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Just Found Out :
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SnowToArmPits ( member #50943) posted at 5:49 AM on Saturday, June 26th, 2021

how much she loves me and that things with her AP were "just sex".

OK. Well what you and she have is "just a marriage" and because she's a lying cheater you may as well "just divorce".

posts: 346   ·   registered: Dec. 25th, 2015   ·   location: Canada
id 8670147
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redbaron007 ( member #50144) posted at 9:01 AM on Saturday, June 26th, 2021

Take your time...with kids already out of the home, I'm sure you can allow yourself some alone time to recover and think objectively. If your WW can risk a 27 year relationship on some meaningless sex with someone her daughter's age, maybe it's worth considering whether she's worth spending the next 27 years with...just saying.

Me: BS (44)
She: WS (41)
One son (6)
DDay: May 2015 (OBS told me)
Divorced, Zero regrets, sound sleep, son doing great!
A FOG is just a weather phenomenon. An Affair Fog is a clever excuse invented by WS's to explain their continued bad behavior.

posts: 220   ·   registered: Oct. 30th, 2015   ·   location: West Coast
id 8670152
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ShutterHappy ( member #64318) posted at 9:41 AM on Saturday, June 26th, 2021

that things with her AP were "just sex"

We hear that on occasion from WW. It’s because they think that as long as they still love you, having sex with someone else is not too bad. Those WW who say that don’t know men very well.

Keep posting on this thread. It makes following your story easier.

Me: BH
Divorced, remarried.
I plan on living forever. So far so good

posts: 1438   ·   registered: Jun. 30th, 2018   ·   location: In my house
id 8670156
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Butforthegrace ( member #63264) posted at 12:34 PM on Saturday, June 26th, 2021

She kept telling me how much she regrets her "mistake", how much she loves me and that things with her AP were "just sex".

I told you she would try to use "mistake". They all do. It's cheater 101. Fucking a co-worker for months is not just a decision and a choice, it is hundreds of decisions and hundreds of choices. Intentional choices.

Frankly, in this scenario she did make a "mistake" -- holding hands and engaging in PDA with the AP in a place where she might be seen by your family. Her plan was to carry on a secrete sexual affair indefinitely. She had worked out many of the details quite well. Given her intent, engaging in PDA with the AP was a mistake.

Consider this: but for the happenstance of that mistake, she's still be fucking Mr. Goodbar. The irony is that she'd be doing it on Wednesdays while you're at therapy, presumably trying to be a better husband (among other things).

I had her send a NC text to her AP right there in front of me

She hadn't done that yet? Seriously? If a cheater is serious about R, she would read on places like this. She would know that this is the first thing she needs to do. Ergo, she is not serious about R. From the tenor of her comments, she simply wants to rug-sweep this.

By the way, they're friggin' co-workers. NC won't work in this context. It puts you into a bit of a dilemma. If you really want to make a go of R, either she or he will need to quit the job. There is no way your heart will have peace if you know she's going to work every day and seeing him there. But if you're going to D, you want her earning as much as possible to minimize your spousal support. It's an inflection point you'll need to consider.

and tell me all of her social media passwords. She also handed her phone over to me and allowed me to take screenshots of all texts she's sent her AP and allowed me to take it home to check for deleted messages.

You realize it's likely she has gone on a deleting spree. What you're seeing is selected by her to minimize.

If you are even remotely considering R, where is her written timeline. She's had plenty of time and opportunity to start it.

Most BH's who try R find that, to consider R, they have to know what they are R'ing from. That means the x-rated version, as if you were a fly on the wall.

The best approach is to have her sit and face you and read it aloud to you, while looking into your eyes. As painful as this sounds, it is less painful than the wondering and mind movies. Also, it gives her an opportunity to see and comprehend the trauma she has caused you. R only works if she has empathy for your trauma and takes steps to be a part of your healing.

It has other salutary effects. Affairs are enabled by layers of lying. Reading the timeline might be the first genuine, honest thing she will do with/for you concerning the A. It is a step to restoring intimacy.

Which leads to another point. The A is a cocoon of intimacy she wove with the AP. It creates an intimacy hole in the fabric of the marriage. Unless she brings you into the heart of that cocoon, the hole will always be there.

By the way, the "it was just sex", cheating women say this all the time to their betrayed husbands. In their minds (female mind), it's a way of trying to minimize. There have been some epic long threads about this here on SI. Suffice it to say that, in general, a lot of men, maybe most, find the sexual aspect of a cheater's A to be the most painful; women find the emotional aspects of it to be the most painful. A woman says "it was just sex" to a man because, from her perspective, she thinks hearing this would be less painful. By saying this, she is showing you that she has no empathy for your point of view at present. For a man, the sexual details are excruciatingly painful, and the idea that our wife could hurt us like that for "just sex" is often even more painful than if she thought she was actually in love with him. We want her to want us for "just sex". Why can't we have some hot, NSA sex? Why would she give that joy and positive reinforcement to another man, but deny it to her husband?

