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Just Found Out :
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Marz ( member #60895) posted at 6:49 PM on Wednesday, July 7th, 2021

She kept telling me how much she regrets her "mistake", how much she loves me and that things with her AP were "just sex".

This wasn’t a mistake. It was a calculated decision/choice she made. Never thinking she’d get caught.

Should be a red flag. Without remorse you won’t have much to work with.

[This message edited by Marz at 10:26 PM, July 7th (Wednesday)]

posts: 6623   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2017
id 8673159
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src9043 ( member #75367) posted at 6:56 PM on Wednesday, July 7th, 2021

Your WW's brief description of why she cheated sounds about right. Her callous, selfish actions are inexcusable. Obviously, it is your decision whether you want to continue with the marriage. If you decide to reconcile, I would demand a polygraph test to determine if she has had other flings during your marriage. I would also DNA the children. This will continue to drive home the point that she is an untrustworthy partner and should be treated as such. Also, you cannot reconcile without knowing the complete truth. Be careful of therapists. Some of them seem to feel it is their job to diminish the act of infidelity in order to preserve the marriage. I had one of those. Ugh. What a mistake I made listening to her nonsense. A good therapist should not discount your pain and your desire on what to do, including the decision to divorce. A good therapist should help you recapture your self-esteem and direct you toward activities that will mitigate your pain.

You have a giant shit sandwich to swallow if you stay with her. I did it once, but never again.

[This message edited by src9043 at 1:20 PM, July 7th (Wednesday)]

posts: 417   ·   registered: Sep. 7th, 2020
id 8673161
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ChamomileTea ( member #53574) posted at 7:26 PM on Wednesday, July 7th, 2021

My son is now legally an adult. I cannot make him do anything, but I am going to encourage him to seek IC along with me and his sister and I am going to put my foot down when I feel that he is being disrespectful to me or to women.

Hold space for his pain and let him come to terms with his relationship with his mother, but dont let him sink in his anger and lash out at those whove done nothing wrong, it will only isolate him further.

I think this is smart. Youngsters are rash and they tend to make overarching judgments without much ability to consider nuance.

As BS's we ALL understand the pain of betrayal, and we understand it in a way that we couldn't have before we experienced it for ourselves. I had NO IDEA how traumatic and agonizing this experience could be. My imagination wasn't even close. I remember giving advice to friends who were going through and I am ashamed of my own lack of empathy now. I thought I could empathize, but I had no clue what it really felt like.

The point is that most WS's have no idea how bad the damage is. They know it's bad. They can use their imagination, but they don't understand the TRAUMA because they can't feel it. My WH wasn't thinking about what would happen to me. That said, he didn't much care at the time. He had painted a big target on my forehead and directed ALL his angst and disappointment at it. But if he had known, if he had truly understood, I don't believe he would have done it. He didn't know I would have PTSD or suffer from depression for years. He didn't know I would be sick to my stomach with my hair falling out for months. Yes, they do this horrible thing to us, but no... I don't believe that most of them understand the scope of it. They know it's a betrayal. They know it's wrong. And defiantly, like teenagers, they don't care; not until/unless they learn to understand it.

Anyway, I mention this because our sons see the betrayal, but they don't see the nuance. They see the intention to betray, but they don't see that there's no way for the WS to really understand their own sin until afterwards and only IF their heart becomes open to it. They don't see that the WS isn't thinking about ANYONE other than themselves. It all seems so targeted and evil to the young bystander. I don't know how it is where you are, but here, half of all marriages end in divorce. Cheating is rampant, and it's always been a part of our history. And while cheating is a bad thing and we might even consider a cheater as a "bad person", it doesn't have to define an entire life. WS's CAN and do recover. We're talking about large swaths of the population after all.

Your young man is angry, but I agree with your sentiment above and with GiggleLoopMayor who said to "hold space for his pain" but don't allow disrespect. He's disappointed in his mom, but life is going to be full of disappointing people and events, and we can't go around demonizing anyone or anything that disappoints us. Betrayal feels so personal, so intimate, that's it's hard to step back and put it in context. But I do think it helps our healing process when we do, because we're able to let it be about the WS and not so much about us.

posts: 4530   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016
id 8673169
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babbu ( member #48847) posted at 3:27 AM on Thursday, July 8th, 2021

Why are we comparing adultery to the choice of young women to sleep with whatever sexual partner consensually that she wants? So long as they aren't hurting third parties and taking away their agency, what's the problem? This is some pearl clutching going on to a high degree.

There is no comparison. We women (just as well as men) are allowed to have safe, happy, fulfilling sex with as many partners as we want. There is no difference between a person who has had many partners versus a person who is more conservative.

What is even happening here and why are people endorsing this?

[This message edited by babbu at 9:28 PM, July 7th (Wednesday)]

posts: 267   ·   registered: Aug. 6th, 2015
id 8673360
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ShutterHappy ( member #64318) posted at 4:27 AM on Thursday, July 8th, 2021

Tacit,

Is it possible that part of your son’s reaction is due to cultural influence? It’s a difficult situation, I think it’s best to teach by example; stay calm and firm, with both your son and WW.

