SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I need some clarity and advice from those outside of my marriage. I don't always make wise decisions and see the situation clearly, and double that when I'm in an emotional state, such as after an affair. I need advice and/or 2x4's either way.

This morning my wife suggested to me that she wants restitution from me for the affair. That there should be consequences from my actions. I can see her point of view and I don't necessarily disagree. So I asked her what she had in mind.

She told me that when we purchased our home a few years ago, that the property was placed in both our names, but that the mortgage is only in her name. (I was not working at the time, it lasted a year. It's a very sore subject for her. This was pre-A, but I had quit my job and was trying to start a new career, which might have been okay however I made this decision on my own, and she feels steam-rolled by it. We lost a lot of money as a result. At the same time she was having trouble at work and needed my support, and I was unable to be there for her. I later had a complete mental breakdown due to depression and PTSD, and then the affair happened after that. So she's been getting the shit-end of the stick for quite a while). She's worried now, because she says that if anything happens, (e.g. what if I have another affair, or just decide to be a jerk?) I could decide to just take my half of the proceeds from the sale of the house and walk away, leaving her with full mortgage debt but only half the proceeds to pay it off. She wants to feel safe. She also feels that the debt that was accumulated due to me failing to switch careers (and of course the affair) should fall onto my shoulders. And of course, she wants a detterent to me treating her unfairly.

So far, on those terms alone, I'm in agreement. I don't think she should feel that she's stuck being unable to pay the mortgage, I want her to feel safe and be financially whole, I want to know that my kids are taken care of as well as her, and I want to own any debt that's mine. I know a promise to pay my half of any debt doesn't mean much, as I've already lied and cheated. So, so far, we're in agreement.

What she proposed was that I sign a deed over to her, giving up my half of the house and all rights to the proceeds from the sale of the house.

Here is where I begin to worry. I told her I am willing to talk (that we should talk to a lawyer about this so that we both understand exactly what's going on) and that I am willing to take on the debt I incurred from expenses when changing jobs, and to take steps to ensure the mortgage is paid (if we split up) so that she's not financially ruined. Past that I assumed we would just split things amicalbly - the proceeds from the sale of the home, any debt that we incurred as a couple, visitation, and so on. I just don't want to end up destitute, unable to take care of either myself or my kids or my debt.

She feels however that I should get nothing. She said I left her emotionally destitute, and that if I'm worried about being left with nothing that I should have thought about that before having an affair. She feels that I'm being incredibly selfish by worrying about being able to take care of myself, that I only feel an obligation to her for what I've done to her. I told her I want to be able to provide a place for my daughter when it's her turn to stay with me, pay my debts, just survive. She feels like I really don't care about her only myself, not owning up to my deeds, not making a sacrifice and putting her needs before my own, and so on.

She's very upset with me. She said that I shouldn't even hesitate to do this, because if I'm serious and devoted to making it work with her, if I'm never going to cheat again and always put her first and so on, then none of this will ever be an issue, as we'll be together, and so there is nothing to worry about. She feels I'm only concerned about myself and not willing to make ammeds to her. After both the affair and the previous years where I wasn't there for her, she wants there to be consequences.

I need advice badly. My head tells me this is a bad idea. Yes, I know I destroyed her emotionally. Yes, I think she should feel like she's not at financial risk. Yes, I understand that if things don't work out that I should not be rewarded for bad behavior and she should not be further punished. And yes, I understand that it all shouldn't matter if we are as committed to R as we both say we are. I know that I treated her horribly, that she got shit on and that I didn't take the care to think about her outcomes or her feelings or how she would have survived had I chosen to run off with the AP. I understand that this seems like a "double standard" and that she feels I am asking her for what was never afforded to her. At one point her future was in my hands and I was "one foot out the door" and worried only about myself, and she could have been destroyed. I know this, and it eats my guts out. I know I owe her. I do. I want to make things right.

I would have no problem with signing this if we could agree to an equitable division of funds and resources in the event things don't work out. I don't need to get a windfall but I do need to surive. I don't want to have to move away from my daughter because I can no longer afford to live in Cali. I don't want her to come visit me if I live in a scummy place because I had no other choice. I can't help pay for the things she needs if I'm buried in debt or my credit is bad.

