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Right on, Neko. This is what I was saying awhile back but you make it so much clearer.

Bluebox, I still say join Alanon and get IC for yourself so that you can take your life back and focus on yourself. This is your parents drama. I grew up in drama. It truly does get old and it's a deadend road.

I am happy for you see that your mother is going to be better than fine and she is so strong! Good for her! Maybe now that her cheating husband is out of her life , she may find that she won't have as many reasons to drink her sorrows away anymore.

I will also say that Alanon had a way of numbing me to other's problems and issues in life. I don't mind helping others but there comes a time when the others need to help themselves, like your WF. He created this mess and now it is up to him to fix this mess, or not.

I sometimes think drama, chaos, fighting, anger and negativity makes some people feel alive. Without it, they find their lives are boring.

How are you doing Sweet Bluebox?

Hey everyone, bit of an update. So my boyfriend contacted my dad to ask him to get in touch with me as i was spiralling. My dad responded with an essay of whats gone on etc, still denying what i believe, but that made my bf angry as he's seen evidence just as i have so had a go at my dad. Told him to get intouch with me straight away as i was non stop crying etc.

This caused my dad to feel threatened, he emailed me (finally getting in touch) explaining that I am still his daughter and always will be, that my job is safe etc. But that if BF threatens him again he will call the police... :( this then enraged my bf even more, as my bfs son is on a care plan with Social services and anything like that can cause all kinds of problems. BF didn't threaten my dad, just wanted him to see the urgency of my spiral.

But atleast it opened the door for me and dad. Saw him briefly on Saturday at a carnival BF and I had a stall at, so i just went over and hugged him. He said again my job is safe etc that everything will work out.

Saw my mum sat night and she's fine, happiest i've seen her in a long time. They still haven't spoken :( My dad is the lowest i've ever seen him, he's a broken man.

I'm in the office with him right now, and we're just working in silence, but atleast we are talking. Baby steps.

Don't think him and OW are seeing each other anymore, since all this came out i think they stopped everything straight away. I just wish he'd reach out and talk to my mum, as I know she'll be open to being friends going forward, but not until he puts some effort in.

I applaud your bf’s protective instincts, but it seems pretty clear that his further involvement is only going to make things worse, even for him. I hope he has a long-suit in restraint going forward.

Can you lean on your uncle for emotional support? He might be a better one to press your dad given his respected role in the family.

Has anyone asked about your evidence? Your dad seems to be counting on his denials to erode family confidence in your charges. At some point you mum or others may want to know what the actual evidence is. Have you thought about that?

You are a sweet soul embroiled in a horrid mess not of your making. Stay strong, and when the emotions are especially raw go outside and look at the sky; it always calms me down to see how huge and beautiful the world is, and what a small part of it I am.

[This message edited by Odonna at 12:00 PM, July 15th (Monday)]

Unfortunately not, my uncle wants nothing to do with my dad :( no one does except me, and my younger sister :( dont even know if my dads side of the family know they've separated either so my dad has no one. My sister said today not only did my mum leave all the gifts he's ever bought her, she also left their photos, and had ripped them all up :(

No one has asked to see any evidence, they know I have no reason to lie. But, they say it's irrelevant now, the thing that's hurting more is the fact he hasnt even tried to save his marriage. He hasnt phoned my mum, he text her when he realised she'd gone, but she didnt reply, and neither has tried to get intouch since :(

I am struggling, as is my dad. But I'll keep reaching out to him. He is poorly again, hopefully not as serious as a couple weeks ago though

Blue - stop trying to rescue your dad from his own bad behavior. Being there for him is way different than chasing him trying to support him when he's self-destructing. Think lifeguard with someone actively self-destructing in the water. instead, they wait until they've exhausted themselves enough that they can receive help.

you can't save their marriage - that is something they both have to want.

Be there for your dad, let him know you still love him. Remember though - he made his bed and he is still wallowing in it. Let him. He has to reach rock bottom before he starts to pull himself out of it.

