Newest Member: AcesEights

Reconciliation :
Why do I keep willing to be walked over

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 Lostlife90 (original poster new member #70715) posted at 7:07 PM on Saturday, October 10th, 2020

Thank you for everyones advice. I been thinking about it over the days as I read everyones input. I know the right decision here is to leave and start over but I just cant seem to do it. The thought of leaving makes my body feel weak. I have a major exam coming up. I thought once she had left and I got everything back together, I wouldn't ever hesitate to leave again if things didn't go the way I wanted them to, but here I am again, stuck in the cycle.

My family is really upset with me now too. They don't like her anymore and they want me to end things because they say, we cant see you go through this over and over. Why are you being so weak is what my sister said to me. Its not like there arent other girls you can date and get married to.

I know all of these facts internally and I know they are rational. This isn't even my first time going through this with a girl. My HS/university g/f did the exact same thing to me, cheated around the 5 year mark, and then her sister told me that shes cheating again, and I still remember that day so vividly. I just said "i told you, you do it again, and im gone" and I blocked and deleted her from everything. I never even gave her a chance to try and explain herself, i was just gone. I was also much younger then, around 20-21 years old.

Im not sure what I expect more here from you guys. I think I've been treating like like I do with everything else, that hey, if you work hard, you'll get somewhere, it has worked out for me in all other regards but I guess with relationships, there are some things that just arent in your control. I really didnt want to go though this again. I even told my current fiancee that if she ever wants someone else to just tell me first, I dont want to go through that again.

I stopped going to IC as it was getting to expensive but I might go again to try and get my head around things, shes also not in IC at the moment, we both stopped it together as we started being able to just communicate with each other but that went to shit now too. I dont feel like I can talk about my feelings with her, because whether she admits it or not, she feels like "her mistakes are never gonna leave her". I know mentally shes unhealthy as well. My feeling was, if we got married, and moved away somewhere to start fresh, we both can get a fresh start and work on our relationship & careers together in peace.

I talked about all this with my best friend and he said to me, I know that you aren't the type of person who can just give up on her. So he said to do this instead. Just work on yourself and distance your heart and mind slowly, the rest is up to her. If she loves you, she will put in effort to get closer to you and make things work, if not, then it'll hurt a litle less if things take a turn for the worse. I discussed this with my dad as well and he said he thinks thats reasonable.

What do you guys think?

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nekonamida ( member #42956) posted at 12:34 AM on Sunday, October 11th, 2020

Thank you for everyones advice. I been thinking about it over the days as I read everyones input. I know the right decision here is to leave and start over but I just cant seem to do it.

Change this immediately. You CAN walk away from this. She is not holding a gun to your head. You may have to make some changes. You may need to let go of some material possessions. But you CAN do it. Stop telling yourself the lie that you're not capable of it. Once you stop paralyzing yourself with negative talk, the way forward will become more clear. You will be able to see more options that are only obscured to you now because you're not looking for them.

I talked about all this with my best friend and he said to me, I know that you aren't the type of person who can just give up on her. So he said to do this instead. Just work on yourself and distance your heart and mind slowly, the rest is up to her. If she loves you, she will put in effort to get closer to you and make things work, if not, then it'll hurt a litle less if things take a turn for the worse. I discussed this with my dad as well and he said he thinks thats reasonable.

I think that if you take his advice given where you are today, you will likely be back here stuck in the same place 5 years from now.

You need IC with someone who is pushing and questioning you to move you forward. You need to stop saying "I can't/I won't" and start saying, "I can/I will". This IS working on yourself but it's doing so in a way that is focused on the only path available to you - getting out of infidelity and later on, preparing yourself for the first ever healthy adult relationship in your life. That could still maybe be one with her if she manages to get it together and get some IC herself but you need to be okay walking alone for a while no matter what she does or doesn't do.

posts: 5065   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2014   ·   location: United States
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crazyblindsided ( member #35215) posted at 5:22 PM on Sunday, October 11th, 2020

