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She said she would never agree to a divorce she never wanted it when she wasn’t happy in our marriage and she’s not going to accept it now when she’s the aggressor, she said she will fight till the end.

I’m reading this to mean she will try up to the end to salvage the marriage; I don’t think it means she will fight you in court to get the best deal. Denial is the first phase of grief.

You don’t have to go scorched earth on her (in the sense of wishing her the worst). You can love her and despise her at the same time. You can make sure she is with someone (your son, you MIL to make sure she’s ok) and still go with D.

I think that staying with your brother is a great idea. If you worry that you are bothering him, ask yourself the following question: if the roles were reversed, would you support him? I suspect I know the answer to that question.

I get that you feel bad about everything, especially about your daughter, but your daughter would have found out everything eventually! So the confrontation was inevitable!!!

And just remember, she didn’t break up with POS to save the marriage, or because it was the right thing to do, SHE BROKE UP WITH HIM BECAUSE SHE DISCOVERED HE WAS F_CKING JENNY!!!!!!

This is still ALL on her!!!

Protect the kids when possible, but they are all adults, and get away from her ASAP!!!

My wife is insisting that she only called him for closure and she knew it was wrong to do it but she said it was never to get back with him. In a text she sent me yesterday she said that if I heard the whole conversation from the start it was clear that she called to confirm the break up and that it was him who was trying to convince her otherwise, she told me that it was wrong for her to call she realize that now and tatt no closure with him was necessary.

I'll echo Neko's comment: What a shitshow.

I predicted she would claim she was only calling him to break it off. I knew she was going to say this. It's so starkly at odds with her letter from the same day-- way back on page 24:

You asked why I haven’t ended communication with him, I did I swear and blocked him. Last thing he heard from me was that I would put a restraining order if he ever contact me. Here is the number his wife asked for 804******, even if you left me I wouldn’t reach him because I have caused too much damages to his wife and kids already. If I can ask you a favor, I would love to talk to her and apologize to her in person, I would let her say whatever she wants and will answer any question she might have.

Wow. Such a tonal shift. You can put two and two together, you know what this means.. both on the same day.

I wonder if she still wants to apologize to OBS now? Likely is pretty afraid of that idea. They never imagine that betrayed spouses ever compare notes.

So, back to your situation. You didn't think this was going to be easy, did you? I suspect she is going to fight you ever step of the way, but we don't know that-- you are the only one who could anticipate here position. When faced with "divorced on seemingly amicable terms" and "divorced for adultery", she might come around yet. Give it the week it requires, and communicate through her mother.

Don't get too upset with DD. She is also upset, also full of insecurity.. and lashing out against her mom, who has deeply disappointed her. That's hard on all parties. Be kind to her but refrain from telling her too much right now. I know it's tempting. You want to talk to someone who can talk (not type) back to you.

You might want to stay at your brother's place for a few days.

She also claims that the OBS is looking for revenge and that she told her that she will make sure to ruin her life and career

“Dear WW. Having an affair with business client(s), specially when they are married, is not a sound business decision. I suggest that you stop blaming others for your marital issues and business issues and start taking responsability for your actions”

Among other things, cheaters are: selfish, entitled, deceitful, and lack empathy for their spouse. Her breaking contact and covering it up (vs her promises to you) is evidence that she's still high risk to cheat again.

If there's any talk or hint about suicide, call 911 immediately and let the police/emergency staff deal with her.

What she said about her last conversation with the OM is either irrelevant or typical cheater speak.

1 - It's pretty typical for a cheater (once exposed/confronted) to say they never wanted a divorce.

Why would she? She had the respect of her community, a nice comfortable marriage and family - plus she felt entitled to lead a secret life where she enjoyed the addictive excitement & fantasy of feeling single/young. A secret life that no husband or marriage can or should have to compete with.

She thought she'd never get caught (and if she did get caught you'd never divorce her).

2 - She still doesn't get it. It's more than breaking NC - she covered it up (that's more lies)!

