to be honest with each other has been cathartic. But I don’t trust her, and I don’t feel we’re on the same page. I want to work on myself and our marriage because I want to grow old together. She’s still "figuring out what she wants" and what the future might look like for us if we have one.

I’m scared because I’ve built my entire life around her. Without her, I’m nothing. I understand the idea of the 180, but I don’t know how to rebuild my life, my social circle, my career, all from scratch, when merely talking with another person makes me panic. I’m undergoing psychotherapy, have a crisis counsellor on top. But whenever I think about the mountain I have to climb, I crumble. I don’t even know how to begin. How do I get my foot on the ladder again?

[This message edited by GuzmanLyrebird at 10:09 AM, Monday, October 19th]

I’m so sorry for you. Facing a trauma is hard enough but what you are facing makes it that much harder.

I can only say — stick with your therapy and course of action. You cannot solve or resolve all of these issues at once and I fear if you do, the weight of it all will become too much.

As a parent I applaud you for putting your kids & family first. That is what most betrayeds do initially. Protect the kids.

Second, acknowledging your prior missteps is ok but it’s not a reason to cheat. So while you may have had difficult periods within your marriage, there is no reason your wife should have cheated. That’s just her justification and telling herself whatever she needs to do she can ease her guilty conscience.

Third, I don’t think you should try to develop a new social circle and address life & kids & marriage issues all at once. But I think there are small things you can do for your social interactions that may not tax your brain or cause anxiety.

Join a gym class or yoga class or exercise group. I’m telling you this b/c you can have as much as as little social interaction as you want. I joined a gym and first few months I hardly said hi to anyone. A year later I have a regular group I work out with and it’s been fun. We joke around and work hard and it’s been great in reducing my stress level.

Pick something easy - it doesn’t have to be heavy weights or anything like that. It can be a running group or walking club - anything to get your body moving and take your mind off your situation (even if it’s 5 minutes).

Keep posting here - you will get great support.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 1:21 PM, Monday, October 19th]

Guzman,

I’m so sorry that you have found yourself here. I hope you’ll believe me when I say you will survive this. So many of us have.

First, I’m glad you’re taking care of yourself. Seeing a MH professional and getting that kind of help is great.

Second, you are not to blame for the affair. You may not have been a great husband. You can and should take your share of the blame for that. But nothing justifies infidelity. She had other choices. She could have, among other things, gotten a divorce. Or talked to you. Or gotten counseling. Sought couples counseling. Of the menu of choices available to her, she chose deception and betrayal. No one made her do that - nothing you did or didn’t do make that choice for her.

Everything your WW pointed out as a "contributing factor to the affair" is not. Those were contributing factors to a marriage in trouble. Take note of the difference.

Talk to your counselor about rebuilding your self-esteem, because it’s obvious that you’re struggling with that (as so many of us have).

I noticed this sentence:

All the things I used to do, that made me who I was, I don’t do anymore

and this one

Without her, I’m nothing.

Start rebuilding you one small step at a time. What were those things you used to do? Pick one of them and start doing it again. Fill your life. Those friends you used to have? Reach out to them, why not? You live in London, a massive city with everything. Look for some fun things to do, the options are infinite. Take your kids somewhere. You start by starting. Pick something to do, don’t agonize over which thing, and do it.

Your WW has not entirely ended her A. She’s reluctant to go NC. You need to talk to a lawyer to understand what a future without her looks like. I don’t know why so many people balk at this. Go get the information, you don’t have to do anything with it. There are quite a few posters on this site who’s Waywards "figured out what they wanted" right quick once their BPs told them they were divorcing. Think about that.

First off, I'm really sorry about what you're going through. My own Dday was in June, and I've felt a lot of what you're going through here. Especially the parts about rebuilding a life after your foundation has been rocked.

Let me tell you, you're still in the early days and you're doing great. You've gotten into counseling and are getting the medical support you need. Try to eat as well as possible, find time to walk/exercise and get rest when you need it. (I was subsisting on little more than protein shakes and scraps of food, and taking short daily naps at one month in.) Posting here will help a ton as you'll get a bunch of great insights and opinions from those who have been here before.

