SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

DDay was Aug 14th. I found this site a few weeks after (thank god) and have learned a lot so far but probably rushed into R. We just crossed our 19th wedding anniversary and have been together for 25 years. I had thought the last 5 years of our marriage to be very special to me and thought we had gotten pretty close compared to our early years. I now feel like an idiot. I've been used for years for my wife to prop herself up on social media to 'friends', family, and customers as having a wonderful married life with 2 beautiful children. While she puts on a fake smile everyday hiding all of her past trauma and struggles.

As I was spice rubbing a wonderful tri-tip to put on the grill for dinner and just opened a nice cold beer- I received a phone call from an unknown number on a friday at 3pm. I NEVER answer numbers I don't recognize but something told me to that day. I woman asked if it was me, and if I was married to (my wife's name). I said- yes, do you need her number? This is my cell phone. She said no, I need you- it took a week of digging to find your number. She said "I am going to send you some texts/pics/screen shots because your wife and my husband are having an affair". My heart is in my throat just typing that out. It was such a horrible feeling. Moments later I got the information that is burned into my brain. Naked pictures of herself taken at her small business, legs spread apart. Sexual conversations, etc. The most recent messages were that week and.....some from 2 fricken years prior. The weekend before D day- she sent him a fresh nude shot HOURS after I left town with my son on a fishing trip for a couple days. It looked like she was reaching out for a hookup (denies of course) but apparently her AP's parents were in town and was busy.

When my wife got home from work I said "we need to talk". She of course acted like she didn't know what about. Even though her AP had called her that morning and told her that his wife had seen his phone. She also sent pics to his family/parents. So, she knew I knew.

Obviously everything on her phone/email had gotten deleted by then. I said I've seen enough. What else is there I need to know? How many times have you had sex? Are there other partners? She didn't hesitate and said twice (sex), no other partners. We could instantly pin point those 2 times almost 2 years ago to when I left down with both kids on a christmas week trip and one month later when I was on an ice fishing trip with my son on his b-day. They supposedly went months at a time without talking but he had recently asked her for 'fresh pics' so her clothes came off and she spread her legs for him and his fresh pics and got the attention she was seeking. 3 years ago she wanted to get a tummy tuck/breast lift to 'feel better about herself'. I helped pay for that. I discovered recently she had secretly been taking weight loss drugs even though she's not overweight. Around the same time as her surgery she also got laser hair removal 'down there'. The timing looks pretty bad. I don't think all that was for her to feel better about herself.

This was a guy she met years ago at her gym, 5:30 am class. But said he doesn't go to the 5:30 class anymore (not that it matters). I said- stop going to the gym. Deleted/block all numbers. She did both. I found out from the gym owner weeks ago that her AP quit the gym. After talking with him (my wife told him why she wasn't there for 2 weeks) I let her go back so I didn't have to hear her whine about it. She claimed NO OTHER GYM is good enough/has a 'community' like the one she's been going to for 9 years. I even offered to start going with her before work in the mornings to a new/diff gym. My 16 year old daughter also works at this gym! I told her she better tell her before she finds out from the rumor mill/gym- and she did. I've never seen my daughter bawl like that for so long ever in my life and was horrible to witness.

After calling several lawyers and ultimately choosing a mediation service (if/when I needed them) I was able to process a tiny bit and 3-4 days after D-day I started researching about recovering from this. I found a very expensive 'make it or break it' emergency couples counseling program and took us a few weeks to get through including our letters to each other (victim impact letter/ her disclosure letter/fairly weak 'timeline'. I felt really good coming out of that experience- she shared/talked more than she ever has. But once we get home it's a different story. Won't talk much face to face. She said we can email each other but doesn't answer half my questions. We started 2 days ago with a longer term MC and it went well and I have her locked down for the next 4-5 weeks. She has had 4 IC sessions and I have my 4th today. I don't think she's been honest with her IC about how bad her depression is/has been and has NEVER talked to anyone about it and has never been medicated. I was close to calling 911 several times in the early days after Dday as she "didn't feel like she deserved to live" but "wouldn't act on it". I begged her 17 years ago to see an IC because I knew of 'some' of the childhood/college age trauma (way too many casual sex partners, none of were actual relationships in college, an abortion during that time, etc). This was all before we met. I have been her only relationship she's ever been in.

