SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi ATG

As hard as it must be you are doing a great job to continue to just ignore and not react to the comments she made to you at the kindergarten and when coming to pick up the kids.

Atg100

In your WW mind, if you can be friends, be friendly and close in D, do things as family, etc. You accept that your were not un LOVE with her, that you didnt love her as wife but a friend, so D is OK and her A is not a Big deal.

Seems like she is trying to convence her self that she is not the bad Guy.

Yes she either wants to push me into the friends corner to make herself feel better.

Or its part of the "I'm so undecided behaviour"

A lawyer once told me that in her experience if other people do something do really stupid, in 90% its due to incompetence and in 10% due intend.

I and all the people who comment here, seem to think her behaviour is due to intend.

But she has behaved so immature throughout the whole procedure, that I would rather think its due to incompetence.

Anyway, this week I won't have to see her:

She will drop the kids off on Thursday morning at vacation care and I 'll pick them up.

She has them for an extra day in the week, because I will go camping with the kids, including the Australia Day holiday next Monday.

To get her to agree to that wasn't easy.

She also asked me to book a babysitter (of course on a day when I have the kids, so I must pay for it) and we meet in a cafe to discuss the co-parenting agreement.

She suggested this Wednesday, I made it next Wednesday.

I just don't want to see her again so soon:

I saw her daily for the last 3 days. That is simply too frequent for me.

Unless any issues with the kids arise, I won’t her have to talk to her for 7 days at least.

Yes she either wants to push me into the friends corner to make herself feel better.

Or its part of the "I'm so undecided behaviour"

A lawyer once told me that in her experience if other people do something do really stupid, in 90% its due to incompetence and in 10% due intend.

I and all the people who comment here, seem to think her behaviour is due to intend.

But she has behaved so immature throughout the whole procedure, that I would rather think its due to incompetence.

Anyway, this week I won't have to see her:

She will drop the kids off on Thursday morning at vacation care and I 'll pick them up.

She has them for an extra day in the week, because I will go camping with the kids, including the Australia Day holiday next Monday.

To get her to agree to that wasn't easy.

She also asked me to book a babysitter (of course on a day when I have the kids, so I must pay for it) and we meet in a cafe to discuss the co-parenting agreement.

She suggested this Wednesday, I made it next Wednesday.

I just don't want to see her again so soon:

I saw her daily for the last 3 days. That is simply too frequent for me.

Unless any issues with the kids arise, I won’t her have to talk to her for 7 days at least.

Kids adjust to no contact. It normalizes over time.

Don't be afraid of the 180. It is your only path if you want the best way out of this.

Most like her will bug you awhile but eventually they fade away.

I think Mrhealed has a good perspective to think about, too, Atg. If you can be friends and "not so business like" and you get along in the co-parenting well then what she did wasn't so bad because look how well you're doing. You're friends, after all. It's to make her feel okay because she's really a good person and you're okay.

Hi ATG

The members tend to agree that your stbxw is playing the ‘Let’s be friends’ card to make herself feel better and not look like the bad person or deal with the poor choices she’s made, although you have specifically told her you do not want to discuss anything else other than divorce and co-parenting.

There is discussion from you and others that her recent comments:

1) to parents at the kindergarten get together where you discussed being co-parents and separated from your wife and she chimed in" well, we are still figuring this out" and

2) about your email style being robotic “we have known each other for so long, they are so business like. It’s so sad”.

are actually intentional and therefore aimed to provoke some sort of emotional response or reaction from you. Or that she really does not process what she says and is emotionally blind to the effect her words may have on you. The jury is still out on deciding which way to lean.

You note that she has asked for a meeting to discuss the co-parenting agreement. Again she has put the burden on you to sort out childminding. Is that not a calculated action? I would strongly recommend you record this conversation. You can tell her it’s so there is no misinterpretations about your verbal agreement and may need to be incorporated into the formal divorce agreement. Actually, it’s to protect you from any comeback from her later on if things go south with the divorce.

Do you think she wants to amend the co-parenting agreement so she can have more of a single girl lifestyle? I ask this because you mentioned that she invited her cousin up to Brisbane to “go out and party” and when her cousin declined because she said she was a young Mum with responsibilities, your wife replied that ‘she had children far too early in life’.

