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I am hoping for your sake that there comes a day when he wakes up and realizes that he needs to fix himself as well and he does it. Then you are able to share that letter with him and he will hear you. Really hear you.

Hugs. Feeling our pain as both a BS/WS is not easy.

Doing some digging and lots of thinking about the current situation and a few things my IC has said.

I think I'm co-dependent. Actually, that's crap. I know I am. I just started reading Co-dependent no more and it's like it was written about me.

Anyone else experienced this?

I haven't actually read that book, but have heard enough about most of the dynamics to know that HL and I practiced being very co-dependent with each other. It is something that we both try to watch now.

A lot of things in that book hit home with me, BBT. Lots of annotations and highlights in that one!

The positive thing is, once you recognize the behavior, you can start to change it.

For sure, regarding the Codependent No More book. Some of it I already knew due to the addiction issues in my FOO and those family members working programs and my dad doing Alanon...but there was a lot of revelatory stuff in there for me regarding the reasons why us codependents are that way...i.e., the desire for control.

It was kind of a bitter pill to swallow, because you spend so long telling yourself "I don't want to control them, I just want them to do exactly what I'm telling them to! They'd be SO much better off if they'd just listen to me!!!"

...and then you read the book, and you're like, "Duh."

For myself, that revelation was the easy part...the 'letting go of the outcome', hands-off-the-steering-wheel aspect was hardest for me. Not criticizing, complaining, or getting angry when my wife wouldn't do what I thought was the {best/healthiest/most logical} course of action.

Took me a while to get that part down...or to improve, anyway. I still have to choke down some controlling-type stuff that pops into my head from time to time.

The only issue I had with the book is the religious tone of it. That's not a criticism of the book itself, it's just an aspect that has zero resonance with me...I can mentally reframe some of the ideas, but when it's God this or God that, it loses me.

I'd still really recommend it to someone who needed it.

This may be a really dumb question, but...what is the Madhatters Only Thread? Or who is it for? I know what a Madhatter is, but just not getting this...I guess?? HaHa

Trying2LoveAgain - A "Madhatter" on SI is someone who has worn both "hats" in their current relationship: wayward and betrayed. This thread is for those of us whom are specifically in that situation.

It's going to take a while for me to sort through it, I don't really know where my co-dependency comes from. I don't know any alcoholics or anything like that.

I did have an abusive boyfriend when I was 16, I was with him for three years. And BH's drug use in the first two years of our relationship while I was pregnant and with a newborn was a real problem but I don't think he was an addict.

I can relate to every word of your post, Ascendant. The bits about God lose me too.

[This message edited by BrokenButTrying at 1:36 AM, May 15th (Thursday)]

I'm not sure if I was co-dependent before the affairs, but I sure was during his acting out. One of the hardest lessons to learn was letting him own his actions, even if he DIDN'T own them, that didn't mean I needed to. very hard.

Many times when both or just one partner get healthy, they realize it was the dysfunction that held the union together. It's scary to just work your process and not know what the outcome will be. There is no guarantee we'll get healed and still want to be married to the same person. It may no longer work for either partner. In the end though, better to be healthy and strong and be set free.

Rebreather said this on a post in Recon.

Hit me like a ton of bricks. But maybe in a good way?!

There are over 200 points on that checklist in Co-D No More and it's a list of my entire personality. There are only a handful of points I can't recognise in myself. How I have not realised this before is beyond me. I must have been living under a rock.

I don't know for sure but I doubt co-dependency is usually linked to A's. However, BH had been away for nearly five months when I had my A and I'm thinking his absence + my co-dependency = A? Will need to dig into it in IC.

I have all the answers for BH's problems. If only he would listen to me, he would feel so much better

I can't fix him. My A caused him incomprehensible damage but ultimately, his healing isn't my responsibility.

I've got a long way to go before I am undependent. One day at a time, right?

[This message edited by BrokenButTrying at 8:03 AM, May 15th (Thursday)]

I can't even begin to make sense of what happened tonight.

The last couple of days I've been doing the 180, focusing on myself and doing well with processing my feelings. I've felt really good about myself, much stronger.

Husband called me on it. Said I'd been acting weird, like I hate him. I think he means that I haven't been following him around like a lost puppy.

I said I didn't hate him, I was just working on a lot of personal stuff, healing etc. He started talking about how I'd been lying this whole time by saying I wasn't going to give up on our marriage and would wait for him until he was sure and that it was obvious now that I wasn't even bothered that it was over.

