SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

AH

Alot of things make sense now. The RO threat was motivated not for saving her marriage but for OM previous and current affairs. What did your WW expect? If he cheat with her, he will cheat on her!

It also explain why she stated that she was lying to her self, in addition to you. In reagard of lying to OM statement, seems like her planns to run away with OM, sffered 2 hits:

1 when OM didnt left OBS on her DDay, and aknoledge his love for your WW. At this point your WW thogth that OM just needed time to D, and came with the lie that you already know abd were solitimg ( if i remeber correctry), so she was waiting to drop the D bomb on you. It explaims her poor first approac , along with feelings and mometns fonding with him. thats why she didnt come clean

2 when discovered that she was not his first and only affair, WW was not loger his souldmate but another notch on his belt. It was the Game changer for her, switching love feelings for greaving and specialness for humiliation

Now she is starting to realizar that she trown her marriage, family and future away for a POS

I think is s very bad idea to let your WW know your sources. By keeping her in the dark about all you know, you will be able to verify if she keeps lying. Ask OBS if she would be affected if the recordimg is know by OM.

AH, how do you feel about this?

(Not a trick question)

My two cents - I'm glad you went.

She called him... the day.. she wrote.. that letter to you.

I'd want to know who called who too. She had your "Do you know what Do anything to save the marriage really means?" letter. It focused on HER

cheating and Lies.... Her marriage is crumbling round her and her focus is on calling to see if OM cheated on her??? If he lied to her??? I'm not sure if you had asked her to go NC yet but it's sure as H implied that when you are trying to save your marriage you shouldn't be contacting your AP.

- Again I feel like she does what she wants and then asks-for/manipulates-for forgiveness.

- I do find it interesting that after being called a cheap ass, bitch and other choice names she still chose to gaslight and blameshift immedatly after in her letter to you. That she was still able to write about how OM "appreciated her feminity...and treated her well..." while you neglected her...

You asked why I haven’t ended communication with him, I did I swear and blocked him. Last thing he heard from me was that I would put a restraining order if he ever contact me.

is what she told you after you got the letter. She left out the part about having that conversation that day and that it lasted 22 mins. I felt like she kind of used it as a "bragging point." He still want's me but I choose you... If I remember correctly show showed you the ignored text's but left out that she called him.

I would NOT tell your WW you heard this recording or that it even exists. You should never reveal your resources. This could also cause problems for the OBS and you kind of owe her. My guess is that she will continue to use a VAR to find out who Jenny is... or others. Also, you might feel the need to go this route at some point.

I would use this call as a way to find out if your WW is telling the truth about other things. Meaning if you ask her if she spoke with OM after getting the texts from him and she says yes and relays the conversation they had she might be willing to answer other questions truthfully. If she bold face lies and says they have had no contact... well you know what's going on.

I know you are headed toward divorce but I also know everyone flip flops at some point. Knowing some truth that your WW doesn't know you know or how you got it would be good.

[This message edited by Freeme at 10:32 AM, August 5th (Wednesday)]

Looks like she doubled-down and busted out. Sure makes deciding what to do a lot easier doesn't it?

So it looks like this is what happened:

- You sent your letter, she read it.

- She was shocked to learn her Love Of Her Life had multiple affairs and wasn’t M. wonderful, married to an horrible wife.

- She called to get explanations

- Was it Jenny? (Is there a Jenny working at your WW office?)

- No that’s only mistress #4, she will always be #1 !

- He tried to smooth talk to her, it didn’t work this time.

- I mean how dare he cheat on her!!!

- he revealed his true nature, she threaten him with a RO.

- Now that she woken up to reality, she’s trying to get you back (starting with trying to write the best reply possible).

I would use this call as a way to find out if your WW is telling the truth about other things. Meaning if you ask her if she spoke with OM after getting the texts from him and she says yes and relays the conversation they had she might be willing to answer other questions truthfully. If she bold face lies and says they have had no contact... well you know what's going on.

This without doubt

AH. I’m sorry you were betrayed yet again.

The meeting with the church group seems more like an intervention for an alcoholic than support for a BH.

Do you have access to the cell phone provider web site? Most show all of the call information, specifically if the call was placed or received. That will show you who called who on the day of your letter.

AH

If it were not for the OBS you would still be clueless as to what your wife was doing. You OWE her the courtesy of asking her what it’s ok to disclose to your wife and exactly what. She is probably facing a big time fight with her scumbag husband and may need information from that VAR .

You have clearly stated your intentions . I would not play games with this Jenny bull shit. And the advice you need now should be coming from your attorney.

IMHO too much emphasis in many of the suggestions is on revenge.

