SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I was here before - back closer to my original DDay (well, DDay #1, anyway - 12/1/21) and I left because of...well, my own shortcomings. My WH had started using this site as an attack point against me - it was a cult, brainwashing me, etc. For those fellow lurkers still 'lurking' (since I requested my account be deleted but never really 'left') trust me when I say that when they tell you not to show this site to your WP right away? There's a reason. I thought my WH was an exception, too. That WE would be an exception. He's not. We're not. TRULY remorseful Waywards are a VERY RARE breed. Please listen when I say - for your own sake - that you need to look out for you the way you wish your Wayward had. 🙏

Easier said than done, and it's hard to take your own advice. Probably why I'm camped out on my living room couch now.

I was here before, on my couch; for a few months, in fact. In a two bedroom trailer that we share with DD(13), sleeping separately means someone sleeps on the couch - and, with WH being disabled (and, y'know, me actually unable to turn off my conscience...unlike him) I took the couch.

It wasn't a full 180, not really - but by that point, at a year past DDay and already having experienced abuse on top of the trauma of discovering the A, I just couldn't stand sleeping next to him at night.

Didn't stop me from spending most of my free time (when DD was asleep) with him, though. I suspect I'm severely co-dependent, but since I'm the sole earner of the household and I can't afford therapy for all 3 of us (WH and DD are currently in IC) I have no professional assessment of that. Does telling WH in the beginning days after DDay 1 that we didn’t need to look at codependent literature because I wasn't worried about that and didn’t care if we were codependent or not count? (Yes, I said this. Out loud. 🤦‍♀️)

I started to detach, though - slowly (very slowly) but surely. WH was kind enough to make it easier on me, though. How long can you stay in love with someone who, even now - 2+ years after DDay 1 - still gets angry and defensive to the point of emotional and verbal abuse? I still have NO TIMELINE - best he's been able to do is break it down to year and season. WH has sent that when he gets mad when I bring up I still don't have a full timeline, but so far I've refused to read it - told him that I deserved better than just the year and season, especially since I discovered the A by AP messaging him and KNOWING that he had deleted messages. I knew because I'd read their Facebook messages years before. All gone. Never heard about AP again - not because WH had stopped talking to her, but because he was doing it secretly. He needed a friend; most people don't believe in EAs, anyway, and any reputable therapist doesn't either! All things he's said when he's angry / upset, that of course he didn’t mean. So when WH says he 'hasn't denied it was an A in a long time' it's true - those times when he's defensive aren't supposed to count. He was upset! Emotionally disregulated! That's not how he REALLY feels! 🙄

WH was upset when he told me I was 'just like every other whore.' WH was upset when he tried to throw me out of the house (that, because of the financial situation, is in my name.) WH was upset when he told me I would never be a real parent. (Our DD is from his first marriage; I've never had any biological children, but WH's XW hasnt talked to DD since she was 5 or 6.) WH was upset when he told me that he and DD are the only people who've ever even loved me.

It's almost funny, typing it up, when I look at my list and compare that to the memory of WH confronting me about 5mo post DDay 1 that I was becoming abusive because I was constantly calling him an idiot.

Of course, nothing upsets WH more than me bringing these things up still. The insults, or WH's past with AP. I guess because he was upset, the insults shouldn't count. Or because he apologized once I'm not allowed to speak of the insults again? Of couse, when I say 'apologized once', I mean that about the insults. WH has apologized for the A and said it's his fault multiple times. WH saying 'I just needed a friend' shouldn't negate that because he was upset and didn’t mean it.

Please note the sarcasm here.

I can see, looking back, that WH became very good at emotionally manipulating me into playing the KISA to him. In my OWN defense though, I don’t think it's just the emotional abuse I've obviously dealt with that's the only problem here as I try to navigate my own reality.

Not long after DDay, WH - from the trauma of DDay - remebered long-ago repressed memories of CSA.

