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A question from both myself and BS. We have been discussing that although the majority of my infidelity/wayward behaviour was many years ago (Particularly some of the physical aspect 20 years) it feels to BS that this all happened yesterday. I understand this and am trying to be supportive and not defensive. BS ask how this can be reframed and bring her back to the "now" when these thoughts occur. In the past I would have shouted "It was twenty fucking years ago!!" This is quite rightly the wrong thing to say or do. What can be said or done to support in this situation and not sound or feel like rug sweeping or minimising?

We’re both at a loss on this one. Supportive not defensive, proactive not minimising, understanding not dismissive….you know what I mean.

I remember struggling with similar issues early on after DDay. My wife would ask me how I felt about something during the A, and then I'd tell her how I felt about it during the A, and her response would be framed in the moment, not the past. It was frustrating for both of us too.

Infidelity is trauma, straight up. And like any trauma, if left unprocessed, it will turn into PTSD, which is something I'm sure you've seen discussed a lot on SI. I would suggest reading, "The Body Keeps the Score" to better understand trauma and how/why it affects us so, but the nutshell idea is this...

We have to process our hurt. By process I mean "understand", but I also mean it in the physical sense. Our bodies also need to physically process trauma, and if we don't allow that to happen, that trauma gets "Stuck" and to our brains, it feels as if the trauma is happening right now, not 20 years ago. You are seeing the effects of that now.

In my therapy, I had a lot of my own, non-A-related trauma from my childhood that had remained unprocessed my whole life. One of the things my IC had me do was to get physical. For example, go take a brisk walk, enough to get your heart and limbs going. Then gently think about your trauma while walking (or working out, whatever works for you). This will allow the physical component of the processing to take place as well as the mental/emotional aspect. I know it helped me a lot. Reading the book also helped me understand what was going on, so it wasn't such a black hole for me.

The other part of the equation is trust and truth. You can't process that for which you feel you are missing info/truth. If truth is missing, then how can you process it? Part of the struggle I think I see in your situation is that there have been so many lies for so many years that how could one possibly ever come to the conclusion that "all the truth" has been told? 20 years ago, you were lying and TT'ing. The same has happened in recent history. So from your wife's POV, nothing has changed, and so the past and present are basically the same things from an emotional standpoint.

Be patient. I know its hard and it hurts. For your brain, this happened 20 years ago. To her, it's a different story. It's fresh, it's new, so 20 years ago and today ARE the same thing. They feel the same, and she sees you as being the same in both cases. Like everything else, time, truth, consistency, sacrifice... a consistent flow of these things will help counter the lies and betrayal. It takes time to balance out 20 years of mistrust.

Your cheating is only as old as the last time you cheated. So, the "20 years ago" stuff gets lumped in with whatever is current. That's just the way brains work. Traumas get connected. Now, if you hadn't cheated AT ALL in twenty years, I think your WW would need to get in with a trauma specialist and reprocess the injury, but you've cheated A LOT, and even though 2017 was a while ago, given your example of "It was 20 years ago!", it sounds like you're just now really engaging the process and employing some empathy.

Be patient. I know its hard and it hurts. For your brain, this happened 20 years ago. To her, it's a different story. It's fresh, it's new, so 20 years ago and today ARE the same thing. They feel the same, and she sees you as being the same in both cases. Like everything else, time, truth, consistency, sacrifice... a consistent flow of these things will help counter the lies and betrayal. It takes time to balance out 20 years of mistrust.

Thanks. A consistent approach to my actions and words to BS. We get that what was 20 years ago for me is recent history for BS. I try and remember this and keep in the forefront of my mind that I can not and should not get frustrated by this. I am reading "the pinned post" every day and MacDonalds book a couple of times a week. I need to get this to stay in my head and not allow the selfish shutdown monster to win.

Your cheating is only as old as the last time you cheated. So, the "20 years ago" stuff gets lumped in with whatever is current. That's just the way brains work. Traumas get connected. Now, if you hadn't cheated AT ALL in twenty years, I think your WW would need to get in with a trauma specialist and reprocess the injury, but you've cheated A LOT, and even though 2017 was a while ago, given your example of "It was 20 years ago!", it sounds like you're just now really engaging the process and employing some empathy.

Yes, and it's only as old as the last d-day. My last infidelity was 2017, but there have been multiple d-days since then, meaning the 2001 infidelity was actually last year. I think my questions was more aimed at BS's or WS's who have open and honest communication with BS (not for one second suggesting either DD is not a reformed WS or communicating badly). We/I need advice I guess on what to say or not say when these feelings occur. I/we know it is going to take time. Hard work by me om both myself and the marriage, BS is starting IC with a trauma specialist. Is there something you did or you WS did for you that helped the mind focus on the now, while at the same time not rug sweeping, minimising or avoiding important conversations. It's a fine line, for us anyway. This question did come originally from BS.

from your wife's POV, nothing has changed, and so the past and present are basically the same things

IMO, this says it all. So, my suggestion is to be able to talk about the ways in which things HAVE changed as of TODAY. Now, during a trigger, your BS may not take too kindly to it (at least not at first), which is absolutely understandable, and may require you to have Superman patience. IMO, if you have shown via consistent actions over time, that you are changing, that needs to be discussed when your BS is in the midst of these feelings or a trigger.

One technique to try and get "executive" brain back "online" is to tap your forehead to try and reorient to the current time/place/situation. Another is deep breathing. IME, if I can get executive brain back in the saddle, it's easier to manage the trigger and remind myself that I am in today and not yesterday.

Another great way to help rewire those pesky neurons is the HEAL steps found in Rick Hansen's "resilient" book. Get it on audio so you can do the exercises w/o looking at the book. It's not about infidelity, but about finding ways to routinely incorporate joy and gratitude into our day-to-day. The neurons that fire together, wire together, so if we (BS, WS, anyone) are focusing on negative, we are reinforcing negative.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 4:38 PM, Monday, February 21st]