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 Elliebellie (original poster member #84918) posted at 9:25 PM on Friday, June 14th, 2024

Just from what I’m hearing, it sounds like your therapist is more concerned about extracting money from you than really getting into it and risking you not coming back.
It sounds like they are giving you excuses and you’re actually having to fight back with them to take responsibility? That’s no therapist at all.

It’s a big problem in the counseling community. So many of them are so worthless, really for anything. Mostly due to the absurdly low bar for getting into the industry.
A counselor should be challenging you. They should be pressing you to dig deeper into why things are the way they are for you.

It’s a rare thing to get hooked up with a good one on the first try. Most go through initial appointments with 3 or 4 before they hit a good one.

She's only $15 a session but I do need to switch I think. She challenges me on some stuff (she did open my eyes that cosleeping with my kids was a way to keep my husband at arms length and unable to be intimate with me 😬). I think she's good on the non affair stuff so either I don’t talk to her about or I find someone else.

posts: 174   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2024   ·   location: New England
id 8839783
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 Elliebellie (original poster member #84918) posted at 9:29 PM on Friday, June 14th, 2024

Building character is an all-or-nothing game. You can't just pick and choose options from the character buffet. You are either all in on being a person of good character, or you're still a liar and a cheater.

Edited to add: But you can change. You can improve yourself and make better choices. But it has to be all the way, not half in and half out.

Thank you. This makes sense. I'm so blinded by having an affair that I'm not seeing that it really is secondary to what is really going on with me and how it actually probably makes sense I would be rhe kind of person. Maybe my husband was just waiting for this to happen and that's why he's not blind with rage? That's fucking sad.

posts: 174   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2024   ·   location: New England
id 8839784
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hikingout ( member #59504) posted at 9:44 PM on Friday, June 14th, 2024

My therapist won't let me take the blame for his behavior, which I get. To a point. But I told her, come on, how would you be if your spouse didn't have sex with you, barely communicated with you, and you had NO IDEA what was going on in her head. Like, yeah, when it spills over to the kids that's a problem, but ffs I'm totally complicit!

Well I do agree on the points that you aren’t responsible for his choice to stay, or how he chooses to behave with the kids. People really shouldn’t be one way when things are good and then another when they are bad. Why should really happen is they should take responsibility for their own happiness.

So she is right. But I think we do have to take some responsibility for our part of a relationship, and I think that in a marital relationship each has a lot of influence on how the other feels.

So I can see a little bit here. I don’t think that either of us would choose to stay married without intimacy unless there was a health problem. Intimacy does change as you age and what that might mean sometimes is naked holding/touching, but I think we both want a lover as long as that’s possible. It’s a reasonable thing to expect in a marriage. And being starved for touch is a painful thing to live through.

It’s amazing that his therapy hasn’t pushed him to make a stand. I assume he values family over self.

7 years of hard work - WS and BS - Reconciled

posts: 7319   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2017   ·   location: Arizona
id 8839786
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OhItsYou ( member #84125) posted at 9:49 PM on Friday, June 14th, 2024

By what I have read from you, I can say with a high degree of certainty that he knew this was coming sooner or later.
The person I was 25 years ago would probably be something similar to how your husband is today.
Codependency is a bitch. It clouds reality and retards growth and change.
"Co-dependent no more" get that book and memorize it. Maybe both of you.

And 15$ a session? Co-pay?
I don’t know of any therapist that’s worth a shit who doesn’t bill someone or someplace $150/hr

posts: 134   ·   registered: Nov. 10th, 2023   ·   location: Texas
id 8839788
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 Elliebellie (original poster member #84918) posted at 9:52 PM on Friday, June 14th, 2024

It’s amazing that his therapy hasn’t pushed him to make a stand. I assume he values family over self.

He's not crazy about him so idk what is going on there. I asked him if he told him to divorce me (of course he wouldn't, but you know, bring it up as a question) and he said "god no". Maybe we both have ineffective therapists.

posts: 174   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2024   ·   location: New England
id 8839789
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 Elliebellie (original poster member #84918) posted at 9:55 PM on Friday, June 14th, 2024

By what I have read from you, I can say with a high degree of certainty that he knew this was coming sooner or later.
The person I was 25 years ago would probably be something similar to how your husband is today.
Codependency is a bitch. It clouds reality and retards growth and change.
"Co-dependent no more" get that book and memorize it. Maybe both of you.

Thanks I'll look into it. I'd say both of us should be reading the same material?

And 15$ a session? Co-pay?
I don’t know of any therapist that’s worth a shit who doesn’t bill someone or someplace $150/hr

Yeah, sorry, copay. Ik she still makes money but it's not breaking the bank.

posts: 174   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2024   ·   location: New England
id 8839790
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OhItsYou ( member #84125) posted at 10:20 PM on Friday, June 14th, 2024

Sure you can both read the same material. You’re both either in this together or not.
There’s a lot of couples here who were in your similar situation who both had copies of whatever respective books and would read on their own times and discuss it together later.
If you’re both codependent, why wouldn’t both of you read it? Couldn’t you both at the same time make strides out of codependency? Could that also bring you closer together, doing that together? I don’t know, I would think that intelligent people could do exactly that.