Navigating that with empathy I think is at least, in part, why I keep putting myself here. Why I keep giving WH a chance when everything sane in me says to not. How can I not empathize when WH, like me, had a traumatic childhood? (Including CSA.) I was lucky to have a Grandma that fought for custody of me; that took me to therapy to get help. I lived for three years as a shut-in, only leaving the house once a month (if that) to go get groceries - and even that I couldn't handle alone. I get struggling with trauma for a long period of time.

But how much grace am I supposed to give WH's past traumas that, while fresh from being previously repressed, keeps causing me to get re-traumatized in the process?

For the past 2 - 3mo I've been slowly giving WH a chance; moved back into the bedroom and have been trying to be vulnerable again by showing my hidden-away emotions. My hurt. My anger. He's been watching videos on YouTube about CSA and coping mechanisms to handle triggers, emotionally disregulating, etc. (Not to mention the IC.)

I had a really bad day at work today, and I came home upset. I've told WH in the past that since the A, having a bad day at work, if I get angry, just eventually leads to me feeling angry at him. I feel angry because I married WH before I finished college, and he had become disabled before we even married. I had no chances to intern; I didn’t even enter my field until about 5yrs ago, because WH couldn't work, doesn’t drive, and contributes no income of any kind. I resent that while I was struggling to hold up the entire family in a 1 bedroom RV, not working on my career but just doing what I could to keep us afloat financially, he was constantly bitching at me about the small size of the RV, how our DD deserved better - all the while crying and moaning to AP about how hard it was for him and DD. That while I was willing to sacrifice myself, my youth and my future for a family (that, ultimately, I took on because I loved him) I never would've sacrificed myself for someone who I knew didn’t love me and respect me the same way I did them. I never would've even put myself in the position (as much as I love DD) to become a mother at 25 for someone who was still in love with his real desired step-in wife and just wanted me as a backup / stand-in.

I was reiterating this, and during the process of disagreeing with me on one statement I made about the way he was with AP vs how he is with me, WH started to raise his voice.

"I don't see how talking to someone once every few months is protecting them". Then something about how he was sorry, or something similar. I don't remember that part as well because of his voice raising.

I pointed out that even now he was getting angry. WH says, obviously at the very least aggitated, that he's not. I said "Clearly you are", and he yells "Well now I am!" and storms out.

Follow two more storm outs of the house (both WH,) yelling that he and DD are leaving because if I don't want to be with WH I'm obviously throwing them out on the street, and one hour of me sitting in a parking lot later and here I am.

What WH did was wrong, no doubt. I can't even argue that he's not abusive, because the signs are as neon bright as the store signs, in the dark, sitting in the parking lot at 11pm at night.

WH said when I came home that he was triggered because I told him he was feeling something that he wasn't. He was frusturated, but not angry. When I pointed out an Anger Chart to him that I found online, WH said he's never seen them as being the same (frustration and anger.) He did also say that, thought I probably wouldn't believe him, he was sorry. I told him whether or not I believed him or not was irrelevant - the end result was still the same.

I'm so tired. How many times do I have to HEAR sorry before I actually SEE it? I'm not the same woman that, only a year ago, was literally on my knees - crying and begging for him to LISTEN to me, to actually HEAR ME for ONCE; that he kept villianizing me to keep himself as the victim and that I couldn't take the emotional and mental damage anymore. That he was killing any chance of R.

I pointed out to him that I'd seen stories of remorseful Ws begging for another chance, sometimes even on their knees (as I was to him.)

WH asked, with incredulous disdain, "what, you want me to grovel?"

After everything, after tonight, I don't even know that actually getting on his knees, like I was, would be enough to ever feel any romantic love for this person ever again.

But that woman that was so desperately, pathetically in love with him is still in me crying somewhere.

Because I think even she is finally starting to realize that he never would. Never will.

AP and WH dated for a week, 20 years ago, after breaking up when she had sex with his cousin right in front of his face.

Chasing / pining after his XWGF / AP for roughly 20 years is okay, but coming out here and even attempting to ask me for one final chance; show how much he wants me (and not just as a safety net) and our relationship is too distasteful.

The light's off in the bedroom, so I can only assume he's at least sleeping (even if not peacefully.)

In contrast, I'll be waiting up all night, for that crying woman inside me that loved so deeply and just couldn't stop hoping.

