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My H confessed to an EA with a coworker on New Year’s Eve 2024, told me it was just a kiss and touching until 3 weeks later he couldn’t fessed to sexual contact 3 times. As soon as he told me that I told him I wanted a polygraph because he swore there was no sex. He passed the polygraph there was no sex or oral but this EA was on and off for 2years 4 months.
He confesses over the period they would drift in and out of friendship to a little more until they crossed the line and ended up kissing, there were apparently 8 kisses and 3 with sexual contact. H said they would be just friends, turned in to flirting then talking dirty, she would ask for a lift home after work and then they would end up kissing, H would apologise and state it was a mistake and they shouldn’t be doing this, they would not speak for a while then start talking again then rinse and repeat until it eventually ended when he transferred department.
Has anyone experienced anything similar, is this classed as an EA?.
I still have not gotten all the details I want H is very hesitant to speak about all details as he doesn’t want to hurt me anymore.

What is the difference between EA and PA for you? I think it's important to think of betrayal as betrayal - the mode of the betrayal probably isn't as important as the betrayal itself.

I'd consider the A to be physical. Someone had to decide to kiss and touch. Someone had to decide to accept the kiss and touch. Kiss and touching are physical, so it's a PA by (my) definition. But your definition is what counts for you and your WS.

I think we all expend some energy in comparing As. IMO, it doesn't matter if the A(s) you have to deal with are more or less horrific that other As. The important thing is to heal, and that means resolving the specific anger, grief, fear, shame, etc. that you feel.

You get to decide what your WS's A is and what it means.

I guess I just want someone to tell me what they see from an outsider looking in.

My mind boggles daily to try and work out what this kind of relationship was that my H had? Even he and AP cannot give me a name for what it was, both saying there is not even a name for it.
Yes I’m very aware that my H cheated but i need to know what it was, the closest things he tells me is ‘a series of f**k ups’, things kept going too far etc.
H claims he had no feelings for AP, he was just passing time at work (whatever this means), flirting, banter, sexual innuendos, and dirty talk were the only way she could get his attention, obviously he loved the ego kibble admitting he was flattered because she’s half his age.
After sometimes months of flirting he would give her a lift home occasionally and he claims there was a sexual buildup and they would end up kissing, he would stop, apologise and then they would go back to ignoring each other at work for a few months and it would start happening again.
One time he ended up going in her house and they started kissing, she took his hand to go upstairs and he said ‘I’m sorry I can’t do this’ and walked off, she called him a ‘chicken’ the next day at work.
When H told me about the incident in her house I didn’t believe a single word so I asked him to take a polygraph to which he agreed and passed, there was no oral sex or PIV.
H and AP admit that this ‘thing’ happened in blocks, not a continuous period. It was on a few months off a few months and lasted approximately 2yrs 4 months.
He transferred department and didn’t have any contact with her for 4 months then saw her at the bus stop and stopped to pick her up and give her a lift, H said she was flirting with him and again they kissed with sexual contact, he pulled away and said ‘not this again, I can’t do this’ to which she replied ‘you’re not a bad man you know, these things happen’. This made H angry he said these things don’t happen I’m married and I shouldn’t be doing this, I can’t ever take you home ever again because we keep ending up here.
H never had contact with her outside of work, no texting, no meetings, nothing it was an at work thing, he said once he clocked out that was it apart from the times he took her home.
She asked him out for drinks he refused, she asked for his phone number he refused, she offered oral sex on 3 occasions he said no, several opportunities for sex he told me he didn’t want it so what on earth was he playing at?! I thought that was the goal for men?.
What would you call this ? A series of kissing affairs?
I don’t understand why he kept making the same error, they kissed 8 times and had sexual contact 3 times, from outside looking in would you believe he had feelings for her? Was it just a series of occasions that got out of hand? How would a man see this whole situation?

Could anyone give me their honest opinions and views on this please what would you think if you were in my shoes?

Thank you for reading.

Bruce,

I can’t speak for your husband, but I can offer insight from a man’s side. I personally am not driven by sex. Before I was married I had a few opportunities to, but they were either one night stand situations which isn’t for me, or in one case I found out she was still married. I walked away from them. I know we try to not generalize on SI, but a lot of men feel sex is the ultimate boundary vs the EA side. I personally did. I had undeniable proof that my WW was having an EA, but it wasn’t until I discovered that it was both EA/PA that I actually acted. To me at the time, the EA while wrong, wasn’t the same. I definitely don’t believe that now, but I really had the mentality of oh it was "only" an EA.

It is possible that your WH feels similar, that he enjoyed the attention and ego boost, but to him sex was the ultimate boundary and he couldn’t cross it. Men can and do say no to sex, again I personally have myself. Of course he kept putting himself in the position and everything he did was cheating and wrong. I am only saying, while uncommon in affair worlds, having sex might have been his line where he couldn’t deny he was cheating and he didn’t want to cross it. You know him better than me, so again I am not saying that’s what happened. I am saying men do walk away from sex, it’s not always about that.

