SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You healing and fixing yourself is not reliant on what he is doing. If you cannot go to IC, you can read books and go to meetings that fit what is going on with you to help work on your issues. You have to get healthy for yourself, not because he is going to help you or your M is going to survive.

Started back in IC this week. It will help me at least get my thoughts straight & really work on my healing. I will admit I had gotten lazy about doing this the past couple of years & now I am seeing the further damage from it.

So yesterday, I emailed my H letting him know that as part of my personal healing, I want to let go of some resentment I have been holding on to. I decided to let go of my resentment over his A. It is just time for me to do that as I know some things won't ever change about how he & I see that situation & it's not healthy for me to dwell on it any longer. It felt good to put it down on paper that I am letting it go. I want to...I need to.

I didn't expect any kind of response or reaction from my H, but he did express some more frustration with me. Basically, I am a horrible unrtrustworthy person who he just doesn't think he can ever believe in again. OK...that's his choice. It won't stop me from pushing forward with my healing. I won't let it & I will focus on fixing the broken mess of a soul I've been carrying around my entire life. I got one life & I choose to live better. After all the negative texts from H last night, I didn't think I would feel positive at all today, but oddly enough I do.

Don't get me wrong...I know he's hurting & has no clue how to push forward with me right now. We hit a huge wall this past month & I don't really know what will end up happening. I don't blame him for how he feels...those are his to work through & find some peace.

This is my first post in the madhatters thread and I never thought I would be here. My situation is tricky and so very convoluded. I had an EA/PA with my boss 2 and a half years ago. My H found out and contacted the other BS. They never stopped contact and had their own EA/PA over the last year. I found a new job and haven't had contact with my ex-AP since I left my job. (Almost 1 year ago and contact was business only after the affair had come out, which I really abided by). All of the contact between my H and the other BS was hidden and lied about. It started out to monitor my ex-AP and me but then turned into their own relationship. He confessed after her H (my ex-AP) found out. This was 6 weeks ago. He claims he has maintained NC,and has given me full transparency, for what I know to be. During the uncovering of my affair, he became a very good detective, so anything could go and I wouldn't know the difference.

We have been talking, but he isn't sure he wants to be married. We are just "trying to figure it out". I have spent 2 years in IC and have really figured out my "whys". He seems to be still attached in many ways to the feelings he had during his affair and the fact that he doesn't have them with me. He has been honest in sharing his feelings, (again, what do I know,) and is sorry for hurting me and lying, etc., but said he has taken away some good things from the affair. These would be "feeling" again, looking forward to things, laughing, etc. He does not have many, or really, any friends and she was his only "friend" for a very long time. He still values their friendship and feels she helped him out of a really bad place. (my doing from my affair, understandably so). He now says he doesn't miss her but having someone to talk to. He sees so many negatives in me yet still sees so many positives in her and what he took from the affair. He says this is not specific to her, but he liked a lot of things he felt during his affair. We communicate regularly and he is there to help me process his affair.

After being through this as a WS, it helps me have a level of understanding to all of this. At the same time, it's incredibly frustrating to see an affair for what it is, no matter what circumstance, and I feel he is placing his affair in a different ballpark. He says the right things about it being non-reality based, but I feel he is chasing to find a connection like he had with her during his affair. Whether this is with me or someone else, I feel put in a very difficult position. One, that type of connection just isn't real. The heightened sense of emotions, everything during an affair is just not 100 percent real. I don't think he sees that because he says they were "real" with each other, going through a horrible time with raw emotions, etc. He really cared/cares about her. I am all about making connections, etc. with him and I have been trying to for a very long time and he has been unavailable. I assumed it was from him being in pain from my affair when, in reality, he was in his own. I don't feel he has given enough credit to the impact his affair has on where we are today. I know the bomb I dropped on our marriage first, so I am not discounting that, but he has been the BS that has created distance and kept me in limbo for well over a year.

We have tried MC on and off and still go now. I am hesitant because he attended MC while in his affair and lied there, so for me, it brings a lot of crappy feelings. He has been to IC but stopped a long time ago. Says he wants to go back but to someone different, but has yet to go.

I have put demands of full transparency but that's about it. I am trying to respect his healing and my part in having my own affair.

