Long time, no update.
Well, we went to OH for the eclipse, did the cheaper town option and it worked out great! The drive home was lonnnnnng... but worth it
. And within a good budget too. H said he enjoyed it (except the driving) and that it was worth it. Kids were happy too. We did get grumpy with each other- but that turned out to be hangry as we had a later lunch, so easily fixed. The corona was indescribably beautiful. Breathtaking. I hope everyone gets a chance at some point in their life to experience something as beautiful as that in nature.
Can someone please do me the great favor of reading this and confirming I'm on a good track here?
H and I are doing better and worse by turns. Progress has been made on his side with taking accountability for hurts caused when we were dating and during the M. We had a big argument yesterday- he kept referencing conversations he's been having with J- a LOT more than usual- during our trip to OH for the eclipse. It came down for me to his using snapchat to talk with her and how my trust with him is low. He mentioned in the first year they were working together (before my A) that she asked a mutual friend if H would ever date her. RED FRICKING FLAG
. It mirrored nearly exactly his inappropriate friendship with "L" in college. I'm not going to detail that here, she basically offered him a BJ before we dated while he dated a previous GF and he would share stuff about our relationship with her while lying in her bed...
I told him that, "Looking back, if I was as strong then as I am now, I would have told you to choose between me or L and left for home the next day. (We were in Boston and he left me alone with a vomiting friend of his to get more drinks at the bar with L.)" That opened his eyes.
As a result of the long discussion and much back and forth, he's has removed snapchat and deactivate his account. We will see. I told him very clearly that, "I have a hard time trusting you at your word. I've been open with you about just how important it is to me that you delete snapchat and deactivate your account and stop talking to J." I also reiterated this morning how inappropriate the friendship is because she wanted to date him. He took exception saying, "it's not sexual like that" about his friendship with her. I called bs on that since J has shown to be one of those people who use and get used for things like attention and purses.
Going back to the whole rings thing too- I brought up how it's upsetting that over a year before our A, there was a coworker who contemplated her chances with him dating her. To me that implies that she either picked up that he was A. not married or B. not happy about his M. That with the no-ring-wearing... yeah. Definitely had some WS tendencies going on there. Takes one (fWS) to know one...
I think he's finally getting it on this one. Still he's upset and feels pressured into it and doesn't like that. He has deleted snapchat as of right now. I'm going to sit back and see where it goes and see if he follows through with not communicating with her.
One thing we were discussing was "trauma" vs "baggage." Like, trauma is something that happened to you that you're working on and are looking for help in dealing with. Like, trauma from my childhood, his trauma from my A. Then baggage being something you're not getting rid of- holding on to. Like, is baggage like a scar that you will carry forever, or is it a choice you cling to as a defense against further pain? I imagine it like being surrounded by so much clutter that you're walled off from being hurt. And walled off from interacting meaningfully with anyone...
Really though, I think trauma becomes baggage when a person refuses to work on the pain. Like they choose to hold on to it and use it as a shield. I do this, and I know H does this.
During our argument we went over how we don't have a close sense of "us" and "we" still. This is despite us doing many things together, having much clearer communication and being increasingly open about our feelings and expectations. I think that H is still working through some baggage related to my A, as he's unable to take an impartial look at the good that is present in the M right now. At one point, I told him I feel he's missing out. H responded, "I'm not missing out- I'm going and doing things myself and not waiting on you any more." I then pointed out that he's missing out on being with me and being part of an us. He grew quiet after that and said, "yes, I do miss us being an us."
