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Day 3 since found out - absolutely crushed, can't eat or sleep

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Anna123 posted 4/11/2021 10:54 AM

One more thing. I wouldn't share what you are learning here with her at all, just in case you feel the urge to point anything out.

She is one of the more 'open' cheater types at the moment. That makes it so much easier for you to see the truth, as in her clearly stating the choice is between the city and OM, with no mention of you OR THE KIDS.

As a fellow mother, women that do this are beyond my comprehension. She is just leaving the kids with you while running off. Beyond words.

Take care of yourself, you are on your way to sorting this out and things will be better what ever path you choose.

Wanttobebetter posted 4/11/2021 11:21 AM

OP - Sorry you find yourself in this situation. Like your WW, you do have choices but each comes with its own challenges.


I don't want to say divorce now but if you want to give her the gift of R, consider the following:

A remorseful WW doesn't need her BH telling her to end the A. They do it on their own volition.

A remorseful WW does the chasing of the BH if they truly wanted R, not the other way around like what you were planning to do. Read around, you will find many WWs who fit this description but your WW isn't one of them.

my fear is that I move up there, realize after a few months it's not what I thought it would be and want to come back, but by then it's too late, you've moved on, and you won't want me.

The above tells me you are the fallback safety net as many refer to as plan B. Wanting to live in the country maybe one of the reason but I suspect wanting to live in the country with her AP is the main reaaon. She has been test driving the other relationship.

Her vibe, only based on your post about her actions, just doesn't sound like she is committed to you or the marriage.


Again, you have the path of D and R but R would require two committed partners to make it work. At the moment, your WW is no where near committed.

Sending strengths.


fareast posted 4/11/2021 11:32 AM

decaynus:

Very sorry you find yourself here. Strength to you and your children. You have received some great advice. Just my perspective, and it has probably been mentioned, but your WW is not being honest with you about her reasons for cheating. We all have things in our marriage that we are unhappy with and we could obsess over. But your WW did not cheat because she was unhappy living in the city, or a desire to move to her hometown. That is just a defensive rationalization she tells because she canít be honest with you, her father or herself. This is very typical.

In my opinion your WW cheated because she wanted to do it. Period. She was infatuated with the AP. She enjoyed the excitement, escape and fantasy of sneaking around. Period. Do not accept any excuse or blameshifting.

Her infidelity may be a dealbreaker for you, and that is fine. Then you only need to sort the legal ramifications of separation or divorce. But if you are unsure, which is normal, then detach and take care of you. Always value yourself. Take care of your health and be there for your children. If your WW wants to try and begin to rebuild or recover your M, she has to start by being brutally honest with herself and you. She cheated out of pure selfishness, fantasy and lust. Period. To demonstrate this level of honesty and humility with you as a BH will be very difficult for her. But it must be done. Good luck.

decaynus posted 4/11/2021 13:26 PM

Thanks again for more great messages and advice.

Some things I can't get out of my head, you can hopefully help with.

I've suffered anxiety/depression on and off for years. Sometimes I've had a very bad year, and other times a very good year. I have mostly been very good for the last 2 years. But a lot of this stems from my inability to let people get close to me. I've been seeing a therapist for nearly 3 years and I read a lot of books on this stuff, articles, podcasts etc. I've been absolutely committed to healing myself from the things in my childhood that programmed me this way.

Sure there's been many times I've asked myself "is she the right person for me?" And the answer has always been yes. But it has been a long and hard road.

I also have elderly parents that in their old age have become quite suffocating. They live close by and they want to see us at least once a week mostly. My WW has had trouble dealing with the smothering, as have I, and it is hard to deal with it without hurting them (and I have tried.) It causes a lot of distress between me and WW, but I always ask her if we moved to her hometown, wouldn't she be wanting to see her family regularly too? After all, she wants to move there to "be closer to her family."

Lastly, I'm a city guy and IT professional. She comes from a place where most guys are laborers or unskilled. When she met me she told me I had the smoothest hands she'd ever seen. I often wondered why she wanted to be with me instead of someone more outdoorsy and practical around the house, like the people she grew up with.

When we met, she pursued me HARD. I resisted for 3 years. She eventually wrote me a letter saying that if we couldn't at least try a relationship then we could no longer be friends. I didn't take this bait at that time, but eventually I realized I had feelings for her and we started a relationship (now 15 years ago.) It was early on that she started talking about moving to the country, and I told her that the city was where my life is and that wasn't going to change any time soon. She told me as long as she's with me, the city will be ok. But her desire to return home has grown over time.