We have had honest conversations about our marriage and what went wrong, in addition to his affair and mine too. We have done a decent job of going back and forth between all three things. I just feel like because of his affair and how recent it was, and his mindset about it, it is very difficult to be able to juggle all of this. I feel I have recovered from mine personally, I know he probably has not and now is in this new situation. He is not sure he loves me.

How can there ever be this great "connection" like he just had from me when he is still so conflicted about our marriage? And now I am too.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated......

I don't post here often though I read a lot. Being a MH is it's own special kind of hurt. So starters you must separate your A and his A. One line stood out to me when you said you dropped the bomb first. Well yes you did then he went and dropped another one that wiped out any foundations you had been trying to build. So you are both back at step one in your new roles. You must be able to still work on you and deal with the pain of being betrayed as well without blaming that betrayal on your actions. It seems you are using your insight as a FWW to see his actions for what they are, and that's good. It will help you to call them for what they really are. He needs to go into IC, or seek help somewhere to handle his pain in a healthy way and to figure out what in him made him capable of his own A. TBH if you feel like MC should be shelved until he accepts what he actually did then you should shelve it. MC does not work when someone is lying and he has done nothing but.

What has he said about his actions? Is he blaming you or himself? If he is talking about how real they were and their connection it certainly sounds like he is not exactly remorseful and is that is the case what are you doing for you? The other MH's will be along to give you sound and sage advice as well, hang in there.

So, BW says that when she was talking to someone online 9 years ago, when we were living another life in another town, that technically it's an OEA and that I'm really a mad hatter and suddenly I can't post on anything in wayward with a stop sign? Say it ain't so? Because I don't feel betrayed.. She says she stopped talking to him when she realized what it was becoming. I knew she spent a lot of time online - even when I wasn't working I remember it was hard getting her off the computer to do anything. I've been as wayward as they come and I feel like I've done some good on some of those stop sign posts. In many cases I know exactly what the person is going through - I want to share my experience with them.... and they want other waywards such as myself to do so.

I'm not sure I understand this particular policy/guideline, but if it's true, it's a bummer.

And if her slapping OEA on it really does mean I'm now a BS, what do I do about that knowledge? 9 years is a long time and we clearly had issues. It didn't give her the right to do what she did anymore than my EA #1. If anything her experience has helped her understand how I could've done what I did. It was really the PA #2 which I was not emotional/foggy about that pissed her off. That was something where the four of us together crossed boundaries and then I took it further despite her cautioning me many times, quite clearly, that she didn't and would never approve of anything between me and AP by ourselves.

So, I feel like my A's were "worse" and her thing was no big deal, and understandable considering I was putting my job before her at the time and spent long hours at it. I really don't feel any differently and I certainly didn't have my A's because of it - It was not even remotely a thought in my mind. But now that she's calling it an OEA, I forgive her and it doesn't change anything for me. Maybe had she been physical it would be a bigger deal to me.

So... what does all this mean?

MCJLM,

I concur that your marriage is starting over. I would try to read the articles and boooks suggested for a BS as if you have never read them before. Like a textbook or research. I would start with the fog. At 6 weeks out your husband is still in it especially if he is openly discussing his feelings for the OW outweighing his feelings for you.

I read here that for every month of an affair the fog can last about a week. I have found that to be quite true in my case. Go back to the basics.

I can only imagine how odd you must feel knowing your AP's wife had an affair with your husband. Trust me I hold no judgement but, this just screams revenge affair and revenge on your AP at the top of my intuitions lungs. The dynamics of this boggle the mind. However, there is STILL nothing new under the sun. There is a path out of it and into healing.

Take care of your physical needs. Try to stay focused on whatever the next right thing is. I am sure more experienced MH will chime in soon. You are reaching out for help, that is an excellent thing. Keep posting.

@ Unagie and Ayla,

Thank you so much for the replies. I'm on here sporadically now. I have spent so much time on here as a Wayward and my BS/WS has as a WS. I'm not sure how much time he spends on here now, I gather not as much as before. Our situation is so complicated. I think we have both outgrown our MC/IC. We spend hours, and I'll say hours because they are so many, talking on our own. A lot is me still asking questions, trying to piece together and make sense of his affair, and then it goes into my affair and questions or feelings he has about that. We have a lot of fights due to our communication style and a lot of good, productive conversations, as well.