If you are going to detach and wait and see if she wakes up I would give it a time limit and tell her if things haven't changed in (insert your time limit) then you will end it. When you realize that staying with her is only hurting YOU will you advocate for yourself.

fBS/fWS(me):48 Mad-hattered after DD1
XWS:51 Serial Cheater, NPD tendencies
Together 25 years, Married 19
DD(18) DS(15)
DD1 (2008) COW, DD2 (2012) MOW, False R (2014) Same MOW. DD3 (2019) Webcam girl

posts: 8080   ·   registered: Apr. 2nd, 2012   ·   location: California
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 Lostlife90 (original poster new member #70715) posted at 10:10 PM on Monday, October 12th, 2020

I spoke to her again last night about this because I feel like I've fallen into this depression again. So she can hear it in my voice and see it in me too. Couldnt eat, couldn't sleep, wasnt making it to work on time. Just falling apart really.

She said she was gonna be blunt with me and said "We were supposed to take this time to work on ourselves, not just be stuck having the same conversation over and over again, I love you and care about you and I decided to stay because I want to be with you"

She also told me yesterday that, she doesn't think we are in any place emotionally to get married right now. She said trying to get rid of insecurities is not a reason to get married, we should do it when we feel comfortable in the relationship and ready to do it. I agree with her. Since we still have fights about her A almost on a monthly basis, just the little things get to me. I want her to put in more effort into me and our relationship, she thinks she's doing all that she can.

I tried to explain to her that, her saying no to getting married even when everything seems to point that its the right next step to make, makes me feel like im being played with again which is why I feel like im back in last year when i discovered the affair. I cant get my head around this.

I've gotten really great advice from everyone here which is why I continue to post because it makes me feel a little better to read your responses to calm my mind.

Last night she left off saying she believes in us and believes we can do this. I just cant seem to trust anything that comes out of her mouth. I feel like my head is being messed with again. I feel like im being gas-lit but I have no proof. that is why my IC said too, she said you have alot of assumptions but theres nothing that shows shes messing with your head. I started IC last week to try and get ahead of this before I ruin myself.

Everyday I'm battling inside on whether to just walk away or stay. I think about how things would be better to just start over in peace without all this worrying about who shes seeing and whether she even loves me. I really feel like mentally I am gone. I was doing fine before this, its just after the said no, I feel like everything is gone to shit.

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The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 9:09 AM on Tuesday, October 13th, 2020

work on yourself and distance your heart and mind slowly, the rest is up to her.

Excellent advice!

You are trapped in a warp or unending cycle. You are over-analyzing everything (which is normal by the way). You are trying to make sense if it all when there his no sense or logic to an affair.

Stop having these conversations w/ her that do nothing to help you. Stop trying to “fix” it. I know the position you are in. I was there myself. His affair consumed me.

Until the day I decided he had to “fix” things. Not me. Luckily for me he did. But if your GF doesn’t do that then you know she’s not the person for you.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

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KingRat ( member #60678) posted at 9:15 PM on Tuesday, October 13th, 2020

I think she is being honest with you. I think her blowing hot and cold, the distance, and the general uncertainty surrounding the situation has created a limerent cycle that is being confused for love. This is why you are fixated on this particular girl to the exclusion of others. The "she loves; she loves me not's" sets the ground for the dragon chase. The despair that sets in when she blows cold is overcome by the flood of euphoria-causing brain chemicals along the reward pathway when she triumphantly returns. The brain makes a connection between the activity and reward and will repeat the behavior causing you obsession and preoccupation.

This is very similar to physiological processes felt during an addiction or even an affair. The distance allows for many fantastical elements to fill in the gaps and aids in putting this romance on a pedestal. Is she just dragging her feet and pulling you along because you are there and she is inconsiderate or is her intentions pure but the world is conspiring to tear apart star-crossed lovers? The information you are storing is largely assumption based on cognitive bias.

Some interesting comments.

