SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

here's my two cents

picture you were in a massive car wreck

life threatening

so good you got all the bleeding stopped, the major organs saved and all the big life-saving items addressed

so you are now upset you aren't out climbing mountains when you have just got up and walking again? You wanna go run now on that busted leg before doing all the physical therapy?

The rebuilding trust process takes that proverbial 4-letter word = TIME

so yes the plain gets further behind when all the trauma has really really healed and all that are left are the scars with the reality of the thankfulness and gratitude that while we were burnished in the fire - we not only survived, we were able to thrive

the coaches I have and couples in our retrouvaille group are like 10+ years out so IMO be compassionate and patient and thankful that you are walking again at least

but yeah to get to that deeper trust issue - that mountain - well only fools rush in where angels fear to tread

what a LTA confirms is that our partner was able to "master" a level of scary (IMO) compartmentalizing/denial/cognitive dissonance that really smacks of a deep rooted problem with integrity

all the wine and roses for a couple years ain't the same as really weathering the storm in the boat together

just sayin'

there is wisdom in the allowing for a 2-5 year average timeframe to really allow the reality of processing through this trauma

(((((needfriendshere)))))

Merida,

Thank you for everything you shared, especially this:

what a LTA confirms is that our partner was able to "master" a level of scary (IMO) compartmentalizing/denial/cognitive dissonance that really smacks of a deep rooted problem with integrity

all the wine and roses for a couple years ain't the same as really weathering the storm in the boat together

We are in a storm now. I had surgery last month and wasn't doing well afterward, and H's mother's health is failing (he's her favorite but is a very mean woman who has pushed all the rest of us away). H does great with the wine, roses, and romance, but not so well when issues arise. That might be part of the flatness I am feeling toward him. I am seeing the "old" Mr. NFH a bit too much these days. He is sulky because I am "not in the mood" yet. He's acting like a wounded puppy. And he won't accept that his mommy is counting on him and only him. I honestly think he may need to move in with her until we can get her settled somewhere. She lives in a huge house - we've downsized to a 2-bedroom condo. But he chooses to be in conmplete denial. He gets angry at me when I bring her up - real angry. And a part of me thinks, "Really? You're going to be like that? Oh well. Have fun. I'm so not in the mood for this..."

yeah it really is the storms that letcha know the relationship is real

not saying for you to not feel indignant, ya have a right to push back in getting that his anger is a cover-up I am betting on fear

if there is a way to show the grace to understand his crappy coping has nothing to do with you and everything to do with that little boy inside still hasn't grown up enough to be able to handle the loss of his mom without the false bravado of anger

here is to hoping you can be tender with that little boy so he doesn't have to deflect in response

peace as you process, the communication dance ain't easy when we got used to stepping on toes and taking it for granted that was the only way to dance

[This message edited by Merida at 10:59 AM, November 3rd (Friday)]

I think the plain of lethal flatness is more like a plain of emptiness.

I finally woke up and realized all that we lost - as a family - because of H’s LTA. We lost our home, many of our friends, our church, my health, and our oldest son (who doesn’t know what his dad did but is furious that we sold our house). I look around at where we are now and I’m beyond anger and resentment. At this point, when it comes to H and everything he and OW did to me and to our boys, I simply feel empty. I’ve made a new life for myself here but I miss what I had before Dday - a lot. I wish I could have my old life back. I was half crazy with fear, with anger and bitterness, and with the pain of it all. And it led to my making some drastic changes in our lives that H went along with to “make up for what he did.” I look around at where we are and what we’ve got and feel a great sense of loss. THAT, I believe is the plain of what many call lethal flatness - realizing what you’ve lost.

It’s time for that talk - the one I’ve been putting off. And it isn’t going to be pretty.

I wish you luck with the chat.

From the way it’s written it appears you are dealing with a man-child.

He’s upset YOUR not in the mood???? Oh hell no - especially after surgery. He’s selfish. Plain & simple.

He doesn’t want to deal with his Mother? Oooh pooor baby! Suck it up.

That is life. Good and bad. He needs to suck it up and grow up.

Sorry but he has bothered me with what appears to be a bad attitude.

(((The1stWife)))

Thanks for the pep talk! God knows, I need it. I don't know your story but hope your H is not a man-child. It's hard to know what to do with them sometimes. We want to assign adult feelings and emotions to them, but they fall into a different category altogether.

Many of us in reconciliation have experienced peaks and troughs, but I’m wondering whether your husband’s efforts to keep you on board are primarily motivated by self-interest. Did he want to keep you and the stability of family life - and your loyalty and sacrifice - and so he pulled out all the stops to woo you and stop you from leaving?