I was not honest when my H found signs of my A and then even after in regards to my emotions about it. He seems to be more honest about those things, I guess. He still says he took a lot of good things from the "friendship" he had with her. That's how he justified this relationship and will admit to that. It was healing for him and got him off the floor from the hurt I caused him from my affair. I do understand that. He felt entitlement to have this friend who he could relate to and he felt "normal" that he wasn't the only one going through this. I don't get the sense that this was a revenge affair even though I did initially feel that. He did not have a very close friend he relied on during this time.It's strange to me they bonded over talking about their spouses and the relationships and marriage problems they were having and then it got so personal. He shared so much about himself with her, its so hurtful.

In my affair, I feel like it was about having this great connection with my AP, having fun and yes, we were personal, but we didn't share true feeling, hopes and dreams, etc. I had been craving to talk about our marriage with my spouse and its issues, yet he was doing that with her. It's just really hurtful. I feel removed from my AP as being the other BS. It's weird, but I can only see his affair with her. can absolutely understand how the situation occurred, but lately have been seeing it just from a BS perspective. She, (their relationship),truly impacted him for a year, even though he agrees, but not to the impact that I feel. He's completely changed as a person....is that because of my A and what it did to him or the relationship he had with her?

So bring us to now. It's been since 9/10/14 since he had contact with her and 10/5 since he told me. I believe in the fog and the time frame of 1 week per month of the A makes sense. We have agreed that the best outcome of this would be to R versus just trying to "figure it out". With that being said, we don't know how possible that is. It seems like an insurmountable task at times because of all of the damage. This, we both agree on. We are also both trying. He is willing to talk anytime. I sometimes feel that by talking about the affair, it makes him feel closer to it. He talks very specifically about it, at times defensive about her, but will answer any question I have. He says he gets defensive because of how I ask questions and again, my communication style. He says he wants to give me the answers I'm looking for, but I question if he just feels good talking about the connection he had with her. Does that make any sense?

Music is very important to him. His music choices have evolved during this entire process form my affair to his. He admits to his mindset changing but he didn't download songs specific to his feelings for her. I can't believe that based on some of the songs from his downloads. Just my opinion. So for example, tonight, we were not in a great place and decided to clean our house. He was playing his music and some of the songs from his downloaded history seemed so specific to her. It was trigger for me, we've talked about this before, he claims she had no bearing. My mind goes to, "is he cleaning and thinking about her and the time they had together?" Would he be that cruel to do that outwardly to me? My answer should be no, but he was that cruel to do that before. (I was cruel in my affair, too, so I'm not discounting that). I don't want to continue to bring that up because I know music is very important to him and I don't want to ruin a new connection for us. But I can't help but to feel that way. So I didn't say anything.

I know he is still hurting from my A and neither of us trust each other. I hurt him very badly and I know he has not recovered.

I do see some changes in him, but as a BS, I'm so so angry and hurt. I feel pressure to have this great connection with him like he had with her, but I am not in that place at times. He cannot come up with any negatives about her but will agree that their relationship was not reality based. It's tricky because they talked about very real things in their lives, i.e. my affair and her H affair, which was with me. What they went through together was real as far as that was concerned and everything else seemed to be too. The situation was not, as they had phone conversations a lot and saw each other 6 times ever. 4 for coffee, the next one for drinks and a kiss, and the final one for a hotel and sex. I find myself believing it was so real and knowing it was so not. Real life as far as living together and going through the course of a day with kids was not in there at all. He has said this too, but somewhere in ther is still a piece of him that lies with her and not me.

I'm struggling to make sense of this or just accept it because of what I've done or just simply accept it.

I feel so far removed from my affair but this seems very different. It took mea while, long time I guess, to get to real indifference, but not sure that will ever happen here.

Thanks for any insight....

New to posting in here... think I'm struggling with the MH title though I know it's true. This will be long but it's a long story. Thanks for taking the time to read it.

Anyone who cheated first ever feel like this is your karma?

I had an OLDEA (did I make that up?) It stands for online, long-distance, emotional affair. Oddly I never considered it an affair until recently. I just considered it flirting. Inappropriate flirting that was very wrong but never an A. Now that I read posts & books I realize that it does qualify and it makes me sick to think I did that.

I've always been outgoing & flirtatious. (ps I'm with a woman and I'm a woman in case anyone gets confused lol) My partner of 11 years is more quiet, laid back. Very trustworthy, dedicated, people pleaser, just plain perfect.