I know all of these facts internally and I know they are rational. This isn't even my first time going through this with a girl. My HS/university g/f did the exact same thing to me, cheated around the 5 year mark, and then her sister told me that shes cheating again, and I still remember that day so vividly. I just said "i told you, you do it again, and im gone" and I blocked and deleted her from everything. I never even gave her a chance to try and explain herself, i was just gone

Was this girlfriend also blowing hot and cold? Did the end come when the second affair caused the fantasy bubble to pop?

I think I've been treating like like I do with everything else, that hey, if you work hard, you'll get somewhere, it has worked out for me in all other regards but I guess with relationships, there are some things that just arent in your control.

Thrill of the chase? You can have it but it then slips away?

Let me explain again, I actually have no issue with the fact that she isn’t ready to be married to me. What I do take issue with is that she’s saying why should she do this. When she broke up with me for the OM, she broke my heart, completely screwed me over, my family and put her own parents in a tough spot in our community and families, had 0 regard for anything else even her own self respect, all for WHATT, a fucking loser who still to this day hasn’t accomplished jack fucking shit with his life. Here I am literally, putting my life on the line especially during COVID times, and trying to get everything done ASAP even though all my schedules got delayed, all so I can have a promising career and I just want to use that to help people and make a good living so I can provide for her and my family. That’s not a sacrifice worth making to her?

It just doesn’t sit well with me that she can go above and beyond for OM, but here I am, saying hey, the man who you claim to love more than anything else in the world is struggling to secure a good placement because of visa issues, but you can’t actually make a decision just to help that situation. I also get how I can be sounding selfish right now, because I’m worried more about me and my career, but in reality l, I never see these things in a vacuum. I always tell her your success is my success and my success is your success. Together we can accomplish anything we like.

This sounds very "nice guy" and passive aggressive. You state that you have no issue of her reluctance to marry you and then proceed to go on for two paragraphs explaining why you are bitter that she will not. You cannot make someone appreciate a gift and get upset when you keep giving someone a gift you know they do not appreciate. You are putting too much of this on her. She is who she is and made it very clear that she is not ready to marry. If you choose to hang onto some hope crumbs she throws out, you have to acknowledge that is your choice.

You need to ask yourself if you truly love her or if she is some elusive fish that keeps nibbling on your line that you are intent on catching. Are you intent on catching her because she is a prize fish or simply a slippery bottom-feeder that you have built up in your mind?

ETA: From Wikipedia:

Limerence - an involuntary potentially inspiring state of adoration and attachment to a limerent object (LO) involving intrusive and obsessive thoughts, feelings and behaviors from euphoria to despair, contingent on perceived emotional reciprocation.

Cause:

Limerence develops and is sustained when there is a certain balance of hope and uncertainty. The basis for limerent hope is not in objective reality but in reality as it is perceived. The inclination is to sift through nuances of speech and subtleties of behavior for evidence of limerent hope. "Lovers, of course, are notoriously frantic epistemologists, second only to paranoiacs (and analysts) as readers of signs and wonders. "Little things" are noticed and endlessly analyzed for meaning. Such excessive concern over trivia may not be entirely unfounded, however, as body language can indicate reciprocated feeling. What the limerent object said and did is recalled with vividness. Alternative meanings for the behaviors recalled are sought. Each word and gesture is permanently available for review, especially those interpreted as evidence in favor of reciprocated feeling. When objects, people, places or situations are encountered with the limerent object, they are vividly remembered, especially if the limerent object interacted with them in some way.

The belief that the limerent object does not and will not reciprocate can only be reached with great difficulty. Limerence can be carried quite far before acknowledgment of rejection is genuine, especially if it has not been addressed openly by the limerent object.

So I think it is important to ask yourself when you are talking about this with other people, are you sifting for hope by analyzing her behavior or words despite her being very unambiguous in her statements?

[This message edited by KingRat at 3:39 PM, October 13th (Tuesday)]

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MangledHeart ( Webmaster) posted at 8:32 PM on Monday, November 8th, 2021

Reopened per request by Lostlife90.