Revenge is like urinating on your hands to keep warm in cold weather. It might offer temporary relief but tends to leave you with new and larger problems and even colder after ten minutes or so.

Many have stated you have two paths out of infidelity: R or D. Of the two D is the only one you can decide ALONE to follow. For R you need both parties to want R and to be willing to walk in sync. In my opinion two basics are needed to start reconciliation: there is NC with the AP and there is an openness for being truthful. If you have that then the rest can be worked on along the path to R.

You don’t have either with your wife.

Your wife was in contact after claiming NC. Your wife is not being truthful.

IMHO if you look over your two paths then there is a lot of blockage on R. So much as to question if it’s passable at all. As is then D looks a lot clearer.

The following might turn out to be the BEST advice ever offered on SI:

The absolute WORST advice to get and follow on an online forum is legal advice.

That applies for what I suggest too, so keep that in mind.

Divorce is a two-factored process. There is the emotional separation that you deal with, and there is the legal separation that you get the professionals to do. If you chose to tread on the path of D towards getting out of infidelity then GET A PROFESSIONAL GUIDE.

In other words: Get an attorney.

Some questions you need answers for:

1) Does infidelity factor in divorce in my state and if so then how?

2) What level and type of proof does the court need?

3) Is this that I have here enough or do I need more?

4) If I need more what’s the best way to get it?

5) Can I use the threat of filing due to infidelity to leverage a better settlement for me?

6) Is this separation agreement I have drafted enough? Would it be binding if I file for divorce after she signs?

I encourage you to talk to an attorney and get a CLEAR picture of what D would look like. I get a feeling you have some rosy “I get everything and she get’s nothing” view at the moment, when I think something closer to 50/50 is the real deal. It’s not a bad deal – it beats being in infidelity – but I think it’s always better to have a realistic view on what to expect rather than charge along blindly.

One common misunderstanding is that the two paths – R and D – run in opposite directions. In fact they run parallel for a long time before forking in separate directions. I think there are very few situations where both are totally closed to the BS. It’s only if the WS is determined to remain in infidelity where the BS has no choice but D.

When I discovered my fiancé’s affair I decided to separate. I chose the D path. For me at that time in that relationship it was the best decision. However until I reached that section where D and R no longer run parallel I always had the option to cross over. I decided not to, but when I was wallowing in my misery my logical-brain would sometimes overpower my misery-brain with “You are on the path you chose. You have options. Think the other path is any easier or better?” and I would realize that I was walking the better of two crappy choices.

Sort of like:

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone."

Can also be turned into:

"If, therefore, any be happy, let him remember that he is happy by reason of himself alone."

If you still want answers from her

Use this fresh information to your advantage in conducting the session à la Walloped

Remind her at start what's at stake for full honesty etc

Start with a few throw a way questions then ask about last contact

Slap her with the correct answers if she deviates from what you know inform her the next time she tries that the session is finished and divorce is the only option

Getting answers will help you cement any outcome you want going forward as most don't get answers and the mind rarely lets it go

Great advice from Bigger. Ask your attorney all those questions. Hopefully he/she is a shark

IMO you didn't learn much last night that you weren't already feeling in your gut.

Your wife's status as untrustworthy remains the same. IMO here's why:

1 - She is withholding that contact from you. IMO that's evidence that her attitude towards you and marriage is still very much in WW mode.

If you confront her, she'll say she didn't want to upset you vs her trying to save her reputation/marriage by stealing your right to control your life. Her needs are more important than yours.

Knowledge is power. Don't confront and never reveal your source of info.

2 - Since she's been ignoring his calls, it's not important who called who. What's relevant is that she 'accepted' his call (or initiated a call) in order to discuss his previous affairs.

Why is that important? Because it's evidence that she saw the OM as a potential plan B in event she couldn't convince you to remain married to her.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 7:04 AM, August 5th (Wednesday)]

Enough.

I'm really big on R and haven't said that on this thread. This is way beyond anything ANYONE can stand.

Your WW is such a liar and deceitful person. Lying, gas lighting, deflection, blame shifting.

Now we know why she took so long to respond to you. She had to deal with SCUM millionaire lover boy who made it clear she was a low cost pick up piece of ass.

Move to D and let it play out as it does.

Please tell WW NOTHING about "jenny" or anything else that will tip the hand of OBS. OBS still has to keep her detection in place so she can solidly wrap up lover boy piece of garbage, one of the worst pieces of shit I've ever heard written about.

DO NOT blow the cover of the OBS. She has been GOLD to you. Without her, WW would be banging POSOM POG ffff fat boy tonight.

I would definitely also advise to keep your lawyer up to date with any new information and acting on legal advice.

