SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I keep coming back to these thoughts: that the OW's appeal is based on the dysfunction in her reaching out to the dysfunction in you from your childhood. Everything you say is making me think that some of the appeal of her neediness and volatility is that it touches something that feels kindred in you.

Yeah, I don't think there is any question about that. I didn't realize it at the time. But, I knew that I loved the way she needed me. For example, when she got laid off(a real drama, not one she created), which is a better description than her getting fired, it felt great because I got her through that. I helped her with her resume, basically forced her to go to interviews, was a reference for her, and helped her get a job that I really think she can be good at. I can't tell you how happy I was when I was able to do that.

When her mom had a health scare (another one of the real dramas), it made me feel great that I was the one that she wanted to be there to help her get through it.

However, I also think part of it was knowing that it was keeping her from finding someone else. I didn't want to give her a reason to find another guy that would be there for her.

And as others have pointed out, that might very well not sustain in a long-term relationship (although personally I suspect the more likely scenario is that if your relationship waned in drama, she'd find someone else to sustain it with).

I've thought a lot about that in recent days. I think 1 of 2 things would have happened, or maybe both:

1. I think she would have had an affair for the same reason I did. She would have eventually lost that infatuation feeling, thought she was no longer in love, and found another source for her excitement. She was the one that always told me that being "in love" was the way that it was supposed to be, and I believed her. It felt like she was so right in the moment.

2. I would have had an emotional affair with someone else. I don't know if it would have turned physical or not, because obviously I was very attached to OW physically. But, I think at some point, I would have felt the need to be supported more than she did emotionally. I probably would have struck up a friendship with someone very much like my wife and thought to myself that this person got me and cared for me more than OW.

Either one or both of those would have happened, or we would have just been miserable and screwed each other's brains out and lived with it.

But, I'm saying this as someone who has the benefit of being able to look back on it for what it was. None of these thoughts ever crossed my mind, at least with any level of specificity, during the A.

Honestly, if you hadn't been screwing her, or wanting to screw her, would you even have liked her?

I don't know. I can remember when I first met her, I thought she was pretty smart, but not all that smart. I remember thinking she wasn't very funny at all. I did think that she was attractive, but not like I did by the time I began the A. During the A, I thought she was one of the smartest, funniest, most attractive people I had ever personally met, and I still have those thoughts in my head more often than not. (I know I'm still foggy.) But, I've seen 3 new pictures of her since we split up and every single one of them I said, "She doesn't look good in that picture."

But, it wasn't until I had other co-workers tell me how much she talked about me that I began to find her funnier, smarter, more attractive, etc. She talked about me constantly, told them she wanted to do things to me, told them she thought I was brilliant, great, etc. By this time, I had seen her out and saw how many guys would check her out. (What guy doesn't check out the cute girl with big boobs hanging out a little, right?) Those two things combined made me want her. It was like, "Those guys want her and I can have her, and I'd bet she'd be a hell of a lot of fun to play around with." That's really as deep as my thinking went when I decided to get involved with her.

Then, the further I got involved, the constant admiration really built me up. I recognize that now, and didn't then. But, I think that was powerful. But, between what I just described, and what you mentioned earlier about our respective dysfunctions it made for a pretty powerful addiction over the course of time.

I'm not really sure if that answers your question, but its the best I can do.

I'm not diagnosing the ow, and I'm thinking more of tendencies than a real disorder, but a lot of what you say about her would seem to fit some of this mold:

That is absolutely crazy, because I read about that for the first time in After the Affair a few weeks ago and went to that exact same wiki page. It is dead on. I'm like you, I don't know if she has the disorder or not, but she definitely has some symptoms or commonalities with it.

She also was probably an alcoholic. I say that because she would have huge mood swings when she would drink. I would either get mind-blowing sex or have her screaming at me and trying to jump out of the car on the way home. Again, I always blamed it on the situation. She knew I was dropping her off and going home to my wife, so I got why she would be sad and the alcohol only made that worse.