The posters here will sometimes pick up not only what you write but how you write it. You seem to me as an intelligent individual who think things through (I’m guessing with your writing style).

If that’s the case, my warning to you would be not to empathize and rationalize your WW too much. Focus on what YOU need to recover from the trauma your WW has inflicted upon you.

Me: BH
Divorced, remarried.
I plan on living forever. So far so good

posts: 1438   ·   registered: Jun. 30th, 2018   ·   location: In my house
id 8673370
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RocketRaccoon ( member #54620) posted at 10:05 AM on Thursday, July 8th, 2021

that things with her AP were "just sex"

This always gets me. WS trivializes it like a grocery item, "Honey, I'm off to the grocers to get some sex. You want anything whilst I'm there? We still have milk, right?"

Wayward thinking is so screwed up.

You cannot cure stupid

posts: 890   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2016   ·   location: South East Asia
id 8673413
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The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 11:05 AM on Thursday, July 8th, 2021

The whole premise of cheating is just plain selfishness.

The “I deserve to be happy” mentality just takes over and gives the cheaters justification for the affairs.

Which is why in most cases I have very little empathy for the cheater.

I hate to read things like “it didn’t mean anything” which is a typical cheater justification of the affair.

My H kept saying he wanted a D so he could be free to date the OW. So clearly it meant something!!!

It’s just become so much easier to cheat with social media these days. How very sad.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

posts: 10556   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8673422
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Stevesn ( member #58312) posted at 11:58 AM on Thursday, July 8th, 2021

Tacit

How did it go seeing your WW and having her read the timeline to you?

fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.

posts: 3176   ·   registered: Apr. 17th, 2017
id 8673438
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guvensiz ( member #75858) posted at 12:15 PM on Thursday, July 8th, 2021

that things with her AP were "just sex"

This always gets me. WS trivializes it like a grocery item, "Honey, I'm off to the grocers to get some sex. You want anything whilst I'm there? We still have milk, right?"

Wayward thinking is so screwed up.

They're not actually that stupid of course, they just hope their BSs are stupid enough to believe them.

They can't possibly think that what they're trying to hide so much and crying out and begging for when it's revealed is unimportant.

posts: 480   ·   registered: Nov. 14th, 2020
id 8673442
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Never2late ( new member #79079) posted at 1:19 PM on Thursday, July 8th, 2021

Guvensiz is 100% right on this.

posts: 21   ·   registered: Jul. 7th, 2021
id 8673455
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ShutterHappy ( member #64318) posted at 1:32 PM on Thursday, July 8th, 2021

This always gets me. WS trivializes it like a grocery item, "Honey, I'm off to the grocers to get some sex. You want anything whilst I'm there? We still have milk, right?"

RocketRaccoon wins the post of the day award!

Me: BH
Divorced, remarried.
I plan on living forever. So far so good

posts: 1438   ·   registered: Jun. 30th, 2018   ·   location: In my house
id 8673457
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 Tacit (original poster new member #78985) posted at 6:13 PM on Thursday, July 8th, 2021

Why are we comparing adultery to the choice of young women to sleep with whatever sexual partner consensually that she wants? So long as they aren't hurting third parties and taking away their agency, what's the problem?

I couldn't agree more! I was honestly a bit weirded out by the comments this received.

Is it possible that part of your son’s reaction is due to cultural influence?

You raise a very good point. It may very well be. Brazil is still an unbelievably sexist country. It shocked me because I always tried to steer him away from that path. I had never even heard him utter a single misogynistic thought. Before this he was very close to both his mother and sister. But now he is lashing out at every woman out there.

How did it go seeing your WW and having her read the timeline to you?

It was tough. Seeing her wasn't the hardest part. I have seen her a few times since DDay. What was tough was sitting through her reading the timeline. There were times where I was crying, other that I was shaking with rage. I had to tell her to stop a few times because it was becoming too much and I needed a few minutes to process. She cried through the whole thing, but I'm not sure how honest those tears were. She didn't protest or try to skip anything. She read through the whole thing. Whenever I asked for more details, she would give them to me. It took us about four hours to get through the it.

By the end I was emotionally exhausted and it looked like she was too. I told her that we will go through these questions again when we do the polygraph test. Again, she didn't protest.

It looks like she's being sincere, but I don't know wheter I believe her or not.

posts: 43   ·   registered: Jun. 22nd, 2021   ·   location: São Paulo, Brazil
id 8673542
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toby ( member #10337) posted at 6:40 PM on Thursday, July 8th, 2021

Did your WW continue to (see) her boyfriend after being confronted by BIL and SIL until they told you?

posts: 1760   ·   registered: Apr. 8th, 2006   ·   location: Texas
id 8673556
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 Tacit (original poster new member #78985) posted at 6:50 PM on Thursday, July 8th, 2021

Did your WW continue to (see) her boyfriend after being confronted by BIL and SIL until they told you?