Thank you Hellisnothalffull,

It’s nice the have a male view on things, i think it’s very confusing that a man would refuse PIV and oral when generally as a woman we’re programmed to believe a man is aiming for the end game which is PIV.

H said he would lie to himself to justify what he was doing and yes he would give himself a pep talk on the way home ‘you did nothing wrong you didn’t have sex with her, she’s just a friend it went a bit too far, everything is fine’.
He did in fact like you said put a boundary in place ‘if you have sex with this woman, you’re going home and telling (me) and you lose everything’.
Problem is I couldn’t believe him and it didn’t make sense, even now I have to tell myself every single day that he did not have sex with her, it’s like my brain will not accept it didn’t happen, even though he voluntarily took a polygraph and passed.
When I ask him what it was or what would another man call it he tells me ‘messing around’.
I guess I’m someone who wants to put a label on things and I really struggle with understanding it.
When I try to look at it from AP view it’s even more confusing because I would never entertain or chase a married man especially one double my age, if he’d told me he wasn’t interested or refused my advances no way would I waste my time or embarrass myself. He didn’t just refuse her offers once it was many many times I could never make myself look as desperate and pathetic.
H must have got a kick that a woman half his age was literally throwing herself at him and begging for his attention and his manhood.

Maybe one day it will make more sense to me

Bruce,

I think what Hell has stated is exactly correct.

I want to take a swing at another aspect of this.

And let me start by saying that I’m only speaking for myself. I may be the only man in the world feeling like this. (Trying to not get my knuckles rapped any more.)

Some years ago, I was part of a team at work. All men. Occasionally, we would have dinner together.

Invariably, at the conclusion of dinner, someone would suggest we go to a "gentlemen’s club" for a nightcap. We always went.

Now, in case you are unfamiliar, at these clubs there are little tables around a central stage. Periodically, a woman comes on stage and does a strip tease, down to a g-string. Away from the stage, in other areas, there are groups of more comfortable seating, upholstered chairs and couches. If you’re seated here (as we always were), women would appear, and, for a few dollars, offer to perform "lap dances." These "dances" involved a mostly naked woman rubbing all over you, paying particular attention to the region that most likes getting rubbed.

Now, a couple of things about this:

1. Was what I was doing wrong? Was I cheating? Yes. I should not have been doing this. Today, I believe I have matured. If invited, I would make an excuse.
2. Did I enjoy it? Yes. I like being sexually aroused. I like being in a state of sexual arousal.
3. Was this about my wife? I am on an anonymous site. No reason not to be honest. It had nothing to do with my wife. Were these women prettier than my wife? I suppose some were, and some weren’t. My wife gets pretty high marks, here. Did these women have better bodies, better boobs, than my wife? I suppose some did, and some didn’t. My wife gets high marks here, as well. But I say "I suppose" because I don’t really know. I never compared. I never looked at one of these women and thought about how she compared with my wife. I wasn’t consciously not comparing. It just didn’t happen. Were these women rubbing on me better than my wife? Nope. My wife knows what to rub and how to rub it. After being in these places a short while, I couldn’t wait to get home.
4. Supposed my wife suspected what I was doing and confronted me? I would have lied and denied. Supposing she had proof? I would have told her what I’m posting here until I was blue in the face, and she probably never would have believed me.

So, Bruce, to your WH. First of all, let me be clear. What he was doing is wrong and there’s no excuse. What he was doing was way more dangerous, more threatening than my bad behavior

But, maybe he just had a private gentlemen’s club he could go to, during an otherwise stressful, unpleasant or boring day, and have something pleasant happen. And maybe it was never about you.

If that’s what he’s telling you, it might be the truth.

Formerpeopleperson

I believe that is what he’s trying to tell me yes.
There’s a large part of me doesn’t want to believe anything he says because I’m so hurt.

When I asked H a few days past DD did he compare her to me and he said ‘how can I compare her to you?, you’re my wife’. I never understood what on earth he meant until reading your post and I had a light bulb moment.

I can’t stress how helpful it’s been to receive a man’s opinion.

And just to belabor this point:

If I put my wife in a room with 100 other topless women, my wife would have the best boobs in the room.

Is that because of their size, shape, firmness, whatever?

Nope.

It would be because they are HER boobs. That makes them very special to me. Are other boobs nice? Sure, all boobs are nice. But they’re not her boobs.

And you can replace "boobs" with any other aspect of her. Same speech. I just like to talk about boobs.

As most men do Formerpeopleperson.

As a woman and an emotional creature I find it extremely difficult to see things from another perspective without attaching emotions. I see the fact that it went on for over 2 years (on and off) as being virtually impossible to not develop feelings for someone, I myself would highly doubt I’d be able to do the same, my H tells me that most men are different.

Obviously, I don’t know what he may or may not have been feeling for her. Clearly, he was keeping his private gentlemen’s club open.