About 4 years into the relationship her sister's best friend and I started talking. Just normal talk. she was really easy to talk to but also very flirtatious. Over months it became more secretive bc my partner became suspicious. I said we just talk like friends. We would text, email & talk via my work phone. Months before it ended the OW called me to tell me she loved me. Granted I tell my close friends that so I was like "I love you too" and she said "No, like I am in love with you". At that point I thought I was too. Obviously it was not love, it was attention. The things she said that my partner didn't.

My partner found out through my email account about 7 years ago. I begged, pleaded, sobbed for her to not leave me. She agreed. Things were "odd" for a bit but not long. Basically she's the type to avoid conflict so we rug-swept it and moved on. Never discussed it, never went to MC or IC. Not once did I look back. Which was the problem.

I didn't realize the affect it had on her. How much I hurt her. I was just thrilled to still be with her & move on with our life. The years after have been very happy and good. She remembers a year after her Dday, she made a comment about it and I had replied "Why are you bringing that up, I thought you were over it?"

Wow. Never realized how cold that sounded. I didn't know. I had no clue how it all made her feel. She never liked to talk deep or about feelings or start any conflict, she would just go with the flow to keep me happy.

I bascially got off easy for what I did. Thought it was no big deal, it was over & that's what mattered. I never had any contact with her again,

I have repeatedly made the statement that my partner was very faithful & she would never cheat on me. It was as if I was gloating, saying no matter what I did she wouldn't do that to me bc she's a nice person.

Well, that was not true. One day early May I thought she seemed off, so I asked her thru my work email if she was ok. She told me things were different. I wasn't sure what she meant so I asked. She said things feel different. She feels different. I said they feel the same to me. That night she told me she didn't feel the same about me. She loved me but didn't feel like she was "in love" with me, that the attraction just wasn't there. I was devastated. My world crumbled. I begged her to please work on things with me & she agreed. She stayed in the house for 3 weeks, no counseling, just trying to "feel" things again. Myself, her friends & her family repeatedly asked her if there was someone else & she swore there wasn't. She just didn't feel like she loved me anymore and couldn't force it.

One night she went out with a friend to just talk about things. I found a FB msg from a girl from her work that said "hey, we're on our way". My heart sank. Who the F was this girl and why was she going there & contacting my partner. She was younger, yes she was pretty and she was going to meet my GF. WTF. I called my GF and said who the F is this girl & why is she coming there? She blew it off like it was no big deal, said she was with friends from her work & they knew my GF was out so they were just stoppig by. I'm not stupid, I felt differently, my gut felt differently. I was livid, sobbing, yelling, telling her to come home. 2 hours later she finally came home to tell me she didn't want to do counseling and that she needed some space to figure things out. I asked figure what out? She said her feelings for me, what was going on in her head. I again asked about this girl & she denied it.

June 6th she moved in with a guy friend of ours. She struggled with it, was sad & cried but didn't really know why, she just didn't want to leave her home. First 3 weeks of June she basically shut me out. I would send her quotes, tell her I missed her, try to talk to her, etc and she wouldn't reciprocate. Was short. Would say do you really miss me or the security? I just need time. She was so not like herself. She was cold, so distant & she's never been that way towards me. In this time frame she did finally admit she had interest in this girl. But kept saying they hung out only a few times & they were just friends. So I backed off & gave her time. She started IC a few weeks into June.

I spent those days living out of my garage chain smoking, losing 30 lbs, not going to work, not showering, not leaving my house. I had a friend who told me I had to get up, brush off & show her what she was missing. I tried to pull myself together & be strong, in front of her.

Mid July things progressed. She started texting me, emailing me, coming by the house more, telling me she missed me. I was thrilled. We basically dated for the next 20 days and it was wonderful. Late July we went to a concert away with friends & it was the most amazing time. She couldn't stop tellng me how much she loved me & how she never wanted to be away from me again. She asked me to come to counseling with her, I knew this was a good sign bc it meant she wanted us to work on things.

Aug 4th she decided to come home. I felt she was hesitating & asked her why if she wanted to be with me, she stammered said "idk just don't want things to get back to the way they were" so we talked about our issues etc and decided that we would work through it together. I said I have one request... You can't be in contact with that girl anymore. She said "Oh that's fine, we don't talk, we haven't for weeks" I said why's that? she said "She wasn't a good person & I realized that she wasn't someone I wanted in my life". So she deleted & blocked her from FB. But they still worked together & that was hard for me to deal with.