But every bone in my body says that signing away everything and leaving myself in massive debt with no way to afford to live or take care of my responsbilities is foolish and unacceptable beyond words. I will have no way to get a place to live, food, furniture. This is SoCal and the rent here is insanely high. Yes I have a job, but still, I would need a downpayment, first and last month's rent, just to get a place to live other than a cardboard box. I should be able to provide a room for my daughter so she can stay with me when we split custody. She's 15 and will need expensive things soon, such as college, a car, a dorm, clothes... I should be able to help provide these things, and I can't do that if I'm buried in debt and probably have ruined credit. I also don't neccessarily agree that the lesson I want to send her (my daughter) is that "Daddy cheated so the right thing to do is leave him with nothing."

Please, I need some cool heads, some wisdom, some guidance. I've been working hard on trying to change myself, be a good person, rebuild our marriage and honor and respect her. I've already started to look for ways to put her needs before my own, to fight for her, to show her this means more to me than anything else. I am willing to take losses and have things not go my way in order to prove to her that I'm serious and repentant and that she's being honored and respected and treated well. I understand and acknowledge that she has been working hard to make this work, giving of herself, trying to help ME heal as well as herself, and shouldering the financial risk as well as the emotional devastation. She has been more than fair and certainly there are stories on SI where WS's suffered worse fates. But this doesn't feel right.

I looked up restitution as it applies to infidelity to see what others have done, what restitution usually means after an affair. It seems that usually it takes the form of additional time spent together, or giving up items of personal pleasure, or working side jobs to pay off money spent on the AP, things like that. And she and I have already agreed to spend both time and money on fixing things in the home that she wants done, which I balked at originally (because of the debt we're already in from my actions) but she said it's not fair that she's saddled with my debt and got nothing for it, so we agreed to make those purchases and those efforts.

To be clear, I am not at all opposed to discussing ways to both make her feel safe (that I won't walk away and leave her stuck with the mortgage) and to discuss reasonable punitive consequences. Perhaps she can get a higher percentage from the sale of the home? Maybe I can sell some things of mine (guitars? camera?) or agree to make sure she gets the "big things" (beds, TV's, the piano) if we split up, etc. I understand that she feels like I shouldn't "gain" from this when all she feels is constant loss. I do. I agree she deserves more and deserves better.

Part of me wants to show her how sorry I am, how serious I am about rebuilding "us" and making sacrifices and effort, and that I am willing to put my trust in her hands, and trust her to NOT leave me on a street corner should things not work out. I know that when I had the affair that she got NONE of these things from me, she only got betrayed and used and hurt. SO yeah, I understand that she feels I should get screwed if and when she decides to do so. And the overwhelming guilt and sense of debt that I owe to her makes me feel I should give her what she wants and needs and let fate and our own efforts make the decisions. If we continue to work on R as hard as we have been, then none of this is an issue. I ask myself however, if this was a friend, if this was one of you asking me what to do, I can't imagine advising you that this is a good idea.

SO please SI, help me. What should I do? Am I being selfish? Is she asking too much? Do you see alternatives that make more sense? Am I making a bigger deal than it should be? Would you do it?

EDITED AFTER RE-READ:

I'd say do something if you feel it is fair but DO NOT do so blindly and in a manner that will leave you destitute, etc. Something can probably be worked out that, at least in part, addresses her concerns, short of you signing away all your rights. Sounds like the mortgage request thing, on its face, is an understandable one (if the house really was purchased with her funds because she was the only one working or who had money, etc.)

These things can get kind of complicated, such as when one spouse was caring for the kids and facilitating the other's career, etc.

You do have to be a little wary about these things. There was recently a poster here who complied with all of his wife's requests, including signing a Post-Nup and disclaiming any right to certain assets, etc., with the wife making it appear as though she wanted this stuff to reconcile ... then she basically immediately filed for D.

Such a hard thing to process. On the one hand, you can understand exactly where she's coming from, but on the other, the fact that you made a grave mistake doesn't mean you completely ignore your rights and interests.

[This message edited by SilverLinings55 at 1:02 PM, July 21st (Friday)]

What about a postnup that gives all her wished if certain things happen (i.e. another affair), but otherwise fix it now so it's a legal split?

