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But given that she also says she is still unsure if she would like to reconcile or not, this all just looks like keeping me in reserve for when she finally realizes what she wants

You exercised your power when you transferred the decision to reconcile or not from her to you, however she didn't get the memo. She either disbelieves this has happened or refuses to acknowledge the decision is not hers to make.

I went to her place for the first time.

She knew what time I would be coming ; when I arrived the kids were eating ice cream, so I had to sit down and wait.

I was fine and just got their stuff in the car , but this was no coincidence .

When I know she is coming over to me, the kids are ready , the bags are packed.

I’m too old for games

I am sorry you have to deal with such idiocy. She has put you through enough. I hope she stops the games and manipulative tactics.

You know ATG, if your WW is going thru a mid-life crisis and thinks she had children way too early in life this could be an opportunity. If she is looking to get out and live the party life and resents having children that interfere with her fun, you could offer to take the kids a lot more to free up her hedonistic pursuits. I mean you would just be helping her out right? Why should she have to spend so much time with these annoying children who ruined her chance to party her life away. Offer to give her a lot more party time and you’d love to have the kids more. When she gives you an opening, take it. Make sure you document if you can how much time she spends with the kids. If when she has them she simply dumps them on a sitter so she can party, well perhaps she doesn’t need to have as much custody. Just sayin.

[This message edited by fareast at 7:53 AM, January 18th (Friday)]

She knew what time I would be coming ; when I arrived the kids were eating ice cream, so I had to sit down and wait. I was fine and just got their stuff in the car , but this was no coincidence

You have to begin anticipating and expecting her subtle manipulative tactics and creating means to thwart them. I'm in business development. Often when meeting with prospects, I give them a very tight meeting window.

I tell people that I'm meeting with that I have to be across town with 10 minutes of our meeting ending. This establishes an efficient meeting and precise meeting end time. Tell her the kids have to be prepared AT the time of pickup due to obligations you have.

If or when she doesn't comply, just stay in the car and make business calls, or call a friend and just shoot the breeze. When she brings the kids out, stay on your call and just gesture with a thank you and then go on your way. No need to go inside or not take or initiate phone calls until it's just you and your kids in the car or wherever the exchange is taking place.

Thanks Jorge, it is good advice.

I really want this hand over to be as short as possible.

Why she wanted me to look at her house? I guess it was to get approval.

The reason why I went in?

I am just reading a book by child psychologist Remo Largo about children of separated parents.

He argues that it is good for the children. And the kids actually wanted me to see their playroom, they were excited.

But the easiest way to avoid a repeat is to ask her to pick them up from my house. And I will drop them off at hers. In a regular week, one handover will actually happen after swimming lessons. So she wont have much chance to intervene in a swim club.

Today is the play date/ get to together with the kindergarten parents and their children.

She determined that she will come as well.

I wish I wouldn't have to see her, but under this circumstance, she does have the right to be there.

I am sure, more games will be played.

I will play my game with a straight bat.

He argues that it is good for the children. And the kids actually wanted me to see their playroom, they were excited.

Enough said. Extremely important point here, so glad you went inside. Aside from such circumstances, allow your phone to be your a diversionary device. In a 1-on-1 situation, being engaged in discussion with someone else, enables you to be indifferent and detached without being outwardly dismissive or rude.

While on the phone, you can make quick, fleeting eye contact with a half-smile and gesture 'hi' or 'thanks', while helping them get in the car, and then ending the phone talk as you are leaving her and beginning to engage with the kids. Might help with the uncomfortable, quirky exchange period that takes longer than necessary, purposeful or not.

I look forward to you being able to look her in the eye with a half-smile that symbolically says, I'm fine, I'm done, I'm at peace. An indifferent disposition is more powerful than an indignant one. In the meantime, you have to get there and you will in time.

She's instinctively manipulative, and indifference will diffuse much of that, because nothing will matter, notwithstanding the pending divorce, your kids' well being and your future successes. You're the prize. You'll be in demand once you are comfortable with moving forward with her replacement.

Continue your robotic answers to all her questions. She lost the ability to share in your feelings. Hopefully the continued robotic answers to all her questions will help her accept that her behavior has ended your marriage and that she has to move on in life.

Keep moving forward in your healing. Share as much time with your children as you can. You will find happiness in yourself for being the stand up father you are.

ATG,

I think your stbxWW is having serious buyer’s remorse at the moment.

I have followed your thread from the beginning.

I would not be surprised if the truth is your WW was not in a full sexual PA with this OM until the final phases of your story when you caught her with condoms in her bag.

You had a ‘wait and see’ attitude about making a decision to D early on and had at least a passing interest in trying R if she could get her head out of her ass.....

But she couldn’t let it go....in emotionally too deep at the time in the fantasy this scumbag was undoubtedly pushing at her......she just HAD to know if he was her ‘one’.

So she continued on, you gave up and saved yourself, and she finally gave in to OM for the Full Monty.

OM got all he ever wanted, used her over your vacation.....and then dumped her because sex is all he was looking for.

Now that the sugar high of the A is over, and she is coming out of Fantasyland, your WW is realizing that she blew up her entire life and family for a useless turd.