So what I'm wanting to say is... all I've heard from her so far about why this cheating happened is: I didn't want to move to the country, my parents are smothering, my anxiety/depression has been hard to deal with as a spouse, I'm not handy enough.

And this is why she is now in her hometown with her sister trying to figure out what she really wants. A life in the country without me, or whatever else.

I of course realize this is now out of the question anyway, given what's happened.

Based on how the conversation between them trailed off in the days before I discovered the affair on messenger, I'm pretty sure the A is more or less over. I can tell he was already bored. Her messages were way too needy. You could see she was caught up in the thrill of it all, and he was quite matter-of-fact. So I don't think I even needed to send the message asking her to end it. It was probably already over. In her screenshot to me of the NC her message aligned with the last message I saw when I discovered the conversation.

Lastly on divorce. Where we live you must be separated for 2 years before you can divorce. But I am making plans now for how a separation will work, particularly when she returns home. She will need to sleep in the guess room, and I will be very business-like with her, until she can find somewhere else to stay. There will be no physical contact with her, and no reassurances of absolutely anything. My anger towards her for what she's done to us is really starting to simmer now.

And yet, just when I feel like my anger is keeping me going, I suddenly get a sinking sadness, realizing our life as we knew it is now over.

[This message edited by decaynus at 1:35 PM, April 11th (Sunday)]

BlueRaspberry posted 4/11/2021 13:59 PM

decaynus,

If you need to be separated for two years before you can divorce, you should file ASAP. You can always stop the divorce during those two years and that should be more than enough time to determine if you are willing to reconcile with her.

Follow you lawyer's guidance, but it seems like you should file for divorce and have her sign a separation agreement that includes child custody arrangements, child support (probably only necessary if one party has more than 50% custody), living arrangements (she should get her own apartment), division of any jointly owned property/assets, etc. If she isn't already working, she needs to start supporting herself by getting a job. You should not be bankrolling her or providing her with babysitting services while she is separated from you and likely continuing her affair(s). Do not be surprised if the current affair is over and she takes up with another "country" man. I also wouldn't count out the possibility that this is NOT her first rodeo with respect to infidelity.

Freeme posted 4/11/2021 14:22 PM

So what I'm wanting to say is... all I've heard from her so far about why this cheating happened is: I didn't want to move to the country, my parents are smothering, my anxiety/depression has been hard to deal with as a spouse, I'm not handy enough.
These are things you can be frustrated with. Things you can seek IC for. things you can discuss with your husband. These are not reasons to cheat, to put your kids through a divorce, to put your husbands health at risk.

She's a SAHM of three wonderful children. Lives in the city but close enough to her family for visits, financially secure... it sounds to me like she was living a great life...and she's fishing for excuses. It's important to know that you did nothing wrong.

She chose this guy based on his location? That's really weak criteria. She's living in some la la land. She needs to grow up. She has three young kids. She's a mother... and yet she's homesick?

I grew up near the beach. sure I've love to live near one but I certainly wouldn't put my marriage and my kids through hell so I can wake-up close to the shore. Sorry, but her selfishness really gets me angry for you.

If you need to be separated for two years before you can divorce, you should file ASAP. You can always stop the divorce during those two years and that should be more than enough time to determine if you are willing to reconcile with her.
I'd like to second what the above poster said. I know you don't want to divorce but you also don't want to live in limbo forever. If you move forward on seperation she is going to have to make a decision quickly and really put in the work to win you back if you go that route.... I just don't want her to spend this time as a "vacation."

[This message edited by Freeme at 2:26 PM, April 11th (Sunday)]

DIFM posted 4/11/2021 14:30 PM

So what I'm wanting to say is... all I've heard from her so far about why this cheating happened is: I didn't want to move to the country, my parents are smothering, my anxiety/depression has been hard to deal with as a spouse, I'm not handy enough.

decaynus, you have to get comfortable with the real reason sooner rather than later. Those that cheat have broken character flaws that make them unsafe and good candidates for being casually disloyal. There is a fabricated "reason" in every marriage to use as a scapegoat for cheating. She did NOT NOT NOT cheat because she wanted to move to the country and you didn't. She cheated because she was comfortable with very, very loose or non existent boundaries. She cheated because she either never had, or lost commitment and loyalty. She cheated because she was more important to her than her family. She did not cheat because of frustration over not moving to the country. That may be a reason to be unhappy or even angry, but it is not the basis for bad character decisions.

