SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

My WH is not the only one who is confused....I am completely. He was on CL, trading pics, M4M, m4wm, over the last week of going into his emails I have learned an entirely new language, “top, Dom, DP” but he is still, still, still denying that he has actually followed through with any of it.

I told him I loved him. I do. Part of me feels so sad if he has been lying to himself all of this time.....and then I feel very angry that he has lied to me for the past 25 years and is potentially still lying. I told him it doesn’t matter what the gender of his APs are. And it doesn’t. It is the lies and deceit that I cannot fathom, even now. Even when we have been thru D-day.

Do any of you have experience of polygraphs? Do they even work? Can I believe the result? Any polygraph advice gratefully received. Xx ((((((SI amazing people)))))))

Cmego, Glad you no longer trigger on gay men. Alas, I think we'll always trigger on assholes. My STBXDIL is awful to deal with for our son. You're not alone. I wish you luck - maybe your XH is in therapy and it will work this time....

Granuaile,

IMO, if you have any chance of staying together, you'll have to talk a lot, including asking every question multiple times from multiple POVs. Again IMO, only that sort of questioning over time can provide the necessary comfort level.

A poly can work for only a few questions, once. That means to me that polys have 2 problems. First, if you don't ask the right question, you're screwed. Second, it seems a lot easier to fool a machine over 15 minutes than to fool a person over a period of months.

So I don't see the point - but lots of members love them.

You just have to make the best decision you can and hope it works. The only guarantee I can think of is: If you make the wrong choice now, you can recover.

Granuaile,

I hope you come back to check in! This forum doesn't move very fast, but there are good people here.

I did not force a polygraph because I knew, for me, that I'd never trust him again. So, what was I going to do...poly him every 3 months? I decided that I wasn't going that route.

With the experience I've had, and others, I think you're likely going to uncover a lot of troubling things about your WH. I firmly believe "where there is smoke, there is fire", and your WH's stories do not make sense. I would find it VERY hard to believe he met with people but "nothing happened". Personally, I heard that same song and dance and it was all covering YEARS of lies and an "alternate life". Like you, my ex was covering his trails when he travelled for work. Slip off the wedding ring and he became a different person, it was so easy for him.

You'll work through this in your own way. I was in denial for weeks while his life unraveled. I blacked out, I lost 30 pounds, I could barely function and I had two small kids at home. I leaned on family and friends and very slowly worked through everything. Yes, I gave him a "chance" and he blew it pretty quickly (contacted his former affair partner "for support"). I knew he didn't get and I walked away.

For me, walking away was the best. My ex is now openly gay. I have my kids and they are doing well, and I remarried almost 3 years ago to a great man. That process took 7 years

Keep posting!

Reopening by request.

For now, I just have one question. I DO have the same problem. My husband had an affair with a man after looking for years on the internet on gay sites, emailing men, etc...we're reconciling. I want to learn more and have been reading. I see there is an 'original' thread for this, and copy/paste directions. I've tried several things, but just can't get it to work.

How can I find the original thread?

thanks!

Found out from the folks who run the site that the old threads are deleted after awhile, so it's no longer available. Hopefully, now that this is open again, people will start posting here some more! It's been almost 4 1/2 months since D-day for me, and I've been searching for more stories like mine. Most things on here are old, and follow-ups from the previous threads, so I'd sure like to hear from any of you who need to speak out. It's not easy to start....heck, I still haven't posted my story since there wasn't a good place to post it until now. This was closed until last week.....ooops,just went back to look, and it was reopened Sept 12th, and no one has posted. I posted on Just found out about it a little bit ago, and maybe it will help.

thanks.

And, ((((((HUGS))))))) to all.

[This message edited by SusanneH at 4:32 PM, October 10th (Thursday)]

I honestly don't know why......things are going great with my H & I, but I keep wanting to find more information about others with the same situation. I found on pg 1 of "I can relate", this topic of Spouses with Same Gender APs, and I'm on pg 6. I've been almost desperate to find more information, & I keep seeing referrals to all the great stuff that was posted in the original thread that would be helpful. It's been suggested over & over. I wish there was some way to find more of the old stuff, if anyone can understand. Most of what I've seen has been updates. Just curious what the original stories were. i still haven't written mine out....pretty long...a lot of TT...... 10 months of detective work, and 1 1/2 years from the time I found the first CL 'date' (that was the lastdate he made (& never got to..)...anyway, if I ever do write it, it's gonna be long unless I just put a little into it, but I can't see starting it and not..just like I'm doing now

[This message edited by SusanneH at 1:44 PM, October 11th (Friday)]

Okay, here goes. I've waited to post my story because I didn't want to post in JFO, and now that I saw this is opened, I guess I'll dive in and do it.....Warning...it's gonna be long. I've dreaded this, and have told ONLY told ONE person IK, my sister. And, she hasn't really asked me much about it or offered any help since. At least, if she's judgmental about it, she hasn't said anything. I doubt I'll tell anyone else IK. We're staying together, and around here, most people just would NOT understand the men w men at all. It was hard enough to tell the story one time leaving out the gender without having to do it again (I told her the next time I talked to her.)