3 days later on Aug 7th I just felt something was off. I've known her for 10 years & could read her. I got very high anxiety bc I just knew there was something she had to tell me. I remember the look on her face when she asked me to go to counseling, not a smile, very sad & scared. Now I think I knew why she wanted me to go. So at the gym, while working out, my emotions got the best of me & I bold blank said "I know something's wrong" and she just looked at me and "do you really wanna do this here?" And I said by that reaction I'm guessing I don't. So I asked "did you sleep with her?" She looked at the floor & muttered yes. I've never felt such a rush of uncontrollable emotion in my life. I was shaking so badly I could barely walk. I called a friend to pick me up.

Now, 4 months in, details are different from "I slept with her". Over time & making her re-live it I have all the details. I didn't understand why she made me think it was worse than it was but her explanation is "what she did was wrong, it didn't matter what happened."

The story of the ONS goes as such: They went out drinking, drank a bit much so when it was time to leave my GF wouldn't drive (she never drives if she drinks) so they walked back to the AP's apt (many, many blocks away) when they got there they sat on the couch & the AP leaned in & kissed my GF. My GF reacted by standing up, she said she can't remember exactly why but thinks it's bc she was uncomfortable & just didn't feel right. The AP then stood up & kissed her again and unbuttoned her own pants for my partner. My GF then proceeded to put her hand down her pants but only to pull it right back out. Said she never took any action, she just pulled it out & said "I can't do this". The AP said "I figured". They sat in the dark, in silence for about 45 minutes then my GF up and left. She said she cried the whole "home" and when she got to the house she threw out all her undergarments. I questioned this, I said if this girl never touched any part of you (Which she swears didn't happen) why would you do that? She said she just felt dirty, awful and mad so that's what she did.

So present day, 4 months in. We're doing so so. I have struggled tremendously. She has been 110% supportive & wants nothing more than to be my wife some day. She hates what she did, she said everything she did to handle her confusion was wrong. She should have stayed & worked things out but she was so lost & numb she didn't even know who she was anymore. She knows that person those few months was not her & she hates that she let herself get to that point. But it happened, now we have to face it. Oddly, when this all came out she told me what SHE did she didn't consider an affair. Huh? You stalked her FB page for months, went on dates with her, told her you liked her & then ended up physically involved. How the hell is that not an A??? Boy how we skew our own mistakes.

So is this my karma for blowing my A off? For thinking it was no big deal? It's like I didn't recognize the hurt I caused her so my lesson needs to be that I feel that pain myself. I know many don't believe in karma, but I often wonder. I know we are responsible for our own actions but is this lesson one I needed to learn. I took for granted her faithfulness, gloated she'd always be faithful, yet wasn't myself. Even began flirting with another female years after but caught myself & called it off. Maybe I didn't learn. Maybe I was selfish for wanting so much attention. I didn't appreciate the love & attention I had right in front of me.

Thank you for letting me get this out, it helped me take on the title a little better. I know we both did wrong, I try to say what she did was worse bc it went to an intimate level but the more I read on here I'm beginning to understand that no matter what, cheating hurts and you can't compare.

[This message edited by broken1873 at 1:31 PM, December 10th (Wednesday)]

Let me start by clearing the air and stating that 6 years ago I had an A with 2OM. We were young, barely married and he left for the army (without telling me until the day he left for bc) and was stationed in Germany for 3 years without me. It was tough and I faultered. We have worked through most of it and I know that having the PA makes me a terrible person. I justified my actions because I was alone, being lied to from have a world away and we were miserable with our phone call only life style. It by NO means makes me right or the situation okay.

Fast forward 6 years when we are 'happy' and have a beautiful DS who means to world to us both...

My WS was having a PA for 8 months with a woman old enough to be his mother who worked with him. He would sleep with her on his lunch break, or after work and come home and kiss me and my son, sleep with me at night, and act like it didn't happen. He would lie about the boss needing him for something and thats why he wasn't home. I would be lying if I said I have NO idea. A few months back he became possesive about his cell phone and when confronted, lied and became slightly aggressive. I threatened to kick him out, and leave him. Told him if he was doing anything we were done. Well, it didn't stop. Not until his AP's ex husband SHOWED UP AT MY HOME to tell me he found pictures of my nakes WS on his ex's cellphone. Apparently she was tyring to R her own M while sleeping with my husband and a boyfriend out of state that we have found out about.