Worry does not empty tomorrow of its sorrow; it empties today of its strength. ~Corrie Ten Boom

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irwinr89 ( member #42457) posted at 11:30 PM on Monday, November 8th, 2021

LostLife90, you don't need a marriage to define your success in life, it's just a social construct of civilization.
You are actually very lucky you didn't find all this out after being married....
My only advice if that if you ever do marry, her or someone else.... Please, please.... PRENUP!!

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Dude67 ( member #75700) posted at 3:38 PM on Tuesday, November 9th, 2021

OP - who in their right mind wound construct a building on a questionable foundation?

You’re young. To be blunt, this is simply never going to work out, whether it be a relationship or marriage. You don’t trust her snd never will - nor should you. She is simply not relationship material.

The sooner you realize this snd rip the bandaid the better.

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survrus ( member #67698) posted at 3:08 AM on Wednesday, November 10th, 2021

LL,

Just focus on becoming a doctor and making a lot of money.

What she does or does not do who cares.

You'll find someone once you're a DOCTOR.

If you dump her and she marries someone else she'll wish she was married to a DOCTOR!

If she comes back to you write her a referral to a Proctologist.

[This message edited by survrus at 3:10 AM, Wednesday, November 10th]

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longsadstory1952 ( member #29048) posted at 4:51 AM on Wednesday, November 10th, 2021

You are not married, yet you were seeing a counselor because of her cheating. Look at that fact coldly. If your friend was in this situation wouldn’t you suggest finding a new person in your life?

And now she’s all sooo undecided. Because she doesn’t want to deal with what needs to be done. She is showing you who she is. Believe her. The BS about working on herself is just shallow talk. How exactly is she gonna do that? Date other guys? Enter a nunnery? Institutionalize herself?

And she’s fighting with you over her fucking a loser?

Look. She is doing you a favor. The absolute worst thing you will ever do is marry this person. She is still living with mommy, can’t find a job, but still has the wherewithal to break a huge cultural taboo, and stick a knife in you. And your parents don’t like her. How many more stars need to align before you can see her as poison?

Don’t leave it up to her by speaking about ripping the band aid. You take action, tell her your done, and be done.

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HardKnocks ( member #70957) posted at 2:23 PM on Wednesday, November 10th, 2021

Great idea to get back to IC!

It sounds like you have a lot to unpack, lots of layers to work through, but you can do it. Totally worth the investment.

All the best.

BW 30-year marriage.
DDay2 2/20 5 month EA/PA
Recovering

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The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 4:39 PM on Wednesday, November 10th, 2021

If you marry her — THIS will be your life. Don’t think once you are married she will change and become a living and supportive spouse.

She is showing you exactly what to expect once you are married.

If you are not happy now, no guarantee you will be after you are married.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

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src9043 ( member #75367) posted at 11:33 PM on Wednesday, November 10th, 2021

The fact that she cheated on you speaks volumes. You are single and without any encumbrances between the two of you. Think logically, not emotionally. Why in the hell should you tie yourself to someone who has already cheated on you when you can so easily walk away with little collateral damage? She is sorry but not remorseful. Why do you want to sentence yourself to a life where you are her warden? I tried it and it doesn't work. It only causes more misery.

To top it off, you are still her plan B. She doesn't want to marry you because she is unsure of whether she wants to spend the rest of her life with you. To be blunt, she is waiting for plan A to show up. I suspect that she thought her OM was plan A, but evidently, it didn't work out.

I urge you to listen to your family. I wish my family was so forthright with me after my ex-wife cheated on me. They were all afraid to give me advice, fearing that I would hold it against them if I reconciled. So I bought another six years of misery until she cheated again and that was that.

It is time to think about what is best for YOU. Your girlfriend IS NOT best for you. She may push back hard if you try and break up with her because you are her plan B and plan A may never show up. Too bad, but don't sentence yourself to a life with someone who is not in love with you and is still looking for her knight in shining armor.

Become that doctor. Apply for U.S. Citizenship. Focus on your life and career. Don't waste any more time in this damaged relationship. You will be sorry if you don't get out now. I speak from experience.