He ends our marriage, says he doesn't love me and can't forgive me. And now he's angry that I'm not falling apart and concerned that I won't 'wait' for him

I said that I had been fighting tooth and nail for this marriage but that falling apart wasn't going to help either of us or the kids. I was fixing my shit and that was me doing the best thing for my family.

Then he got angry saying breaking up with me was the best decision he ever made. Then he got angrier saying he was doing me a favour, that I could be happy now for the first time in six years.

I don't even....

What the hell?

Someone help please!

[This message edited by BrokenButTrying at 4:51 PM, May 16th (Friday)]

I imagine that when one starts the 180, things get worse before they get better. It's a change and I'm guessing the fact that the spouse being 180'd can't control the other spouse pisses them off royally and they try to get the BS to jump back in the drama ring with them. Don't fall for it.

However this:

saying breaking up with me was the best decision he ever made

would be hard to recover from. Stay the course and HIS true nature will be revealed.

I'm no expert on the 180 but this is what I would do.

[This message edited by rachelc at 7:34 AM, May 17th (Saturday)]

I've never done the strict 180 in the context of infidelity, but I can tell you from experience of detaching for other reasons: it does indeed get really hard before it gets easier.

It just takes a while to get all those emotional 'hooks' out of the other person...meaning, to get to a place where their every emotional twist-and-turn doesn't result in you being yanked about. It's gut-wrenching at first, because your heart (and the corresponding codependent brain processes) are telling you to chase, pursue, fix, and soothe the other person as a means of calming your own anxiety that has been fastened to their emotional state for so long.

It takes a while to to be able to tell those inner voices to STFU, because you now know better you've been burned by those processes before.

[This message edited by Ascendant at 9:44 AM, May 17th, 2014 (Saturday)]

It's gut-wrenching at first, because your heart (and the corresponding codependent brain processes) are telling you to chase, pursue, fix, and soothe the other person as a means of calming your own anxiety that has been fastened to their emotional state for so long.

This is what's going on today.

He's at the house, we always spend weekends together as a family. He's being affectionate and flirting.

It's really hard because all the old emotions are still there. But things are different now, my boundaries are different, I'm different. If he wants to be in this M he has to own his shit and fix himself. He can't 'nice' his way back in.

He's at the house, we always spend weekends together as a family. He's being affectionate and flirting.

It's really hard because all the old emotions are still there. But things are different now, my boundaries are different, I'm different. If he wants to be in this M he has to own his shit and fix himself. He can't 'nice' his way back in.

Good. What he is doing is called the push and pull power dynamic. He pushed you away, and now he is trying to pull you back in. Since you are not falling for it right away, expect him to amp it up. If that doesn't work, don't be surprised if he gets mad or accuses you of being in another affair. Be prepared for what is coming down the road emotionally from him, he has been used to pulling your strings for awhile. All you need to do is control yourself, you don't have to take responsibility for what he is feeling. Easy to say, hard to do.

What TG is talking about here has also been called "Hoovering". Here's a great link on it for you, if you'd like to learn more:

http://wwwq.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=480828

He left a little while ago. He triggered over something on the telly. I asked if he was ok, he said he was and shortly after he went back to his place.

Then he started texting me asking how to deal with triggers. I'm not a complete bitch, he triggers because of my A so I put the 180 on hold and talked to him about it. Gave him advice from SI on how to cope with them.

Throughout the conversation I kept reminding myself of my responsibilities; I cannot fix it for him, it's not my job to help him heal but I can support him in his own healing.

We had a really good chat about it all. He seemed to be willing to help himself.

We'll see. I'm going to keep doing my own thing. If he does the work, great! If not, I'll still be working on the new and improved version of me.

LW, great minds think alike. I was talking to YOP earlier and I said BH was hoovering!

ETA, I must stop calling him BH at some point. What do MH's call their spouces on here?

[This message edited by BrokenButTrying at 6:15 PM, May 17th (Saturday)]

I still will refer to HL as my BH when I am on a thread, after all he is. And he will refer to me as BW, or sometimes you can use BS if that feels easier.

For quite some time I have just been referring to my wife out here as "my wife". As far as labels go, I guess she would be my BG/FWW (betrayed girlfriend/former wandering wife), and I would be FWB/BH (former wandering boyfriend/betrayed husband). MUCH easier just to say "wife".

Besides... I am quite proud of calling her my wife these days.