When confronted he didn't deny or admit. He simply sat shocked. Since then we have talked ALOT about it. He tried to lie the first time we talked. I found info to back me and prove the lies. Since then he claims to be "110% honest even if it hurts" and it does. Every question answered is a new stab to the heart.

I feel like a mental case! I'm okay one hour then a blubbering mess the next. I've had panic attacks because I just can NOT believe he would do this. It's only been a month since I discovered the absolute truth. We are TRYING to R but I am so very devistated and emotionally all over the place I don't know how to handel it.

Am I the only one who feels they need to know EVERYTHING about the A? The only one who is an absolute mental case? We will have a good day and then I will have a breakdown out of NOWHERE! I'm learning certain triggers make it worse, for instance, his job where it all happened kills me and he still works there every day. The AP is out of state (as far as I know). I just feel like a seriously crazy person. My emotions and thoughts are EVERYWHERE all the time.

I am researching IC and MC to help.

To top it off, my WH just found out about one of the two A I had six years ago so we are also trying to work through and heal from that. He is VERY willing to help with R. He is transparent, loving, kind, patient and supportive. All the things he should be and I still break down into a puddle of tears from time to time...

(Please, before anyone starts with the "Karma is a b*tch stuff, (got that all over another group I tried to seek help in) I know... I know I started it by stepping out of my M 6 years ago. I know this. I own that. It does NOT make my pain any less real or easier to handle. I still need help. please...)

broken1873

I read your enitre post. No this is not "karma". People outside of 'Madhatters' and SI and who have never actually been in your shoes may say that to you. Lord knows I have heard it ALOT. A spouse does not cheat on another to 'get back at them' or 'to see what it was like'. It does not make it right or fair. Your WS seems to be very open to R and headed in the right path, both of you. I'm glad you two are working it out. It is a VERY hard thing to do. I'm in VERY early stages of R and haven't even been able to see a counselor yet (thanks to the holidays) but we are talking... alot. I think talking helps.

Good luck sweety ((HUGS)) and keep your head up!

I'm beginning to understand that no matter what, cheating hurts and you can't compare.

^^^That's one of the most important revelations I've had since discovering my FWH ONS. Each situation needs to be dealt with (no rug sweeping) and one is not necessarily worse or harder than the other, but a separate entity altogether.

I too had a few long distance OEA's and really didn't realize the harm I was doing to myself and our relationship by my behavior. I had no idea what an emotional affair was before I discovered my FWH was in contact with the OW he had cheated on me with 6 years ago. Talk about a wake up call!

Finally, after years of false R and hours and hours of IC and MC, FWH and I have come to recognize and have redefined our crappy boundaries as well as other issues we have had in our 30+ year relationship and marriage. We are finally in true R and working hard together to make our marriage healthy, happy, and safe.

Are you and your partner in IC? FWH refused my suggestions to get into counseling for years before we separated, but honestly, it has made a world of difference in our relationship.

I think what happens in many cases is that one spouse has an affair and it's rug-swept, to a degree, or at least not acknowledged and dealt with like it should be by both BS and WS. Then the BS finds themselves in a position, not healed, and with justification, and they give the green light. And here we all are.

Betrayal runs deep. It cuts to the core of our psyche. Often we don't know how deep. That,coupled with FOO issues and its hard to recover from.

I get the karma, what did you think would happen too - because I did it first. But my husband's affair didn't take away his pain of being a BS. It masked it and distracted him for a while. But after all was said and done he still had BS pain and the pain of being a WS.

Its a mess dealing with being a MH. I can tell you that one person's hurt should be dealt with at a time and that is hard. GOOD MC and IC help. Bad MC and IC can hinder.

Good luck everyone!

I think what happens in many cases is that one spouse has an affair and it's rug-swept, to a degree, or at least not acknowledged and dealt with like it should be by both BS and WS. Then the BS finds themselves in a position, not healed, and with justification, and they give the green light. And here we all are.

That is so true. My mother, a madhatter herself, often told me "what's good for the goose is good for the gander." That's so F*@ked up. FOO issues??? For sure.