First, I want to say, it's been almost 4 1/4 months since D-day. His A has been over for 1 1/2 yrs. He has full transparency,lets me see all his devises, etc. My husband & I are doing great. (It took awhile to get here, but it's looking like it'll be worth it!). I've read & read all I can. We are reading books, and then reading them out loud together and discussing them...My H has read: "How to help your spouse heal from your affair" twice now. I highly recommend it. We also read "Healing from Infidelity"..another good one.

Now, we're working on the Communication books (how to, without arguing)...we needed those! We're going out on dates. He's buying me flowers, texting & calling me throughout the day (he has his own business & goes to houses & businesses during the day. I also use "find my iPhone", and he's always where he's supposed to be *he always did his 'stuff' during work hours. (Since we're moving in the right direction;or, i should say, HE is, trust is the next thing I'm working on, and the find my Iphone will be stopped soon)**BTW, I've forgiven him..took some real study, thought and prayer. On our anniversary, I told him "I ahve something I want to tell you. It's a gift to you, and to me. something big: I forgive you". I'll never forget the look on his face. He thought I'd NEVER forgive him. Heck, I never thought I'd forgive him. He thanked me,(in such a way that makes my heart swell..and it hasn't done that in a year & a half),and thanked me for giving him another chance. Anyway, I know there's a lot to come, and we're aware of this, but, as I'll explain, we've discussed the problems associated with all of this. SO.......(yes, this is L---O----N------G. sorry. But, it took almost 1 1/2 years from the start to d-day.

March 6, 2018, my H came to me with his iPad to ask a question. What he didn't know was that there was a photo of a naked man on it . He looked shocked and said "I don't know where that came from! You know how things like that get sent to you!"...I told him it wasn't an email, it was a web page; CL, to be exact. That you have to click to get the site, click on the subject, etc.....; He still couldn't "figure" out how it got there. Well. he had NEVER done anything (that I was aware of) to be suspicious of in our 14 1/2 years together. He was kind, ran all errands for me (I'm chronically ill, and he does ALL the shopping), helped with anything I needed, our sex life was good, etc....BUT, I couldn't let that rest with me. SO, the next day (Wed)when he left for work, I checked his computer (I had NEVER checked his devices in all the time we'd been together...that's how much I trusted him!)...The FIRST thing I saw was an email labeled "SEX"...aghhhhhhhh! It was to the CL guy, and said: my name is..., I am married, live in..., and seems we're interested in the same things (the ad said the guy could keep it hard for 4 hrs, liked to suck,fuck, etc), and I'll be in town tomorrow (this was written Sunday) and would like to meet with you"......MY WORLD AS I KNEW IT FELL APART! and will never be the same.

I printed it, called him and told him I needed him to come home now. He asked if everything was all right...I just said 'no'. When he got here, I threw the email at him, and he told me he didn't go. It didn't feel right. well, to me, just the intent was bad enough. so, the next thing..WHY????

I didn't really get an answer..a few days later he said (get this): "I did it for excitement.....sort of like rock wall climbing"........WTF??????? Comparing sex to rock wall climbing?? (I hadn't even thought much about it being a man..I was so shocked that he would do this at all. I knew he had sex with men when he was doing drugs years ago, but he cleaned up in 2000 *so, he did this clean & sober...so called, 'working' an AA program (he'd slacked off).,,not practicing the principles!

So, for a month or so, I kept asking...heck, we seemed to have a good marriage. No arguments, good sex (I hadn't really noticed, but it had gone from about once or so to every 2 weeks ..about.....(we are getting older....heck, my first husband, who passed away when I turned 50, couldn't even have sex for the last 8 years due to his heart... I understand aging problems)...we like the same things..& so forth...so I couldn't figure out why?

