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Madhatters Only Thread

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tired girl posted 12/5/2015 20:25 PM

Understanding, understanding, and yeah, more understanding and support. The anger is usually more intense during A season, and he may not even understand why. Sit down and have a talk about it.

pinkishgraycloud posted 12/8/2015 10:57 AM

hi all, I'm new here. I just have some thoughts that I don't even know how to formulate. Does the guilt ever end? I cheated first way back before my husband and I were married. Since then he has had 2 As with 2 women (that I know of). Each time I forgive because I am still guilty for what I did to him first. He was so sweet and innocent before I cheated on him, I feel like I changed his whole personality after that. He has no issue blaming me for his As either. The last Dday was 11-11-15 when I found out that he was still seeing his AP that he had said he cut off last year. I'm on the verge of forgiving him again because I still have that same guilt from 12 years ago. I can't let go and I keep beating myself up over it and I feel like this is karma and that I should just let it burn. Another side of me wants to just get up and walk away. We are still young and we can start new lives...but I can't just let go. This hurts like hell.

tired girl posted 12/15/2015 11:18 AM


Sorry I did not see this post earlier.

You cannot live in guilt for your A and allow him to use this to continue to cheat on you. What you are doing is not having any boundaries for yourself and that in itself is just as bad as you cheating.

At some point you have to draw a line and have enough respect for yourself to say you are not going to tolerate it.

What kind of work have you done on yourself since your A's?

MB2014 posted 12/16/2015 17:47 PM

Any positive R stories please? xxx

Sadlady14 posted 12/17/2015 01:41 AM

PGC, you have a private message.
I also agree with tired girl. You are responsible for what you did and he is responsible for what he did. Maybe he wouldn't have cheated if you hadn't first but it doesn't absolve him. We are each responsible for our owns actions despite what bad circumstances we are in.
My H has clung to the I never would have if....a little to long. I have said that might be true yet you did it and you are responsible for it and yes, he is starting to deal with it.
I think we are in R. We are in the middle of my A season. Going ok. We are both working hard. What has helped the most for me is two things that seem in opposition but are not. 1). Learning to take care of myself. 2). Killing the selfishness and entitlement that in large part got me into this situation. So doing what you need to do to be emotionally and physically well without hurting anyone else and getting rid of the self serving behaviors that create pain for others and myself.
It has not been easy. I have had some very dark days and moments-even recently. And now I think of the really hideously terrible days I have survived and think I can do this. Keep moving toward your best self. Hopefully, your H will be onboard. I saw you are in limbo.
Are you in MC? Have you agreed to move forward together?

MB2014 posted 12/18/2015 09:07 AM

Sadlady14 - thanks for the reply! No we're not in MC, we did try but tbh all I did was cry so it seemed unproductive (this was a year ago however!). I'm starting IC again in a few weeks so we will see how that goes! I find it hard expressing openly how I feel (almost like I don't really know how I feel at times other than being numb!!

My husband wants us to R and I think I do too but I think I'm scared to commit myself to him again like i did in fear of being hurt again! At times I stil feel very raw to his ability to pay an escort for sex and to meet and chat 😩😭😢

tired girl posted 12/18/2015 09:41 AM


Have you done any IC for yourself and what has your H done to work on himself to make himself a safe partner?

MB2014 posted 12/18/2015 13:39 PM

Tiredgirl - initially I started it togetherwith MC but I found that all I did was zone out not answer questions honestly (anger I think) or cry! I did 6 weeks worth nothing since Jan last year! My H has done 14 months of solid IC. I'm starting IC in jan again xx

JRod posted 12/25/2015 18:12 PM

Do i qualify as a MADHATTER if I am BH now but in a previous relationship was WH?

SI Staff posted 12/25/2015 18:41 PM

Jrod - Madhatter status means that you have been both betrayed and wayward in the same relationship.

Since your experiences were in different relationships, you are not a madhatter, and you cannot post on this thread.

Thank you.

