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Just a guess but maybe she wanted to become the person she wanted to be. A good wife and mother and following traditions and saw in you a way to go forward with this. It must be hard for her maybe considering she saw herself as the improved person and now she has to go back and look at what she thought was sealed in the past.

There's no way forward but the truth however.

If this way of life is meaningful to you and brings you joy and brings you together then that's wonderful. If you feel you're giving up freedoms because it was primarily her that asked it of you and then she wasn't really doing it herself, that's sad. Again, maybe she had a goal of what she wanted her life to be and wanted that with you and has shut out thoughts of her former days. Growth is always good but there's no need to deny the past. Maybe she thought you wouldn't choose her if you knew?

I'll win no prizes by being right here man. You've extended way more grace than I'll ever have. It's such a sucky situation and there's really no right answer. You can try and hang on for your kids but I hope you don't lose yourself in this endless misery. When will the truth come out? Can she surely say that this wasn't an ongoing affair that continued till you discovered it?

The fundamental issue imo will always be that she kept you in a loveless, sexless relationship and there's just nothing to build upon. No mutual desire. For reconciled couples, atleast there's some past gauge of happiness/satisfaction and honesty that they can aim for. You've never had good times with her. I have no idea what she was thinking. Maybe it's as pureheartkit says. Accept it and then both of you can part ways amicably and be free to find someone who genuinely desires you.

Truth be told, I don't believe her about any of the PA details other than the ones I could corroborate to have, in actuality, been, "almosts."

Brother...read what you wrote here.

How are you still there, with this person, who, you yourself are functionally saying is STILL being dishonest with you...knowing full well that the dishonesty is useless and only hurts you more...and she is still actively doing it...still not owning it...still not giving you the FULL truth...

Brother...respectfully, you gotta walk away from that toxic person. She knows what this is doing to you and still plays games about not remembering.

That's causing you intentional...willful harm.

Someone that loved you would own it fully and not choose to actively cause you further harm by playing games.

Lack of belief about past acts is quite different than trust pertaining to future actions.

I do trust that she'll become a safe partner as she continues to get the help she sorely needs.

That is all.

great post Pureheatkit. I am sorry it is falling on deaf ears with Saddest. I wish him the best but I know he feels trapped. A bad situation

I am sorry it is falling on deaf ears with Saddest.

I have a Jewish mother & married to a Jewish WW.

Passive-aggressiveness is what I fucking eat for munchies throughout the day.

One of the maddening aspects of your thread is the "Through the Looking Glass" aspect of it, where you can't even be certain about factual reality.

One of the maddening aspects of your thread is the "Through the Looking Glass" aspect of it, where you can't even be certain about factual reality.

where you can't even be certain about factual reality.

I don't understand what you mean by that. Could you please elaborate?

Lack of belief about past acts is quite different than trust pertaining to future actions.

In the past, prior to her infidelity, did you believe she would engage in something like that?

Your wife just stated she would be happy to take a poly.

Don't make excuses. Accept that offer today. Since we all know there is more, give her a pass on anything that happened before marraige. You have only been married for 5 years. She had contact with him for the first 2.

Ask her 1 simple question. Have you had ANY sexual contact with anyone since you were married.

She is willing to do it. Don't say you know she will pass. You dont. Schedule it today.

If she passes, accept that there was continued contact PRIOR to the marriage and move forward.

Since we all know there is more, give her a pass on anything that happened before marraige. You have only been married for 5 years. She had contact with him for the first 2.

Ask her 1 simple question. Have you had ANY sexual contact with anyone since you were married.

She is willing to do it. Don't say you know she will pass. You dont. Schedule it today.

If she passes, accept that there was continued contact PRIOR to the marriage and move forward.

This is a good suggestion. I'm not going to tell her to nor will I set it up myself. If she does schedule it on her own & then obtains the exact questions for the polygrapher from me AND I see the printed results, then I probably would be able to focus on that fact that she was (at least physically) faithful once married.

He's not denying reality. I think that's unfair to say. Someone you love and who is ostensibly showing some remorse, it's hard to not believe that they want to help him. A part of me thinks you would be better off if she asked for a divorce.

SD,I think if it comes down to a poly, the relationship is too far gone. Simple yes or no answers won't really solve anything. It isn't conclusive, there's no solid science behind it. Seeing as you're short on money already, don't think about it. The steps you have taken to detach and focus on your personal life is the path forward imo. No need to entertain this madness.

Stabilize yourself. A month or so later, you can tackle this again but with renewed strength and substantially less tolerance for bullshit.