Do NOT take lightly the unsafe nature that she poses to your health and happiness. Unless she owns her lies and deceptions without association with anything in the M, becomes empathetic and contrite, gets individual counseling to get to the source of her broken character, you should think twice about rationalizing her reasons for cheating.

decaynus posted 4/11/2021 15:17 PM

Thank you, everyone. This thread has been a godsend.

goalong posted 4/11/2021 15:21 PM

She has just sent me another message saying she is feeling sad and wishes she was cuddled up with me but she's afraid to come home.

the cheater needs to know the spouse still care to enjoy cheating. Do not supply it. As it says many affairs also end with the end of the marriage.
People change. So she has changed or obsessed with the OM who knows how to feed her insecurities. As usually happens she may have already told him what is "wrong" with the marriage. So all he has to do is tailor his responses to fit to her complaints . Since she did not listen to you and went out your response should be to do your other things even better and hold your head high (though you are emotionally suffering) It is sexy to keep the head high in spite of adversity.

nekonamida posted 4/11/2021 15:22 PM

Based on how the conversation between them trailed off in the days before I discovered the affair on messenger, I'm pretty sure the A is more or less over. I can tell he was already bored. Her messages were way too needy. You could see she was caught up in the thrill of it all, and he was quite matter-of-fact. So I don't think I even needed to send the message asking her to end it. It was probably already over. In her screenshot to me of the NC her message aligned with the last message I saw when I discovered the conversation.

Be very careful with this. It's what you WANT to be true. Even if you're leaning towards D, the idea of her not going back to OM is appealing. But unfortunately, this is not what the rest of the evidence that you have suggests:

- Her saying she needed to talk to him when you confronted her about NC the first time meaning she planned on contacting him.
- Her sister refusing to answer where she was. There's no good reason for her not to say, "Yes, she's here," before telling you to talk to her unless she wasn't with her sister when you reached out to her.
- Her family and sister being accounted for without your WW. Makes no sense that WW wouldn't join them unless she was too busy doing something else.

If she was with OM, she wouldn't need to message him. If she got your ultimatum text while sitting next to him, it would cost her nothing to send that text to him with his knowledge because it buys her more time to figure things out. If she was just lounging around at her sister's house, she would have called you by now. If she cared about saving this marriage, she would be home by now. Actions speak louder than words and all her actions have been focused on herself and staying in her hometown. Not on you, your family, or your marriage.

When she comes home, if there is a possibility of R, you might want to think about having her take a polygraph because you deserve the truth about what has happened this weekend. It will blindside you later if you truly believe she did not spend this time with OM and you find out she did. Her sister will cover for her so I don't think she will tell you the truth. If you know someone else who may have seen her and would be honest, try calling them. Try calling them now before she gets back.

For yourself, keep that lawyer appointment. You don't have to file but it may be beneficial to given the 2 year waiting period. You can call it off at any point if you decide to R. At least see where you stand and what the pros and cons of filing vs not filing would be. Get into IC. You will need help navigating this and sticking to your boundaries to not "pick me" dance. It will be harder if she only puts some effort in as opposed to no effort at all because you will start to get hope for an outcome that isn't going to happen. She needs to be 110% committed and accepting of full responsibility, willing to drop moving altogether, and making efforts to fix this or she needs to stay gone. Half-assed attempts need not apply and so far that's what you're getting from her.

Marz posted 4/11/2021 15:28 PM

Youíre getting a boatload of:

Blame-shifting is when a person does something wrong or inappropriate, and then dumps the blame on someone else to avoid taking responsibility for their own behavior.

You didnít make her cheat. That was a decision she mage because she wanted to.

[This message edited by Marz at 3:30 PM, April 11th (Sunday)]

nekonamida posted 4/11/2021 15:30 PM

She has just sent me another message saying she is feeling sad and wishes she was cuddled up with me but she's afraid to come home.

I'd like to add that she is preemptively blaming you for why she's not home yet. You've made it very clear - you want her home. She knows she's making it worse by not being there so she makes it your fault for being "scary" despite you literally being one of the calmest BSes on this form so far. You deserve to let your pain be heard. Your feelings of anger are valid. She betrayed you. She can deal with the consequences. Statements like this are how DARVO (Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender) start. Instead of you being the victim of her betrayal, suddenly she's the victim of your anger making you feel like you have to rugsweep your feelings for her sake when instead she should be behind over backwards to win you over.

Don't listen when she says things like this. It's manipulation. It's meant to make you feel bad and question yourself. It's meant to take the focus off of you and how you've been wronged and place it on her. Don't play along.

nekonamida posted 4/11/2021 15:33 PM

One more thing - what if you got a text while out with family or friends that your marriage was imploding? Would you hem and haw, continue your weekend out, and go radio silent for hours or would you drop everything and rush home? I'm guessing it's the latter. So why do you think she's taking her sweet time to get around to dealing with this?