The stress of trying to fix everyone is going to put you in the hospital. You can only control your own behavior. so be honest with your Dad - if he starts talking to you - you love him but you don't agree with how he is living his life - in regards to his OW and that you wish he would reach out to your Mum...but that you know HE has to make his own decisions.

I think your Dad is in shock. He NEVER thought your Mum would be strong enough to leave him. He NEVER thought his world would blow up and he can't bluster his way through any longer. He is still in the fog - and trying to figure out how to fix things so he has his cake and can eat it too. He is also probably ashamed of his actions or lack thereof...Talk to him about going into IC. If nothing else it will help him deal with the fallout of his actions.

I also urge you to talk to someone or join Alnon. You need a support system outside of your family. Luckily your BF seems to be supportive of you. This situation is NOT of your making.

How is your Mum? Is she still drinking as much?

Hey everyone, just an update, my mum and dad are back on speaking terms, he has asked her to move back in, just as friends though. She said no. She is the one doing all the work with him, contacting him etc making sure he's okay - has been quite poorly again. But she's done doing the work now and is going to wait for him to contact her, let him do some of the work. My mum wants to remain friends with him, she has no desire to try save the marriage, she's happy to be out.

It seems the OW is still sniffing around, she's taken all her things from the office and i've not seen her, however she is still doing work for my dad as i've seen an invoice from her. My dad seems better in himself but still betrayed by me. He's told his mum finally about him separating from my mum and its clear he's been planting the seeds with his family since things started with OW. As his family haven't been surprised, he told his mum about OW - but only that she's a companion, nothing more, he's been lonely and now has a companion... :/ so still denying its anything more than friends!!

My mum phoned her sister in law (Dads brothers wife) that shes always been fairly close to and told them about his affair... all my mum said is that they didn't react how she expected - and this was before my grandma had been told. So i don't think his family believe the ins and outs of it all.

My dad is telling everyone i got the wrong end of the stick, all because of what's happened to me in the past its in my head and seeing things that aint there :/ yeah thanks dad. Nervous about seeing my gran anytime soon.

I'm glad its all out and off my shoulders, but i am disappointed in how he's still denying it all, and also how people have reacted or not reacted with some of them.

Well, you do have proof if it ever comes to that. I am so sorry that your grandma and aunt may be swayed by his story that it is all in your head. I can understand your trepidation about seeing them.

At some point you may want to say to your father that you do have proof (“remember that steamy story she wrote for you on the train, Dad?”) and say that you do not want to humiliate him by revealing that, but he has to stop humiliating you to the family by making you out to be a suspicious nut. You can pick something factual to say that won’t give away your access; something you could have found out several ways.

I am so sorry you are going through this. But I can hear your relief that it is all in the open now, and that your mum is handling it all so well. You are strong and brave and compassionate, so just keep that up!

[This message edited by Odonna at 8:02 AM, July 30th (Tuesday)]

Your Dad is looking for someone to blame - do not allow him to paint you as the bad person in this situation.

If your relatives on his side say anything, tell them the truth. Show them the proof you have. You do not have to shoulder the burden of your father's infidelity.

If your income was not so closely tied to him, I would suggest to you that you tell him exactly how much it hurts that he has done this after he saw what happened to you with your ex. Remind him that parents are supposed to build their children up, not tear them down. Since your income is tied to him though, just tell him that you are sorry he feels that this situation is your fault and that one day he will come out of this fog and you will accept his apology.

(hugs)

How are you doing, Sweet Bluebox?

I think of you often. You have been so brave through all of this, just wanting everyone to be OK yet insisting on doing the right thing. I hope you are feeling more stable? Has your dad come around at all and admitted the affair?

Turns out he hasn't told his mum about OW, my mum went to see my dads mum this week and avoided the conversation just like her son keeps doing. They did speak about it briefly with my grandma just saying are you sure it cant be reconcilled, he has said you can go back and that he still loves you, my mum just said no. So didn't tell my gran about OW either, instead has said for my gran to speak to me!! :( I don't want to go telling my grandma, feel like i'm attacking my dad doing that, that its not my place to, but now feel shes gpoing to ask me when i see her. I've been told to go see her soon as shes poorly and its not looking good.