Thanks for your responses. It is very hard being a MH. I do still compare in my head sometimes & get mad at myself when I do. I always say "we were just flirting, she actually got physical"

Do I still think if mine turned PA she would have felt differently, yes. But can't prove that bc I didn't do that. Sometimes it really is hard for me to think that EA is equal, but I know it's all about pain & being betrayed. That's what I try to remember but as Trying2Survive1 said, you have these conversations and don't think of any harm being done, I really didn't. I've always been flirtatious, she knew that. She'd see it with friends & know it was just part of my personality. I wouldn't ever physically cheat on her, obviously bc I had the chance and did not take it. I guess, to me, PA is just different. I know I shouldn't say that & ppl in here are cursing me, we all have our own opinions & won't agree. I did hurt her, I did betray her but I just don't see the comparison. I flirted (like she) but only TALKED about sex. She actually took the action. Just still baffles me how PA are less in some eyes, but like I said we all have our opinions :) And I appreciate them all.

My example is: So your SO says to a long time friend "you're hot, I'd like to sleep with you"

Ouch, that would hurt to know your SO said that.

Or your SO says "you're hot" and then goes and sleeps with them.

Different? To me, yes. JMO though.

Either way, we both did wrong, we're in R and hope that I can get past the physical aspect of it. I don't know what was said between them, I know my SO isn't a flirt but is very kind & doesn't like to hurt ppl's feelings & this bitch was forward so I can see her asking things that made me SO say nice things to her, but I"ll never know what was said, I just know what was done. That's the hardest part. Often times I just wish I didn't know.

I am a madhatter

What was I freaking thinking????

Someone should just stone me!!!!!

I am no longer trustworthy to people....

Let me start by clearing the air and stating that 6 years ago I had an A with 2OM Both Ex's. One I was with for a long time and ended right before my WH and I started dating. I thought I loved him... My WH and I were having issues in a bad way and here comes my 1st love telling me he still loved & needed me... We were young, barely married and he left for the army (without telling me until the day he left for basic) and was stationed in Germany for 3 years without me. It was tough and I faultered. The 2nd OM was also an ex and I was literally just looking to feel something (anything) again while alone for 3 yrs with a husband half a world away who did nothing but fight with me. NONE of that makes what I did right, or justified, or any better but, that's the honest truth. We have worked through most of it and I know that having the PA makes me a terrible person. I justified my actions because I was alone, being lied to and we were miserable with our phone call only life style. It by NO means makes me right or the situation okay. I know and accept this.

Fast forward 6 years when we are 'happy' and have a beautiful 2 yr old DS who means to world to us both...

I found out 11-19-2014 my WH was having a PA for 8 months (or more) with a woman old enough to be his mother who worked with him. He would sleep with her on his lunch break, or after work and come home and kiss me and my son, sleep with me at night, and act like it didn't happen. He would lie about the boss needing him for something and thats why he wasn't home. I would be lying if I said I have NO idea. A few months back he became possesive about his cell phone and when confronted, lied and became slightly aggressive. I threatened to kick him out, and leave him. Told him if he was doing anything we were done. Well, it didn't stop. Not until his AP's ex husband SHOWED UP AT MY HOME to tell me he found pictures of my naked WH on his ex's cellphone. Apparently she was tyring to reconcile her own marriage while sleeping with my husband and a boyfriend out of state that we have found out about.

We live in a VERY small town and everyone knows everything. That's how the ex knew where we lived to come to my home and tell me. The OW knows I am home with my DS all day everyday alone while my husband works and so does her Ex. Apparently the entire town knows what has been going on and that I essentially live alone. WH is starting a new job here soon to at least get away from where the OW knows he is. She hasn't worked there since around May but the A didn't stop. As far as I know she now lives out of state and WH is very open with his phone, FB and everything else I want to check.

When confronted he didn't deny or admit. He simply sat shocked. Since then we have talked ALOT about it. He tried to lie the first time we talked. I found info to back me and prove the lies. Since then he claims to be "110% honest even if it hurts" and it does. Every question answered is a new stab to the heart.