Finally, I sat him down about 1-2 months later & said there HAS to be a reason. I asked did he just want to have sex with a man? He finally said he had always liked to have sex with both women and men. (he thought I'd leave him for that). this was the least of my problems! I told him I was going to start looking in his computer, phone, etc. He said fine, nothing there..HA! trying to shorten this(it won't be by much), I found lots of porn; dating sites, with emails to men on the sites (the emails were deleted); gay dating sites, with his profile photo having his lower naked body !!!! ...and, then, after about 9 months (it went back a long way), sent in 2012, I found an email "Sorry I Missed You" with a video attached of my H jerking off to completion! I was mortified. He was sending porn of himself soliciting sex over the internet! I asked him what he missed and he said...."I don't remember. It was 6 years ago." I told him I don't care how long ago it was. If I did that, I'd remember ALL my life! He had to have either missed a phone call or a meeting/date. (Later, when honesty came in, he said it had been a meeting/date)

The entire time we went through all this TT, he kept telling me ..ADAMANTLY, in my face!...(he protested TOOOOOO much).... I'VE NEVER MET ANY OF THESE MEN FACE TO FACE!!! Until, I found his Gmail email list (it was in the basic version, not the regular one..no "contacts"in it.) One day slow internet wouldn't let me pull it up, so had to pull up basic version, and his "little black book" was there. You could tell by the email names that they were sex toy boys. I showed it to him, and that's when he 'remembered' (always knew) ..more TT... one was 80..too old; one was a hoarder; another was (i can't remember), and so on. He said he only went to see about 4-5 of them, and none of them met his 'standards'. SO, he never had sex with any of them... (believe it or not, I DO believe him, because he went elsewhere..see below). However, if he had approved of any of them, he would have had sex right then & there. So, as far as I'm concerned he's been cheating since he started emailing & visiting men. It's another thing he "doesn't remember"..WHEN(exactly) he started looking online or WHEN he started going to see them. So, I'll go as far back as to say it was just a couple of years after we were married. That means he's only NOT cheated the first 2 years and the last 1 1/2 years of our 15 yr marriage

Anyway, even near the beginning, I found a contact in his phone with the name "David" ...no last name, no designation, like a company or 'petrified wood' (he had an ongoing ad looking for it), etc....Just "David". When I checked the AT&T records, I noticed that he texted David once every 2 weeks and David texted him back once. This went on as far back as the records went (about 1 1/2yrs), and they stopped Jan, 2018. I asked about him, and H blew it off..so, nothing until about April 2019, when I asked again because I had also found that he had blocked "David", which was strange since H always initiated the texts, not David. When I told him again of all of the information, this time he got angry and accused me of accusing him for no reason:RED FLAG, and also that he didn't remember who it was!another RED FLAG!...He had texted him every 2 weeks for at least 1 1/2 years! how could he "forget" who it was?????

I dropped it, but couldn't forget it. We were getting along, and decided to bring it up when we were calm. I mentioned to him how he acted last time, and this time he listened intently, and when I was through (he still tried to TT), he said, "we met once and had sex"... I asked why he texted for so long if it was just once, and he finally told me they had ongoing sex. I was totally devastated, of course. I'd been expecting he had sex with someone after all of this. I would have suspected him all of my life if he hadn't come clean, so I knew something was up, but I wasn't ready for a 2+year affair!

I asked if he met him online. Turns out, he gave up online after so many failures and started going to the local porn video store that has little dirty rooms in the back playing porn 24 hrs a day for men to go & masterbate (and 2 men to do their thing, too). He met him there, and since they were both married, almost the same age, and he figured the other guy was 'safe' (He wasn't 'sleazy' like a lot of others...,I told my H, HE was one of those "sleazy" guys!, that they decided to keep seeing each other. Anyway (this has TMI for some), they went into these rooms and there was a bench ...the floors were sticky from men doing their thing...(ughhhh)...so they had to stand. One stood on the bench, while the other sucked. then, vice/versa. YES< this was in my mind for a long time!

As far as the gay/bi thing goes; I've done a lot of research, and talked to my H about it, as I was concerned for him, and also our future. As far as being gay: he didn't even know they guy's last name. (I found out with Truthfinder) I thought they quit seeing each other because the AP moved away (truthfinder)..He didn't know that either. So, I don't think he's gay, and neither does he. But, he is bi. The reason he quit texting the guy the last time he did, the AP's wife called my H back and asked who it was . Scared him off . Of course, I would have rather he had stopped it because he wanted to. but...