Absolutely none of your wife's piss poor decisions are your fault, and even though it's hard to avoid thinking about what you could've done differently in the before time, she cheated because she wanted to cheat. As a grown woman, she could've worked to close the perceived distance between you. Either by initiating conversations with you or by pursuing MC.

Going NC from her AP is absolutely critical. Don't let her drag her feet. Make it a hard boundary. As much as it sucks to say out loud, especially if you're not used to this type of confrontation, you have to be ready to leave her if she wants to continue contact.

Getting that foot back on the ladder is going to take some time. There's sadly no way to speedrun the healing. Keep working on yourself and you'll get there.

Hi Guzman,
Reading your post really hits home and I know that what you are going through is an awful experience that no human should have to suffer.
I think you are doing really well going to a MH nurse and I hope this is helping you a lot.

You will get lots of good advice on here and I hope you can see that there is a whole community who knows your pain and wants the absolute best for you.

I know that your WW has presented a number of "reasons" the affair happened. For me the number 1 reason was that she let it happen and then made 100s of decisions to continue the affair. I would really buy in to the school of thought that the affair was 100% her decision and not your fault. If she had taken all those "reasons" and decided to ask for a divorce that is one thing but having an affair is just wrong.

From my experience, the sooner you can get in to a habit of physical exercise I think the it will be really helpful for you. I found that even just targeting say 8-10,000 steps even 3 days a week really helped.

The other thing I wanted to say is that if this other person is still in your WWs life then there is almost nothing you can do to move forward with any sort of R. I would also add that from my experience (and this seems to be fairly normal) there is a good chance that your WW will not have been able to end the affair. I suspect your gut feeling told you something was going on and if it is still telling you there is something going on then it is a strong possibility.

Finally if the other party has a spouse you should tell them as soon as possible. This is only fair on them.

Thank you for your replies. You've all brought me to tears with your kindness.

@ Letmebefrank

What were those things you used to do?

I was a musician. There was a time it looked like it might go somewhere. As is all too common, it wasn't working out, then kids happened. I put it all to one side to be a dad and never picked it up again. Never really forgiven myself. It's hard seeing people you used to know going on to great things in the biz, or otherwise finding another "thing". I know I shouldn't compare my life to others, it's not healthy, but there you go.

@Soon2B
Your situation sounds especially sticky! I'm so sorry you're having to deal with all that mess on top of the betrayal. It sounds unbelievably stressful.

@chasingstars
I have been managing to keep up a little bit of gentle running, some light yoga. I'm sure it helps, though I can't say it feels like it at the moment. I just have to keep it up, I know.

Finally if the other party has a spouse you should tell them as soon as possible. This is only fair on them.

Honestly, I'm wrestling with this. On the one hand, I'm not sure I could find out who she is or get her contact details. The AP has an online presence (he is a musician - so it's doubly insulting!) so I could easily get hold of him, and I've thought about it, just to let him know the suffering he's put me through. But my WW has made it clear that contacting him or her is a red line as far as R goes. For now, I'm respecting that. (You'll probably all tell me I'm insane.)

But also, I genuinely wouldn't wish the pain I've suffered the last month on anybody, even the wife of the man who's ruined my life. I don't want to wield that power. It's not her fault, or their kids'. You may disagree, but I sometimes wish I never found out.

For now, my position is this: if my WW goes ahead with NC and commits to R, then I can begin to move on. If she really cannot, then, yes, there is no possibility for R, and I will talk to whomever I please...

But my WW has made it clear that contacting him or her is a red line as far as R goes. For now, I'm respecting that. (You'll probably all tell me I'm insane.)

Not telling you you’re insane, but I will tell you that this is a mistake.

The fact that she is telling you that you can’t talk to the OBS (other betrayed spouse) should be setting off claxons and flashing red lights.

