SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

What did/do you all do for the holidays? We are still in the house together and I hate it! He's fighting me on every little thing and won't even think about signing anything if his pension is in play.

Now all of the sudden he wants to be around his family because I never wanted to do that for the holidays...whatever!! But he's throwing me under the bus to look good for them...ugh.

Since our finances are split do I just buy gifts for the kids myself?

Help.

Plus I'm in silent treatment and/or things are wonderful but we are getting a divorce land. Tonight he came downstairs and sat with the kids and I and he played with the kids, wrestling around...

FF - How you handle Christmas is entirely up to you, but my personal opinion is that you should each handle your own gift buying/giving. When STBXWH and I were living in the same house last Christmas (he had filed but we did not even have a temporary order negotiation started), I basically held a completely separate celebration with the kids from him, and he did the same. Initially, he tried to ask me how we would handle gifts - would we get gifts together or not. I told him he had chosen MOW and filed and that ended ALL things together from here on out; I had decided we would already start our new "normal", and I did NOT consult him on it first. I bought the gifts I would buy for our children and he bought his. Our finances were not separated at that point, though, and I ended up paying for all the charges out of family funds anyway. (And STBXWH has zero concept of the word "budget" and what it means or what it is for....)

I feel for you - mine is still fighting me over every little thing, even though we have a temporary order in place now. Mine also tried the "play nice" thing and would try to do the friendly chit chat thing all while he was being a total $%^&* behind that facade.... I put him on "ignore" so strongly, even in person, that I know I came off as rude, but I just simply did not care - we were NOT going to play pretend in front of the kids and confuse the matter with them. Mine also suddenly became Mr. Extended Family, too, when before he never had time for them; I know he told them his lack of involvement prior was all my doing instead of admitting he just didn't give a flying rip.... Whatever.... With me "out of the way", so to speak, it will only be a matter of time until his current contact with them dies off to what are normal levels (nothing) for him; maybe then they will see reality, since I won't possibly be limiting him then....not that I truly care...they aren't anything worth worrying about losing.... (think mega moochers...)

I know it is tough, but if you can get a temporary agreement in place that assigns parenting time, at least, then when it is your time with the kids, it should state he should stay out of it/away from interfering in your time. (That means he would not be playing with the kids when it is your parenting time, and he would also be responsible to seeing to the kids' needs, like dinner, homework, and baths, depending on their ages, when it is his parenting time. He won't get to just come in and play Disney dad while you do all the hard work of parenting....) It will apply to you too, but, if you are like me, you don't really want to be around him anyway.... Of course, truly preferable would be that he agrees to move out....that would put an end to a lot of the problems. BTDT....

I think I'm just now realizing that STBXWH is NPD, which is ironic because I'm a trained psychotherapist. I'm also the daughter of a Borderline mother with narcissistic features and I had a past relationship with a NP. So how am I just realizing it now? When I first met WH, I thought he was one of the best, kindest men I'd ever met. After we got married, I realized (after being in denial) that he was an alcoholic. WH started to try to get sober and, during periods of sustained sobriety, I would notice that his personality was "odd". He didn't want me spending time with anyone else and would become very jealous when I did. He needed my constant attention. He always had to be right about everything. It felt like it was him against me rather than we. He didn't seem to have any empathy or consider my feelings - it was always about what he wanted. He constantly said that I didn't love him or care about him, which was absurd. But it wasn't until recently, when I told him I wanted to D, that I realized just how narcissistic he is. Next week would have been our one year anniversary. (Yes, he cheated on me 7 months into our marriage.) This is the text I got from him this morning:

I really do hope you have a nice time next weekend. Truly - you deserve to be happy. But it seems very appropriate that you will be spending our anniversary with your friends and at your sister's birthday, quickly dismissing the idea of even spending 5 minutes with me. Pretty much a microcosm of our whole relationship and where I always stood on your priority list. You always said I was crazy to think that, but that's how you always acted. And I'm sure your mom is thrilled by our misery because she gets her buddy back full time.

Now, I hardly saw my friends and family during our relationship because I didn't want to deal with his bullshit. I became very isolated. So he's delusional, firstly. Secondly, did he really take for granted that I would want to spend our would-be anniversary with him? I haven't seen him since Dday over two months ago. And the more I think back, the more I remember the little, manipulative things that he did. He doesn't want to see me. He just wants to win.

Sorry. Vent over.

. He just wants to win.

