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Lalagirl,

Thank you- I'm sorry you had to go through it too. I think I might take a look at Just found out... Did you feel like an idiot for not realizing that it was all about her until after the last straw? For years, I never noticed how one-sided our friendship was. But yes, looking back, she was toxic before all of this. That makes me angry at myself for putting up with everything and making excuses all that time. and then I'm confused because I still from time to time miss who I always told myself that she was.

H and I are in MC- he called a lot of different people the day after d-day until he found someone who could see us quickly and had us in for our first session the following week. We've gone weekly since then. I'm also in IC- doing both cognitive behavioral therapy as well as hypnotherapy. I believe they help me deal, but every time I realize that I'm having a good moment, it's like a voice in the back of my head says how can you possibly be having a good moment when this happened to you? And then it's like falling back all over again. Both therapists tell me I have PTSD. One said that based on my history (I grew up with a very abusive narcissist of a father who's favorite thing to do was tell me that I was unlovable, worthless, and that I would never be enough for anyone. He told me this at least once a day every day for the first 16 years of my life.) that this was the worst thing that could possibly have happened to me. So that's why I'm doing the CBT too- to help get rid of that core belief that this happened because of me not being enough. I know that it was not my fault that this happened. But I've always been someone who internalized everything and blamed myself because I couldn't bare to think that there was something wrong with the person that I loved. And with this double betrayal, as you said it adds a second layer to that too.

Did you feel like an idiot for not realizing that it was all about her until after the last straw?

Yes. And felt like an idiot for trusting her and my FWH as "just friends." Feel free to read my profile - it tells the whole mess (bear in mind that OW #1 was not a friend...different sitch)...I think reading my profile will help you see what I went through, what my FWH did to become a safe partner for me, etc...

she was toxic before all of this. That makes me angry at myself for putting up with everything and making excuses all that time. and then I'm confused because I still from time to time miss who I always told myself that she was.

I understand. I was very angry at myself because I felt like a fool while they flirted and giggled in front of my face and I rugswept. IC helped me tremendously with that anger at ME. I didn't miss the friendship with OW so much as I did with her two small children (she was divorced). Had to be NC with all.

I have PTSD as a result of all of this, but I'm much better as I'm very far out (10+ years). I did CBT, EMDR, and neurofeedback, all were helpful. My FWH also did IC for 2 YEARS...he had many FOO issues to deal with - he was very broken but is a changed man. So yes, with the right help for both partners, R is possible.

My parents were good to me, but I have a severely handicapped brother (and in the 60s, 70s & 80s resources were slim to none) who required a great deal of attention...so I was pretty much a loner. But I did have some bad things happen to me in middle & high school that contributed to my insecurities. FWH and I married very young (I was 18, he was 20), and I was pregnant when married.

So yeah, having our H's do this certainly did not help our issues, which is yet another layer to add...you lose that trust. FWH had our issues being so young and such, but the ONE thing I thought he would never do to me was to be unfaithful.

If you and your H are working hard at R, I think in time (I know, that dreaded 4-letter word) - you guys will be okay.

Hugs!

Lalagirl, I read your profile and I cannot imagine how painful that must have been for you. I don't think I would have been able to bear an emotional connection. It was clear from your profile that you are a very strong woman and I'm glad that things have turned out better for you- congrats on all of the grandkids too! I can imagine that having that closeness with your family is really helpful. I like what you said about R being a forever process and being grateful. I cannot wait until I am at that point where I'm grateful more than I'm sad.

XBFF didn't have kids that I was close to, but we were close with each others families and had a lot of mutual friends. I blocked everyone from her family and most of the mutual friends the same day I did her. It hurt that I had to lose so many people, but I just couldn't deal. I haven't told anyone but my therapists about what happened and figured it was easier to just move past it rather than trying to figure out a way to explain why I needed to know if XBFF was invited before agreeing to go to events. It was hard when everyone in my family would ask how she was doing though and having to say we're not friends anymore without giving an explanation.

Your story gives me hope of recovering from the PTSD. I will probably not continue the hypno or the CBT once I've gotten to a point where I think I'm good, but I think I will probably continue IC for the rest of my life. Not sure about MC- I think we'll keep going until I don't feel like I'm getting anything out of it anymore.

Similar to you, this was the ONE thing I thought he would never do. I do not think that he will do it again, but I have issues trusting myself because I was so sure nothing could ever have happened before.

I am not a very patient person- especially with myself, so the time thing is hard. but I'm trying. Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to my post- like I said, I haven't told anyone so it helps to feel heard by someone other than H that isn't being paid to listen.