[This message edited by Rustylife at 12:11 PM, June 4th (Tuesday)]

And also, you already know that this affair went on deep into your marriage. A marriage in which you never felt loved and she denied you any intimacy. Does the physical/emotional distinction really matter? She was sexting with the guy. With pics and she had those videos as well. Do you not consider that physical?

This is a good suggestion. I'm not going to tell her to nor will I set it up myself. If she does schedule it on her own & then obtains the exact questions for the polygrapher from me AND I see the printed results, then I probably would be able to focus on that fact that she was (at least physically) faithful once married.

SD, why aren't you taking some initiative in this? Don't you want feel certain that you have the truth? I'm betting you don't want to keep coming back to this and waffling between doubting her and trying to accept her version of events after so much TT. Will you at least inform her that you expect her to schedule it?

SD having followed your threads you seem like a straight shooter. That said, let me ask you a question.

It's been mentioned to you numerous times why you're putting up with your WW stance on not being able to remember things.

So since you're a straight shooter I will ask you again why are you accepting her looking you straight in the eyes and lying to you with the BULL SHIT EXCUSE that she can't remember?

Something else to ponder. Maybe, just maybe, the reason why your pain (and ability to make sense of all this) is getting worse as the days go by is NOT that she cheated and all the sordid details that you currently know but rather you're angry at yourself for letting her off the hook by accepting her flat out lies to you that she can't remember?

You weren't born yesterday, and if anyone other than your wife was making this laughable excuse you would (as a straight shooter) be LAUGHING YOUR ASS OFF that someone would try to spin this excuse.

You can spin it however you want to but at the end of the day you have to look at your reflection in the mirror and live with what you see and more importantly are you being guided (and living by TRUTH) or are you just lying to yourself to justify (and making excuses) for what you KNOW in your heart, soul & spirit to be lies?

Maybe the first step in truly healing is for you to stop lying to yourself and to look her in the eyes and say "NO MORE....I'm giving you ONE opportunity (ONE opportunity) to start spewing the truth and no more of the Bull shit I can't remember".

You set up the polygraph not her!!

She's continued to stick by her lame ass excuse because she takes you for a FOOL because you're putting up with this answer.

insanity is doing the same thing day after day expecting different results. As a straight shooter maybe it's time to get real?

SD, why aren't you taking some initiative in this?

Two reasons.

A) She needs to take initiative now. I understand just how much spoon feeding has been hurting my ability to cope and heal.

B) Because I agree with Rusty on the following, (but he said it better than I could):

if it comes down to a poly, the relationship is too far gone. Simple yes or no answers won't really solve anything.

Before you say they do, let me clarify that those two reasons don't counteract nor contradict each other.

I think the poly would be helpful for HER. I also feel that her showing initiative (such as willingness to do something which, for her, is extreme) will help ME to prove her sincerity to becoming safe for me in any way possible.

It would also be something that (even just by doing it) would be something I could look at and say to myself, "she's not lying anymore after all. I can now believe her account of when she truly fell for me, and that she's not just putting on a show for my sake & her self-preservation."

To emphasize & clarify, I do NOT believe that a poly is absolutely necessary, nor is it the make/break... rather, it's something that could be an added reinforcement for her to show how much she's all-in.

And what will happen if she does not take the initiative in this?

Something else to ponder. Maybe, just maybe, the reason why your pain (and ability to make sense of all this) is getting worse as the days go by is NOT that she cheated and all the sordid details that you currently know but rather you're angry at yourself for letting her off the hook by accepting her flat out lies to you that she can't remember?

This is actually a very likely possibility that I have been pondering in abstract terms. I have to think more on that. Thank you for that insight!

Regardless of the fact that I do feel that the above is possibly very accurate, I do not believe the bolded part of the following:

So since you're a straight shooter I will ask you again why are you accepting her looking you straight in the eyes and lying to you with the BULL SHIT EXCUSE that she can't remember?

If I felt that it was actually bullshit, you think I'd still be here? My gut has been correct all along. I listened to it that there definitely WAS PA, and it was right. Now, however, it's telling me that her inability to remember is NOT bullshit. I can't ignore the greenlights while accepting the redlights.

That would be a self-inflicted bias and would be even more akin to a horse wearing blinders than what you feel my accepting of such seems to be.

Honest question for you, Booyah... Has your gut steered you wrong in terms of your DDay discoveries and aftermath, or did more issues come about due to ignoring your gut based on your emotions?

And what will happen if she does not take the initiative in this?

Honestly, I can't answer that right now, since the answer really would be based on seeing proof of initiative on a macro level.

But again, Rusty's got a very valid point which is the same as my thought - that a yes or no question set doesn't really do as much as I wish it could.