What about a postnup that gives all her wished if certain things happen (i.e. another affair), but otherwise fix it now so it's a legal split?

I suggested that. She feels that the door to that option is too wide open. For example, what if I don't have an affair, but what if I do something else? For example, what if I become a total druggie? What if I become an abusive asshole? What if I just never change and continue to be a source of pain for her? She wants the control to make that decision. As you can imagine and understand, it's not like she doesn't have a reason to fear those things and feel that way.

A bit of clarification DD...the mortgage is in her name. Who has been paying the mortgage? Whose money was used for a down payment?

I think it's fair for a BS to request a safety net should they attempt R but another affair occur or they decide they can't R down the road. I often advice the finances for legal fees. If your wife is asking for the house but you pay the mortgage and assume the debt after divorce - that's too much. Are you two in MC? I think this should be discussed when emotions cool down.

This is hard - do you think your wife is testing your commitment to R, being punitive or truly worried for her future stability? Have you read Mefford's story?

I suggest compromise. In the event of a divorce, you both want decent housing for each of you for the kids. Decide what needs to happen for the KIDS to be protected.

[This message edited by sassylee at 1:30 PM, July 21st (Friday)]

Similar situation. I am the BS and I asked that my WH sign the house over to me completely. He wasnt comfortable with the idea. What we decided on was that each of our kids would get 10% (x4 kids) and i would own 60%.

We both work, and all of our finances are mutual. She makes more than I do and by a fair amount. The money for the down-payment was from our combined marital resources, mostly from the sale of our previous home. At the time, I was trying to change careers and become self-employed as a real estate agent. Since I had just started that and had no income yet to show or rely on, the mortgage went into her name so that we could afford to make it work.

I agree, she shouldn't feel vulnerable to getting screwed financially after all the pain I've inflicted on her. A safety net makes sense. She needs to take care of herself, and I want her to not have to worry about how she's going to afford to live if things go awry in R. I just need to take care myself as well. I don't see that as being unremorseful or selfish, just common sense, but she sees it differently and I understand why. I would probably feel the same way if I was her.

do you think your wife is testing your commitment to R, being punitive or truly worried for her future stability?

A little of each I think. It depends on when you ask. All three at the same time most likely. She's hurt, more hurt than she's ever been or probably ever will be. And I give her full credit for all the sacrifices she's made, both since the A and before the A - she's the rock of the family. While I was struggling with jobs, depression, and then having an affair, she was the one holding it all together, and even right now today, she did calm down a bit and agreed to call some lawyers so we can discuss this, and she made that effort. So I'm not bitching about her. I want her to know how very committed I am, both to R, to her and to fixing myself. I am willing to do almost anything to make this right. But cutting off my own head, even if she deserves that gesture from me, seems to be unreasonable.

As a BS - I would want a divorce settlement favoured towards me. The only way I'd want to completely screw my H over would be if he had another affair or was leaving me for an OW.

Before I married my H, my father advocated for a post-marital contract. I corrected him - "you mean a pre-nup? Lol We both have nothing!" He said "No - an agreement on how time with the kids would he shared and how much support should be granted for the kids." I replied "oh dad! I would never use the kids as a pawn or keep them from him! I'd want everything to be fair!" My dad replied - "easy to say when you love each other. Now picture him screwing his secretary. You still wanna be fair?" And he's right. When this shit happens, fair is seldom the first priority.

I'm glad she's consulting with an attorney. Compromise is essential...especially since you're both trying to R still.

[This message edited by sassylee at 2:04 PM, July 21st (Friday)]

I Would discuss this as a couple with a mediator or experienced family lawyer. They will help you come to an equitable decision acceptable to both of you.

I agree with you, it is too risky. She cannot ask that of you. If the genders were reversed, she would have been expected to be the 'sole provider' and there would be no concern about her quitting a job to stay home. Many a husbands have been the one to take out a home loan, pay for their wife's college education, only to be left once she got a high paying job. It sucks no matter who the person is that feels screwed over.

Surely there is some compromise that can be agreed upon.

Maybe you can be put some money in a savings account that could build up so that you can put early payments on the house, that come solely out of your paycheck...