Sadlady14 posted 12/28/2015 00:43 AM

How is it going MB2014?
I think if you had so much past difficulty in MC, I would find a new counselor for that. One of their roles should be to help you two identify and work through different feelings. Another thought is I would recommend not trying to cover too many topics at once. It can be too overwhelming. Maybe pick one or two and really use a session to move forward on those.
I have learned I have not been good at identifying feelings in the past and it has helped to say to myself, "Why am I feeling anxious now?" Or why am I angry, sad,etc. there is usually another underlying feeling.
It sounds promising that you both want to move forward and I think the trust and commitment pieces are more of a process than a decision although at some point I think there is a decision in terms of a turning or tipping point.
Are you all talking about issues together since you are not in MC?
Take care.

AngelFlower posted 1/5/2016 15:49 PM

Hi all...new madhatter here....

LosferWords posted 1/5/2016 15:58 PM

Hello and welcome, AngelFlower.

AngelFlower posted 1/6/2016 13:48 PM

Thank you for the welcome. This is a hard place to be.

LosferWords posted 1/6/2016 14:27 PM

It is a hard place to be, but you aren't alone.

How are things going currently in your situation? Anything you want to discuss?

This thread can get kind of slow at times, but we are here to help.

tired girl posted 1/6/2016 14:31 PM

Hello Angelflower,

Is there anything specific that you need to talk about?

AngelFlower posted 1/6/2016 15:35 PM

I am not sure how things are going TBH. I am 5 months out from finding out about my husband's infidelity.

I have a long story...
My husband and I have been together since we were 17. He has a child from a high school girlfriend, who is now 18. We have two children together.

We married at 19. In 2002, I cheated. First, I kissed an old boyfriend that I had not quite gotten over. I realize now how ridiculously silly this was. I dated him when I was 15. Why in the world I was still attached to that...I have no idea...but I kissed him in hopes that it would rekindle. This was the first time I cheated. Later in 2002, I had a one-time physical encounter (not sex) with a mutual friend of my husband and I. This was the second time. It was awful. I could not believe what I had done. It was also an EA...sort of...I let a friendship slip way out of line, not really bc I wanted to be with this guy, but primarily bc he pursued me and I did not know how to say no to my "friend." I confessed both of these to my husband. The first the very same evening and the second within a week.

My husband and I have both been sexually adventurous and open...with each other...and others before we were together. In 2002, he asked me for a threesome. Being a wild child, I said yes. He proposed I go first. So I did. My husband considers this my third PA. I do not feel that way. He had every opportunity to stop it and tell me he wasn't ok. Although I am truly remorseful for it for a multitude of reasons, I do not think it was infidelity. He tells me that my infidelity, including the threesome, was part of the "reason" he did his.

When we were dating, I walked in on him in a bar kissing another girl. When I was pregnant with our first child, he introduced me to a "friend." He ended up having a brief, semi-PA with her. Through the years, there was inappropriate texting with many others.

In 2008, I found him sexting a girl in another city. I thought that was the last of our issues. I now know how wrong I was.

Turns out he had a full-blown year long affair with a co-worker in 2008 at the same time he was sexting one girl and texting at least 3 more regularly. I just found out in August. Why? Because I had an ectopic pregnancy last year, which had to be removed by surgery. I had extremely serious life threatening complications that then required a second surgery. Both of these surgeries left me with pelvic adhesive disease. I can never have another child. I live in significant pain on a daily basis. In investigating the cause of my pregnancy loss, it was discovered that I had been infected with chlamydia, which blocked my tubes irreparably, causing the baby to implant there. I confronted my husband...and here we are...I have no idea how to even start healing.

itsmyvwbeelte posted 1/7/2016 09:27 AM

I thought I would check out this thread. I am a MadHatter too.

Just my MadHatter story...

Found out about my WH's 5 day affair on 10/17/14. Went out with some friends that night just to clear my head. Nothing happened but when I got home my WH wasn't there (it was like 1:30 am). He got home about 3 and fed me a story that he was so distraught because I was leaving him over something stupid that he took a handful of xanax and passed out in his truck in WalMart parking lot. I didnt quite buy the story but wasn't sure what was going on. I was too crushed to think it through. WH changed drastically after that night, he got all depressed and suicidal, stopped performing sexually and stopped eating. I thought it was because he missed that skanky OW. But my gut just kept telling me there's more. He kept talking about a lump in his lip, looked like he kept biting it in his sleep so I didn't think it was anything serious but because I could and wanted to I told him it may be HPV for the dirty OW. He said they only kissed so that could be it, I said dont forget your ding-a-ling isnt working anymore. Kept that story up for about a week. He kept sinking lower and lower. One more I text him and said I see you are searching out STDs in men (I looked at his search history), just be honest, you had sex with her right? He said the dreaded yes. He said he knew for sure I was done with him when I went out with friends on 10/17/14 so he called up OW and they met, they talked about their future and how he was certain our relationship was done and then they got it on. They had a FWBs relationship long long before me. That was the first time in our relationship that those 2 had sex. Guess it wouldnt have happened had I stayed home and talked to him instead of going out and letting his imagination go wild. He did it though, not me. This all happened 11/22/14, 3 days before Thanksgiving.