She’s protecting him. That’s the point of that. Which means, if she is protecting him, then the A is not over. Besides, if she only wants to R on her terms, then you are toast. She ended your M with her affair. To stay married, she should be doing everything she can to salvage it. You set the boundaries for R, which you are offering her as an act of grace. If she doesn’t like it, then your R was doomed anyway.

Telling the OBS is the right thing to do morally. She deserves to know that her marriage is a sham. But for your purposes, one of the most effective tools for ending affairs is exposure. You tell OBS, and AP ends the A with your WW to try to save his marriage. Very, very frequent pattern seen here.

You should also consider telling her parents what she’s done.

You guys both should be getting tested for STDs by the way.

Sorry you had to find us, but it helps to have people who have walked this path to talk to.

We recommend you tell the OBS (other betrayed spouse) for a couple of reasons. 1) To give the OBS the truth about her marriage and the agency to make her own decisions. Wouldn’t you want to know if positions were reversed? 2) to protect her health. Who knows how many people the AP has slept with and what diseases may be being passed around. Some are deadly. 3) It helps to have someone else with eyes on the A. He may be so busy trying to save his M that he drops your WS like a hot potato. The internet is a wonderful place and you can find her and send a certified letter. Do not tell your WS when you do this. If she finds out, then you know that she is still in contact with the AP.

Get STD/STI testing immediately and your WS must do the same. And have her SHOW you the results before you have unprotected sex with her. Don’t be embarrassed - doctors have seen and heard it all, and it can save your life. How she reacts to getting tested will also tell you a lot about her commitment to R.

Read about the difference between regret and remorse - there’s a great post in the JFO forum on this topic but you may have to page back a few to find it. Look for the posts with bullseyes on them. Great stuff. She is NOT showing any remorse. Remorse is thinking about you. Regret is lamenting herself and her pain. She is still protecting the AP by asking you not to contact the OBS, so she is thinking about him and herself, not you.

Take care of yourself. Eat healthfully, get daily exercise of some sort, get enough sleep, and find outlets for your emotions. Avoid alcohol/drugs and drink extra water. Crying is dehydrating. This helps the body, the mind, and your emotions. Focus on you and your kids. Glad you saw a doctor and are seeking help. Take up old hobbies like your music.

Read about hysterical bonding. It will help explain the deep connections you are feeling and the strong sex drive. Fun while it lasts, but get the STD testing done.

Are you in IC? Is your WS getting IC? If there is ANY chance of R, she needs to dig deep deep deep to understand why she risked her marriage and family for a fling with a married man. This takes time and hard work, and cannot be done quickly. If she is unwilling to do this work, it’s hard to see how you can ever feel safe around her.

And lastly, do not accept responsibility for this. All marriages have ups and downs. No partner is perfect. If she truly was so unhappy (and I doubt she was), there are MANY options including MC, hard conversations, separation and even divorce. But she chose the nuclear one. You each own 50% of the marriage issues, but the infidelity is 100% on her. And SHE needs to be the one who drives the R bus. Right now she is protecting the AP. Right now she is not R material. Maybe she will change, but don’t wait for her. Start your healing. Start focusing on you and the kids.

Visit a couple lawyers to educate yourself on what D might look like. Knowledge is power and removing the fear of the unknown will help a lot. Don’t tell her - just see them.

So sorry you are here, but keep posting and

Dear Friend,

I know your pain and sorrow. Many hear relate and empathize with you. Absolutely great advice above.

One thing I want to encourage is to consider telling a loved family member you trust, such as Mom or Dad or sibling. You absolutely need the support. If you really feel that would not be good, make sure you are seeing a Betrayal Trauma Specialist, and post here often. Folks here will support you.

You will rise from this stronger. You will escape co-dependence and will learn your value. I really want to tell you that what helped me survive was seeking God like never before. He knows and cares about you. He can comfort like no other. Read and pray through Psalms slowly asking for Him to speak to your heart.

Finally, here is a list I have written as to why telling OBS is beneficial.

1) Notifying the other betrayed spouse is an intentional action where you are taking back a form of agency.