DaddyDom

Is there any reason why you can't assume half of the outstanding mortgage? This way your wife isn't on the hook for the whole thing. In addition, possibly sign something that says you would split the proceeds of the sale of the house 60-40 in her favor should the unfortunate happen?

I agree with the others that leaving yourself in a position to b e destitute is unreasonable. At the same time, I think you agree that there should be some kind of penalty for doing business with the infidelity salesman.

I would not agree to it.

There is a poster here whose wife baited and switched him into signing away everything in what turned into a divorce agreement. She said the same thing...."we'll reconcile....everything will be fine...." (paraphrased)

Don't do it.

Home sale funds are used to pay off a mortgage/loan in total before you split the assets in a divorce settlement where I am.

Is that not the case where you are?

WRT to the question of your post - my H wanted a prenup; I offered that if I was involved in an affair or reached out to AP he'd get some crazy amount of a shared asset. He didn't accept - said it wasn't enough. I say that's my offer. I can't guarantee marriage - I can promise I won't contact AP, or engage in an affair. Doesn't matter anyway - nothing got signed.

Lately (as in the last few weeks) I'm w others who say don't entirely trust the BS. I wouldn't do what she is proposing.....

I am not an attorney, but in most cases even if the house were put in her name, in the event of a divorce it would still be considered community property. The mortgage would be paid off and then what is left over in equity is split regardless of whose name. It is in. If the house were underwater, she might be liable for the difference if your assets couldn't cover.

Since she makes more than you, why don't you let her place a portion of her income every month (hopefully a meaningful amount) in an account that you agree would be hers.

BUMPing up Mefford post - but you posted on it I think? Maybe not.

It really depends on the law where you live. I know in Colorado, everything acquired during the marriage (assets or debts) is considered 'marital property' and split 50/50 no matter who's name is on it.

There's risk for your BW in trying to R with you. In her mind everything you say could be a lie. You could leave her for someone else and take half the house that she has paid for all by herself.

You're taking a risk by seeking R with her. She could just decide that you're not putting in the effort or aren't committed to her, and decided to pull the plug, sell the house and take back her investment.

You could write a contract where you pay her for half of what she's paid for the house up until now. This deal would be independent of R, and if the house is sold the proceeds, less remaining debt, are split 50/50.

What your WW is asking is pretty common. During my WW's affair I was a design engineer at a start up company in silicon valley. While she was cheating I was working my ass off and accruing a bunch of stock options. After DDay we drew up a postnupt agreement where those options stayed mine should we ever divorce or should she ever cheat again.

I needed that to feel safe enough to even consider R with her.

[This message edited by nightmare01 at 7:33 PM, July 21st (Friday)]

For the record, she wrote to me and she states that she never said she would take everything and leave me with nothing. That it is in my head.

I'm familiar with Mefford's situation and that came up during the talk this morning, but honestly that only made things worse.

Honestly, I have no problem at all making sure she doesn't get screwed over with the mortgage, and I'm willing to take steps to make sure she knows that she won't get screwed over by me again. I have no desire to hurt her any more than I already have.

I think she sees this as a declaration of my sincerity and proof of change. She wants to see me put myself at risk to prove that my love is sincere and that my change is real. She sent a bunch of emails today after our conversation, and among those, she stated her hurt over the fact that, when I was with the AP, that I was planning to leave and be with the AP without concern for her, and assumed that my daughter would come with me, and she feels I didn't show any concern for whether or not she was going to be okay

... so yeah, she's understandably pissed and doesn't have a whole lot of wiggle room for me feeling like I need to protect myself when I didn't afford her the same. She also feels it's hypocritical of me for the reasons listed above.

I think the biggest problem(s) today were that she took me by surprise with this request (I thought we were about to discuss something much different), and, in my opinion, I think she was expecting resistance and selfishness, and jumped on it the moment I mentioned being worried about how I might be affected. So I ended up feeling blindsided and she ended up feeling like I don't care about how I treated her or the sacrifices she's made... honestly, I think the argument was happening before anything was ever said.

BS here

When you had an Affair, you crushed her emotionally.

Restitution towards her should be extreme emotional restitution, loving acts, affirmation, devotion, willingness toward absolute transparency and honesty...

.....not this financial servitude she's demanding.

What she is demanding right now will not ultimately heal or satisfy her in the end.