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AH, you made up your mind into D, and it's totally ok. I juat would like to point sonething. your WW is in her hardest point in life, of course she cause it and of course it is 100% on her, never theless, she is not a monster, she is not evil...she is just very broken but stil is your kids mom. Most of all comments you can read here explain the worst case scenario, where she planned and hurted you on purppose. IMO the truth is in between, not what we have painted and neather what she is telling you. it doesnt mean you got to forgive her, or even be with her after D. it just gives a frame where you can see how broken and desperate she is!!! she is loosing everything that matters to her in front of her eyedms and tehre is nothing she can do about it. What I mean is for you to be kind and mercyfull with her, even she doesnt deserve it.

Most of all comments you can read here explain the worst case scenario, where she planned and hurted you on purppose.

It may seem like we’re being harsh. We are but for good empirical reasons.

It is a fact that she summoned him to her AP’s f*ckpad cabin to fix the heater so she could continue with the two year sexcapades. Then she and AP joked about how funny it was that AH had unwittingly helped them so that AP could make love to her like she deserved.

We also know she called AP to feel him out and see if her plan A luxe lifestyle dreams could be salvaged —

And she did this the same day she wrote AH the sob story blameshifting epistle.

Now those are just the things we know about empirically. It’s a very safe bet there’s a lot more: more cruelty, more disregard, more cake eating, more plan A/plan B negotiations.

Also she planned to leave AH high and dry just as soon as she could.

That’s all about as ugly as it gets. And about as wicked.

My wife who made the call it was clear that his phone rang but it was also clear that he had been trying to contact her, he was happy she "finally called him back,"

Maybe I'm getting this wrong, but didn't she promise to give you the number he was calling from to check to see if she called it? Like she had the number to his burner phone at some point?

I seem to recall that might be a part of that big email she sent, I could be wrong.

AHGuy, I don't know if you've ever mentioned it.. have you tried looking at call logs yet? I presume she must be using a corporate cell, but maybe not, who knows. It would be possible to cross check if need be. I don't think you really need to prove anything any more, but the big point you are going to confront her on is lying that she had gone NC with the POSOM, right? Having a call logged to the burner phone on the same day she claimed in writing to have been NC with him for a while pretty much conclusively proves the lying part.

Hey, look... you're on page 47 already! You might get the WestWay award for SI.com engagment. (joking, joking.. I know, not much is funny right now).

At least the hardest part-- deciding what you will actually do.. is over with. The next part isn't a cakewalk but you at least have a plan of action! Best of luck. I know you are doing the right thing now.

AH, you made up your mind into D, and it's totally ok. I juat would like to point sonething. your WW is in her hardest point in life, of course she cause it and of course it is 100% on her, never theless, she is not a monster, she is not evil...she is just very broken but stil is your kids mom. Most of all comments you can read here explain the worst case scenario, where she planned and hurted you on purppose. IMO the truth is in between, not what we have painted and neather what she is telling you. it doesnt mean you got to forgive her, or even be with her after D. it just gives a frame where you can see how broken and desperate she is!!! she is loosing everything that matters to her in front of her eyedms and tehre is nothing she can do about it. What I mean is for you to be kind and mercyfull with her, even she doesnt deserve it.

You got it all wrong. Nobody is painting her as some evil mastermind who was intentionally figuring out all the angles to hurt AHguy the most.

We see her for what she is: A shortsighted, selfish, immoral asshole who has no regard for how her behavior hurt her husband, her family, and ultimately herself.

She is losing everything precisely because she did not plan where her behavior would land her. She was just running with a fantasy where her rich boyfriend would whisk her away to a life of luxury leaving AHguy sitting heartbroken.

I get compassion, even for assholes, but this is truly a case of somebody getting the consequences they bargained for solely because of their own behavior.

***

What are we arguing AHguy should do? AHguy has literally done nothing to her! Should he hug her and hold her close and tell her it's going to be all right? Dry her tears? Should he tell her that what she did was not nice, but understandable?

Fuck that noise. She has to deal with her own mess.

AHguy - I will say this - it is not uncommon to discover that cheaters of both genders are not wound too tight. So at this point you might want to move forward quickly and dispassionately. Unstable people can make things hard - but you haven't done anything to exacerbate her obvious personal issues, so keep on keeping on!