I asked if they ever kissed, and you should have seen the look on his face. It disgusted him. They had only met at that video place, nowhere else. Just hi; did their thing; bye. no emotional attachment at all. I think that has made it easier for me than having to work through the emotions he would have had with a woman; as well as thinking about all the positions, places they went, things they did, things they said to each other, etc...this was all hi/bye, thank you guy. just sex. Not that it makes it ANY less cheating, even though he says he tried to convince himself that since it wasn't in competition with me that it wasn't...but, he knew it was.

He definitely likes women best. I believe that. I know he'll always think about men, but he's treating that like another addiction. It's something he just started liking to do, and got caught up in it. I have to either live with that or not. I understand addiction, and know it has to be worked on, and not swept under the rug. He has promised me that if he ever gets to feeling the urges to do anything, that he will come to me. He says now that it's out (only to me. no one else knows), he feels free to talk about it to me. He's opened up recently like he never did before. We'll just keep trying, and not go back to just riding the wave, like we did before.It may have been 'fun', but it lead to the worst thing I've ever been through.

[This message edited by SusanneH at 12:27 PM, October 14th (Monday)]

I have only a quick update for you ... I'm buried with work.

I'm really sorry your H has cheated. To me, it's the cheating that hurt. The choice of ap, not so much.

Also, the reason this thread rolled off into oblivion is that no one used it for too long.

SusanneH,

I will try and write tomorrow, we will have some things in common, then mine is all over the place. Not sure where I belong on here either. I guess it will help just to talk with someone, only two people know the things I know about my husband.

You sound forgiving, I am not. Living a very bitter, lonely life after being really hurt the last seven years.

Hi,

I just wanted to say I read your entire story- it's cathartic getting it out there. I am sorry this happened to you. A similiar thing happened to me and to my cousin- it changes the way you view the world. Love and hugs.

@sisoon, Countingsheep, and Ifeelalone,

thanks for the responses. I know there isn't much that goes on with this topic, but I'm interested in anything you have to add .

As I'm sure it did to you all, this hit me like a ton of bricks, but I seem to be healing faster than some. I've been through a lot in my life, so I'm pretty strong, but this has been the one thing I haven't dealt with as well (putting it mildly). I never cussed before this.......but, the words that have come out of this mouth of mine have shocked both me and my husband .

The anger has subsided for now, but I do see how many get anger at 6, 8, etc months....I'm at 4 1/2 now. I'm not naive, and know it's NOT OVER. So, we'll continue to work on it, and the support I get from SI will help, I'm sure.

I've read every post in this topic, as well as many that seemed remotely likely to be of interest in JFO, General and R. Trying to educate myself as much as possible. We/he has read/done tests on straight/bi/gay, and most come out that he's mostly straight and the rest that he's bi. But, he's sure he's not gay anyway. He doesn't even like being around guys that way....just one part...sucking (he'd rather "give" than "receive"..he can receive at home) and get that done and get out. He's not interested in anything else about men.

Also, Sisoon, you're right. When first saw it was men he was looking for, it was a shock, and something extra to have to deal with. BUT, the hurt is the cheating, regardless of gender!

Countingsheep, I'm sorry you've been hurt so bad that it's left you bitter. If you need someone to talk to, SI is the place for it. The folks in here really understand because many have been where you are or have been. I've learned a lot by reading their posts. I hope you can find some peace here.

thanks again (((((((HUGS)))))))

And, I'd like to hear about y'all, too!

[This message edited by SusanneH at 12:16 PM, October 14th (Monday)]

My wife has told me she is bi. Which i can live with and feel comfortable about. But how can I tell if she is lying? Obs. She is a cheater, so I don't trust anything she says anymore. She's always told me she's hated sex even to a point that it makes her sick. But then another day she says that she really likes it and has many times initiated (even when I haven't wanted it) Idk what I'm looking for, I wouldn't be alright if she was gay. But how can I know or get proof of that?

[This message edited by SusanneH at 2:12 PM, October 14th (Monday)]

RHT, sorry about the double post. I goofed.

My husband is bi,and we have great sex. He says he doesn't think about men much any more and it's just fleeting.

I'm no expert, but from what I've read, gays don't like having sex with the opposite sex, but bi's like having sex with both. Hope that helps, but don't just go by me . Best of luck.

(((HUGS)))

you may get more support and advice if you visit the emotionless infidelity forum- it's for affairs where there was no emotional connection (like your husband) and the spouses of sex addicts- it is where I fit in mainly. Have you considered that he may be a sex addict? There are trauma counselors in real life who can help you process all of this.

Thanks, Ifeelalone. I'll check out that thread.