2) It demonstrates you are not predictable and controllable person. During the affair, your were essentially controlled through lies and deceit and manipulation. This is the first action that shows that game is over.

3) It helps to remove the cheaters ability to control narrative.

4) Related to #3, this allows you and other betrayed wife to strategize and compare notes. It allows the other wife time to process with a person who is going through same thing. It actually helps her too.

5) This ABSOLUTELY will help your mental state and confidence. It will register with your nervous system as a small step of action. It registers in your body as holding yoursefl as valuable....and that this disrespect will not go unanswered.

6) It will show the wife and AP that you are not one to walked all over and treated like a door mat. You will respond.

7) It shows your wife you are a man of value. You are not her toy. She cannot control you. This will breed respect even if she complains and throws a tantrum.

Hang in there Bud.

I relate to quite a lot of your situation. MH issues, depression, and a long marriage. For me, we were married almost 27 years at the time of my wife's affair.

My wife also dragged her heels about going no contact and kept a line of communication open with her AP. She stopped the physical part of the affair on d day, but continued talking to him over messenger and voice chat, insisting they were "just friends" now.

I put up with about a month of that until I got into her messages and discovered just how deep emotionally she was getting with this guy. That was my breaking point. I started phoning divorce lawyers and set up some consultations right in front of her. I told her if she wanted him, she could have him, but not while remaining married to me.

I meant it. I didn't really want a divorce, but I wanted out of infidelity, and to me, a divorce was the least bad option. The other option would have been sharing my wife, at least emotionally, with another man. That was intolerable to me. So I set my resolve and began my journey out of infidelity.

I can't say what your wife might do, but mine broke down in front of me, and begged me to not go through with it. She dropped her AP like a hot potato, went full NC, blocked him on everything, put in for a location transfer at work (he was a co worker), then rolled her sleeves up and began the arduous task of convincing me we had something left to salvage.

That was a year and a half ago, and she's still doing everything she can to rebuild our marriage. There have been a few stumbles along the way, but she's been rock solid on that goal ever since that day. I can't say were yet reconciled, but we are reconciling.

Until I made those calls she was more or less running the show. That changed the entire dynamic. The pick me dance was getting me nowhere. It almost never does. I took my agency back and she realized I meant it. She completely changed her attitude.

Like I said, I don't know what your wife might do if you follow a similar tack, but I do believe that until something changes, nothing will change. You have to decide you want to get out of infidelity, no matter the cost. I was not willing to remain married no matter the cost. I could not fathom sharing my wife with someone else. I'd rather be divorced.

I had a troubled marriage, and I contributed to those troubles, no doubt. but not everything was my fault. Marriage is a 2 way street. Nothing I did or didn't do made my wife have an affair. That decision was hers and hers alone. I wasn't even given a chance. I didn't consent to it, and had no clue there was even another man. There is never, ever a good reason or justification for lying, sneaking around, deception, secrets, or cheating. This is not your fault.

I had spent years in depression and on SSRIs. I was taking the max daily dose of sertraline and all it did was kill my libido and make me emotionally blunted. I weaned off of those a few years ago and was coming back to more myself when my wife got us tangled up in this mess. I've since discovered some things that tell me those types of drugs were the wrong treatment for me, but that discovery didn't come until after years of living dysfunctionally.

I know I wasn't easy to live with, but nothing I did contributed to her decisions to have an affair. She acknowledges that now. I want you to come to that realization also. There may have been plenty of reasons to work on your marriage and have some serious talks, but there isn't a single reason for her to have cheated on you. None.

I don't know how this is going to turn out for you yet, but you have found a good group of folks who've been through this and understand the pain and devastation you're experiencing. It will get better for you, but it's going to take time. A month out is still very early days so the emotions and this gut wrenching roller coaster you're on is very normal at this stage. I didn't feel like I really had my feet back under me for at least 6 months. It can take 2 to 5 years to really recover from the trauma, so don't beat yourself up for being where you are at only a month out.