At the moment I assume you share the kids during the week but she may want to bargain to have a one week on-one week off arrangement to better accommodate her new single girl lifestyle.

Only my assumption but forewarned is forearmed

[This message edited by AFL1000 at 8:35 PM, January 20th (Sunday)]

Our current arrangement is a little bit tricky:

Our youngest is only going to Kindy on Wednesday to Friday.

My wife doesn’t work Monday and Tuesday - and we agreed that we don’t want our girl Kindy/daycare every day.

As my wife has them every Monday , Tuesday and Wednesday , I have them Thursday to Sunday, except when I’m on call

That usually means 3 out of 4 weekends , they are with me.

My wife now wants extra weekends, which would break the 50:50 balance.

I am sure she would bank on that I will give her more time with the kids, and pay her more money.

I need to be careful.

I insist on 50% access , I’m not prepared to reduce my time with the kids .

Also when you look at the child support calculator - there is an enourmous step up of what I have to pay her if she would have the kids for 65% let’s say.

I’m not having any of that.

If she plays hard ball, I will just go to week on, week off.

She would struggle financially if she would have to pay for 50% of day care costs. And that will play a role when it comes to settlement of our pool of assets.

So, I’ll have to be a step ahead , avoid open conflict and keep my first goal in mind:

As much time with the kids as possible.

Yes, I will record the meeting and keep minutes which I’ll get her to approve .

I won’t be taken for a ride

I’m working out regularly , I’m practicing mindfulness .

I have a business like approach to the divorce proceedings.

During the daytime, I miss my kids, but not my wife.

I’m busy in the public hospital job, I’m working on expanding my private practice .

I have got good friends, and strong support at my work place.

Yet- every night, around 2am I wake up, having dreamt of her: she is still here, or she is sleeping with another guy in front of me , or she is packing up.

I have to get up, listen to meditation music.

Talk to my sister in Germany ( thank you time difference ). I go back to sleep after an hour.

This morning, I started with 30mins on the rowing machine , I feel fine.

I wish that the part of my brain, reponsible for this dream would concentrate on something else.

[This message edited by Atg100 at 2:38 PM, January 21st (Monday)]

Maybe once the child arrangements are finalized your dreams in the middle of the night will stop.

It may be that you fear you will have to fight for the 50/50 arrangement and it is in your subconscious.

Maybe your still in flight/fight mode and the dreams are a result of this.

Have you spelt it in out to her in 'black and white', your feelings about her, your determination to D her, and your desire to have minimal contact.

Although, it maybe wise to 'sugarcoat' this, but let her know where she stands, so that you can resolve your own inner conflict.

Hope this helps.

I am definitely not in “normal” mode and I have to be careful when talking to her -

I think , if she responds with anger to anything I say, there is danger I’ll see the kids less or pay more money.

So I have to chose my fights wisely.

I have no interest anymore in talking to her about anything else but co-parenting and financial separation.

A few more details have come to light since she moved out - but where is the point in arguing about this?

She has moved out and I am moving on.

Time with my kids is my most important goal, I care less about the money and will let my lawyer do the talking.

Hi ATG

Knowing you I am sure you have well and truly checked out all details related to separation and co-parenting and are acutely aware that in our current Family Law there is no rule that children must spend equal or "50:50" time with each parent, so I recognise your caution in not antagonising your stbxw, even if her comments or actions piss you off. I respect your goal in securing as much time with your kids as possible, pre and post divorce.

You stated that "A few more details have come to light since she moved out..." Are these related to her affair or just a further reflection of her character flaws?

Her character:

We have lived together for 11 years , in 3 cities in Australia.

7 years as " DINKS" ( Double income no kids)

She has never contributed to rent or mortgage, electricity or any associated living costs, even when both of us were working full time.

In fact, I can't even remember that she paid for dinner once.

A friend told me now, that she and her family are well known, to never open their wallets. My wife has apparently when going out for drinks with friends often "forgotten " her wallet and then offered to pay people back later - but the money never arrived. My wife's friends always knew her to have nice clothes and jewellery.

Her parents and brother are also the same.

This friend has never said anything, because I always more than made up for her with my generosity. I always buy drinks, never arrive empty handed at a friend's house.