You say that your husband...

believed he was in love with another woman for 6 years of our M. He brought disease into our home and treated me so badly that I often cried myself to sleep with him lying beside me - wide awake - not caring.

And now you are wondering whether it has all been worth it...

No one can make this decision for you, but maybe you need to detach completely for a while - both emotionally and physically. Give yourself the space you need to decide what you want to do with the rest of your life.

I came out of the Plain of Lethal Flatness feeling total indifference. I have just started feeling good again, but my feelings towards my WS have not gotten much better. Apathetic is more like it.

Geranium,

you said:

And now you are wondering whether it has all been worth it...

No one can make this decision for you, but maybe you need to detach completely for a while - both emotionally and physically. Give yourself the space you need to decide what you want to do with the rest of your life.

I've thought about this. I even tried it about 2 years ago, when I rented a tiny place in a nearby state that I could afford at the time. H never left my side when I did this, moving in at first with a few articles of clothing until we finally sold our family home and rented a larger place in the safe place where I had moved to together.

LTA's are brutal. They undermine feelings, they make us question ourselves, our past, our lives together. They make us look at our WS's differently than we did before. And they honestly will never look the same as they did pre-Dday again. People always talk about the new normal. I was doing ok in that normal for a while. I have to believe I will again.

I have detached emotionally. That's the problem. I can't do so physically and am not sure I want to at this point. I am beginning to understand why I have detached and I think it would do H and I good to address those issues. Addressing them will speak voolumes about H's true feelings and his true level of commitment.

Thank you all for your encouragement. I had a long talk with H this morning.

We uncovered a lot. I realized I was still feeling like he was leading OW on. In subtle ways - like not responding to pictures of us that I post on FB, pictures I know she is seeing. Because she has "friended" many of our friends through her lies and her aliases and all the other crap she has pulled.

And, by not responding - i.e., letting people know he loves me - I felt that he was still keeping her on the back burner, so to speak. Until we started talking, I didn't even realize I felt these things. It just came tumbling out. Bottom line: I am so f---ed up. This whole thing is still so f---ed up.

(((nfh)))

I used to say Infidelity is the pain that just keeps on giving.

I so remember that meh stage. It was like the rage stage (which lasted a full 2 1/2 years for me) just simply drained me. I woke up one morning and the rage was gone only to be replaced with that feeling of nothingness.

I did go into the 'fake it til you make it' routine because at the time (around 2005 -2006) most of the people here were pretty much encouraging me that it was just another stage in the healing process. It probably took about a year for me to begin to feel bouts of joy again. To be clear, I did share my feelings with a very remorseful H who was basically doing backflips to help me heal. We both hung in there but I really felt like I would never feel 'normal' again.

Eventually it passed and even though I never believed it could happen, the A really did become a thing of the past. It is part of our history and barely registers as a blip on the radar.

And, by not responding - i.e., letting people know he loves me - I felt that he was still keeping her on the back burner, so to speak.

What was your husband's response to this?

Sinsofthefather,

I'll answer your question first. H's response to this:

And, by not responding - i.e., letting people know he loves me - I felt that he was still keeping her on the back burner, so to speak.

was a lot of backpeddling. He said that he knew OW was seeing my posts and he didn't want to set her off. I told him that was bullshit. By not responding, he has been giving her hope. I told him that it was time he let all of us get on with our lives: me, OW, her H, and Him. So he wrote this big mushy comment on the most recent picture I posted, causing some of my friends to hit the "wow!" emoji. It was sweet, but I mean, really? He is that dense? That's just plain old scary. That was why he never posted any comments to my posts or to pictures of us? He was afraid of setting her off? What does that even mean? He was afraid she would be angry at him?

If so, BFD! Make the b--- angry! Let her know you have no feelings for her - let her know you love me and only me. Yeah, I'm crying. It's been that kind of day. Sorry....

Imokay,

Thanks for your post. I guess there is hope. I'm really happy for you. Please tell me - how long did it take for you to feel this way:

Eventually it passed and even though I never believed it could happen, the A really did become a thing of the past. It is part of our history and barely registers as a blip on the radar.

NFH,

I'm so sorry to hear you're still struggling so.

Your H is a conflict avoider to the nth degree, isn't he?

In most cases I'd say a WS not wanting to piss off an AP is a huge red flag, but I'll take another angle with you here.

Your sitch is a bit different because of the nature of his xOW. She's done more than a few stalker type things over the years and there's no reason to believe she's finished with you guys yet. At ALL.

You yourself haven't yet blocked her on FB because you are worried that would set her off and there would be more reprisals from her, meddling in your life, with friends, family, children etc, right? Forgive me if I have that wrong.

But if that's the case, your H could certainly be taking his cues from you - Let's not poke the hornets nest.