AH, your WW needed clousure? another one? she was supposed to has no contact since she broke Up with OM. she called him to confront him about his other As. She is not over OM, as is expected, but she lied...Did she tell you about OMs Affairs and Jenny with you? It seems to have caused a big impresión on her. It doesnt really matter anymore, but her reaction can tell you her mind set evolution. of course OBS would be delited to see your WW crash and burn, but I believe her primary, and only gold, was to protect you!!!! I think you should have a one to one talk with eachone of your kids to explain them that even your WW action after DDay hurted you, they were not decisives in your decision to D. Other thing, the shitstorm was meant to happen sooner or latter ! it is not your fault, you have been doing much better than expected. last thing, your WW reaction matches her evolving state of mind, she is experiencing a huge awakening to reallity not just of her actions, but what she traded for a bit of fun: humilation, feelig used, greaving her relation with OM, loosing her marriage, public shame, realising thar the enablers are not real friends, shame about badmouthing you to get others simpaty, that OM friend or even OBS may talk to others in her line of business (btw, did she explain why she want to change carrer? will the A affect her reputation? ) etc...she is desperate as she should be!! be careful, limit contact, give her clousure, dont send her mixed signals, carry a var all the time when ralking to her, ask her to go to IC, check with you lawyer about she not working, etc...you get the idea

The blow up between your adult daughter and wife is not your fault. It was going to happen eventually.

It's another consequence of her decision to commit adultery.

Your wife also lied to her family for two years (not just you) and presented herself as a 'good' person and church member.

I recall, your wife was entitled and hypocritical enough to disapprove of your daughter's boyfriend (to his face) because he wasn't 'churched'.

I'm sure the boyfriend keeps reminding your daughter.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 4:30 PM, August 6th (Thursday)]

Wow.. man I really feel for you.

I have only responded once to your post and that was after her email. I felt like it was transactional.. like she was trying to close a deal. If I remember correctly she sells real estate and I'm guessing she's was tapping into her sales training... That appears to me even more likely after hearing the information about the phone call.

I know you mentioned you have a hard time getting your point across when typing so I'm going with the idea her "fighting to the end" means to save the marriage. And it is with this mindset that I write this.

I wish I had words to comfort you but it's unfortunately ultimately a process you have to slug through on you own. I reconciled with my wife but it was after starting divorce proceedings and a massive amount of work on her part. I don't recommend it as a first choice because it is probably the hardest thing I ever did but now I am glad we did. True remorse from a wayward is hard to indentify unless they really are remorseful and you see it for yourself.

Proceeding with divorce is absolutely the right thing for you. It's apparent she's not a candidate for reconciliation even if you were inclined to want to fix your marriage.

With all of that said do you plan on giving her the opportunity to come clean with any of the details you feel the need to know? Are you going to try find out exactly who Jenny is and how she fits into this whole shit show? Are you even interested in knowing any details? I only ask because if you do I highly recommend you take the time to write out what you want to know and if possible have her write her answers. It's something my wife and I did. It helps when the wayward tries to change the narrative or tries to backtrack on things. It's a good way to keep a liar honest. I'm sure people here will be more than helpful in giving suggestions on what questions to ask of it's something you decide to do. This also has the added benefit of .. I hate this term.. closure. But just saying to hell with it I don't care is a very valid response to this

Your daughter is hurting bad. I know you know that. Her image of her family and mother has been shattered. Give her a big hug next time you see her. As well as your son. They obviously care about both of you and that's a testament to their upbringing.

I want to leave you with this..

YOU have your dignity.

YOU have your integrity.

YOU have your honor as a husband.

YOU have the love of your children.

YOU NEED NOTHING ELSE.

She said she would never agree to a divorce she never wanted it when she wasn’t happy in our marriage and she’s not going to accept it now when she’s the aggressor, she said she will fight till the end.

My lawyer still believe that a consensual divorce is the best option but wants me to give her a deadline and do not wait for too long, I’m gonna let her mom know that by the end of next week if she does agree I would have to file base on adultery.

There's nothing she can do to stop you from getting a divorce, and underneath it all, I expect she knows that. I do think you've got a good plan to file on grounds if she's uncooperative and that you were right to involve her mother. If her mom is close by, you might even share your concerns about your WW's state of mind and see if it might be wise for her to go stay with mom for a week or two. That way, her mother can keep an eye on her and make sure she's coping.

It's unfortunate that your daughter got involved, and even though she's got an absolute right to be angry with her mother, you'd be wise to remember that our children are still emotionally enmeshed with both parents. Your best bet is to remind DD that you're okay, that your relationship with her mother is between you and your WW, that you both love her, and that you want her to have a good relationship with her mom. From DD's POV, her mom lied to her about ending contact, so they've got to work that out. She just needs to know that you don't consider it a betrayal so she's free to do that when she's ready. Kids are divided right down to their DNA, half dad, half mom, and yet all themselves. It's a weird place to be. And even when they're irate and spitting venom, that division is still there, under the surface.