I still go to IC on occasion for "routine maintenance" - I love my IC - she's so awesome.

I know, it's hard to be patient and TBH, I am by no means 100% "cured" but I have learned to live with that. I made the decision to go forward with R because I know that my FWH is a good man who had issues that could be helped. But as you read in my profile, he didn't think there was an issue - until shit got real.

Try EMDR for the PTSD...I found it to be the most effective.

I blocked everyone from her family and most of the mutual friends the same day I did her.

Same - I defriended though, didn't block because I'm of the mindset of keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer. And this has served me well over the years. For example, one of my friends (we're not super close, but are still friends)...just a few months ago I noticed that OW "liked" one of her posts - turns out they became friends at church (which is laughable that OW goes to church but I digress) - and this friend has been reaching out to me and I've been responding with short responses or not at all. After New Year's, I'm going to let her know why I've been upset...but I *think* she knows the sitch as I told her a few years ago what happened, but if she does not, I simply have to tell her that I can no longer be friends with her...it's too close to home, KWIM?

Yes I definitely know what you mean. I don't think I would be able to be friends with anyone who was still friends with her because I want to just kind of forget that she exists. I'm lucky that over the years, our mutual friends didn't exactly remain too close -only getting together a couple of times a year- so I don't feel that I'm losing out too much with them. She was the only one I stayed close to. It's more that I'm angry about the fact that I have to cut to them out more than I'm sad to see them go. Like just another 'unfair' thing that happened to me. With my family, it was harder. She'd always been invited to family functions and since we'd been friends since we were 12, they'd watched her grow up. They all saw her as family. So I left it kind of as 'she did something that really hurt me. I don't want to talk about it. Please don't ever bring her up again." For the most part, that worked. but every time I see a family member that I haven't seen in a while, it comes up and sets me into a downwards spiral all over again. And of course there are always those family members that don't know how to let things go, so they'll ask have we made up yet? or bring up how it's such a shame that we grew apart because we were so close... uggg! that's where I want to list off all of the horrible behaviors from over the years that I realized after this whole thing happened! But i'm trying to rise above and I just shrug and walk away and then go cry in the bathroom or something. I could destroy this girl if I wanted to- but I like to think of myself as a good person and just because she was an asshole, doesn't mean I have to be. I'd rather not waste any more energy on her than I have to.

I'm glad your H realized that there was a problem eventually. Mine did right away- but again it was a very different situation. His was a ONS after the three of us had been out together, all shitfaced, and then I went to sleep and it happened. He didn't plan things or hide things to keep it going. It was just that one night of weakness

that he didn't know he was capable of and he obviously knew that sex with anyone other than me was a problem. Before that, he was a great guy who actually didn't like her because of the way she treated me. He would notice it where I didn't and tell me that I should stand up for myself. Immediately after that night, he was filled with regret and hated himself. He said he realized how immature he had been before it all and that this was a wakeup call to grow up and that his whole life's purpose now is helping me heal and getting me to smile again and to be the best man he could be for both of us. And I see the effort every single day. He has never once gotten defensive or tried to rush my healing and he goes out of his way to make sure to tell me how much he loves me and to find ways to make me feel safe. He even signed a long list of boundaries to ensure that he's never in a situation where I could even question him- the main thing is that he has cut back extremely on alcohol, but also things like never being alone with another woman or talking about sex with anyone other than me (she had been telling him all about how she'd just had sex with a woman and was into all this kinky shit that night and when combined with how much he drank, it was part of what caused him to act without thinking). Things like that. The part that really drove it home was that he said he knows he let me down, but that he also let down himself and God. That coming home every day to a wife who hates him is hard, but that he still looks forward to coming home because he now sees every second spent with me as a gift. To be clear, i don't hate him. I have moments where I think I might, but outside of those moments I love him with my whole heart. Like you with yours, I really believe my H s a good man.

I'm glad your IC is awesome though- love referring to it as routine maintenance! I think I'm going to start calling it that!!

I could destroy this girl if I wanted to- but I like to think of myself as a good person and just because she was an asshole, doesn't mean I have to be. I'd rather not waste any more energy on her than I have to.

Amen! I know it sounds kinda nuts, but in both of our cases, the ONS/EA got toxic "friends" out of our lives and our H's changed for the better. Win-win. But I know it hurts given the length of time y'all were friends...I truly think that it will get better with time and you'll get to the point of indifference and forgive yourself for allowing yourself to be manipulated by her for so long.