Another one that really is specifically for you though, "how to help your spouse heal from your affair" is the GO TO manual. It’s not a long book, but it is the gold standard.
Would I say your husband should read it too? Absolutely. He should know what the bare minimum he should expect from you is and it will give him some much needed insight and I think help him understand what he’s feeling.

posts: 134   ·   registered: Nov. 10th, 2023   ·   location: Texas
id 8839792
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 Elliebellie (original poster member #84918) posted at 10:25 PM on Friday, June 14th, 2024

This man was lonely and instead of looking for someone available he chose you.

Very lonely 😥

He isn’t married but this was broken behavior probably brought on by the amount of trauma he has gone through in life.

Exactly. This poor man. Do you see why it's hard for me to hate him or think he's a pos or responsible for possibly breaking up my family? Both of us are broken but I suspect he's the less so of the 2 of us.

posts: 174   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2024   ·   location: New England
id 8839793
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 Elliebellie (original poster member #84918) posted at 10:29 PM on Friday, June 14th, 2024

Sure you can both read the same material. You’re both either in this together or not.
There’s a lot of couples here who were in your similar situation who both had copies of whatever respective books and would read on their own times and discuss it together later.
If you’re both codependent, why wouldn’t both of you read it? Couldn’t you both at the same time make strides out of codependency? Could that also bring you closer together, doing that together? I don’t know, I would think that intelligent people could do exactly that.

I only said that bc it sounded like you added my husband reading it was an afterthought.

Another one that really is specifically for you though, "how to help your spouse heal from your affair" is the GO TO manual. It’s not a long book, but it is the gold standard.
Would I say your husband should read it too? Absolutely. He should know what the bare minimum he should expect from you is and it will give him some much needed insight and I think help him understand what he’s feeling.

Thank you. Yes I saw that one, too. I've read something like that on here. Is that the one you mean?

posts: 174   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2024   ·   location: New England
id 8839794
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OhItsYou ( member #84125) posted at 10:43 PM on Friday, June 14th, 2024

Yes the link to it is in the healing library. It’s only just a little over 100 pages, so a short read.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard someone say they did exactly what the book said to do and everything got worse. I have heard countless times that things got better.

posts: 134   ·   registered: Nov. 10th, 2023   ·   location: Texas
id 8839796
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 Elliebellie (original poster member #84918) posted at 10:54 PM on Friday, June 14th, 2024

That's another one woth the same title by Janet Bloom, also (not here).

posts: 174   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2024   ·   location: New England
id 8839797
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InkHulk ( member #80400) posted at 11:38 PM on Friday, June 14th, 2024

That's another one woth the same title by Janet Bloom, also (not here).

That is a knock off imposter, don’t get it.

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 2190   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8839800
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hikingout ( member #59504) posted at 11:41 PM on Friday, June 14th, 2024

Exactly. This poor man. Do you see why it's hard for me to hate him or think he's a pos or responsible for possibly breaking up my family? Both of us are broken but I suspect he's the less so of the 2 of us.

Maybe you should go back and reread my post. If this is what you got from it, maybe I didn’t write it well enough.

Sure, I get the element you believe you care about him and that you don’t want to hurt him. To a certain extent anyway, I get where you are early in trying to figure this out that would be the misguided way you are looking at him.

But, no that’s not really what I am saying. He did this to himself. Just like he chose the first wife and the woman he lived with for ten years. Like draws in like. Just like you both were emotionally unavailable and living out this escapism type thing.

But I don’t see all pain as bad if it precipitates growth. This affair was inevitably going to end. When he gets through the next short while maybe it will inspire him to look at him self to deal with his baggage and to not get involved with a married woman ever again.

Pain is often brought in our lives to tell us there is something wrong and we need to fix it. Escaping from it is just delaying the inevitable.

He will be fine without you. You will be fine without him. You will see. Right now some of this is still flattering you, that he is heart broken and that feeds that validation thing that took you to the affair in he first place.

You need to think about he is gone, off the table, and so you have to start thinking about how you can move forward. You both have lessons to learn from this and equal responsibility in doing this to yourselves. What you are talking about is really just having a mother codependent relationship with him.

It’s normal to feel bad at first, but you have to work yourself out of that. Because right now you have enough to deal with. This man will move on and be fine or he won’t, but that too his his choice just like ducking someone else’s wife behind his back after that man gave him a place to live. Do you see how shitty that is? Probably not yet, but you will.

Your loyalty now is to yourself, your husband and your family. Don’t give this dude one more ounce of hope. The sooner you stop am that the sooner he can heal. And the sooner you too can really focus on what you need to do here too. Keep choosing the next right thing, and keep doing that over and over and you will see yourself grow from that. You will see it feels so much better, it will give you hope.

You are a drug addict withdrawing from a drug here, Ellie. Quite literally. If you had a gambling addiction or a shopping addiction, the withdrawal would be just as real. I chose to say those because those too are addictions where your body gets dependent on the highs and lows of that. Don’t keep throwing the dice.