In terms of the OBS taking any kind of revenge, I think it's okay to let her know that her efforts to "ruin" your WW wouldn't just be hurting your WW, but also you and your children by making your divorce more complicated. Right now, you need your STXW making a good living so you don't end up paying alimony. Thank her for her assistance, but say you've got it from here.

ETA:

My wife is insisting that she only called him for closure and she knew it was wrong to do it but she said it was never to get back with him. In a text she sent me yesterday she said that if I heard the whole conversation from the start it was clear that she called to confirm the break up and that it was him who was trying to convince her otherwise, she told me that it was wrong for her to call she realize that now and tatt no closure with him was necessary. She also claims that the OBS is looking for revenge and that she told her that she will make sure to ruin her life and career.

I just wanted to add that it kind of sounds like your WW is under the impression that the reason you're divorcing her is because she broke contact. And sure, that might have moved the timetable some, but your D decision had already been made. It might save you some headache to explain to her that her adultery as a whole is your motivation for leaving the marriage. Otherwise, she's likely to continue thinking this was some kind of small mistake on her handling of the aftermath which could be corrected. So, it's NOT one phone call for "closure" which tips the scales. It's two years of remorseless cheating which did her in.

Don't be afraid to face the conflict. She needs to understand that this is happening and WHY it's happening. It's not the end of the world. It's the end of a marriage. She ended it two years ago. All you're doing is dotting the i's and crossing the t's. She's not a child. And it doesn't matter if her intention was to never to leave the marriage. She did leave it, and she KNEW what the consequences could be.

Like I said in an earlier post, once your decision is made, you lose nothing by being compassionate but firm. She has HAD her choices, and now it's your turn to make yours. And really, when you recognize early on that the cheating was a deal-breaker, you're doing your STBX a favor by not dragging them through an attempt at R which is doomed to failure. We've got people around here who have taken YEARS to come to that realization. So, you're ahead of the game, really.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 6:44 PM, August 6th (Thursday)]

Her reaction is SO classic wayward and SO predictable. Let her people support her, not you. Keep moving forward and do NOT let any threats from her deter you. She made her choices years ago and now you're making yours.

Also, she called him because she WANTED to. Just like she slept with him because she WANTED to. It truly shows she is not a candidate for R because even now, when she is losing it all,she still won't accept blame for calling him because she WANTED to, knowing it was wrong.

Follow your lawyers instructions and try to remain stoic, when possible. Remember no matter what she says, her actions have shown you the real her. Any consequences she faces now are exactly what she has earned. Period. You're making so much progress towards your better life without infidelity. Good luck.

[This message edited by clouds777 at 5:09 PM, August 6th (Thursday)]

Just wanted to say that given your agreement with your daughter to give it two months (end of Sept)

I think you had to tell her why that was now off the table.

Your daughters rock solid and deserved to know why that had changed.

Just my opinion good luck mate.

I think being as kind as possible is important in this situation. You want to be able to hold your head up and know you walked away with your integrity intact.

Remember that forgiveness is for you and should not be conflated or confused with needing to stay with her. They are two different things. You can stay and forgive. You can divorce and forgive.

I'm with others who interpret your WW's statements as less hostile and more desperate.

The hard 180 protects you, but there's no reason for you to be cruel about it and I think you will continue handle it appropriately.

However, that said, stay frosty and don't be manipulated by her.

Unfortunately and tragically, I do think your WW had a plan A/plan B strategy and she considered you Plan B while she was in the process of nurturing plan A with Mr. Moneybags McJackass. In fact we know she had this strategy because she talked about it with him.

Plan A crumbled in front of her and now she's scrambling to revive Plan B (you).

Regardless of what her designs were in making that final call to OM, you were able to hear the conversation. We didn't hear it, you did. Only you, AH, actually know what the tonal quality of that call was like, how they talked to each other, and what the subtext was. l'm a big movie buff and I'm always interested in trying to read the subtext of dialogue in scenes, meaning what is actually going on beneath the surface of a dialogue between two characters. You got to hear a dialogue between 2 people -- like a movie scene. So as painful as it was to hear, step back and ask yourself, what was the subtext here?

You also know she decided at the same time or after that call to send you a really manipulative email with a lot of blameshifting in it -- and that it was so full of holes it was leaking like a sieve before it even arrived in your inbox. We all saw through it pretty quickly.