But, to tie it up to your first statement. I wanted to help her fight her alcoholism. Having said that, I knew that in doing so that she would have to "make amends" with those that she hurt, and one of those would have been my wife. So, I chose self-preservation of concealing the affair over helping her in this regard. In the end, I just rolled the dice and lived with the alcoholism, and hoped it ended in sex instead of car doors opening at 60 mph.

Citigirl,

That sounds great. Thank you very much for your help.

Except of course I now have yet another book to read. I feel like by the time this thing is over I should go in to counseling. Could you imagine that, as messed up as I am, counseling people?

But, seriously, that really does help. If you do think of anything else, please let me know. I'm in complete consumption mode at this point in time.

Was that a new or otherwise singular experience for you? That much sex, and sex talk, and sexual content, and sexual focus, period, in a relationship? Were you also sexually inexperienced before marriage, like your wife?

How do you think your wife might respond sexually if she were to get involved with a man as aggressive as the OW in this situation? It sounds like you spent your childhood in a pursuer/distancer relationship with your mother. Then you, the distancer, got married to another distancer - or, perhaps, just a nice, normal, well-adjusted person who was neither pursuer nor distancer. So, then you had an affair with another pursuer. Perhaps your wife would respond sexually to being pursued, as well. Are you capable of pursuit?

Also, remind me of where your wife is in all this? Not fully informed, is that right?

I was somewhere between the OW and my W as far as sexual experience, but much closer to OW. Like I said, W has 2 total. Both OW and I needed more than our two hands, but not much more than that.

My relationship with the OW was definitely the most sexually-intensive relationship that I had over a long period of time. I had one serious girlfriend before my wife, and she was a virgin. Then my wife. The other relationships I had been involved in would last a few weeks or maybe two months at the longest. Several of those had a lot of sex, but never over the course of many months like I had with OW.

I had never talked that openly about sex, and our desire to have sex with one another like I did with OW. I had very good friends who were girls during college, and I definitely talked about sex a lot with them. But, I never had anything like the conversations I had with the OW with someone I was actually sexually involved with (at least on a regular basis).

My wife is not really a pursuer or distancer. Until this trauma, she was really a well-grounded, very normal person. I don't know how she would react if she were pursud like that. It sounds like I need to be the one that pursues her to find out, based upon what so many people have said.

I guess it depends on your definition of "fully informed." She knows. She has as many details as she has wanted so far.

Es,

I figured that your father and your wife had a lot in common. If you read the book I suggested earlier, you'll see that her resemblence to your father in character/personality is what drew you to her to begin with.

From your responses here, I think reading Hendrix will be a great eye-opener for you. I can't say I enjoyed reading it, exactly, but virtually every page gave me a Holy shit level insight into my life and relationships.

Good luck. Your open mind and insight will serve you well on this journey.

BT

Dear Es,

Hon....until you stop trying to sexually remain faithful to the OW you will never be able to start the healing process.

Will you PLEASE sit down with your wife and talk about everything we here on the board have talked with you about?

No more waiting for the "right time" because it never comes. Do it this week, this weekend. You are seriously underestimating your wife.

You are ASSUMING.

Just do it. Be a man and talk to her.

She probably is waiting for you to do so.

k9

I agree with K9. ES, I know you think you know your wife, but you have to give her a chance. After D-day, my XH and I shared things that made me think to myself, "wow, why didn't we just say this to each other? We could have avoided this situation if we just aired this out." Funny thing was, we both wanted the same thing, we just didn't communicate them to each other.

I was told by my XH, that he wanted to have sex more frequently and to kiss a certain way. Instead of showing me how he wanted me to kiss--showing me could've been half the fun, BTW!--he just stopped kissing me. I, too, wanted to have more sex...outside the bdrm, rougher sex, etc., like we used to. But we never talked!

Now, I'm no longer with him, and when I talk to my new beau about how my H found me lacking sexually, he can't stop laughing.

Seriously, man, do yourself a favor and start talking. You may be surprised. Plus, it could lead you to some new and pleasurable adventures between you and your W.

[This message edited by clickgo at 6:12 PM, May 6th (Tuesday)]