[This message edited by hikingout at 11:43 PM, Friday, June 14th]

7 years of hard work - WS and BS - Reconciled

posts: 7319   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2017   ·   location: Arizona
id 8839801
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InkHulk ( member #80400) posted at 11:44 PM on Friday, June 14th, 2024

Exactly. This poor man. Do you see why it's hard for me to hate him or think he's a pos or responsible for possibly breaking up my family? Both of us are broken but I suspect he's the less so of the 2 of us.

HikingOut already responded to this calmly and rationally. My first reaction to this was anything but calm and rational. I have a visceral reaction to this weeping over the ap, and I’m two years out.

Ellie, if you want a shot at R, you need to block him and start doing the exercises hikingout outlined to kill this limerance. Your husband will not accept either.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 12:07 AM, Saturday, June 15th]

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 2190   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8839802
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 Elliebellie (original poster member #84918) posted at 1:28 AM on Saturday, June 15th, 2024

I guess I feel like if I'm so terrible why am I still being allowed to be a wife and mother and encouraged to work it out with my husband kwim? Like why aren't i being banished from ever seeing them again if I'm so terrible? I did all the same shit ap did.

posts: 174   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2024   ·   location: New England
id 8839807
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 Elliebellie (original poster member #84918) posted at 1:40 AM on Saturday, June 15th, 2024

It’s normal to feel bad at first, but you have to work yourself out of that. Because right now you have enough to deal with. This man will move on and be fine or he won’t, but that too his his choice just like ducking someone else’s wife behind his back after that man gave him a place to live. Do you see how shitty that is? Probably not yet, but you will.

I only dealt with him. I was the landlady and he only exchanged money with me so I'm sure he compartmentalized that in his head.

I feel bad bc he never would've started this affair on his own. If he did I bet I wouldn't have even gone there bc it was all about the conquest for me. I feel bad bc he was lonely and really hoped I'd leave. I feel bad for giving him hope. It just seems like human nature to care about someone even if they did the wrong thing, bc I also did the wrong thing and I'm being given a second chance.

[This message edited by Elliebellie at 1:41 AM, Saturday, June 15th]

posts: 174   ·   registered: Jun. 7th, 2024   ·   location: New England
id 8839809
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hikingout ( member #59504) posted at 1:42 AM on Saturday, June 15th, 2024

I guess I feel like if I'm so terrible why am I still being allowed to be a wife and mother and encouraged to work it out with my husband kwim? Like why aren't i being banished from ever seeing them again if I'm so terrible? I did all the same shit ap did.

It is hard to face that you are as bad as he is. But the reason you get to be a mom and wife is because you already were one, and if you work on yourself you could be a better one.

Let me poke at something you said earlier today. It was something like "he saw a good mom and wife and a husband who didn’t treat them like he should.

Don’t you think that’s misrepresentation?

He saw what you wanted him to see. You think he lost something here, and I am not trying to be mean but let’s look at what happens when you don’t work on yourself and you just run Willy nilly through life, and then you are sick of him too? Repulsed. Having another affair or forcing him into a lifestyle he doesn’t want to be in.

Have you asked him for polyamory too?

You honesty think you are giving him a gift? And three kids to feed that he didn’t make, and dealing with your ex husband all the time for the rest of his life?

You think that is better than leaving him alone?

[This message edited by hikingout at 1:44 AM, Saturday, June 15th]

7 years of hard work - WS and BS - Reconciled

posts: 7319   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2017   ·   location: Arizona
id 8839810
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wookiegirl ( member #16284) posted at 1:44 AM on Saturday, June 15th, 2024

You’re blessed with the gift your BH is giving you to rebuild your life with your family. AP doesn’t have a spouse and no one is taking his children.
By blocking him you’re protecting the gift your BH is giving you. Blocking him isn’t punishing him. It’s protecting the people you love.

"I found out that the things that hurt us the most can become the fuel and the catalyst that propel us toward our destiny. It will either make you bitter or it will make you better."-- T.D. Jakes

posts: 2126   ·   registered: Sep. 20th, 2007   ·   location: The Magic Mirror
id 8839811
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hikingout ( member #59504) posted at 1:45 AM on Saturday, June 15th, 2024

You also take big hits for yourself without sounding emotional but just them you sounded more emotional for him than yourself.

Think about that.

7 years of hard work - WS and BS - Reconciled

posts: 7319   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2017   ·   location: Arizona
id 8839812
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InkHulk ( member #80400) posted at 1:57 AM on Saturday, June 15th, 2024

I guess I feel like if I'm so terrible why am I still being allowed to be a wife and mother and encouraged to work it out with my husband kwim? Like why aren't i being banished from ever seeing them again if I'm so terrible? I did all the same shit ap did.

This statement reflects that you identify with AP 100 times more than you do your husband. You have all this concern for a dirtbag, and your husband is an after thought.

Think about that.

People are more important than the relationships they are in.

posts: 2190   ·   registered: Jun. 28th, 2022
id 8839813
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