That doesn't make her an evil sociopath. It does make her manipulative and extremely selfish. Someone who has dishonored you for two years is basically acting out in self-preservation mode now. She thought so much of the marriage she's now desperately trying to save that she spent more than 700 days basically trashing it.

That's a far far distance from remorse you can actually work with.

I think you know what you need to know. Follow the advice of your attorney.

Two Proverbs for you:

Proverbs 14:1 "A wise woman builds her home, but a foolish woman tears it down with her own hands."

Proverbs 21:9 "Better to dwell in a corner of a rooftop than in a house shared with a contentious woman."

EDIT P.S. Incidentally, my WW said several times in the first 6-9 mos after D-Day "If you had only let me talk to him!" about getting closure with her AP, mainly with respect to the issue of our two kids playing together. This attitude is completely unacceptable and demonstrates a lack of remorse. When a wayward spouse breaks NC after D-Day, whatever they say the reasons were, the real reason is because they WANTED to talk to the AP. Their needs are considered paramount in their mind, so they will come up with whatever justification they need to talk to the AP.

Do you get this? I'm asking bc it is often very difficult in the initial stages of shock to really think about what a WS is saying and test their statements against logic and common sense. When you do so, most of the time, it does not hold up very well to this scrutiny. Your WW saying she called the AP for "closure" suggests a WS deep in the self-absorbed mire of regret, not remorse.

Any rationale she could possibly have for breaking NC is unacceptable after D-Day.

[This message edited by Thumos at 6:25 PM, August 6th (Thursday)]

My wife is insisting that she only called him for closure and she knew it was wrong to do it but she said it was never to get back with him. In a text she sent me yesterday she said that if I heard the whole conversation from the start it was clear that she called to confirm the break up and that it was him who was trying to convince her otherwise, she told me that it was wrong for her to call she realize that now and tatt no closure with him was necessary. She also claims that the OBS is looking for revenge and that she told her that she will make sure to ruin her life and career.

She was seeking "closure" because she still has feelings for him, was jealous and felt betrayed, realized she was just a "cheap ass" and that her option to ride into the sunset with POSOM were NEVER real.

She said she would never agree to a divorce she never wanted it when she wasn’t happy in our marriage and she’s not going to accept it now when she’s the aggressor, she said she will fight till the end.

Isn't this the same woman who told you she would not fight you on that fake sob letter just a few days ago ? I told you several times her "guilty mode" may not last long, prepare for battle, you already know she's a proven liar and a cheat so don't expect her to be any different during D.I’m disgusted by her. She is taking a sick leave and handed some of her immediate business to one of her colleagues, which tells me she plans to be out for a long period of time.

Oh so NOW she's doing that, If she was really remorseful and really wanted to fight she would have done this right after Dday, of course she thought that wasn't necessary that that she could appease you and bully you into R, after destroying your life and facing the entire family for her huge betrayal, she even had to check her schedule and negotiate time to talk to you while her entire life was falling apart, of course she didn't know about Jenny and other As at that time and had not yet realized that she was just a "cheap ass" to POSOM.

She also claims that the OBS is looking for revenge and that she told her that she will make sure to ruin her life and career

Your WW is the one who "ruined her own life", OBS is just exposing her for what she really is, a selfish homewrecker with no ethics or integrity and a proven cheater and liar, these are just consequences for her huge betrayal.

I think the idea to get away for a few days and take a break is actually a good one but try to control the alcohol intake while you're gone.

she called to confirm the break up and that it was him who was trying to convince her otherwise, she told me that it was wrong for her to call she realize that now and tatt no closure with him was necessary.

I just caught this. Think about this for a moment:

1. She called to confirm the break up. Why? Why did she need to do that? Hadn't she already done that? Hadn't she already told him it was over? If not, why not? If his wife has already confronted him with information and you already know and the affair is over, why "call to confirm" -- see how shady this is?

2. "It was him trying to convince her" -- just so you know they all say this. Wayward men say it too, but wayward wives for some reason seem enamored of the "I was played by a playa and he just won't leave me alone now" narrative. My WW did this too, and I suspect many BH's will tell you the same thing. My WW said "I kept trying to end it and cut it off with him, but he just wouldn't leave me alone. He was very persistent." Just think about this narrative and what it reveals. Remember subtext? Part of the subtext is "it's all about her." It's a reality show about your WW and she's the star all day long. The other subtext is: "I'm a victim here as much as you - he's a predator." This would be a convenient lie to believe, but my guess is you don't believe it AH.