I phrase it that way because, back to my initial point, for many men, the trauma, sexual humiliation, and emasculation of a sexual A by our wife is too much to overcome. D is often the only option.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 6:02 AM, June 28th (Monday)]

"The wicked man flees when no one chases."

posts: 3771   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2018   ·   location: Midwest
id 8670167
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Buffer ( member #71664) posted at 12:49 PM on Saturday, June 26th, 2021

Hey brother,

Cheaters lie, they lie a lot to minimise and to control the fall out.

She looked hurt. She kept telling me how much she regrets her "mistake", how much she loves me and that things with her AP were "just sex".

No that is incorrect. If you were sleeping with a 23 year old for ‘just sex’ would that count as a mistake?

No it was constant manipulation.

The flirting at work, the first lunch and her justification to her self that it is ok as it is just a meal. Yet it was a date!

The excitement of that first touch. Then the anticipation of the first kiss 💋. Then the ongoing duration for five months, Finally the justification of the sleeping with a person as old as her children. No This wasn’t a mistake but a planned event that could have been halted at any time with one word.

But not to mention the public display of affection; a woman her age walking hand in hand with a boyfriend that age in public. I am sure the office staff all knew of this tryst. Due to the public displays. Call it out for what it is a selfish act on her part.

What was she thinking would happen when she and her boy toy were discovered? Then when confronted by her Sister and Brother? Did she think they would enable her wayward ways? That she could control this and still have her weekly sessions?

She needs to respect you: presently she is still minimising this as just sex, a mistake, never thought it would get to this, I was just going with the flow, everyone at work new and encouraged it.

Take it easy, exercise IC, lawyer and STD checks. Take your time to see if you can get though this. You don’t want to rug sweep this.

One day at a time

Buffer

posts: 1192   ·   registered: Sep. 24th, 2019   ·   location: Australia
id 8670168
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 Tacit (original poster new member #78985) posted at 3:56 PM on Saturday, June 26th, 2021

Just a quick update. My WW has dropped by and given me her written timeline of events since the day she met her AP. I haven't had the time to read through it in full detail, I've just skimmed it for now. I'm honestly having to build up the courage to read what she has written. Just reading through the first couple of pages filled my head with these images of them together.

I did find a place where we can get the polygraph test done relatively nearby. I'm going to set a date for us both to go and confront her with the timeline. Should I let her come back to the house if she passes the test? I'm thinking that if she does, I'll allow her to come back, but not sleep in the same room as me. I'd still give it a few months to see what I want to do and what she does that might make me think reconciliation is viable.

I've gone through her phone messages and social media, which also wasn't easy and made me feel sick to my stomach. I've seen that she also sent a NC message to her AP on DDay in addition to the one that I had her send yesterday, so I guess yesterday I was only having her reinforce that. I also used a few programs to check for deleted messages. Didn't find any, but I'm not tech savy, so I'm going to ask her if she did delete any when we do the polygraph test.

I've gotten tested for STDs. Waiting on the results.

posts: 43   ·   registered: Jun. 22nd, 2021   ·   location: São Paulo, Brazil
id 8670186
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fareast ( member #61555) posted at 4:10 PM on Saturday, June 26th, 2021

You are doing well in this crapstorm. Be aware that you will continue to be on an emotional rollercoaster and you feelings will change often. You have suffered an emotional trauma. Do not underestimate its affects. Get stronger for you. Watch her actions they will tell you if she truly wants to try and rebuild your trust. To do so she is going to have to face her own failings and remain humble. You are in control. If she demonstrates actions and transparency that you see as positive and you decide to let her back in the house, so be it. Remember at anytime you may decide that her infidelity is a dealbreaker for you.

Never bother with things in your rearview mirror. Your best days are on the road in front of you.

posts: 2797   ·   registered: Nov. 24th, 2017
id 8670190
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 Tacit (original poster new member #78985) posted at 4:17 PM on Saturday, June 26th, 2021

Thank you, fareast. Right now I feel like an emotional pinball bouncing from one emotion to the next. One minute I'm a sobbing mess, the next I'm shaking with rage and then I'm going on about my day as if nothing happened.