I was distraught. I was so very upset. I left work and cried all day long. I then got incredibly pissed. Decided I wasn't doing this with him, how dare he lie to me for 5 weeks over what really happened? So I messaged an ex-cow on FB that I knew had the hots for me. My message was plain and clear and just said "wanna f*ck?" He said hell yeah and I told him I would be at his house at 8 am and he sent me the address. I never had any connection with this guy it was just someone I knew was interested in me. I figured, sex with someone else would help me break the heart-heart connection I had with my WH. So, the next morning I told WH where and I was going and sure enough I showed up at this guy's house and we had sex. He didn't get off, how could he with a crying mess under him, lol. It was actually quite pathetic. I left there and had 11 missed calls from WH. Turns out he was in denial, he didn't think there was anyway I could break my vows and do that.

He met me at my work and we talked for awhile in the parking lot. It was at that moment that we decided we would try R. He called OW while I was there and told her he loved me. She yelled at him for breaking her heart that she loved him but yes she could tell he loved me by the way their sex had gone. He told her it was all out in the open now and to never contact him again. She told him he broke her heart in 2 and hated his guts and left and slammed the phone down on him.

The road to R has been rough. My WH got a taste of his own medicine and he has said he needed that. He needed to feel betrayed. I guess for the most part my act of betrayal is never mentioned.

I wanted to chime in here though and say hi and offer any wisdom and advice I can. We are almost 14 months out from the affair now.

LosferWords posted 1/7/2016 09:30 AM

AngelFlower - I am very sorry for all that you have gone through. That sounds like an awful experience, and I am sorry for your loss.

What have you and your husband been doing in the last five months to work on this? If individual counseling (IC) is an option, I would recommend that for both or either of you. It helped me a lot, and I think it helped my wife a lot as well.

Is your husband showing remorse for his infidelity and the impact it has had?

One trap that us madhatters can run into is deflection. It really helps to discuss and process one partner's infidelity at any given moment, other wise you can end up in this game of ping pong where you are saying to each other, "But, look what you did!" That really does not help, and I think a lot of us in this thread have fallen into that. Have you and your husband fallen into that dynamic as well?

Sending you strength.

AngelFlower posted 1/7/2016 10:09 AM

Losfer...we aren't in any kind of counseling right now, although I wish we could be. Our schedules just don't make it feasible. I work an hour away from home in a small town and there are no counselors in the town I work in. My husband is a full-time engineering student, who takes care of our 2 younger daughters when I am at work and he is working when he is not in class because our financial situation is very tight (largely because of other issues, including private school for the girls, but also because the STD resulted in roughly $130K in medical expenses from 3 surgeries and we have to pay copays and deductibles on all that).

Sometimes we do get into the ping pong, but it has been better lately. I think he is finally realizing that my infidelity was very long ago, and although it will be a part of our life forever, it is truly in the past. I make sure I don't rugsweep though. Although his is more recent, I know I hurt him and I am so sorry for that. So we talk about his hurt too, and that is ok with me.

What we struggle most with is the time lapse. His infidelity was over 7 years ago. He ended his infidelities on his own. He says he realized what he had done to "his beautiful wife," ceased contact with his sext/text APs, and ended it with the (main) AP, telling her he wanted to work it out with me. And there is really not much of a doubt in my mind that he has been faithful since then for a variety of reasons. But I just found out. I struggle to reconcile the time lapse to myself. On one hand, I see the faithful partner he has been. On the other hand, here I am, left with the emotional and physical devastation, as well as the grief of losing our child, knowing he caused it.

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