My dad has been back to hospital again now and off work sick again with the same bad infection as before.

He sent my older sister £50 for her birthday yesterday, shes the one who doesn't want anything to do with him anymore at all. She messaged me and my younger sister about it asking what she should do, I said about sending it back, she said wouldn't that be provocative though. I think it would be but said if she's going to keep it she should atleast send him a thank you as would be rude not to. She said she doesn't want to speak to him though. So i said she doesn't want him coming back in the future saying your not speaking to him, but willing to take his money. She has sent it back to him now, so i imagine that hurt him, as he also posted a happy birthday message on her fb with I love you at the end and shes now unfollowed him on there and ignored it. My sisters reaction to my dad is really getting to my mum and me. I always knew this is how she would be with him :(

My mum has just phoned me as she is struggling today, masking if she should reach out to dad with him being poorly. I said i just don't know for sure if he is poorly or not though as i don't know if he's just doing it for sympathy :/

It is such an awful time, but also I found out a few days a go an old colleague of mine who i see fairly regularly and is super friendly, and i get on with his wife really well too, he has died :( I don't know what happened but it was sudden and unexpected. It's really made me see how short and fragile life really is and anyone can go at any time. My heart is breaking for his wife, he was only 55 and they've been married 3 years and were the strongest couple i've ever seen. Life is so cruel!

Such bad news all around. I am so sorry for the loss of your friend, and perhaps the impending loss of your gran... Do go and visit with her soon if she is not well. It sounds like she won't raise the subject given her avoidance of it with your mum, so just talk about old times and go through old pictures (label the backs with who is in them and when and where taken).

It sounds like everyone in your family looks to you for advice, but you are right not to want to be in the middle and carrying messages. Just take the high road and treat everyone well. Send your dad a "get well" card or fb message.

And stay in touch here - there are many who want to and can help.

Hi everyone, just thought i'd come on and update where things are at.

My dad is coping fine with everything, business is still slow and i am worried he's going to loose it, but it's ticking over for now. Looks like he's still with OW as i have seen a few parcels arrive and the contents were items clearly for her (Soap molds, she makes hand made soaps) Looks like their looking at holidays too. They've been looking at a cruise, which is a holiday my mum has always wanted to do but my dad said no because he didn't want to be surrounded by water. So that's hurt my mum tremendously!!

My mum is really struggling, in a very low place. Drinking is getting out of hand, she is living with my aunt and uncle i said about and my aunt has counciling training so i think thats helping a little but not much. I've suggested she go IC or AA but she won't at the moment. Me and my sisters are struggling to get to see her as she's thrown herself into working as much over time as she can to get some money behind her. Although she has called in sick a lot too when shes been unable to face going outside, or has drank too much the night before :/

My older sister still refuses to speak to my dad, and he's refusing to get intouch with her saying he's tried :/

I have an ally in my younger sister as she too wants to continue a relationship with dad. She has just found out shes pregnant (11 weeks so its not public yet so shhh lol) so some joyful news for once!

I am still struggling alot, i have many down days, the thought of the pain my mum is going through (I think its all finally just hitting her) she lashed out at my dad via fb messenger and told him what she really thinks - well told him how hurt she is and that hes destroyed her... He didn't respond :/ although I have since seen a hand written envelope addressed to her in his office so maybe he's sent her a letter instead and it's not arrived yet.

She is being advised to get legal advice as she told him to remove her name off everything, which he has been doing. She received a statement of their joint bank account and she said there's not much in it, but doesn't know if there was much in it anyway :/

I am just starting up a new business ontop of my current business, ontop of helping my bf with his business. In the hope it earns me enough to separate more from my dads incase it does all crumble around him.

We are practically back to normal when around each other, like nothings happened. But then i remember how he's still lying about what he's done - thats what my mum is struggling with the most, she said she's going to out him publicly once all the legal side of stuff is done. He's also still claiming its my perception, all it will take is me hearing that once more from someone recent and i'll be showing him that message where he talks about if my mum found out then so be it etc...