ETA: I agree that contacting the OBS is the right thing to do for all of the reasons listed above. If that's your wife's red line, then she isn't reconciliation material. She's choosing to protect him over you. Ask yourself if you want to remain in a marriage where your spouse is choosing someone else over you? Ask yourself if you would want to know, or would you want to remain blissfully unaware while your wife continued to conduct an affair right under your nose?

I think we can all agree that her AP's wife will be hurt, of course, but I guarantee you she would want to know. You're not the one hurting her. Her husband and your wife already did that. You're the one who has the power to give her agency back and allow her to make an informed decision.

[This message edited by Pogre at 5:47 PM, Monday, October 19th]

First, her decision to have an affair is not your fault. She made an adult decision to violate the marriage. If she was so unhappy then the adult thing to do is to have a conversation with your spouse and express your unhappiness. Then the two of you can hopefully come up with a solution and if you cannot, then the marriage ends.

But cheaters do not want to go down this path because it is difficult, so they choose to cheat. They want the Safety and Security of the marriage and the fun of an affair. Well that's just not how life works. Pick one

As long as your wife knows you are there waiting on her to make a decision, she has little motivation to stop what she's doing. The 180 is incredibly difficult but the moment you turn around and take that first step in the opposite direction your life changes for the better. Yes it is scary because a possible outcome is she walks in the opposite direction and if so then you finally know where you stand and from there you can start making decisions that are in your best interest

For the sake of argument, let's say you were the epitome of what a bad husband is. At what point did your wife lose the ability to tell you she's unhappy and she doesn't want to stay in a relationship and she's leaving? The answer is, she never did. She just didn't want to handle the situation like a committed partner should because cheating is easier

You cannot fix her, you cannot fix the relationship, you can only work on improving yourself. You have recognized what you consider your shortcomings and you are taking steps to address them. Great, awesome.

I can understand the lack of having your own Social Circle, because I was the same. I was content with my social life revolving around her and in retrospect that was a big mistake. The best thing I did for myself was download an app called Meetup. You enter your interests, your hobbies, your passions, and meet up will find people in your area who share the same interests. I found a group that plays sand volleyball. I hadn't played in years but I needed something

I told my wife "I found a group of people that plays sand volleyball on Tuesdays and I am going to play. You cannot be there. This is for me. You have a Social Circle, mine revolved around you and that is not healthy for me."

My wife didn't say anything but I could tell if she wasn't comfortable with the idea of me socializing without her, and honestly I didn't care. The first time I went it was awkward but after a couple of hours you couldn't wipe the smile off my face. I was 53 years old. I had so much fun. I was sore for 3 Days afterwards but so worth it

Please stop waiting for your wife to decide your future, take steps to make your future what you want, what you need. We all understand it is incredibly scary because our lives revolve around our spouses and suddenly we find out everything we thought was safe and secure and real, isn't.

Were you to ask any of our family and friends if they could see my wife doing what she did the resounding answer would be hell no, you are crazy for even thinking like that, she could never do something like that. I was in that group and we were all wrong. Suddenly I am looking at the person I married over 20 years ago and wondering who the hell is she

When I confronted my wife she just sat there with her arms folded. At first she tried dismissal, she said we flirt, I have not crossed any lines, you are giving this way too much weight. When that didn't work she switched to anger. She said that I was always angry and I was always yelling, and none of that is true, but it was her way of trying to make me feel like it was my fault that she had an affair

Then she said What secrets do you have that I don't know about and I replied with "nothing, you know everything about me. You know my fears, desires, fantasies, goals, dreams, ambitions, you know everything about me"

I was a babbling train wreck and she just sat there with her arms folded, shooting daggers at me with her eyes. The best I got was I'm sorry this upsets you, that was the closest she came to apologizing but she said it with zero empathy and her voice. After an hour-long conversation I said well I guess there's nothing else to talk about

I was awake for 44 hours straight before I finally passed out. The next morning she will still mad, zero remorse. When she came home from work that afternoon I said I need time to think and I cannot do that bumping into you and I will not spend all weekend staring at the ground. There is a suitcase upstairs, I cannot make you leave, but I need you to leave, so please leave