This is my XH, winning at all costs. Especially with the kids, if they visit (spend more nights a year at his house) his house more than mine... He feels he's won the love award. Lets fugged about the fact that he lives where the kids grew up. ALL ( or most) of their friends live in his vicinity. The kids are out with friends, eat at friends houses, they sleep at his house. He won.

I moved to a city where one daughter had a couple of friends attending college here. When my kids come to visit, we have dinner, play board games, rent movies aka spend tome with each other.

He wins..... It's ok, I know I'm a winner.

Hugs,

K

Spend the time with whoever you want... You'll be happier.

More hugs,

quickly dismissing the idea of even spending 5 minutes with me. Pretty much a microcosm of our whole relationship and where I always stood on your priority list. You always said I was crazy to think that, but that's how you always acted

OMG! I read that and got chills!! I have text messages from my stbx with almost the exact same message...I was the selfish one, it was always about me and my needs and everyone else was just lucky to be part of my world. He even has stated that he was last on my priority list even after the dog!!!

WTF!

FTG!

My 7 yr anniversary is on Sunday and I've already been told that he will be spending it with his GF celebrating new beginnings if 'you know what I mean'....

Hang in there!!!

bmf1978 (sorry if I got that wrong! new laptop is a challenge)

I am 3 months divorced and 10 months separated from my x after a 14 year marriage. I am seeing as time goes by away from him, more every day how "different" he really is.

He always accused me of the most bizarre things, not loving him, being lazy, being selfish, being a liar, "inappropriate" thoughts and actions. It was crazy making because I knew I was not thinking or doing these things but I questioned myself as to what I was doing to make him think these things about me!

Like you, in the beginning I thought he was the nicest, kindest, most understanding man. I thought I had finally met a man that was good, that truly cared. Then slowly the real man came to the surface. In my desperation to not lose the good man, I turned myself inside out to earn him back, I refused to believe his actions, I made excuses for him, I just did not want to see the truth. The more that time goes by the more truth I see.

As for the messages post separation, just plain nuts. "you betrayed me before I betrayed you", "you were never a real wife", "you are an empty vessel", "you always chose your sons over me", "I was abusive our entire marriage, you let me and I hate you for that! If you love someone you don't allow them to treat you like that".

They are all backwards, just like the accusations during the marriage, he accused me of being him. He projected his sickness onto me.

It is hard coming out of this. It is painful to see the abuse and that I did allow it. I am still trying to put together the pieces of the story. I believed so much wrong information and now I am trying to find the truth of what really was vs what he was telling me. It almost feels like coming out of a trance.

Don't listen to his words, you know your truth, believe yourself. No contact really does work wonders. I found that I craved contact, I had so much that I wanted to clarify, I felt like I needed closure, a true accounting of our story, a resolution between us. That is not possible because he changes his beliefs based on what he wants in the moment. He shifts from anger to sadness in a heartbeat but it is not real. Well, the anger probably is. What I am trying to say is the words have no meaning at all. At least for my x, he uses words as a tool to get what he wants, he will say anything to gain whatever it is, even if he doesn't believe it himself.

I have realized, I know the truth, I can trust myself, I can form my own story and closure because I am not lying to myself. I was there, I know what I thought, believed and did, his words do not have any meaning, they are just...nothing but noise.

Be strong, you will get through this. It just takes a while to see the light again.

I haven't been posting very much lately but apparently the need is back! I have been keeping up on everyone through reading but just haven't had the energy??? to put words down.

I have this spinning in my head and really need to get it out.

Years of the dance, he would rage and then the next day apologize. "I am sorry, I was just upset about, fill in the blank" or when you say that word or move that way or look at someone or.....you make me angry.

I would forgive, instantaneously, immediately, no discussion, no changes, nothing different. I would put the abuse in a box and go on as if nothing had happened, like it was an aberration and the nice guy was the real guy, over and over and over. Until, 2010, one night he raged and raged at me, my mother had just died, my son was in trouble with drugs, I was working 48 hours a week, he had just been fired and did nothing all day at home. I would come home, cook, clean and he would not even pretend to help. I was stressed to say the least. Hurting and in need of support but there was none to be had.

The next evening as I walked in the door, he was there, ready to apologize, ready to do the familiar dance.

He started with the moves, the open arms, the "I'm sorry". I didn't dance. I held up my arms, palms up, a push away gesture. "no, no more, do not tell me you are sorry ever again. I do not want to hear the words. Just stop treating me like that, just stop".

It hit me so clearly the other day. That was the moment when everything really spiraled downward. Not that it was good before but that was the moment that I stood my ground as shaky as it was. That was the moment that I ceased to give him the kibbles and that he needed to get away.