In my city, there are "Chippendales" and other "Ladies Clubs." Maybe some women enjoy being in a state of sexual arousal. Maybe the OW just had a private Ladies Club going and this was nothing more than that for either of them.

I’m just pushing back on "virtually impossible."

It’s not impossible; not at all.

He claims the club remained open because the manager was being awkward when he was trying to cancel his membership, he was afraid she’d contact his wife.
He had to keep the manager sweet and admits he’d get reeled back in to renewing his membership, lying to himself obviously that he was not doing anything wrong then on a particularly bad day BAM!, he’d get upgraded to the upholstered couches.

My H and I found AP tik clock account and it seems she was pretty obsessed with H, all the videos from back then are about him and state, don’t fall for people who don’t want you, I’m all about him and he is all about her (me), I’ve wasted a year of my life trying to get you, I’m done trying to get you, he keeps saying we’re just friends, I know I’m being played, when he says he doesn’t want you but his actions say differently, why can’t she leave him and I can have him, he did me wrong left me hanging, I’m being ignored by him etc etc etc.

Everything does actually point towards him in fact eventually wanting to cancel his membership but I just wanted to hear it from a man’s viewpoint which you have done FPP as has HELL which I’m extremely grateful for.

Maybe if he’d have really liked the management then he’d have got a permanent membership or at least upgraded to Premium membership.

And just like Hell said, I’m sure I could have upgraded to a premium membership during my clubbing days, but I had no interest in that. Just wanted to get home.

Formerpeopleperson,

I have to admit that my H is sexually driven and loves nothing more than oral, which is why I think that I’m absolutely confused and mind blown. What is even more confusing is the carrot was dangled in front of him for over 2 yrs and he never bit!, I can’t believe it, I know my H, I know what he’s like. I think it’s extremely confusing to have a massive ego boost because my H came home to me but also be absolutely destroyed because he kept visiting the gentleman’s club.

As I went through the healing process, I came to conclude that even a non-social kiss made any A into a PA, in part because all non-social kisses of mine were invitations to more intense sexual activity or came from the afterglow.

If a woman kissed me without an invitation, I'd have shut it down quickly and never gotten close enough for an unwanted kiss from that woman again. I would not think I betrayed my W if I were on the receiving end of an unwanted kiss.

Continuing to be alone with that woman would be a betrayal, though, IMO, and more physical than emotional. One of my regrets was going out with a girl I didn't like because she was really into me. I wasn't flattered - I liked the sexual activity. (We were very young and didn't go all the way.) Actually, she was a very nice girl.

Bottom line: IMO, your H conducted a (strange) PA, not an EA. I imagine he wanted the sex but didn't trust himself to keep it secret, and he didn't want to deal with the consequences of coming clean.

Also, I would consider any genital contact by consent would make an A into a PA.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:02 PM, Tuesday, March 18th]

Bruce,

Had to think about this for awhile. Introspection is not always pleasant. Anyway . . .

I never upgraded my club membership. Why not?

I find myself sexually aroused probably 100 times in a typical week. Occasionally, my wife is the cause; sometimes even intentional on her part.

But the great majority of the time, it’s something else. Could be a steamy love scene on TV. A Playboy on the rack in a store. A woman bending over to get something on the bottom shelf in the grocery store. Sometimes, there’s no discernible reason at all. It’s always pleasant, although sometimes inconvenient. But, for sure, getting me sexually aroused is not the exclusive province of my wife. So if I go to the Club, and it’s 101 times that week instead of 100, big deal.

But beyond arousal, when you get to oral and PIV, and orgasms, and intimacy; that IS the exclusive province of my wife. And I value her greatly for the sexual pleasure and intimacy she can provide (lots of other reasons, too, don’t get mad at me). Should I start getting that from other women, I think I would necessarily value my wife less, in this area. And I don’t want to devalue my wife and our relationship. It’s too important to me.

So maybe that’s it for your husband. But, your husband’s Club was private, so not the same as mine, and something else occurs to me.

We advance relationships in various ways. The first kiss, the first fondle, meeting the parents, moving in, proposals, etc., all advance the relationship.

The OW offering oral to your husband was certainly her attempting to advance the relationship. But he turned her down. He didn’t want to advance the relationship any further. You can feel good about that. And it must have hurt her feelings, big time. You can feel good about that, too.

Finally, we want life partners for many reasons, important reasons. And when the life partner we have chosen shows any signs of a lack of commitment, it’s scary. Certainly, your husband’s actions are so interpreted by you, even if you buy what I’m saying. It will take time and consistent behavior on his part for you to feel safe again.

Your husband didn’t upgrade his membership. He didn’t want to devalue you and/or advance the relationship with her. Big ego boost to you.

But you’re scared. Of course you are.

The two emotions are not contradictory. The fear will fade. The ego boost might be forever.

And, turning her down shows some character. He’s not a lost cause.

Best wishes

Formerpeopleperson,

Thank you, your insight is very much appreciated.