If I don't have anything to occupy myself with, my head gets filled with these images of them being together. "An empty mind is the devil's workshop"

[This message edited by Tacit at 10:18 AM, June 26th (Saturday)]

posts: 43   ·   registered: Jun. 22nd, 2021   ·   location: São Paulo, Brazil
id 8670192
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ChamomileTea ( member #53574) posted at 5:15 PM on Saturday, June 26th, 2021

Should I let her come back to the house if she passes the test? I'm thinking that if she does, I'll allow her to come back, but not sleep in the same room as me. I'd still give it a few months to see what I want to do and what she does that might make me think reconciliation is viable.

If you're lucky enough to have your cheater out of the house until you decide whether or not you want R, why would you make changes? We have so many people who are actually on a divorce track and still can't get their cheater to leave. While it's true that the longer a separation persists, the more likely it is to become permanent, separation can also be therapeutic. It provides time for you to assess whether or not you really want this person in your life. Bear in mind that right now, in the JFO stage, most of us feel compelled to reestablish the status quo. That pull is STRONG. We feel like we've never loved our WS more and we suffer massive anxiety over the prospect of losing them. But... those feelings are temporary. They don't inform of about what we REALLY want. It takes some time for the shock to wear off so we can see how we really feel.

posts: 4530   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016
id 8670207
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ShutterHappy ( member #64318) posted at 5:37 PM on Saturday, June 26th, 2021

I agree with the above. Give yourself some time. Seek support from friends and family.

I think the Poly is premature. Although she’s doing good steps, she’s not R material yet.

Is she doing IC yet?

Taking responsibility for her action and her decisions?

Reading and researching how she can help you heal?

When you are ready, she should read the timeline to you. She should see the damage she has done first hand.

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 11:38 AM, June 26th (Saturday)]

Me: BH
Divorced, remarried.
I plan on living forever. So far so good

posts: 1438   ·   registered: Jun. 30th, 2018   ·   location: In my house
id 8670213
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clouds777 ( member #72442) posted at 6:08 PM on Saturday, June 26th, 2021

No, if you have a separated living arrangement that works, keep it that way to give yourself time.

Watch her actions. Decide what you want when you're ready - don't rush. Allow her to feel the consequences of her choices by managing the separation. Watch and see if she does things to help you or if she becomes impatient.

It is very unlikely she will just turn on a dime and go from adulterous to safe partner. You have no obligation to her. Do what's best for you and do not concern yourself with her wants or comfort. They should be at the absolute bottom of the list of priorities. Again, if she becomes impatient with this process or tries to control what happens next, you'll know R is not possible.

posts: 128   ·   registered: Jan. 1st, 2020
id 8670215
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src9043 ( member #75367) posted at 7:45 PM on Saturday, June 26th, 2021

After my ex-wife's first affair, I demanded that she take a polygraph because of my suspicion there were others. She passed it. Our MC basically guilted me into taking her back since she passed the polygraph. I never agreed to do that, but like a fool, I went along with the program. Six miserable years later I caught her again.

Make no promises at all regarding the polygraph. Make that clear to your WW. Good luck to you.

posts: 417   ·   registered: Sep. 7th, 2020
id 8670224
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paboy ( member #59482) posted at 7:53 PM on Saturday, June 26th, 2021

The purpose of this forum is to help you 'get out of infidelity'.

Thus far, you have done well.

Recovery can take up to 5 years on average if you attempt to reconcile. A lot shorter on average if you don't.

On the left hand corner of this page is a yellow box which has a icon called the'Healing library'. Inside of this is a number of articles that you can read to help you in your decisions.

If you need, take your time. Your decisions going forward are going to be gut wrenching what ever you decide.

Remember to keep hydrating, stay away from the alcohol. Eat, even if it is protein bars. See your doctor if you need sleeping assistance. And exercise.

God bless as you move forward.

posts: 586   ·   registered: Jul. 4th, 2017   ·   location: australia
id 8670225
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paboy ( member #59482) posted at 8:17 PM on Saturday, June 26th, 2021

Regarding a polygraph, there purpose in these situations are to uncover if there has been an affair(s) and to what extent the affair had gone i.e. it only happened once.

Your need to have one now, may only be academic as she has been fairly open about the affair to date. Unless the timeline says, that most of the time they were together, they were only holding hands.

What I am saying is don't waste money on it just for the sake of having ticked a box. Unless you feel she is being deceitful, and it is hindering your decisions, don't bother.

posts: 586   ·   registered: Jul. 4th, 2017   ·   location: australia
id 8670228
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Stevesn ( member #58312) posted at 8:29 PM on Saturday, June 26th, 2021

I would ask her if she deleted any messages and let her know you’re gonna Poly her on the answer.

Another thing about timeline. It is sometimes therapeutic and drives the severity home of the choices she has made if you ask her to read to you the rougher parts. The parts about their courtship and parts when they got physical. It will be hard to hear but can set a base for what your both will need to heal from.