Thanks for reading my tired ramblings if you got this far. Any comments, advice, or 2x4's welcome.

No 2x4s here. A huge hug to an incredible person. Yes… you!

You’re also a great writer, telling your story with verve and poignancy. It’s a sad story, but I see you have courage, humour and intelligence on your side to turn it into an happier one. And yes, of course, you are in an abusive relationship. But you know that, now, it sounds like. I’d point you toward an IC to help you on this next stage of your ‘awakening’ but really I feel your first port of call needs to be seeking legal advice. Then IC. Pay for yours, stop paying for his. You are worth far more than being this pay-check for a person who has not learnt, it seems, to take one iota of responsibility for anything in his life, always shifting blame and responsibility elsewhere. There’s many who have difficult childhoods who have not turned that history into an excuse to abuse and take advantage of another’s compassion. You have a lot of compassion. Muster it now for yourself, a beautiful person who needs to be valued and appreciated for who she is. There’s a large crowd of us here, holding you if you need and cheering you on. Big big hug to you,

Loving someone doesn't mean you have to accept that someone's abuse. It's certainly better for you to remove yourself from abuse, and it may be better for the abuser, too. You can love someone but not live with them.

Love is not enough for R. R requires work from both partners. You can't R alone.

On a practical matter, have you looked into Social Security disability benefits? If you haven't, it's worth checking into. I don't know if your H qualifies, but if he does, it will help your finances.

Duchess, I am so sorry you are still getting bullsh*t from your WS. That line about not being a "real mom" was a way below the belt nasty comment. That would be enough for me to walk. (I couldn’t have kids and AP had kids, so that one is sensitive to me.). The whore comment would compel me to kick his butt out.

With all the work from home available these days, can he not work? It seems he could contribute if he wanted to - he figured out how to have an A and get by all these years. I believe you that he has a disability - just want to be sure he’s not using that as an excuse if he IS able to bring in some income while you work yourself to the bone.

But please look after you. He’s not going to change. He doesn’t want to change, doesn’t see the need.
It’s time to put you first. Don’t worry about him. And DD13. Talk to a lawyer. Understand all the options. Keep detaching. Whether you stay or go, that will be helpful. Also, in small quarters like yours, DD13 is seeing all of this, hearing all of this. Model for her that you won’t put up with his abuse, that it is unhealthy.

Hang in there. You are strong, compassionate, and clear headed. It takes clear thinking to write as well as you do (and you are a very good writer!), so you can get through this.

Thank you to all who took the time to respond - I truly, sincerely appreciate it. ((Hugs))

It took me awhile to get back into a good, detached place, but after this past weekend I feel I am finally (mostly) back to where I was before. If I'm not there yet, I'm confident that I'm at least back on the right path again.

To answer a few questions, WH is most definitely disabled. I only believe this to be true because when WH first was diagnosed, I was the one taking him to most of his doctor's appointments and heard the diagnosis from his doctor(s) myself. The nature of his disability is physical, so he is unable to perform any of the jobs he'd currently qualify for. WH has no skillset beyond physical jobs; even the managerial positions he's held within retail and food service are more physically taxing then what he is capable of handling anymore. I don't want to get into details as the case is still ongoing (and I try to leave most of it to WH and his lawyer,) but these are facts that have been brought up while fighting for Social Security disability benefits for WH.

I have not yet been to IC, nor have I been able to schedule any legal consultation. If I had the funds for IC I would do so, but the money just isn't there for all three of us. Surprisingly, I'm currently the most mentally-stable of the household, so in terms of prioritizing IC DD came first, then WH next. I struggle daily with my mental health, but with WH's emotional immaturity and anger issues (that not only affect me, but also DD,) his need for therapy far outweighs mine.

Legal consultation can be free, but none of the divorce lawyers in my area have any office hours that don't conflict with my work schedule. Ironically enough I am the one that has a position that could be WFH (I'm a software developer) but my current job is mainly in-office (with very rare exceptions) as I work for a smaller company and they are more old-fashioned in terms of allowing remote work. I've been swamped since mid-2023 with structural changes since my previous boss left, and barring emergencies, have not been allowed to use any of the PTO that my company offers.