Remember...forgive yourself.

the ONS/EA got toxic "friends" out of our lives and our H's changed for the better. Win-win

Yes. this. I've been telling myself that this is the silver lining in the storm of my life right now. That, and it's also forcing me to deal with the traumas of my past that I had repressed for a while so that I can have real healing from those too.

Thank you! It really helps that someone else would see that as a possible 'win' and that it's not just me telling myself what I need to hear.

Hi everyone! I have been lurking for awhile and reading all the brave sad stories. I am so glad I have found people in similar situations to me cause I felt so alone for the longest time. And sometimes look at my husband like he is the worst human for crossing the line with someone we know.

Sometimes I look at him like how can you be so stupid to do that to me and your best friend. Then I get really low thinking is she that much better that you put me and your friendship on the line for her for a kiss? I don’t know... how do you get those thoughts out?

Dontworrybehappy, I highly doubt that she's 'better'. But it's definitely easier said than done to get rid of those thoughts. I still struggle with mine even though my H tells me all of the time that I'm perfect for him- that I'm his dream girl and that no one could ever compete with me in the slightest. There are times I just want to scream in his face 'if that's true, then why did you do this?!' There are times I just want to shake him.

I don't know your story/situation, but I know the most helpful things for me so far when I start to have those thoughts is meditation and journaling. Hypnotherapy has been the best by far- It helps me to focus and I'm learning to 'train my mind' so that I'm more in control of my emotions and thoughts. My psychiatrist made me a few recordings that I have on my phone at different lengths with guided meditations to help me relax and to channel the feelings that I want- for example, to feel strong, safe and happy. When I need to, I can put in my headphones, take some deep breaths, and get back to a place where I feel like I'm going to be okay. Sometimes it works better than others, but it always at least makes a small difference for me.

It's definitely super hard to look at someone you love and think he's the worst. Everytime I find myself starting to do that, I try to make a mental list of all of his positives, all of the changes I've seen in him since what I call 'the incident' and all of the reasons I know I want to stay with him. If none of that works, I tell him I'm struggling and he'll do the work to reassure me until I'm feeling better.

This isn't really a group that anyone wants to belong to and I'm sorry that you had to join us, but you're definitely not alone.

How long has it been for you? I think the hardest thing for me to wrap my brain around. Is him telling me he wasn’t attracted to her and never had been. He did it all to figure out our marriage and knew her and didn’t think it would have been as bad cause she was a friend... I struggle with believing him and then me playing a fool.

I'm going on six months but there are times when it feels like it was forever ago and times when. It feels like yesterday. my h swears he was never attracted to the ow as well. In fact he thought she was kind of gross and annoying when he was sober. It will never make sense to me. It doesn't make sense to him. That's one of the main reasons he's going to ic. To figure out why.. Why risk everything you've ever worked for/wanted for a momentary high with someone that you never even liked.

For me, the hardest part is for sure that there was even a second where he wanted someone other than me. Even if he was wasted and the temptations were insane. I couldnt imagine there ever being a second where I could ever want to touch another person.

For us, this was a wake up call. We have made a Lot of changes to our lives and relationship to ensure that nothing like this ever happens again and that I will always feel safe. But I will admit, I will probably keep my eyes open for any slipping backwards as far as our new boundaries for a VERY long time. Fool me once and all that, you know?

I hope you're able figure out a way to feel safe as well and to do what's best for you.

What is also hard is him contemplating the cheat. Cause she kissed him first we were all drinking heavily (not an excuse) but the ex friend had seen her husband and sister in law walk off in the dark at a party and lost it. He had an affair with her. So she threw herself on him. A couple months later he asked to kiss her. Saying it was all to figure out our marriage. That night we got into a big fight. A few days later he called and apologized. A few months later she TRIED again telling him o could kiss you right now but won’t.. he said good I don’t want you to. Keep in mind I didn’t find out for a year.

I cant comment on the contemplation- My H was wasted when he cheated- it wasn't something he debated about- he just did it. Like you said though, being drunk is not an excuse. Either way, it hurts like hell.

Has your H clarified what he means by 'figure out the marriage'? What exactly was he trying to figure out? Did he tell you what he ultimately figured out from acting out?

he said good I don’t want you to.

this part is good at least! That he didn't want her to... but it sounds like she's someone that you're lucky to have out of your life. though, the way to find that out sucks big time. I feel like that goes for most of the xbff's referenced in this thread. It isn't fair and it totally sucks but I'm trying to see my situation as 'thank god she's gone!'

She'd been pretty terrible but I'd always made excuses for her behavior and let her get away with constantly making me feel like shit. This was literally the ONLY thing she possibly could have done to make me turn away from her. This one massive hurt is something that will take me a long time to heal from but eventually I will heal and I will be okay. The alternative might have been a lifetime of small jabs, walking on eggshells, feeling bad about myself, etc. At least now once I heal, I won't have that. Small silver lining in the shitstorm that is a double betrayal.