I feel like a mental case! I'm okay one hour then a blubbering mess the next. I've had panic attacks because I just can NOT believe he would do this. It's only been a month since I discovered the absolute truth. We are TRYING to reconcile but I am so very devistated and emotionally all over the place I don't know how to handel it. Sometimes it is worse knowing that he is still suffering with what I had done to him so many years ago. Unfortunately, he didn't know about OM2 until he came clean about OW. He knew of the one time with OM1 but, I figured if we needed to start fresh, he had to know it all.

Now we are both working through all this pain and I'm having a difficult time being supportive to him like I need to be while I'm suffering with what has been going on for the last 8 months. It is new to me but the A with OM2 is old (to me). It's REALLLY hard to be a madhatter... I wish I wasn't.

Am I the only one who feels they need to know EVERYTHING about the A? The only one who is an absolute mental case? We will have a good day and then I will have a breakdown out of NOWHERE! I'm learning certain triggers make it worse, for instance, his job where it all happened kills me and he still works there every day. My emotions and thoughts are EVERYWHERE all the time.

We start therapy on the 6th. WH is doing and saying all the things that a regretful man should be doing and saying. He has been putting his best foot forward and going out of his way to make me feel comfortable again in our marriage. This absolutely helps but sometimes I feel like hes trying so hard and I'm believing him so easily that maybe he's still hiding something. This is what I mean by being a mental case.

I'm hoping to get any help and support I can from here through out my journey. Thank you everyone in advance!

MM - I'm so sorry you're here. It is tough. Here's the thing about being a MH, (among many things actually); I cheated first. It would have been easy to say no. But I didn't. Same with him. Being I said yes to something so very trashy it felt like my BS meant nothing to me. Same with him. Made me feel like I wasn't enough to keep him faithful. Because like I said, we can say no, easily. It's not like we fall into someone's arms.

sigh.. I see this so many times. the couple THINKS they have handled what happened but the BS is in so much pain, can hardly stand to look at that pain and falls off the deep end themselves. Betrayal pain is SO DEEP that its hard to recover from. It cuts to a person's psyche and damages them for years.

When I had and affair and then my husband had one I thought, ya know, maybe he should take a sabatical for a month and figure out what he wants. He didn't. Couldn't. He just went to work the next day. he was so damn afraid of looking what we each did in the eye. Neither spouse can be afraid of this. Infidelity is THAT BIG OF DEAL to a person/marriage. If only folks would realize that - especially me, when I first jumped off the cliff..

So then here we all are. Smarter about life but having to heal a lot of pain. A shit ton of pain. It can be done. It means both parties getting themselves very very healthy. Deciding what they value, having good people in their lives, carving out what is important to them, making a commitment.

It gets better with time. You also have the guilt factor of being the first one and occasionally thinking you caused your own pain. Very difficult.

I hope you guys are in IC/MC. Welcome to the MH forum.

rachelc

It's so hard to be a MH. I feel like we probably did not work through my A 6 yrs ago and it may have been a deciding factor in his 6 yrs later. It does NOT help that when he fessed up to his I had to confess the full truth about mine and now he has to deal with that while trying to help me through this.. ugh it's just SO much! So much pain, so many lies, so much hurt and devistation. I find I can't even help him through my A from all those years ago while I am dealing with the open wound from him from now. I can't wait to start MC this coming week.... I'm afraid it may make it worse for a time because we are finally in an 'ok' place but I know that we can not do this alone...

MM,

Are either of you doing IC to work on yourselves and figure out what led each of you to go outside of the M?

Tired girl

We start counseling next week. I know why I did. He was in Germany for 3 yrs without me and we had a phone call only relationsgip minus 30 days a yr. His phone calls were spars and even nil at times. He would disappear out "with the boys" all weekend and our joint bank account would be drained at the end of it. Some stories of "I made out with this girl one time" are slowly coming out now, not that any of it makes my A any better.

I'm sorry, maybe it makes me a terrible person and maybe the IC/MC can help set me straight but I almost feel justified. Lord help me but I was so alone and so miserable and he was partying it up and sight seeing in the red light district of the world and I was living with his parents miserable searching for someone who gave a shit about me and found mild solice in 2 ex bfs.

He found comfort in the arms of another woman while I was home raising our son and wondering why he didn't come home on lunch or for an hr after work. Our marriage was going well from what I thought...

See my head is in such a bad place that I can't even feel guilty (for lack of a better term) for what I did after finding out about his 8 month full on relationship with this woman 15yrs his elder.