I honestly, at this point in time, see no path for true R for my marriage. However, I also see no way forward for D (currently) without losing access to DD, as I have no legal rights to custody.

So for now my choice is to stay in the M, for the sake of DD. All kids leave the nest eventually, and regardless of the state of the M, I believe if I work at it I can still be happy and get 'unstuck' (mostly from WH and caring what he thinks) in the meantime. I've told WH before, on not only the A but also with his behavior post DDay, that he shouldn't be surprised if the day DD leaves I'm out the door right behind her (metaphorically speaking.)

Would I like to R? I did, at one point. And on some level, I still do.

Whether my lingering desire for R is coming more from the co-dependency, or from an actual desire to be married to WH in a HEALTHY M, is something I'm honestly still struggling with.

But I think those thoughts are for another thread, another day.

Once again though, thanks to all who responded! 🙂 This community is a blessing, and I hope to one day get to a place where I'm able to add my voice to the chorus of support. 💜

So... you're probably not as trapped you feel.

I've got lots of stuff I'd like to say about this, but I don't imagine that you'd want to really hear it, and I don't know if it would get through to you without being blunt on the matter.

So, rather than do that, I'm going to suggest a series of things that will hopefully lead you to a place where you're acknowledging to youself these blunt observations.

First, I'd suggest keeping a journal, somewhere he can't get to it. Maybe at work?

It can really help you sort things out in your head. Especially if there's still gaslighting. It's also a lot harder to be in denial about stuff when you write it down.

Second, I'd suggest taking your stepdaughter out to eat and having a full conversation on the situation and really, really get her opinion on the matter.

This... can go several directions, and you should keep an absolutely open mind when she talks to you about it. It's one thing if she sees you as her mom 100%, and an absolute different thing if she sees you as someone who is getting in the way of her relationship with her father. Or real mother.

I can imagine how that conversation could get ugly or how it might feel like additional betrayal on top of his cheating if she isn't viewing you how you would want her to be.

Keep in mind that if your husband is capable of emotionally manipulating you, he's perfectly capable of twisting his daughters thoughts how he wants them.

Third, I recommend speaking to a divorce attorney to get an idea of what divorce wouod look like to you financially 5 years down the line. (5 years because of Stepdaughter age 18).

This is NOT me telling you I think you should get a divorce. This is me saying to use the power of candy canes and red stockings to summon forth the ghost of xmas past early.

You sound like you're in the thick of things, kinds lost in the woods. These actions will let you know not only where the forest is, but how many miles you'll need to hike.

Wishing you strength.

Another thing to consider is that the longer you are married can affect spousal support. Please check it out with a lawyer because it varies by state.

I have 2 step-sisters through a man who was married to my mom for 10 years. After my mom divorced him, we lost contact with them for a while. After my step-sisters hit older (18), the hot back in contact. They have called my mom "mom" since the ere little, and did until my mom passed. All of that to say that even if you D, that doesn't mean that DD is out of your life.

[This message edited by leafields at 6:44 AM, Thursday, February 29th]

Leafields was spot on.

The pro of staying until Dday is 18 is that she is an adult and she will be able to have a relationship with you independent of your WH.

The cons of waiting is that longer you are married, the larger the amount or duration of spousal support and amount of your 401K/pension your WH can claim.

Through your good and loving heart, you have found yourself in a mess. But, I need to ask this, if WH suddenly won the lottery, do you believe he would stay with you? (It's not because you don't deserve love and respect, but because he is a child in a man's body. I believe he is too immature to really love anyone the way you deserve to be loved.)

I wonder if he would be willing to allow you to raise DD is you decide to break up. If he were to get all the visitation he wants. I feel that sometimes, guys like him would be happy to give up the responsibility and the financial responsibility if they can play dad when they feel like it. I'd get it all legalized though so that he couldn't play you like he is doing now.

These are things to consider, along with Notthevictem's five year plan. As stated, talk to an attorney about all of this though. I just don't see you finding happiness until you've shed this weight he's placed upon your neck (and your heart.)

Keep posting.