[This message edited by faithfulman at 1:48 PM, August 6th (Thursday)]

Thumos

I should had been more specific,

I al just refering to her actions and motivations sice DDay.

Of course before, she was full Steam on A and a future toguether with OM.

My point is that at this moment, where D is going to happe, it is worth to start thinking on the better way to have a cordial and good relation with her WW, for their kids and grande kids to come.

AH is going through one of the most traumatic events in his life, and his WW too, even when she caused it.

She desever It? Not doubt! Did she caused? Absolutly ! It is AH role to meke her pay for It? Not at all!!! He must mover on on a cordial way for his kids on an impacteless D.

Sorry for editing, I am on my mobile and It is running on other leguage

[This message edited by Mrhealed at 1:29 PM, August 6th (Thursday)]

Also she planned to leave AH high and dry just as soon as she could.

Not so sure about this. Also, as noted, his wife seemed reluctant to call the POS back.

But it really doesn't matter.

A two year betrayal says to me that all love & respect for spouse, marriage, family and kids are gone. Permanently.

I remember when I caught my wife in betrayal #3. I drove back to the house, packed clothes, loaded them in the truck with a few other things and just drove away. Slept at work for a couple of weeks until I found a nice little studio house for rent with a view of Mt Adams and never looked back.

For me, this is the same. At first I thought a glimmer of R might be there but as this has unfurled, I just cannot imagine R with all of what has happened. I mean, f they worked hundreds of miles apart and hooked up a few timed per year, ok, that's one thing. But, for all intents and purposes she fully left him & the kids two years ago. She was no longer even a member of the family,

One last general thought for all, when God allows divorce, he does so due to the "hardness of our hearts". God also states, "I hate divorce". Still it is permissible in cases of continued adultery where the adulterer will not repent. That said, the Bible is also clear that a couple may separate without divorcing. Just wanted to clarify. Now, in the OT, adultery was a capitol offense (or could be). The reasons are obvious.

It sounds to me like your WW called to confront him about the other women. It also sounds like there had been some NC before that, so maybe you had a "partial truth" on that score.

I'm NOT going to try to talk you out of your D decision. I think it's probably the best decision for you, considering the length of the affair and you previous status as "one and onlys". Those are huge hurdles. Your WW has lied to you for years, cheated on you (and in so doing, abused you), she's attempted to manipulate you through your church and within the family. She has carelessly thrown away what was special and irreplaceable between you. But... she's still not any worse than any other garden variety cheater. They pretty much all do this sort of shit.

As you proceed forward though, I think it's likely that you'll be dealing with a very broken, pitiful WS. She's losing everything; her husband, her family dynamic, the respect of her community, half her assets, etc. She's also FINALLY found out that she was being used, nothing but "cheap ass" for the POSOM after him lovebombing her for years. I think it's likely that you'll continue to see tearful entreaties from her and possibly even threats of suicide. Take those threats seriously. It's unfortunate, but threats of suicide are common, and even though it's quite rare, occasionally one goes through with it. I think you're possibly going to need to strike a balance between getting what you need from the divorce and showing some compassion about it. As your STBX deteriorates, your children are likely to be caught up in growing sympathy for her situation.

With you decision made, I think you can soften up your 180, maybe let her feel like you've listened to her excuses, allow her to believe you'll still be "friends", encourage her to get some supportive therapy, and just in general sort of ease her through the process. Normally I wouldn't say these things... and if I'm reading her wrong, ignore what I've said... but if she goes particularly fragile on you, I think you'd do well to allow for some emotional support as she comes to terms with her losses. And of course, if you're not 100% sure of your divorce decision, you might even consider Discernment Therapy.

Again, I'm not trying to advocate for a different decision or anything like that. I just think you'd do well to be cautious so we can get everyone through this process in one piece.

Strength and healing to you.

@ChamomileTea

So beautiful..

This is what puts you on the opposite side of the spectrum – far away from cheaters and other character impaired individuals.

Me, I don't have this compassion, the same as you have. I don't forgive treason. But it doesn't mean I can't recognize it, get inspired by it, and grow. Many Thanks for all your posts.