It was the moment that if I had been stronger I would have walked. That was the moment that if he were capable of change, introspection, bonding or love, he would have taken steps to stop his abuse.

The abuse never stopped, I just stopped reacting to it. It was like a switch was flipped inside of me. I completely withdrew, I went through the motions of doing the basics but I was gone.

It is such a strange, disconcerting feeling to look back at those 2 years of not feeling. I remember it as almost a conscious choice to stop feeling. I said to myself that night, "he will never make me cry again".

I could have lived like that indefinitely. I am grateful now that I am alive again. I cried yesterday. A friend at work, she could see inside me, even though I thought I was not showing the turmoil. She came up behind me, put her arms around me and said, "I love you". It still brings tears to my eyes. There is kindness in people, the cruelty is not just the way people are.

I just have to keep reminding myself to be grateful. I am grieving still, not for him, not for wanting him back but for the years lost, the honest love that I tried so hard to give, the frightened woman that I was. I grieve for how badly I treated myself.

I am grateful though now. My life has opened up so much. I was so isolated I had forgotten what compassion, kindness, laughter, good people were like. Now I can have that again and I can give it back too.

I am grateful for all of you too. You all have helped me on this path back to life. You have all reminded me of the kindness that is possible.

Thank you.

Thanks to all for your kind and thoughtful responses. I feel a lot better after reading them. The thing is, he really did make me question myself a lot during our marriage. What am I doing wrong? Why does he think that I don't love him or care about him? Do I not show it enough? I mean, as a therapist, I knew that there had to be some projecting going on. Even a layperson would be able to tell with him. But, with my history, I have always feared that I might come across as cold. I know that I become slightly uncomfortable when things become very intimate. The thing is - with him, I tried so hard to make him see that I cared, and he never did.

Anyone have an NPD H who had an "ideal" childhood? Mine maintains that he did, and his family really is lovely. During his 30s, he had some horrible things happen - one of which, his father killed himself, and WH found him. But the whole personality thing - it comes from childhood. I know - not for me to figure out. I've spent my whole life taking care of, and reacting to, other people. It's my actual career. And, yes, I've been in my own therapy for four years. But guess what I do there? Talk about other people. I don't even know who I am. Time to find out.

Anyone have an NPD H who had an "ideal

" childhood?

Mine did. His parents love unconditionally, and have paid the price for that love yearly. I know when he received his narcissistic injury, and can see the manipulative behavior that happened and grew from there.

My mom is a very self absorbed person. I feel she falls on the spectrum, no real empathy. Just empty words. My dad was her codependent enabler for a lot of years, they divorced 30 years ago.

I joke that I married my mother, and dated my father. Both cheated and I found SI. It's true.

My XH is very much like my mother. Both npd, him covert, her more martyr. It's taken me years to figure this out. I was raised on this dance. The one were I take responsibility for everything they do not want to handle. I'm well versed in the steps. I'm learning to not dance that dance. Now I need to rid myself of the guilt of not dancing to her tune.

Not sure XSO isn't npd. He is codependent, or maybe he is less npd than xso and I'm the codependent. His actions remind me of my father. That's all I can say right now.

I'm hoping I've worked out my parental issues enough so that the next person who comes into my life I am not working out these issues anymore.

Welcome bmf1978, we call ourselves The Tribe.

K

Anyone have an NPD H who had an "ideal" childhood?

My XW had a horrible childhood: repeatedly molested by her step-grandfather, rugswept by her grandmother. Her father divorced her mother, her mother married her divorce attorney and then divorced him, devastating XW. Then he came back, giving XW hope, only to leave again. Her mother (bipolar) had a string of boyfriends, leaving her and her sister to the care of the grandmother.

Since her adolescence XW was never without a boyfriend. She would meet someone else, cheat on her current boyfriend, or leave one for the other.

The pattern was repeated with me. It just took awhile longer. I have great sympathy for my XW's terrible childhood, but she repeated on me and our children. At a certain point we have to grow up and become a survivor instead of a victim. And certainly not inflict pain on others. I hope that doesn't sound cold. It isn't intended to be.

Dad,

I was never without a boyfriend for several years before XH. Even upon separation, I was targeted by a predator.Then a stalker. From there to xso. Only they broke up with me. First guy I broke up with was predator, and stalker after him. I was 42 at the time.

I haven't dated, nor have any interest in dating since June 2012. The drive is just not there anymore. I'm content with not dating.

K

Hi tribe,

To answer the last post, my stx has a great family. Big close Irish Catholic family. He has always felt like the outsider, not good enough but I don't see that at all having been part of his family for 9+ yrs. We are the only sibling/family that doesn't live within a hour of each other so it has made it difficult to do things with the family.