*edited for a typo

[This message edited by betrayalbrokeme at 1:35 PM, January 8th (Tuesday)]

He said that he was doing it to figure out If he could do it ams be ok with it. I guess like does he have respect for me type thing. We were super young and didn’t act married. He said I cared more about what his friends would say then what he did. And I think also she played that caring ear well. I see her do it with everyone. But I think that he got attention and ran with it. This couple is toxic. And I feel so ashamed it letting my hairs down and trusting them.

I'm sorry- that couldn't have been easy to hear. I honestly don't know how I would've reacted to being told that.

I would say boundaries are a must if you decide to pursue R. I'd also say he needs to be in IC and that you should look at MC for the two of you if you're staying together.

One thing I've decided to work on that might be beneficial for you too is to try not to feel ashamed for trying to see the best in people.

What they did isn't a reflection of you- it's of them.

Wanting to believe that others are 'good' isn't something to be ashamed of. I am trying not to lose that part of myself- unfortunately it's going to take work because if I'd have been less trusting and had assumed my xbff was toxic from the beginning, my whole life would have been different. But in the end I'm realizing that that was her shit- not mine. Feeling shame for trusting someone else is just a whole new level of trying to take responsibility for someone else being an asshole. It is not your fault.

And even if you didn't act married or cared too much about his friends opinions, that's no excuse for cheating. You might have some stuff to work out, but there is literally NEVER an excuse for cheating.

I think that what he told me makes sense. Ok here’s I think how it played. My husband went out of town for work and we had friends having a BBQ that weekend. So I went with the couple. ( his best friend and mine) that night we got hammered and stayed the night at the BBQ cause it was so far from where we lived. Her husband ended up talking me and his wife into playing stop poker. The next day I felt so guilty I told my husband. He was so hurt and pissed. We already had a shitty marriage fighting all the time, pay check to paycheck two small kids and parties every weekend. So when she kissed him a few months after the strip poker I guess I can see why he almost did it the second time. Cause also the night he approached her we were in a huge fight. So I can see his thoughts almost. Does that make sense or am I trying to defend a liar?

Personally, I think we all tell ourselves what we need to hear in order to get through it. But you know what, sometimes, I think that's okay.

For example, I was talking to my IC about how I was afraid that maybe I was vilifying my xbff when looking back. Only seeing the bad when there may have been good too. And you know what he said? 'Who cares?' and I realized he was right. I know that I'm not making the bad shit up- it happened. a LOT of it happened over years and years. She constantly put me down, belittled my accomplishments, and used me to make herself feel better. And that alone proves that she was a shitty friend that I'm better off without. If my mind wants to forget any good that might have gone along side it in order to make it easier for me to move on, they why feel bad about it?

Only you can know what is right for you. No one else knows how you really feel or every detail that factors into your decisions.

If that makes sense to you and you know that it won't happen again because of changes you are both committed to making, then do what you need to.

Just don't rug sweep and pretend it didn't happen. talk about it. Address what you need to do to make sure that this relationship is what's best for both of you. Good luck to you

I think what he feel stupid and ashamed in myself about all this is I tried to give her a second chance. I was like ok if I forgave him should I her? So we had moments where we would hang out with the couple and it just made me worse over time. And I think my husband looked at it as it wasn’t that wrong. So it was a challenge to get him to see what he did is not ok it crosses boundaries and I will not deal with it. What really pissed me off is we had this picture of me her and another friend from a cruise we went on. One of his buddies asked to see a pic of his wife so he sent that one. Maybe I am over reading into it but I was pissed he sent that one. I think just cause it had her in it right center. I am just all over the place today... sorry if I don’t make sense I can’t think straight. And I am thinking of how to approach it with him.

again, only you know what is right for you. Some people can spend time with the AP after the fact. I would never be able to. There is no shame in trying to figure things out- it's not like theres a manual for being a bs. But if it made you feel worse, stop doing it and figure something else out.

Personally, the picture thing would bother me.

Hell, any picture of her existing in my house now would bother me. I erased her from existence- even photo shopped her out of my wedding photos. Id say definitely talk to him about it. At this point, if anything bothers you, you need to talk about it. Communication is one of the most important things if you are trying to R. If you bury it, it will come back eventually and you'll resent him.

If he's worth trying to R, he'll want to communicate.

Duplicate post.

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[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:50 PM, February 17th (Sunday)]