So, it's slow going. I wish I knew of the 180 before I did. Is it too late to start that??? I've been trying too hard and she doesn't seem to be trying hard enough. She bury's herself at her store and I've asked for a better work/life balance from her for many many years. We've never taken a vacation together in 20 years because of this reason. She's there weekends/many evenings after dinner. She refuses to hire help. Her parents know NOTHING about the real her/trauma problems and some are pointed towards them. Her mom works with her part time and then never talk about anything of substance- it's sad. I've read everything, she'll listen to bits of audio books with me here and there (too busy w work) . She is saying the right things but I sure don't feel it coming through yet with solid actions. I was begging for a couple crumbs (words) of hope once in a while but it's like pulling teeth and I'm feeling like one of my feet is half way out the door. I have had enough time at least to understand MY WORTH. And that I deserve someone in life that loves and respects me and right now it's obviously not her- but I am giving it my best shot before I give up.

I honestly feel lately that she's been pushing me away. TRYING to get me to crack and call it quits so she'd have something to blame on me! She claims that's not the case she's just riddled with shame and guilt and depressed.

The AP's wife told me he initially denied it was sexual. But then told her the same (sex 2 times). But they could have made that number up the morning of D day. Right after her physical parts we all installed the 360gps app on ours and kids phones. So, maybe that saved many more times of them getting together? I don't know.

Too late for the 180? Post nup aggreement? I'm currently working on my boundaries/consequences.

Thank you all. I have learned a lot already. It's taken a lot of courage to share my misery.

You can bank on them correlating their story. This has been going on far too long and is much too advanced to even begin to believe it is that little in frequency.

Now to you. If you continue to carry this, it is literally empowering her to not have to carry anything. Lay this squarely at her feet and tell her it is her responsibility to unfuck this thing if she wants any shot at reconciliation.

Lastly, are you SURE the AP is done with the gym? Are you sure they are truly NC? My gut is tingling a bit over both of those prospects.

[This message edited by farsidejunky at 7:00 PM, Wednesday, September 23rd]

I do now have access to phone/email and check on things. His number/emails blocked/deleted. But, he could simply stop by her business or call the biz phone or email too. I personally talked to the gym owner that he quit and would not go there out of 'respect' for our daughter that works there I guess.

If we do end up staying together. I will most likely ask for a polygraph in hopes to know for sure if there were more than one affair partners, and if the '2 times' is a lie. Thank you

If she isn't fully participating then I don't think you're currently reconciling. She's waiting for things to blow over so she can return to the status quo.

There's a saying here. Don't pay attention to what they say. Pay attention to what they do. Your wife seems to be paying some lip service with the former, but is lacking in the latter. Not that words don't matter, they do, but if they don't align with actions then what good are they?

I don't like the fact that they were able to coordinate their stories before you were able to confront. I have a lot of trouble believing there were only 2 trysts over a period of multiple years if he's local enough to be in the same gym as your wife.

I'm getting the sense from what you're typing that she's just doing some bare minimum stuff to appease you without trying to do any real work. She should be taking the lead on recovery if she wants to repair this.

I put up with far more than I should have for the first month after my d day and dealt with a remorseless wife who deflected, lied, hid things, and tried to maintain her affair behind my back until I hit the end of my rope and started calling divorce lawyers right in front of her. That's when everything changed and she really rolled her sleeves up, came completely clean, and started real work on repairing the damage she'd done. That was a little over 17 months ago, and she's been very consistent ever since.

I don't know where we'd be right now if I hadn't made those phone calls, but I do know that when things got real and she was faced with real consequences that's when things really started turning around in my situation.

I'd hold off on the marriage counseling unless you got lucky enough to find a good one who has experience with infidelity, but there are a lot of them out there who have a sneaky way of blaming the betrayed spouse for the choices of the cheating spouse by citing unmet needs or neglect or whatever. It doesn't matter what issues may have existed before the affair, no one forces anyone to lie, cheat, and sneak around. There are a hundred other options for dealing with marital issues. Cheating is a choice and you had no say in the matter. So be careful with marriage counseling.

[This message edited by Pogre at 8:24 PM, Wednesday, September 23rd]

The AP's wife told me he initially denied it was sexual. But then told her the same (sex 2 times).

You’re still in absolute shock and so you’re literally unable to think clearly. Try to calm your mind as best you can, and then think this through: so this relationship has been underway for TWO YEARS, at least, and they are in the same physical area, do you TRULY think this guy would be risking all that he was to have sex TWO TIMES with your wife? I’m sorry man, but the probability that’s true is 0.000001%.