My auntie has messaged him regarding a big PPI payout he got about 12 months ago - I think it was about 20k my mum thinks it was more than double that. She didn't see a penny of it yet it was from their joint account. I am pretty sure he's invested it all into the business and its all gone on paying rent and painting and decorating, furniture etc etc. But my aunts asked him about it and pointed out the fact it was a joint account etc... she's had no response either. So the letter to my mum could've been regarding that too i guess.

Me and my sisters feel its about to get very messy!

Oh my! Thank you for updating, even if the news is rocky. Actually that is probably when you should post most so that we can offer support.

What your dad is doing is third-party gaslighting: he is telling everyone that you are the crazy one poisoning his wife and daughter against him. Usually it is a WS directly gaslighting the BS, but in your case he has brought in the whole family dynamic.

And I agree you cannot allow yourself to be painted as the family paranoic. Are you feeling more comfortable about sharing the proof then? You might consider telling your dad that you have proof (unspecified) but have wanted to spare him a widespread outing; but that it is coming if he does not come clean to your mum. Give him “How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair” by Linda MacDonald, a short, insightful book that emphasizes acting with complete transparency and integrity. He may not read it or heed it, but when he is outed you will know you tried.

Keep on going with your head held high!

[This message edited by Odonna at 6:49 AM, August 29th (Thursday)]

How are you doing Bluebox?

Hey Odonna, I'm kind of just plodding along, OW came in the office on friday :( i haven't seen her for a while, and its put me 3 steps back. My blood was boiling. She was here for a meeting with my dads landlord (house) for her to sell her handmade soaps in their boutique shop. I have started a business making and selling bathbombs, soaps etc and have learnt alot about it and I dont believe shes assessed her soaps so shouldn't legally be selling them... I wanted to make a comment but i just couldn't:/ i threw her soaps in the bin from the ladies toilets and had planned to replace with some of my own, assessed ones, but before I could replace them my dad discovered they were missing and I got a bollocking. I told him they were old and minging, which they kinda were to be honest, but he said they were new put in there that day... so he got them out the bin and told me to leave well alone.

My mum has messaged his landlord making sure her name is off the tenancy and told them hed been having an affair, I wish she had said who with as they may not have had that meeting, but nevermind. My mums also been messaging my dad and called him a coward as his still not admitting it, and has threatened to fully expose him to his mum. He's going on holiday on thursday, it was their anniversary holiday they go on every year, and my mum keeps asking if hes taking ow on their holiday, but he avoids the question. I dont know if ow is going, but he definitely is still going.

He has finally reached out to my uncle (where my mum is living) and has asked to meet up to give him his side of everything, so my mums asked me to meet my uncle before he sees my dad so I can show him the evidence etc so my uncle has all the facts that I have and can argue my corner for me. So no doubt my dad will come at me after the conversation :(

I am so sorry that your Dad is still keeping you in the middle. You do need to educate your uncle on the facts so that your father can not manipulate him, but going forward try to remove yourself from the drama. Take the high road.

About your dad’s holiday, is he spending marital money on this? You have said that money is tight so anything he is spending on himself (and OW) should be matched with money set aside for your mum. Your uncle would be a good one to make this point as he is now housing your mum.

Take good care of yourself and let us know how things go!

[This message edited by Odonna at 10:05 AM, September 10th (Tuesday)]

(((Bluebox)))

Hang in there. Sharing the proof with your uncle should give him the chance to see your dad lie with no remorse. Hopefully your dad hits rock bottom soon and realizes that he has made terrible choices and that there will be consequences.

The OW is a terrible person. Her product should be reported as there is a real possibility that she will cause harm without meeting proper standards.

I’m glad your mom has found the strength to begin protecting herself. So proud of you for doing the right thing.

The soap deal just reinforces that he chooses OM over you and your Mom. Do not have any sympathy for him. Call the landlord back and give him the whole scoop, and go chunk those soaps in the men's room urinal and see if your Dad still wants to fish them out. If he gives you grief tell him they looked and smelled like urinal cakes.