According to the timeline she wrote, no. She claims that after she was found out by her siblings, her intention was to break up with her AP and to try and convince them not to tell me so she could move on and act like it never happened. She claims that the only times she interacted with him in person was at work and that she refused any advances made by him.

posts: 43   ·   registered: Jun. 22nd, 2021   ·   location: São Paulo, Brazil
id 8673560
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src9043 ( member #75367) posted at 7:20 PM on Thursday, July 8th, 2021

At this point, it sounds like the need for a polygraph is moot other than to find out if she cheated with other men. I suppose you want to confirm when she last communicated with the AP to confirm the timeline account. You have a ton of shit to swallow if you stay with her. Having been that route, I would never ever reconcile with anyone again who did that to me.

Good luck with your decision on whether to stay with your WW.

posts: 417   ·   registered: Sep. 7th, 2020
id 8673570
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AnOminousMan ( member #79091) posted at 11:13 PM on Thursday, July 8th, 2021

You raise a very good point. It may very well be. Brazil is still an unbelievably sexist country. It shocked me because I always tried to steer him away from that path. I had never even heard him utter a single misogynistic thought. Before this he was very close to both his mother and sister. But now he is lashing out at every woman out there.

I know you are hurting. But maybe, just maybe, you might want to cut the kid some slack and try not to filter his reaction to unbearable pain through your own worldview on gender politics, and conclude that this is a fair representation of his views on women.

Much like you, more recently for him, he just pulled a knife out of his back put there by someone he unconditionally trusted. I think it would be a mistake to focus more on the fact that he is bleeding all over the place rather than try to let him process his anger and heal.

I agree you must be firm with him. I just don't think asking him to deny all of his anger will do anyone any good. As sexist as it may sound, men, generally speaking, process pain through anger. At least initially.

I don't know if you are religious or not, but Jesus is a great example of someone who is firm, but kind. I wish you both luck.

If you love me, you will keep my commandments. (John 14:15)
My story doesn't really matter. I had it way easier than most.
The only thing that matters is can you stare into the mirror and like what you see.

posts: 104   ·   registered: Jul. 8th, 2021
id 8673654
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Sufi22 ( new member #75842) posted at 3:08 AM on Friday, July 9th, 2021

She claims that the only times she interacted with him in person was at work and that she refused any advances made by him.

Wasn't discovery when your SIL saw her holding hands with the OM in public at the mall? So seems like this statement needs some elaboration.

D-day: Aug 3 2018
BH-60 WW-50s
M 21 years
WW had 2 year EA(maybe PA) and 1 year ongoing contact during Covid
1 DD
Trying to R

posts: 8   ·   registered: Nov. 11th, 2020
id 8673739
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Stevesn ( member #58312) posted at 1:01 PM on Friday, July 9th, 2021

Tacit. Did your wife find an Infidelity specialist yet to work with? After NC this is the most important step for her to take to START the rebuilding process.

If not I’d let her know that her long journey to begin putting back together her own life let alone one with you cannot begin until she starts that work with a professional.

That you won’t even consider discussing the future before she starts with a proper therapist.

fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.

posts: 3176   ·   registered: Apr. 17th, 2017
id 8673849
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RocketRaccoon ( member #54620) posted at 8:04 AM on Monday, July 12th, 2021

Apologies for the slight t/j in advance:

@guvensiz

They're not actually that stupid of course, they just hope their BSs are stupid enough to believe them.

They can't possibly think that what they're trying to hide so much and crying out and begging for when it's revealed is unimportant.

Yeah, I know that. Was in a snarky mood, and could not help myself, as this minimization pisses me off to no end.

'Oh, Dearie, I shot at that person intending to kill him, but didn't manage to, so it's not all bad....'

There really is no cure for stupid.

end t/j

You cannot cure stupid

posts: 890   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2016   ·   location: South East Asia
id 8674701
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RocketRaccoon ( member #54620) posted at 8:16 AM on Monday, July 12th, 2021

She claims that after she was found out by her siblings, her intention was to break up with her AP and to try and convince them not to tell me so she could move on and act like it never happened.

Yup, another typical reaction by WS. 'I was just about to break up with my AP when you caught me.' The WS blurts shit like that out to try and reclaim whatever iota of morals they have. Like the 'just sex' thing, it is just to try and make themselves look a little less shitty.

She claims that the only times she interacted with him in person was at work and that she refused any advances made by him.

The problem you have here, is that it is a claim from an untrustworthy source.... so, your information is already unreliable.

The very fact that they still have interaction means that the A may not have ended. ANY form of interaction means that there is still contact, which can reignite this unrequited lurve the star-crossed lovers have for each other.

You cannot cure stupid

posts: 890   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2016   ·   location: South East Asia
id 8674704
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