Lastly if she didn’t put what she was thinking and feeling at each point in the timeline, ask her to. It’s an important part of understanding the affair. What emotions she felt. What she felt about the AP and what she felt about you at the time. What thoughts she had as she undressed, as he penetrated, as they cuddled. Etc….

Best of luck.

fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.

posts: 3176   ·   registered: Apr. 17th, 2017
id 8670229
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 Tacit (original poster new member #78985) posted at 8:31 PM on Saturday, June 26th, 2021

Unless you feel she is being deceitful

The thing is, if you had me asked that a month ago, I would have said that my wife could never lie to me. But obviously a month ago she was having her affair and, as has been pointed out to me many times since I've found this forum and on the resources that I have found, cheaters lie. I used to be able to trust everything she said without question, now I'm not so sure.

I have been reading through the timeline. It's been rough. I told her that she needed to tell me everything, what she was feeling, how they would flirt, the first time they kissed, what they did when they were together. She didn't hold back on the details. I've had to take breaks every few minutes. I've only made halfway through what she has written and there is still so much...

posts: 43   ·   registered: Jun. 22nd, 2021   ·   location: São Paulo, Brazil
id 8670230
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SnowToArmPits ( member #50943) posted at 10:32 PM on Saturday, June 26th, 2021

You read a detailed timeline like that, with what she was thinking, and you'll ask yourself who was she married to - him or me?

posts: 346   ·   registered: Dec. 25th, 2015   ·   location: Canada
id 8670251
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Unsure2019 ( member #71350) posted at 12:00 AM on Sunday, June 27th, 2021

Tacit,

Sorry you’re here. It’s a place none of us ever thought we would be. You’ve gotten a lot of excellent advice and I think you’ve handled this exceptionally well so far. I would agree with many of the above posters about not letting you WW come home this early in the process. I don’t think that’s a signal you want to be sending at this stage. I would wait until you’ve consulted an attorney(s) as well as taking some time to get you get centered and really start to look at what it is that you want. I came home early from a business trip and walked in on my fiancé and her AP in our bed. Even though I left her, the mind movies haunted me for years and even sometimes intruded on other relationships. Be prepared for this. They really never go away.

I would also ask your WW to read her timeline out loud to you. I know this would be painful for you, but it could and should be excoriating for your WW. The combination of her reading the words and seeing your pain can many times help them make the switch from regret to remorse.

Finally, I would think about telling your children as soon as possible. Since most of the extended family knows of your WW’s adultery, your kids are for sure going to either pick up something is really wrong or they're going to be told by a relative. Take charge of the narrative. Whether you D or R, this is just one more consequence your WW is going to have for her “it was just sex” fling at you expense. Stay strong.

posts: 204   ·   registered: Aug. 21st, 2019   ·   location: California
id 8670262
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MickeyBill2016 ( member #56459) posted at 2:50 AM on Sunday, June 27th, 2021

It sounds like you are in a good place all things considered. You have a lot of the facts, there's no did she / didn't she question.

The poly is sort of a pysch ops effect to let her he know how little you trust anything she says. Right now she's spilling most of the truth to cover her ass, in a panic mode. Losing the young dude and Mr Reliable Tacit will be tough for her.

I assume that she also got a STI test?

Since you have a lot of information about the affair and the moral high ground, you have some control over what you want.

1. Have her stay at her parents or let her back home, that's your decision.

2. She explains to your kids what she did if there's any chance of reconciliation

3. Post nup, most are not enforceable but it is another tool in your toolbox.

Hang in there Tacit, at least yo aren't chasing ghosts like a lot of us did.

9 years married.
13 years divorced.

posts: 1176   ·   registered: Dec. 17th, 2016   ·   location: West of the 405 North of the Mexican border
id 8670294
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M1965 ( member #57009) posted at 2:55 AM on Sunday, June 27th, 2021

Tacit,

I suggest you take regular breaks from reading the timeline. Those things are always hard to get through, and you should give yourself some recovery time every day.

You are dealing with a lot, but a question that has come up a few times has not been answered. Has your wife told her manager/HR department about her affair?

She has quit her job, and she has to work for another month, but if her manager and the HR department do not know about her affair partner's actions, it leaves him free to keep doing the same thing with other middle-aged women who work there.

The affair partner in this situation is just 23, and if he is allowed to get away with damaging your marriage without his manager and the HR department being told about him, there is nothing to stop him from doing this again. In fact, if nothing is done at work, it may encourage him to think that very middle-aged woman there is fair game.

However, if the guy is kicked in the pants, and told that his behaviour is unacceptable, it might prevent him from doing the same thing to another marriage in future.

posts: 1178   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2017   ·   location: South East of England
id 8670296
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