Anna123 posted 4/11/2021 16:12 PM

One more thing - what if you got a text while out with family or friends that your marriage was imploding? Would you hem and haw, continue your weekend out, and go radio silent for hours or would you drop everything and rush home? I'm guessing it's the latter. So why do you think she's taking her sweet time to get around to dealing with this?

Good question!

Decaynus: Others have pointed this out but I just want to chime in on the fact that all of the self improvement issues you brought up, great, you can work on it, but these are not something that makes otherwise good trustworthy partners go out and screw around, and also leave the children while doing it. Not related. This stuff can get to us BS's but most spouses don't run out and cheat when their partner is dealing with issues. Who knows what she has thrown into the mix of your marriage that has exasperated your moods. You sound very even-keeled to me.

DanielJK posted 4/11/2021 16:42 PM

Nekonamida is spot on with the DARVO call.

Man, I didnít even see it and it was right in front of my eyes. This is how frustrating communicating with a cheater is...you're being manipulated and don't even know it. I mean this in regard to most BSs (I least I can say I am guilty of it). You find yourself in a rabbit hole and don't remember how you got there. It sucks.

Cheaters are grand masters at obfuscation.

Stand your ground.

It is a sick, twisted mind that believes that your reaction to her wicked, awful, immoral behavior is the problem. Do you see how sick that is? It's not her disgusting behavior, it's your reaction to it that is the real problem.

That's some impressive mental gymnastics right there.

[This message edited by DanielJK at 4:45 PM, April 11th (Sunday)]

decaynus posted 4/11/2021 17:26 PM

I'm so thankful I found this forum and for all your messages.

Since I started the 180 she has become the chaser. I'm proud of myself for being assertive and taking control of the situation.

Her Dad called me and he was crying, he is so upset and disappointed with her.

I've told her she needs to get herself back here, face her responsibilities as a mother, start making some decisions on living arrangements and how she's going to support herself financially. I've told her while she's up there trying to figure herself out I am down here running a household, looking after 3 worried children, and dealing with the end of my marriage.

Her response... you told me you'd give me all the time I need and it's only been 2 days. Now you're saying you want to move on and don't want to try and sort things out?

I said... there's nothing to work out. only when you've done a LOT of work on yourself could there be any chance of beginning reconciliation. But I will probably have moved on by then.

I hope she is suffering now that I'm turning the tables on her.

I also contacted the partner of the OM and told her everything. She was totally shocked. She said they've been trying to reconciliate over the last month. I said to her "my wife is living in some kind of fantasy with him" to which she said "wow she and I have different ideas of fantasy."

[This message edited by decaynus at 5:58 PM, April 11th (Sunday)]

This0is0Fine posted 4/11/2021 17:27 PM

I get so angry every time I read a thread like this. They are more common than you think. I feel like somewhere in the healing library is a "fill in the blanks" that your story follows to a T.

Sorry this happened to you. You have gotten a lot of good advice so far.

My tiny bit to add to this is that love is not your friend here. Love is seldom used when reinforcing good decisions. It shouldn't be, but often is, used to justify bad ones.

I know this is the most emotional time. Your heart and head are being torn apart. Take good care of yourself. Eat, drink water, try to sleep. Talk to your friends about it.

Mene posted 4/11/2021 17:44 PM

Always remember this when you have doubts:

YOU CAUGHT HER!

She would have continued this affair as long as the AP and her wanted to and she most likely would have moved on to another AP.

She should be moving mountains to give you the indication she wants to R.

BlueRaspberry posted 4/11/2021 18:04 PM

decaynus,

Wow. So she says

"you told me you'd give me all the time I need and it's only been 2 days. Now you're saying you want to move on and don't want to try and sort things out?"

It is all about her. Nothing about how you are doing, how you are feeling, how your kids are doing and what she can do to help you heal and/or feel safe.

She is still in the affair fog and likely only interested in coming back since the OM has lost interest. You are Plan B. If he was still interested, she wouldn't be talking about sorting things out with you.

BlueRaspberry posted 4/11/2021 18:04 PM

decaynus,

Nice job informing the partner of the OM. He decided to insert himself into your marriage and this is part of the price. Not only that but it is the right thing to do for the partner of the OM> Its always good to shine light on bad behavior...

[This message edited by BlueRaspberry at 6:09 PM, April 11th (Sunday)]

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