Her recent statements and actions are her putting out feelers to see if she has a path back to her old life......but unfortunately for her you are simply done and over with this M after her behavior.

That is good for you....but intensely frightening for her......and growing more so daily as you move forward on the D path.

Expect these little hints and attempted manipulations/enticements to not only continue, but increase, as you get closer to finalizing your D from your WW.

Dyokemm

I think you are right, to a degree.

You are sympathetic with me and of course all of my friends and of course myself, have the same biased view : She will wake up, full of regret.

The other position could of course be:

She was unhappy in the marriage, clearly chose the wrong way to get out, but is now finally living the life of her dreams.

It is important for me to consider such a position as well:

It allows me to accept that there are other ways for her to be happy and she and I can move on.

Because otherwise I would reserve some energy for the thought: " What will I say if she wants to reconcile, when she has this moment of regret?"

I need to free myself of thinking like that and just focus on myself.

And that also means , sitting here, finding all the paperwork my lawyer is asking for....

ATG,

You very well could be right about the alternative explanation.

You know your WW.....she is a stranger to me.

I think what struck me about her behavior from your posts, and what led me to the conclusion I posted was the recent changes in her statements and interactions with you.

When you first called D, and were doing in house sep before the holidays, she seemed SO focused on taking things to the next level with OM.....

So much so that she couldn’t even show you the damn courtesy and respect to hide the condoms from you.

She was so focused on getting with OM you were almost an afterthought.

Now, after you went away with the kids and she essentially had care free fun time with scumbag.....you get back and begin to politely but firmly move forward with the process of D....and suddenly she hits you with sad comments like the D process seems so cold, and are you sure you 100% want a D. (Not responding to those was brilliant for your detachment and moving on btw in my opinion).

So what changed?

Why is she now asking you these questions and acting morose that you are detached and moving on?

My hunch is OM dumped her......had no intention of giving up his M and assets the whole time, just wanted her for sex so he fed her a Fantasy to entice her to give it to him.

Some posters on infidelity sites call this the ‘future fake’.....really common.

And now that he got what he wanted, he has withdrawn the Fantasy.....probably feeding your WW lots of excuses about why he can’t D his BW at this time.....and your WW is probably starting to realize she got played.

Problem for her is, she has now burned her bridge back to you.....and those comments and wanting to have you come over, and going to kindergarten events like a regular happy family?

Those are her feelers to see if you might possible take her back.

And if I were you, I would take that as a sign that, no matter how much she said she was unhappy in the M before the A, it could not have been bad.....

In other words, her claims of unhappiness are the common rewriting of the M a WS does to justify to themselves why they need to escape to Affair Fantasyland.....its bullshit.

Because who would send out signals about maybe reconsidering D if they had just escaped from a truly miserable situation?

Ask yourself this.

what do you want?

Right now it seems to me all you are is the fallback guy.

OM for whatever reason didn't work out. If he had would she even consider you?

Could be as simple as wanting to consummate her attraction to her AP, thinking/hoping/believing you'd take her back after she was done. Quite frankly that's what happens in the majority of SI cases seemingly. Wayward goes rogue, betrayed reconciles, albeit to a damaged relationship, injured spouse and uncertain future.

Thank you all for your comments.

Of course they reflect what I am thinking.

Only thing is that I don’t want her back.

I can’t make that any more clear to her, but she doesn’t seem to get the message

ATG

Your approach and attitude are spot on.

Someday, after months of therapy and introspection and hard work (none of which I believe she is doing today) perhaps she could become the wife you deserve.

By then I hope you have found someone who truly gives you the love and respect you need.

I’m sorry she has treated you this way. Keep on the path toward D and try and limit interactions with her as best you can.

How did the play date go?

[This message edited by Stevesn at 11:42 AM, January 19th (Saturday)]

There can be validity to her wanting to consummate their "relationship". My WW needed to consummate with her AP. She was afraid he was going to move on. She simply had to put out. She waited until I was travelling 8 hours a day for several days. After that she set the parametres and he determined when. She ran the security about not getting caught. They screwed for another 3 years, frequently.

You are holding strong. You've made your decision. Keep moving forward. Stay strong.

[This message edited by steadychevy at 6:58 AM, January 19th (Saturday)]

The play date was organized so that the new parents and pupils get to know each other.

We arrived there separately of course.

I was talking to a different parent when my stbxw arrived. I introduced her as my daughter's mother.

Later in that conversation, I clarified that we are co-parents and separated.

My wife was very quick to say " well, we are still figuring this out".

We left before the event was officially over and my wife asked " where are you going?"

Luckily my son said " We are going to xxx's house" so I didnt have to say anything.

And she came to pick my kids up.

She brought up my email style:

“ we have know each other for so long, they are so business like.

It’s so sad”

She honestly tells me that whilst I’m holding my tears back, because I’m sad to see the kids go.

How does whatever she had done to me, even compare to a business like email style ?

“ we have know each other for so long, they are so business like.

It’s so sad” 

I've followed your thread from the beginning and i must say I am so proud of you.

- Random internet stranger

You know what's so sad is when your wife .....

You're down to a business transaction now. The e-mails need to be business like.

You're doing very well, Atg.