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 Lostlife90 (original poster new member #70715) posted at 7:12 PM on Sunday, November 14th, 2021

Back Story: Not married, just engaged, families involved (cultural relations), her (29F), me (30M). ~ 9 years together, DD was in April 2019. Tried to reconcile in August/September of 2019 until today when things ended.

Well, its finally over. No more reconciliation even though I still want it to work.

I made this post a little over a year ago, to get your guys advice on how to make things work. I took the advice, realized maybe I was asking for too much with the visa thing. I gave her space. I told her I'll deal with the visa stuff, you just deal with what you need to do to make yourself ready to be married. We decided on a date for April, 2022 and decided that we would work on ourselves & our relationship during this time.

After this though, I won't lie, I did change, I pulled back a little bit, I felt I was too invested in it and she too little. I felt I was doing all of the work, while she was reaping the benefits of everything and still always getting her way with things. I made some petty mistakes (I stopped saying I love you because I just didnt feel it, I stopped trying initiate intimacy with her, I stopped trying to be sweet all the time) because I was tired of playing the pick-me-dance, where I was constantly just flocking my feathers to her and I just felt I kept getting degraded.

I would tell her my problems, we would have long hours and hours of discussion on the phone about things and only for her to not change the things she promised to change but instead told me that I'm making her feel like a villain, that when I try to express my pain and suffering to her she feels bad. She said oh I already apologized, I took ownership of everything, what more do you want from me? Why do you want to keep making me relive my dark past etc etc and then I stopped sharing that with her too.

Then things got really bad 3-4 months ago, when her dad invited OMs family over to their house for a family gathering and she said im gonna be honest with you, hes here and I just gave him a nod. I knew this might be a possibility but I didnt let it get to me and I was like thats okay, no worries, just enjoy your time. Though I did feel bad that her siblings kept up their relationship with OM, knowing everything that has happened between them (they are all childhood friends, but so am I lol - we lost people together, literally accident in a car that resulted in the loss of my mom and her brother), I thought that might have meant something to them.

Then a few weeks later, she sent me videos of OM hanging out with her family, then when I asked if thats OM in the video she was like "OMG I'm SO SO SORRY, I DIDNT WATCH IT BEFORE I SENT IT" but I find that a little hard to believe... but either way I was like hey thats okay no worries, and after that I just became a shell of a person, full of resentment, full of hatred and anger and I showed it in every interaction with her.

Until about 2 weeks ago when we were arguing about something so petty (the way we said good morning to each other) and I just wouldn't budge because I didnt want her to have her way and she just ended up saying I'm done and you're a mean person and im leaving. I just said okay and shut the phone. Obviously this had backlash from her family and mine, her dad spoke to mine and said that she claims I became a different person for the last 10 months, and my dad asked me if thats true and I said yes thats true, but only because ive been angry and hurtful that she hasn't made any real progress towards showing me that shes serious about our relationship other than trying to just tell me how great I am everyday, like I like the words but I would really like to see some concrete actions towards what ive been asking and been rejected for for the last 3 years (marriage). He said okay thats fine, he said if you feel in the wrong apologize to her and try to make it work.

So I called her, I said I'm sorry that I was behaving this way, I explained to her that I only did it because I thought if she saw I was pulling away maybe she'd attempt to get closer to me and shes like I know exactly why you did it and I understand I'm partly to blame for it too. So I thought okay, I guess we can continue working on our relationship but then she said "I dont want to ruin us anymore", and I was like ?? what does that mean, shes like I just think we need time apart to grow as individuals before we can work on this again, and I said okay I agree that we need to both work on things but I dont think it has to be while separate, we already are engaged, and I dont want that to end, especially because I have a fear that you're just kind of maybe trying to leave me again for someone else. Never the less, I kept my composure somehow and said okay thats fine, but I dont think I want to do that without being in a relationship so I blocked her and everything.