This morning, we were arguing about a friendship of mine and a business trip I may be taking next month. The guy I'm friends with -call him SM- (and friends with his wife and H has met him several times at church- they go to our church) works at a company that I'm partnering in a project with for my work. I have a business trip to a conference next month (still need $$ approval for the travel- budget is tight) where I will be presenting a paper we co-authored and where SM will also be attending. I'm afraid SM likes my conversation more than he might like his wife's. She's very busy with their 5 kids and daughter competing in a national level travel sport. I have put up walls (per "Not Just Friends") around my M with H and share the positive things I like about H and what H and I do on the weekend with SM. SM knows only the good stuff about H and what we like to do for date night and how much I enjoy H's parenting and how proud I am of H's hard work in his career. I DO NOT share my M struggles with SM. He likewise doesn't share anything negative beyond how busy having 5 kids and working to support a family can get. He has expressed to me that he wishes he had more "date nights" with his wife and hopes that they can enjoy that once their younger ones can be left home long enough for them to grab a dinner out. We have a lot in common in terms of engineering interests, church and family life raising kids of similar ages- all things we talk about.
Thing is, conversation with SM flows easily- he's a very chatty outgoing person. His manner of speaking to me and to H are the same- I study it carefully when we meet in church. However, when H and I are arguing, H has told me he's jealous that my conversation with SM seems easier than it does with H. I'm scarred from being on the other side of a spouse having a friendship with a member of the opposite sex where conversation is going easier for friends than for the couple. Especially since I was the W who the H was comparing to the friend. I'm afraid that SM would even START to compare his W negatively to me. I have no sign of that happening, but it's something that I'm sensitive to since I've been on the other end of that equation. SM's comment about wanting more time out for "date nights" with his W is the only negative thing he's shared about their M. Still, with all that I've done and experienced, I'm unsure if that's a "yellow" flag or a "red" flag. I know what it's like from first hand experience to be uncomfortable with a spouse's close friendship of the opposite sex. AND I'm sensitive to H's sensitivity around my friendship with SM. Really, I see SM as a cousin and not a threat to our M had we not had all the EA/A baggage in our past. BUT... baggage we have and must deal with. So, I'm asking: am I seeing a caution light or a stop light on the friendship? Either way, I plan to pull back because H is uncomfortable.
H is not comfortable with me going on a business trip to the same conference with SM. H doesn't want me going on the trip at all and feels I choose my work over the M on a regular basis. Logically, that is not the case. I put our family and our M ahead of work quite often. I make sure to leave early for the kids and take time off for time alone with H on a regular basis.
My theory is that H has baggage around a spouse working as his dad was largely absent when he was a kid, climbing the corporate ladder. I think H's "trauma" has become "baggage" because logically, I need to work and do work well for the benefit of him, our family and our M (I refuse to make choices that will build my later resentment- a major thing that led to my A). H claims I don't need to travel for my work as I've so seldomly done it since covid. I told him that in order for me to feel like I'm doing the work my company is paying me for (and maintain professional integrity), I need to go on this trip. It's to a conference for specialists in my area where I will be presenting and giving a keynote round table discussion at the start of the conference. It's a big honor for me, a boost in industry visibility for my company and for the project I have been working on for the past 4 years.
H wants to equate this conference and friendship with SM to his relationship with J. That emotionally, for him, the conference is as painful to him as his friendship with J is to me. H wants me to act on his emotional pain in the same way he is being asked to act on his friendship with J. That I cut off the conference as he is being asked to cut out J. The conference (work) is not in the same boat on a LOGICAL level. AT ALL. Work pays the bills, allows him and the family to enjoy material privileges and comforts. H's friendship with a sketchy person (drug addict- weed, alcohol and shrooms, helped break up her current BF's M) like J affords none of that. I'm struggling with this as LOGICALLY, work friendship with someone who has not demonstrated questionable morals and the work conference is not the same as a personal friendship with someone who has demonstrated questionable morals.
The friendship with SM is something that I can pull back from for the peace of mind of H. I can also not engage outside of conference hours with him and plan on dinners with other colleagues instead of him and keep my distance. I'm looking into bringing H with me so we can spend time together in a fun city after hours. However, if H can't come with me, I still plan on going alone and sticking to the plan of not spending time outside of conference hours in the company of SM.