I've considered that he could be a sex addict, however, he didn't even look for women because he had me, so he's not just looking to have sex with everyone, even though he did want anonymous/emotionless sex. I guess I need to look into sexual addiction a bit more. thanks

((((HUGS)))))

Added after checking: yes, its possible. I'm going to get him to take that test. He was single for 54yrs, and dated a lot of women, but before me, he only dated one for 3yrs, and no other that long. He said he got tired of them. So, he was used to "looking". On the other hand, I got married at 18, and was married 32 yrs when my H passed away (it was expected- his heart). HE never cheated on me! I didn't even want to date again (didn't want to get out "there"), since I am chronically ill, but a friend invited my now H & me over to a family get together. My H & I dated in HS a couple of times in high school (he tried then, too ), and we were always friendly. After the first get together at my friend's, he called & he wanted to date, but I told him I wasn't ready, and wanted just to be friends. For the first time, he approached me differently than other women. He didn't come after me for sex, but for friendship ..until "I" was ready. SO, I thought we had a magical thing going ....until that fateful day last March.

Since then, he's completely stopped looking at porn, masterbating and anything else (thank goodness on that!), and has been "clean" in that respect now for over a year & a half..... Now, he DID continue to lie to me until June 1st- D-day, which was almost as excruciating (no, not almost, but bad),as finding out about the affair, but hasn't done anything 'wrong' sexually. He's treating wanting men as an addiction. We're both used to living the life of the 12 steps. He just strayed in another direction after he got clean/sobered up.

Like everything : One Day At A Time.

[This message edited by SusanneH at 1:31 PM, October 16th (Wednesday)]

sorry about this blank section. I'm trying to learn to do quotes, and even though i've been on other forums, I just can't figure this one out.

Any help? thanks!

[This message edited by SusanneH at 1:40 PM, October 15th (Tuesday)]

Next to the text box, you should see buttons for bold, italic, and quote.

highlight the text you want to quote

click quote

*****

My understanding is that gays actively dislike sex with someone of a different gender, but bi-sexuals like sex with 'both' genders.

A gay in a straight M ... I don't see how s/he can be happy.

A bisexual, however, can be happy in a straight M. For me, the question was: would my W (again, but this time in truth) commit to monogamy with me.

If she committed to monogamy, R was possible. If she wouldn't, I couldn't care less about the gender of her next partner.

Sorry, I can't put much into responding now - out of town visitors whom we see only rarely....

hi Sisoon,

(well, apparently, I didn't do it right. I always get a blank text box. Was I supposed to click 'quote' after, too?)

I've done a lot of reading about gay/bi, etc; and, talked extensively with my H about it since I want him to be where he needs/wants to be as well.

He LOVES sex with women (make that a womAn (me) ), as he says now. He never looked for outside sex with other women because he says he has me and doesn't need any other women (heck, he wasn't giving me as much sex as I wanted). I just can't give him what he needed...can't grow that part . It's more of a fetish to him.

So, he's definitely not gay, as I wondered for awhile because he looked for so long, and stayed with this guy for so long. He said the reason was that he was 'safe'. He was married, about the same age, and not 'sleazy' . When he went & had the BJ's with the AP, he said they went in, did 'it', "& got out of there" (as told in my story, they always went to the porn video store in the dirty back rooms, and NEVER anywhere else) He said they were usually there 15-30 minutes tops.

THey never even kissed. He cringed at that idea. So, his involvement with other men is very limited...just the sucking and nothing else. He likes giving more than getting (he can 'get' at home). He's treating it as an addiction since he got so used to looking and doing it. Also as mentioned in my story, we're both in AA (I'm a recovering "high bottom" alcoholic, and he's a R coke addict & alcoholic, so used to living in recovery and working the 12 steps..even though he didn't use them during this . He was clean & sober throughout all of this .

But, I AM over the anger now, and have even forgiven him, which I thought I would neverbe able to do. But, I also read & read/ prayed & prayed .... got over the anger first, and then forgave him. It's the best thing I've done so far since all of this happened. It freed me as well as him. That was on our anniversary, Oct 2nd, and we've not had an argument since then. We've totally gotten along, still working on our Communication books (we're through with our affair books for now), and talking weekly. A month ago, I was still in agony, and wouldn't have believed I could feel this way. (well, I obviously hit thi Italic button the wrong number of times at the wrong places, too . The word 'never' was the only word that was supposed to be italicized) ). real tech savvy

[This message edited by SusanneH at 3:32 PM, October 18th (Friday)]

The question I have is: what does 'forgive' mean to you? (Sorry, budgeting time at a newly dysfunctional condo.)