Then i spoke to her dad and he cried to me about how hurt he is that this relationship is ending (we've known each other our entire life, he said he cant picture a better man for her daughter than me) and I was like hey, look I'll do everything I can to make it work, I'll see if her and I can come to a good understanding, so I phoned her again, she said she was happy to hear from me and missed me, and I was like so does that mean we can be together and try to work on this together? her answer remained the same except this time shes like, can I have some time to think about it? I gave her a few days - in which we texted like how we used to when we were just kids flirting with eachothr and it felt good, and when I finally phoned her about what she wants, she said she had such a great time texting me like this and it felt so natural and genuine and shes afraid that if we put a label on our relationship, it'll ruin what we have going on, but I said, hey look, I dont want you to be someone you aren't with me, I won't put any expectations on you and you dont put any on me, we can continue to work on our relationship but just under the label that we are together, I dont feel comfortable doing this as "friends". She was very adamant that this would somehow ruin us, in which case, I've never really done this and maybe I was wrong but I felt she only didnt want the label on us because in reality, I think shes trying to pursue or has other options and doesnt want to feel like shes cheating again. I read in between the lines and decided that she should just go and do that, but I respectfully said that I love you, and that I hope things go well for you and this arrangement won't work for me and told her we'll just go back to her being blocked and she goes her way and I go mine.

This is what caught me really off guard, she said can you not block me? I asked why? she said "incase I change my mind" and that really hurt me, and really showed me that I really am just a back up / door mat to her, and nothing more than that. Just a filler until she has someone else she actually wants to be with and honestly guys it really hurts that I put so much into this, I gave it everything, even when I was feeling vengeful and resentful I didnt walk out because I just wanted her to just DO SOMETHING, JUST PLEASE SHOW ME SOMETHING, PLEASE.

Instead here I am, still feeling like I'm the one who messed things up because she has me thinking, hey this ended because you decided that in our ~ 9 year relationship, in the last 8-10 months, you lashed out on me.

I'm tired.

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nekonamida ( member #42956) posted at 10:29 PM on Sunday, November 14th, 2021

Block her on everything. Does her dad know about OM? If he reaches out to you again, tell him the truth. Tell him that you highly suspect that she has been cheating because every time she did this before, you caught her cheating. Then maybe he will back off and stop putting all of the responsibility on your shoulders to fix something she keeps breaking.

You have to move on for your own sake. No one is worth what she is putting you through. However much she loved you it clearly wasn't enough for her to remain faithful and want to marry you. That's the truth so accept it and take yourself out of the running of being her Plan B if OM/others dump her.

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Marz ( member #60895) posted at 12:37 AM on Monday, November 15th, 2021

I just wanted her to just DO SOMETHING, JUST PLEASE SHOW ME SOMETHING, PLEASE.

She already has. You just refuse to accept it.

Let her go.

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 Lostlife90 (original poster new member #70715) posted at 4:34 PM on Monday, November 15th, 2021

Yeah I mean its done now, Idk I feel really sad. Like really sad, I have residency interviews and im trying to keep up my mojo for them to present myself well and im doing a good job but its taking every little thing out of me.

I feel bad right now that maybe I messed things up? In the last 9-10 months me being distant and cold, like was that the reason she decided to just say fuck it? She is also experiencing a hard time right now with her grandma being deathly ill. Maybe it was just all too much for her? I cant seem to absolve myself of blame, I keep thinking something I did made all this happen.

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asc1226 ( member #75363) posted at 5:33 PM on Monday, November 15th, 2021

Maybe it was just all too much for her? I cant seem to absolve myself of blame, I keep thinking something I did made all this happen.

You didn’t make her cheat. You’re not the one who decided for her that she didn’t need to work on herself.

Thinking that you have any control over her decisions is a defense mechanism. It’s easier to think that there’s something you could’ve done or some proper combination of words you could have spoken that would change her. There’s not. She’s a cheater. She’ll be a cheater until she identifies her flaws and puts in the work to correct them. In all likelihood she won’t. She’ll move on and cheat on the next guy as well.

Keep her blocked on every avenue. Tell friends and family you don’t need any updates or messages passed on to you.

[This message edited by asc1226 at 11:34 AM, November 15th (Monday)]

I make edits, words is hard

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