The relevant part here is that your wife is NOT AT ALL remorseful. Again, you’re in shock, so you can’t fully comprehend this yet, but for there to be ANY chance at a meaningful reconciliation, assuming that’s unconditionally what you want, is for the adulterer to be 100% remorseful. Most betrayed have ZERO idea what that actually means. Most think it means their betraying spouse says ‘sorry’ a few times, maybe with some tears. That is NOT REMORSE. That’s merely baseline embarrassment of getting caught. True remorse looks more like this:

- 100% full disclosure of ALL truth. Immediately willing to write a FULL DETAILED TIMELINE and then fully agreeable to take a polygraph to affirm the written timeline is fully honest and complete, to the best of her memory. She also gets asked whether there’s been any other infidelity (it’ll be defined) since you two met. She PASSES the polygraph verifying the written timeline.

- 100% accepting of the natural consequences of her choices. Both your and her parents informed - she tells them with you there. You deserve support and she needs loving accountability from both families.

- She’s willing to STOP MC because it’s WAY TOO SOON for that.

- She enters into DEEP IC to dig into why she gave herself permission to stab you in the back. Not twice, but likely thousands of times if you include each and every betrayal (from secret texts, convos, meetups, badmouthing you, physical infidelity, etc)

- She’s willing to sign a post-nuptial giving you absolutely the max allowed under the law should you decide to pull the plug later for ANY reason (do NOT assume you’ll be able to easily get over this)

- She’s immediately available to answer ALL of your questions, FOREVER. Doesn’t matter if you’ve asked the same question 1000 times already. She doesn’t gets defensive about it.

- She’s focussed almost entirely on YOUR pain and suffering as a result of her actions and NOT MERELY HER OWN. Your wife is MILES from this. This is remorse. I’m not even sure your wife is regretful, based on how she’s acting.

I think you’ve realized you’re in shock and you’ve already made mistakes. Almost everyone does. It is NOT too late to look to the above and see if she’s even remotely remorseful. I don’t see it, but I’m not there. It’s time to demand a full and complete timeline, which she then must give you a copy and read it to you. Watch her while she does this. Then tell her she will undergo a polygraph. Does she immediately agree to that?

Please don’t force reconciliation. That NEVER works. Keep posting!

MNBS,

I’m sorry you are here. What an awful situation.

You should get your daughter some therapy as well. What an unbearable scene that must have been. As the child of an unfaithful parent, I know how hard that is. It will help her and she needs it. Is your WW doing anything to rebuild her relationship with your child?

Have you considered asking for a joint therapy session with your WW? You can see what she’s telling her IC and get some of that harder stuff out there.

I think the affair started 3 years ago based on what you’ve said. That’s pretty long. Part of what you’re likely seeing is withdrawal. Your WW’s A was (like most of them) almost certainly limerence. My superficial understanding of limerence is that it’s basically an addiction - people get obsessed with someone who provides them validation as a form of self-avoidance. It is away of avoiding focusing on what’s hurting or missing inside you. But like any addition, there’s withdrawal if you quit.

That said, she’s not currently R material, if she’s not doing things to help repair. She may be stuck in a shame spiral, which is no good for either of you.

You may want to give her Joseph’s Letter (you can find it in the Healing Library, print it out in a way that doesn’t reveal this site so it can be a safe space for you). That will help her understand the importance of full and honest disclosure.

A post-nup is a good idea if it’s enforceable in your jurisdiction. You will have to talk to a lawyer about that.

Never too late to do the 180, also in the healing library (make sure to read the FAQs on it). But that is to help you emotionally detach. It’s not a consequence for her. It’s to protect you from further pain, and usually employed when the wayward won’t stop the A and separation is inevitable.

Thank you all who have replied. I need the truth for once. It's hard to hear but I need this advice and encouragement. I failed to mention. My daughter has done a couple sessions with an IC too and certainly finds value in it so far, my son did too and doesn't want to do it anymore of course and doesn't feel like he's effected by this at all (wrong). My daughter's dropped us (had to reschedule 2 appts so that's maybe why?) so I'm working on getting her into another one. I will ask my wife to ask her therapist if we can be in one together. We'll see. She does have an appt with her 'woman's) Dr that I will be going with to help her communicate. She claims she told this lady she was depressed a year ago but that was it- nothing more was talked about.

My d day was also August 14th. Cheers and welcome to the group that we didn’t want to be a part of, but we’re glad we’re here. Sorry to hear about what you discovered as it must have been absolutely traumatizing for you. I agree with the advice of the above posters. Focusing on her own depression and feeling bad makes her the victim in this situation. She has to put you first.

I have started this 4 times. Are you steaming mad yet? Are you still in shock? It sounds like you are frantically running around putting out fires while she blows on the embers. This is the bargaining stage of grief. It happens to most of us. Not me, I simply pulled an ostrich and put my head in the sand so I never went through these stages. So take what I type with that in mind.

Slow down. You are not going to fix anything until you get your breath. Talk to an attorney about what you need if you R or if you D. Knowledge is power. Then contact a dr for temp meds to get your body to calm down. You are too revved up.