One last general thought for all, when God allows divorce, he does so due to the "hardness of our hearts". God also states, "I hate divorce". Still it is permissible in cases of continued adultery where the adulterer will not repent. That said, the Bible is also clear that a couple may separate without divorcing. Just wanted to clarify. Now, in the OT, adultery was a capitol offense (or could be). The reasons are obvious.

Hardness of hearts is a reference to the fallen state of mankind as a whole, not to the "hardness of hearts" of betrayed spouses wanting divorce. Betrayed spouses' are loyal faithful and hardworking people whose hearts are broken, not hardened. It's clear when Jesus says "from the beginning it was not so." Every major theologian has taken it that way.

"I hate divorce" is often taken out of context, and frankly is often used as a bludgeon to guilt betrayed spouses who see very clearly that divorce is and should be a good option for them in a bad situation.

You have to read the whole verse. It was written in the context of men leaving their wives without cause and leaving them bereft. God hates divorce. He hates a lot of the imperfect things that have cropped up in this fallen world. He hates adultery more, clearly.

And as Calvin said, he gave divorce as a grace for the broken-hearted who have been victimized by adultery. It is seen as the best option in a fallen world dealing with the gravest of sins.

Not so sure about this.

Actually we do know AH"s WW did plan to divorce him as soon as she could manage it. She and AP discussed the ins and outs so to speak.

It is worth to start thinking on the better way to have a cordial and good relation with her WW, for their kids and grande kids to come.

AH should absolutely look for the cleanest and most amicable way to do this. If I haven't been clear about that, AH, I apologize. My recommendation to keep the 180 in place from a harder stance is not meant to be cruel, but rather to protect your heart as you go through the difficult process of divorce.

If anyone wants to try the Hosea's wife gambit, AH, I've got an answer for that one too. Seen and heard it all before.

That last bit of evidence from OBS really puts the nail in the coffin. Whether or not she intended to be in contact, it confirms a couple of additional betrayals that AH now has to deal with.

His WW broke NC with the AP, the same day she wrote him that sob story of a letter and, further exacerbated the situation by having the congregation manipulate him into not Divorcing her.

His WW in the same call, at least to me, confirmed that AP was plan A, and was hoping that she can latch back on to him, if not for Jenny. This confirms for AH that he was and has been plan B for 2 yrs.

AH, I know you're hurting right now, probably more than ever. Just know that this is your rock bottom. You will feel better, things will improve and your freedom will soon yours. It gets a lot better. At least now you know where you stood. Now, you know how to move forward. There is no more limbo.

Good luck on your journey thru D.

His WW in the same call, at least to me, confirmed that AP was plan A,

I agree, We always say on this site to not believe the cheater but I think in the case of this recording and anytime someone uses a VAR you hear the truth, what the Wayward really thinks. In this case you hear his WW trying to get back with the AP. This is what she wants. Anything after that is her second choice at best.

Hardness of hearts is a reference to the fallen state of mankind as a whole, not to the "hardness of hearts" of betrayed spouses wanting divorce. Betrayed spouses' are loyal faithful and hardworking people whose hearts are broken, not hardened. It's clear when Jesus says "from the beginning it was not so." Every major theologian has taken it that way.

"I hate divorce" is often taken out of context, and frankly is often used as a bludgeon to guilt betrayed spouses who see very clearly that divorce is and should be a good option for them in a bad situation.

You have to read the whole verse. It was written in the context of men leaving their wives without cause and leaving them bereft. God hates divorce. He hates a lot of the imperfect things that have cropped up in this fallen world. He hates adultery more, clearly.

And as Calvin said, he gave divorce as a grace for the broken-hearted who have been victimized by adultery. It is seen as the best option in a fallen world dealing with the gravest of sins.

I guess I studied Bible & Greek and Hebrew for nothing.

AH should absolutely look for the cleanest and most amicable way to do this.

Best way to go as she is apologetic and amiable. I would suggest to ire an attorney that will help the both of them thru the maze of paperwork... as opposed to just filing and serving her and create a hostile environment.