3. She now realizes it was wrong to call. What? 2-3 days later she suddenly realizes it was wrong? She didn't realize it was wrong before she did it or while she was dialing the number or during the call or after when she was composing her epic blameshifting email to you? Really? None of us buy this. Do you see how this is the same behavioral and thought patterns as the affair itself? You're being given the gift of a little microcosm here to see her mind at work. This is regret vs. true remorse. She "realizes" it was wrong conveniently only after she gets caught. The rationalizations, the excuses, the manipulation of you. I suspect she's been doing some version of this throughout your entire marriage, but you're just now really seeing it clearly for the first time.

[This message edited by Thumos at 6:39 PM, August 6th (Thursday)]

she even had to check her schedule and negotiate time to talk to you while her entire life was falling apart, of course she didn't know about Jenny and other As at that time and had not yet realized that she was just a "cheap ass" to POSOM.

Spot on. That's what we call your standard plan A/plan B strategy around these parts.

AHguy - I don't think you should try to advise the other betrayed spouse to cease or desist doing anything.

Whatever her motivation, the OBS has been your greatest ally, and if not for her, your wife would be sneaking off with the turd to fuck right now.

If you read around this board, this is the most often given pieces of advice:

1) Expose the affair: - to the other betrayed spouse, to family, friends, and community, and to the workplace.

Frankly, your wife fucking a married client (He is a client of her firm isn't he?) is a gross abdication of common decency, professionalism, and common sense, and she deserves to lose her job.

The other betrayed spouse is already taking your wife down for what she did, but the other betrayed spouse has done the right thing as advised by the majority of this very board.

So what if she is angry? She has every right to be!

Just ask yourself who you want to ally yourself with: The person who has been fucked over just like you, who pulled the veil from your eyes, not once, but twice...

Or the person who continues to lie, manipulate, and fuck you over?

You have your divorce coming up now. Don't be surprised when your wife flips and tries to take everything she can from you. Don't be surprised if the other betrayed spouse has even more information etc. for you to help you out.

When you fuck somebody else's spouse, one should not be surprised that there are consequences to it.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 6:38 PM, August 6th (Thursday)]

she even had to check her schedule and negotiate time to talk to you while her entire life was falling apart, of course she didn't know about Jenny and other As at that time and had not yet realized that she was just a "cheap ass" to POSOM.

Follow your attorney's advice. You don't want to put yourself in a situation to pay alimony. If she has no income, you pay a butt load of alimony.

She called to break up with him and confirm it was over, not because of you and your marriage, but because of Jenny.

As for as the divorce, I don't necessarily think she will make it hard for you. the more she makes it difficult for you, the more she will alienate herself from your children.

[This message edited by Atrowspark at 7:13 PM, August 6th (Thursday)]

AH

AHguy - I don't think you should try to advise the other betrayed spouse to cease or desist doing anything.

Whatever her motivation, the OBS has been your greatest ally, and if not for her, your wife would be sneaking off with the turd to fuck right now.

I hope you reread this ten times buddy. You should not do ANYTHING to not let her do whatever she wants to. Every BS on here whose WS did NOT confess is "lucky" to some extent that we caught them. But in your case you hit the motherlode. Not only did she tell you she provided all the details you could spend years trying to uncover. LET HER BE AND CONTINUE TO WORK WITH HER TO HELP YOURSELF.

When you fuck somebody else's spouse, one should not be surprised that there are consequences to it.

Exactly right. There is no guarantee it will end pleasantly for all. They do not calculate that risk. In your case she was confident she could manipulate you, which could have happened if not for other BS.

That nonsense about 'closure: phone call is such bull shit it is an insult to your intelligence.

And given she did it, I would not bet the ranch that she had not seen him since D Day. Thankfully for you it does not matter now.

I’m so sorry man. You sound like a really great guy. Would love to have one or two Mexican beers with you.

Your WW is likely finally coming to terms with the consequences of her actions and will probably get worse as it continues to hit home.

God, the “closure” . I can’t stand to hear this crap. She is basically saying that “closure” with some POS is more important than saving her marriage. How else can you interpret that? My WW said the same shit, “I won’t give you a D”, “I will fight you every step of the way”, etc (we are in R, but came very close a few times).

I think your plan is sound. Don’t get distracted by all the “noise” coming from everyone around you. Sorry it came to this, but that VAR recording is what I consider to be unfiltered truth.