Maybe I'm way off and there is some other reason you feel he's protecting her. From where I stand, I actually think he may have been protecting you because she has done a number on you over the years. She's nucking futs and sometimes you just don't want to invite more crazy.

Anyway, I think it's really good you shared with him. Some of the fallout from an A is going to be flatness, and that's ok. It's valid. And as such, he needs to see it, feel it, deal with it and share it with you.

I think he's trying.

I really hope so, because after all the LTA did to you, you deserve it.

(((NFH)))

Finding joy,

You are right. OW has stalked us and has exhibited surprising cruelty. But I think part of it is because she still believes that H loves her and is simply playing house with me. Her behavior has primarily been geared toward pressuring me to leave H.

H has been silent while I have taken the brunt of her vengeful acts. I think that if he showed her he loves me, she may back off. And I realize he has shrunk from doing that. From really showing her. I have blocked OW, but since she’s friends with so many of our friends, she can see our posts that they like and that they comment on. Plus she’s active in a group we’re members of.

H shrinks back from showing her he loves me. That realization hit me this morning when I posted his favorite picture on FB when it came up as a 3-year memory and he said nothing. He merely told me he saw it. OW needs to wake up. And H can do it. For 3 years he could have been doing it. She stalks him because she thinks he loves her and not me.

Until we started talking, I didn't even realize I felt these things. It just came tumbling out.

I was going to come here to post something I've said before, which is that having the conversation, if approached the right way, is the absolute most helpful and beneficial thing you can do. Bringing it up as an issue to be addressed together - like the partners that you currently are - even if it's not a happy conversation, is the way that difficult topics should be broached in a relationship. You don't know how he's going to react, and talking to him gives him a chance to help. Suffering alone is only going to put distance between you, and bring your coping mechanisms out to play.

But another huge benefit to talking it out is that you can uncover hidden issues that are causing the feelings you have, which is what happened for you. Now, your H has a chance to really make a difference for you. You've given him the bell, all he needs to do is ring it.

If you bore the brunt of her nutso behavior, maybe he wasn't concerned with her being mad at him, but her making your life hell. And, if he didn't know social media interaction was important to you, that risk might have been too high. However, I do agree that letting her continue to influence his behavior keeps her in your lives. She doesn't deserve to continue to have a hold on him that way, and he needs to stop thinking of her in any capacity so you can move on.

It sounds like he's getting it - I hope he keeps it up.

Thank you, CantEatCantSleep! I hope you’re right. I guess time will tell.

What I realized today is that after 6 years of being told H pretty much hates me and that she’s his everything, unless she SEES he loves me, she won’t believe it.

She actually tells people that the only reason H won’t divorce me is because he has his money tied up in investments that he can’t touch so he can’t afford a divorce. She seriously needs a wake-up call. And by showing her he loves me, I think H can wake her up and help her get on with her life.

Imokay,

Thanks for your post. I guess there is hope. I'm really happy for you. Please tell me - how long did it take for you to feel this way:

Eventually it passed and even though I never believed it could happen, the A really did become a thing of the past. It is part of our history and barely registers as a blip on the radar.

It was a slooooowww process. Day by day, step by step of just being a couple again and living our lives. TIME is that word we all hate, but truly, time is the only thing that will get us beyond the A. We can't go over it, under it, around it, we have to go through it.

I will have to say it was a good 10 years from him being remorseful and really "getting it" to fully get here. That is NOT saying it took 10 years to be happy again, but by the 10 year mark, it just didn't really matter anymore. I'd had 10 years of him doing all the right things. Of building new memories to replace the tainted ones. Of being made aware that I was his one and only. Of being told by friends (who didn't know anything about the A) that they loved the way H looks at me. They could tell he really loves me. (I got that from 3 different people who didn't know each other, 2 ladies and a man, all at separate times throughout the years.)

All of that has helped to get us to where we are now.

I would like to add one more thing. It probably took about 4 years before I could really say we were in a good place. The roller coaster ride had pretty much stopped, I was past most of the anger, the 'flat' feeling had disappeared. My triggers were few and far between.

It was at this point that the rebuilding could truly begin. I wondered during all of this if it was even worth it. I can now answer that question with a resounding "yes!".

NFH, I’m quite sure you’re correct as to why the OW won’t let it go, and what your H needs to do. What does he say about why he would shrink back from being more public about his love for you? If you tell him this is what you need, and you spell it out (“I need you to frequently comments on my posts, like my posts and be romantic about it” for example) is he willing?

Not that willingness always translates into action, but it would be the first step. The next step may be to work on his conflict avoidance.

You two really need to discuss it together, come up with a game plan together that you approach as a team, now that you see how it’s divided you so far.

By the way, I’m glad you’ve blocked her.