Last year I paid for holidays for my in-laws on the Sunshine Coast and flew her mother from Perth to Brisbane 3 times in addition to that; because the mother had no money, apparently.

The year prior I paid for their holiday in Port Douglas.

Yet - my MIL had enough money to fly for 'girls-weekends' to Melbourne several times.

- And I wasn't aware of that.

Of course they are sad to see me go...

And this friend has known my wife since she was a child.

It is very obvious what is going to happen: she will go for any cent she can squeeze out of me.

You best get the childrens coparenting schedule set in stone. 50/50. Also, that you have right to first option if she is unable to have the children during her time, and record these when they occur. Keep a record of all monies spent over and above what is agreed.

You will eventually reach the acceptance stage, which will help reduce the stress, but you better learn how to play the 'poker face'. Learn a few reflective responses. 'If we work through this quickly, you'll be able to have more time for yourself'. 'You have wanted to be able to get out and meet people, so if we work through this quickly, you can'. 'I do not want to restrict your freedom anymore, you'll be able to do what ever you want'... There are a lot of ways to take control through this.

Keep the goal firmly in sight, and work smartly to get there.

I couldn't sleep the other night and read your whole threat in one sitting. My take away would be that you can rest easy knowing that you did everything you could to save the marriage... She did everything she could to continue cake eating and destroy it. Since making your decision to divorce you have been solid also. No, jumping a each crumb to reconcile. I believe she will be dropping more crumbs so she can keep the stability she gets from you. You need way more than that for her to fix what she has done continue to evade her "hints".

Very good job keeping things amicable but not too friendly while getting the paperwork done.

Just keep moving things forward as best you can. Think outside of the box to make sure you are able to keep your 50/50 custody time. Could you take a Wednesday and give her a Sunday occasionally and still get the 50/50 split? Is your daughter getting alot more from being home those extra days than at Kindergarden/preschool? Or is she mostly with the Nanny, TV and games?

I know in the US the judge would probably push back on allowing one parent to get mostly the weekends. Of course your schedules are going to change. Your WW will probably need to increase her hours and your kids will all be in school soon enough.

You seem to be doing really well settling into your new normal.

Thank you.

You read the whole thread in one setting?

Hope it made you fall asleep.

I would prefer week on / week off, that would make it easy.

At the moment my on call roster plays a role.

But I could shift it around to week on week off.

It’s different every month - In March , I work two weekends, in April there will be Easter holidays. So there are variations .

But by all means : if she wants to work full time , contribute to childcare costs - I’m flexible

The children are very upset. They want to come home to me.

My wife messages me how heart braking this is to her.

Again I have to be very diplomatic - I say that I am fully committed to a 50/50 split and that I will do my bit to keep it fair.

She then messages saying that she is upset that our friends didn’t ask her to go camping and went straight to me.

Now - she went out with this friend after our Tasmania trip in September . The two women were in a pub, when my stbxw decided to invite the affair partner to join them.

The friend of ours told me the next day about it and how uncomfortable she was.

So, I couldn’t help myself and wrote : do you think those friends maybe judge you by your actions?

She even replied - they can judge me if they like, I apologised and am working on fixing it.

Maybe - but I bet she thought she could do what she did, and life would continue without change. Friends wouldn’t make up their own mind who they want to hang out with.

Unicorns and golden rainbows fade quickly but that's not your problem now.

Better watch the contact.

ATG

The more you are revealing about your STBXWW, the more you, cream am rising to the top. You have shown I treat in saving your marriage at first, she continued to make bad choice after bad choice to feed her selfishness. You reached your limit, asked her to leave, and have been as civil as you can. STBXWW still is viewing her life as if she has little to no consequences even as they are staring her in her face. Her cousin telling her that her responsibility as a mother trump girls night out. Local friends avoiding the camping for her, thinking she can win you back before your D goes final without doing any work to make you feel safe or important.

Your right to tread lightly with her. The simple business like answers to her questions are still your best shot at getting her to realize the end is near.

Your children wanting to spend more time with you should be a ego boost for you. You are showing your structure, love, and interest. The kids see they have value with you. Hold your head high knowing that. If you continue like this, as they get to the age when they can tell a judge who they like to spend more time with, they will say you.

Keep up being you, the rock for your kids. The respected person you are. As I said the cream always rises to the top.