As I said earlier in this thread, there is no such thing as an amicable divorce since divorce is an adversarial process.

AH, cover your backside legally and play your cards close to the vest. Once sources and information is divulged, it can not be made secret again.

Time to be more devious than she was when deceiving you all these years. She's not your friend.

This does not preclude you from interrogating her for more information, just do not tip your own hand in the process.

Have you placed a VAR or a dozen yet? Have you taken action to split finances or at least put a sizable (no more than half) amount into an account she has no access to?

Allies, legal advice, information and resources are your friends at the moment.

Thankfully you have found a valuable ally in the OBS, keep in mind how much she has helped you thus far. Please reciprocate post haste should you uncover any information. It's just the decent thing to do.

Strength to you, your pain is immense but time is a physician in this regard.

Although I’m generally on the VAR bandwagon then if you decide to divorce you need to be extremely careful and totally aware of your state’s law on digital eavesdropping and expected privacy. Even if the vehicle is in your name and the home is yours then there is an expectation of privacy that limits what the owner can do, sort of like why a landlord cant install webcams in property he’s renting out.

This doesn’t really matter too much if a couple is considering or trying reconciliation, but if you have filed or started the process of filing and your WW finds a VAR in her car her attorney can use it to great advantage – for HER.

Once again: This is legal advice and therefore questionable. The ONLY right thing to do is ask an attorney.

Thank you Bigger for highlighting the possible legal implications for VARs as pertaining to being placed where can be undeniably claimed to be targeting AH's wife, but other pretexts may be manufactured for placing such devices in common areas in AHs property even if it is known that she makes phone calls there.

Again, it is always wise to defer to legal advice.

I want to thank everyone here that is supporting me during this difficult time, you guys are amazing, your experience and knowledge are diamond, there will be no R I'm determined more than any other time to file for divorce ASAP. last night was the last straw, I admit that part of me was holding back and hoping for miracles, I was somehow convincing myself to delay things and finding excuses not to go for it, if you know me enough you would know that this isn't me. Somehow last night I felt very good after my meeting with OBS, I actually felt the best since I found out, but waking up this morning I'm back to being upset. I can't do this any longer, I'm retaining the lawyer today and will file. I'm forever thankful for your assistance, you guys opened my eyes so wide, I'm pretty sure you understand how I feel about ending my marriage, how painful it is to give up on long term relationship. I'm sure I will be fine just not today.

to answer some of your question, the OBS doesn't mind if I tell my wife the source of my information, she is ahead of me in her D process. She put a var in his car just to confirm what she already knew. her in-laws were pressuring her to stay with him so she wanted another proof to show them.

you asked who call who, My wife who made the call it was clear that his phone rang but it was also clear that he had been trying to contact her, he was happy she "finally called him back," we do not know who the hell jenny is but who cares now? most likely another "cheap ass". the OM just turned 58 BTW, but still lives in his 20s I guess. he has 6 kids, 2 adults kids from his previous marriage and 4 with OBS, but OBS has been raising them by herself. he has been intimidating her and sometimes threatening her. even when she found out about his affairs. one of his affairs was with the wife of what was supposed to be his best friend from childhood.

OBS is a strong woman but she pulled up with this BS for too long, she has been working with a therapist for the last 2 years which helped her detach from the POSOM. she hired a spy just to confirm what she already knew not to save her marriage. other thing OM already knew that she was meeting with me yesterday. like I said it was an interesting evening, I saw how easy it is to cheat, I picked her up from her parent's house and drove an hour all the way to Baltimore for dinner, then brought her back to pick her car from her parent's house, it felt like if we were cheating on our spouses. what a fucked up world we live in.

luckily for me my business has slowed down due to lack of equipment. I guess the corona virus is affecting the productions of AC units. this will give me time to start the D process and take care of myself, it is time to dedicate time just for AHGuy

today is not a good day for me, but hopefully a new start. Again I want to thank every one of you for your support

Good Morning AH

With your mind made up to divorce, please fight for everything, you can always back up on anything. Try and find a way to save your property and business. If there is a way - do it. You do not need to leave her destitute in the process. The law will demand what is fair. Recover the financial losses due to her affair.

Again just like the OBS said you are a catch and moving out of infidelity with D is a good way to rebuild after the storm.

Now is the time for you to be selfish.

It is so sad she had to call him to confirm she was just a cheap ass and a B to him.

Have a good day AH

[This message edited by Organic2003 at 7:51 AM, August 5th, 2020 (Wednesday)]

I was going to try to tell you that if you are a believer the only way to make any R would be with God's help. BUT it looks like she is still not a good candidate.