She stared at me for a few seconds, walked upstairs, packed a bag, walked downstairs and said something to our two older boys, walked into the kitchen and said I'm leaving, I said okay, and she walked out. Honestly it was one of the hardest things I ever had to do in my life. Because she didn't even try to argue with me I was convinced she and this guy had an Exit Plan in motion and I just happened to stumble into it

That was about 3:00 on a Friday afternoon. Saturday afternoon I sent her a rather scathing text, the details of which I will not go into, but never once did I call her something derogatory. I told her I do not want to respond, when I wanted to discuss the next steps I would reach out to her. Later that day I said we will meet tomorrow afternoon 3:00 p.m. and I chose a place where we were not isolated because I didn't want to give her the opportunity to accuse me of domestic violence and in the state I live in all it takes is for a woman to accuse a man and the police will come to the front door and tell him he has to surrender his firearms and immediately leave the house. Then the man has to wait to appear before a judge and convince the judge that he is not a threat. Meanwhile she is at home and he is living somewhere else and if her claim is proven fake there are no repercussions, but his life is trashed for a while

When she walked up to me Sunday afternoon she looked like a zombie. Finally I could see what appeared to be remorse and regret.

I would love to say that at that moment I was back to feeling strong and confident, but I wasn't, I was still a Trainwreck inside. I didn't get my proverbial balls back for several months. Asking her to pack a bag and leave was my first step towards my own 180. It was terrifying but it had to be done

Your ability to think straight right now is severely compromised and that is understandable and to be expected. It will get easier in time and I know it's easy for me to say that but I was where you are, all of us have been. We understand

The sooner you can do your own 180 the sooner you will start down the path of healing yourself.

You have found an incredible place for advice and support. I wish I had found it sooner. Post as often as you need to

Just a PSA.

You can’t be friend with an ex. You can be friendly towards an ex, but no friend.

Friendship with a potential partner is only achievable with a lot of iron boundaries.

Once those boundaries were crossed into intimacy there is no going back.

You crossed those boundaries with your exes.

There is no coming back, you can be polite, you can be "friendly" but you can’t ever have a detached friendship with that person again.

It’s hot water discovery, but when you eat "is my ex and we’re just friend", it ain’t.

That’s called an option, fallback guy/girl, warmed up soup.

Anything, but is not just friends.

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 7:37 PM, Monday, October 19th]

I won't write a novel since many of the posters prior have hit all the major spots. They also supported you and let you know you deserve to be valued and deserve better. All these things are true and what I am about to say does not disregard them.

Not setting clear boundaries one of which is letting OBS know is pretty much the death of R. Allowing someone in an affair fog to stay in the fog and dictate terms means you have ZERO chance of any true reconciliation.

If you alerting the OBS and demanding real accountability is a deal breaker than the marriage was already DOA.

[This message edited by TheGhost at 7:44 PM, Monday, October 19th]

Remember: d-day is a trauma that can be exacerbated by the WS's post-d-day behavior - like a threat to keep you from informing OBS.

But the important part is that being betrayed is traumatic. One result is that you can go into shock. Figure 3-6 months to get through the shock. Being totally messed up 2 months out is par for the course.

I say this in the hope you see this as a stage you have to pass through. It's unavoidable - it goes with trauma. But you WILL pass through it. You can heal. You can have a good life, whatever the outcome of your M.

I, too, think one major focus you should adopt id finding yourself. You may have focused your life on your W up to now, but you can change. You're loving, lovable, and capable, and you're a full-fledged member of the human race, even though you may not realize that yet.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 8:23 PM, Monday, October 19th]

Everyone has given you great, actionable advice.

1. Near term priority. Find and inform OBS. Regardless of the threats. She has no right to demand anything of you right now. None. Don’t even let on that you’re going to do it or did it. When she comes at you pissed off, you’ll know no contact was never a thing.

2. Medium and long term priority. Get yourself into IC and work on your co-dependency. It will ruin your life, even in a great relationship.