Over the past couple of months I have been doing a lot of soul searching as to why...he has told me in text messages that he wasn't happy, tired of living a lie, tired of doing what everyone expected of him so he's going to do whatever he wants and he's sorry that he has hurt me (not recognizing that he has also hurt the kids, our families, etc)...he sounds like a spoiled rotten 14 yr old.

After seeing the sexting photos that she has sent him and he had taken, he is a sick individual and if that is what he wants and who he is-WOW.

But I just wanted to say that I survived my anniversary. I was cleaning things yesterday and I found 2 cards from him that set me off and then later in the day I read them to him. I got absolutely no response but I felt good doing it. My MIL sent him a very long text about how he is making a huge mistake by letting the best thing that has every happened to him go and he will regret it all someday. She also talked about our wedding day and how happy he was and how much fun he had and how he was looking forward to this family he had created with me...interesting huh. He wasn't happy about that but who cares. I am hoping that my stxin-laws can convince him to move out, if anyone can get through to him, they can...

His attorney hasn't gotten the proposal to him because she was on vacation.

He is still living here, his reasons are 'because he doesn't want to abandon the house and his money in the house' however that's not true. He is too lazy to move and to cheap to move and his girlfriend lives with her parents...he is really here so he can know what I'm doing and what the kids are doing other than that I see no reason why he's here.

This whole in-house crap really stinks-I plan on talking to my attorney this week to see what we can do to get him out of here. I can't live like this much longer, I'd like to think I'm strong but there is only so much of this constant disrespect I can take.

I think if I don't have to see him everyday I will be able to breathe again, sleep again and eat again...

Thanks.

ff

I lasted not even three weeks with that. It was hell, he was either mad or drunk and crying. Yes 24 year old GF of the moment lives with her parents. Now I am one month into an apartment that I'm not sure how I will afford, but I couldn't last like that. I understand how your feeling.

Him leaving the house was the best thing for my frayed nerves. I finally had peace, and wasn't walking on eggshells anymore. Even my kids noticed.

It helped me be a better parent.

Good luck,

K

I have sent an email to my attorney discussing this in house separation and the holidays. She replied that he hadn't yet received the revised proposal from his attorney and questioned if he owed her money again.

I also said I would move out however she said absolutely not due to moving the 3 kids with me and disrupting them!

Why is he still here? What kind of sick joke is this?

And because he's not fighting with me anymore my 8 yr old thinks we are working our family out, daddy must be getting rid of her and I'm going to get my Christmas miracle.

Heartbroken.

I know he is lost. Why does it still affect me do much?

Last night he told me that he isn't happy. He left for work with tears in his eyes.

Yet this morning was his cold, matter of fact self in regards to asking me questions about the kids and school. He is very upset that he is no longer receiving emails from school (of course my fault) and that I 'chose' to not tell him about the report cards being online. I was fired from being 'cruise director', last I checked they were his kids too?

So...the mask is back up and the tough guy façade is back in place and...he also saw the dirty whore and she took his worries away doing what she does best...gag.

And his back hurts...his Dr said stress, I have other theories.

He wants to fire his attorney and was threatening my job again last night. Some way some how things have to break here before I do.

I feel like such a loser.

ff

Ff,

You are not a loser, you're under an incredible amount of stress.

What would you advise your BFF to do if she were in your shoes? Listen to your advice. I know easier said than done.

He's happy, he's sad, he's mad, .... Not your problem. Practice saying this: I'm sorry you feel that way. While thinking this: Not my circus not my monkeys.

His mask slipping is meant to draw you into his vortex, so he can spin you out while watching you spiral aimlessly. Don't let him do it.

Shields up!!!! Reinforce those boundaries.. They need to be up to the task of protecting you.

Hugs,

K

Josey,

Welcome to the npd forum.

My xso was/is involved with a 26 yo. He was 53 at the time. He married her this spring. We were together 8 years. He's not the reason I joined the npd forum.

That honor goes to my XH. I was married to him for 18 years. We have 4 DDs and a DS born still.

Any way enough about me. Welcome to the TRIBE.

Hugs,

K

Hi tribe,

Question for you all...type of VAR used? He's onto me using my phone and I don't feel comfortable without something on me able to record at any time...

Thanks.

FF

I didn't use VAR. My divorce happened quickly.

I think some have gotten them inexpensively on Amazon.

Maybe there's info in investigative tips?

I would ask that question on general for faster responses.

Good luck,

K