I want to thank all of you my SI friends, I wanna share with you what happened in details but I using my phone right now and I suck I phone typing so I’m only gonna give you summery, I also suck at writing in general I can talk for hours though but writing isn’t my forte, so please excuse me in advance . It’s a Headache for everyone involved and things turned out pretty bad. I paid my lawyer the retaining fees, he is already started filling up the forms., he gave me shit load of “homework” to do, forms about assets and some financial documents I need to provide, that’s so exhausting I rather be digging out tunnels through a mountain than doing this. I confide to my daughter told her everything she did all the confronting for me, it was a mistake I shouldn’t have got her involved in my shit, long story short she wasn’t nice to her mom she verbally attacked her and she is her mom now and told she will never talk to her, which made it even worse. My wife has hit rock bottom, to a point where I’m afraid she is suicidal, my sons had to take care of her last night and today her mom is with her. I saw my mother in law shortly this morning the look on her face said it all. My wife is insisting that she only called him for closure and she knew it was wrong to do it but she said it was never to get back with him. In a text she sent me yesterday she said that if I heard the whole conversation from the start it was clear that she called to confirm the break up and that it was him who was trying to convince her otherwise, she told me that it was wrong for her to call she realize that now and tatt no closure with him was necessary. She also claims that the OBS is looking for revenge and that she told her that she will make sure to ruin her life and career. I texted her back that this damaged our marriage beyond any repair and it is better if both of move on amicably, I told her we weren’t compatible, I wasn’t satisfying her need and her betrayal and disrespect shattered my heart. She said she would never agree to a divorce she never wanted it when she wasn’t happy in our marriage and she’s not going to accept it now when she’s the aggressor, she said she will fight till the end.

My lawyer still believe that a consensual divorce is the best option but wants me to give her a deadline and do not wait for too long, I’m gonna let her mom know that by the end of next week if she does agree I would have to file base on adultery.

So things are really bad at this moment, I am feeling bad for her but at the same time I’m disgusted by her. She is taking a sick leave and handed some of her immediate business to one of her colleagues, which tells me she plans to be out for a long period of time. I am making some arrangement so I can take a whole week off and maybe go somewhere away from this toxic atmosphere my brother suggested Florida but with the Covid I’m afraid I’ll take the virus with me to my parents.

OBS called to check how it went and to see if I found out about Jenny, she even offered financial help I said no.

Lesson learned never get my kid involved in my shit with my wife. I don’t wanna go back home right now I m with my brother an few bottles of a Mexican beer.

Once I’m in front of real keyboard I will give more details

Thomus, thank you very much you are an inspiration to me

I am non-religious and here is the what I believe is a reality-based point of view.

AHguy, don't try to "stick it" to your wife.

But you know what dude?

If you are feeling particularly bad at some stage and you have some salty words for her, or you get into an argument and you let her know exactly who she is and what she has done, well, you're human and it is totally understandable.

You don't have to meet the behavioral standards of Jesus or Buddha or whoever.

It's not your job, nor is it realistic, for you to swallow every bit of this pile of shit she has thrust upon you and temper yourself in order to be amicable at all costs.

Because that cost could be your health, such as an ulcer, heart, or mental problems.

Be civil as much as is realistic. But you don't have to be nice to her if you can't muster it.

It's okay to be a normal human and have normal human emotions and reactions, such as anger.

Take care of you. Take care of your kids.

Your wife can take care of herself, or seek out the support of her church, another man, her sister, etc.

Good luck brother.

Edited to add: I wrote this post before I saw your latest update AHguy. Your wife is not going to let this end peacefully. I don't think amicable is in the cards. She ain't quite right. Protect yourself, protect your kids.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 3:21 PM, August 6th (Thursday)]

Wow. What a shit show.

AHG, she would fight the D whether your DD got involved or not. Your DD deserved the truth about what was happening. Maybe not all the details but she definitely deserved to know what your WW did and why you're getting a D.

I hope you still have that recording in case you need to give it to your lawyer and dig up whatever else you can get for evidence. The email your WW sent you would be a good start. Put those in a safe place that she can't access.

Give her some time to process the D. You both need a spouse to love, respect, be true friends with, trust and have faith in. Those things simply don't exist. If they once did, they never will again. It's best for the both of you...

Consider talking to her mom. tell her these things. Some things can be overcome, but not this. Not two years of what she has done and only to end it when she was outed.

I think she will come around.

Wow. She didn't want a divorce when your marriage didn't meet her needs (subjectively), but she also doesn't want a divorce after she destroyed the marriage by stepping out for years and going out of her way to rub your nose in the shit sandwich (the heater).

She's got a lot of damned gall.