Lastly, you sound like a good husband and a great father. She is not anywhere near you on those. So my suggestion is to look at yourself as a prize worth winning and keeping. Let her earn you back. Right now you are doing all the heavy lifting. Be her choice not an option. You deserve better than her leftovers.

Silly question, but are the deleted texts still in the trash bin? You know the answers have been coordinated and there is more to it than she is saying otherwise she would not have deleted the texts. Honestly if I were you I’d file and if she wants to save the marriage out it on her to find a way to restore the messages.

I’m so sorry your whole family has been impacted by this nightmare. I applaud you for seeking professional counseling for all involved.

I’m sorry your wife is using excuses to justify her behavior and not engaging in counseling the way she should. FYI I find most cheaters will avoid counseling or just go thorough the motions. I think they are cowards and afraid to face their issues.

You wife’s past and depression and all that crap has NOTHING to do with cheating. She made the Choice to cheat. More than once too.

Having survived two affairs I can tell you your wife is not doing anything to make amends or show you she’s putting you & marriage recovery as a priority. After my H’s first affair I allowed it to be swept under the rug. He stonewalled me for 4 years and made ME out to be "crazy" and suspicious over nothing.

After the second typical midlife crisis affair, I initially did the same thing. I was being kind and loving and supportive and very willing to Reconcile.

However while I was R he was still cheating!

So when dday2 happened I became a completely different person. Initially (like first 25 hours after dday2) he thought he was going to control everything and after a few days I would "calm down" and he would sweet talk his way out if this.

Except he could not do that. Why? Because I changed. I had a plan B during his affair (b/c he kept saying he wanted a D). In short order I kicked him to the curb, told him I was D him and exactly how life was going to be right after the Christmas holidays when we were going to a mediator.

Now I was calling the shots. All of them. He begged me to R. I told him do what you want but I wasn’t lifting a finger to help him. I didn’t set boundaries or tell him to go to counseling or tell him what I needed to R. He. Was. On. His. Own.

Initially I really didn’t care b/c I was D him so it didn’t matter to me what he did in those few weeks.

However in 30 days he managed to turn it around. On his own. No help or support from me.

The difference was he had a wake up call. He never thought I would stand up up him (and stop being a doormat). That forced him into action.

Ok so getting back to your situation. I’m sorry to say your wife is not doing anything to make your marriage or you a priority. She’s sorry she got caught. That’s it. She has no remorse, she’s not doing anything to help you heal and expects YOU to carry this weight around and "get over it".

I’m sorry for you. You deserve better. You have been married to someone who is taking advantage of you. And giving you very little in return.

I don’t know where you go from here. IMO the hard 180 is still an option to you — so is a post nup (though legally they can be challenged if she would even sign one).

My point is you need to make yourself a priority. Not her. Not the marriage. YOU.

And FWIW I think she really showed very poor judgement having an affair at a gym where your daughter works/worked. She really didn’t care about anyone but herself.

BTW I don’t get why gyms are a breeding ground for cheating. Honestly — it’s so cliche and ridiculous. But then again the co-conspirator Cheater sounds like this is his MO. I’m certain she wasn’t the only one he had an affair with.

Don’t be afraid yo put yourself first. Because it doesn’t sound like your wife is doing anything to put your healing first. She’s expecting you to "get over it" and life goes back to normal like it was pre-affair.

Again she’s not getting it. And it appears she doesn’t want to.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 3:48 PM, Thursday, September 24th]

Welcome to the club that no one ever thought they would be a member of. Since your wife and her AP knew that you had been informed that gave the two of them opportunity to correlate their stories and come up with something that would minimize the damage. Could they have only gotten together sexually two times? Sure. But over 2 years? Doesn't seem plausible, especially given their access to each other

Words are easy, actions take effort. Your wife destroyed the relationship so it's up to her to do the heavy lifting. This is where action comes in. From what you have written she is still devoting the majority of her time to work, some to family, very little to R. A truly repentant WS with drag their naked butt through miles of broken glass if it would help repair the relationship.

No, it is not too late to implement the 180. I also suggest you meet with a couple of attorneys to know where you stand should the relationship end and I wouldn't hide this from your wife. She needs to understand that what she has done may very well have forever destroyed the relationship

Ask her to write out a complete timeline of the affair, leaving out nothing, every detail no matter how small. When she is finished ask her if she has been completely honest and if she says yes then ask her if she is willing to take a polygraph. If her immediate response is yes then there's a chance she was honest but if she says no or pushes back then you can probably assume she wasn't. WS's tend to only confess as much as they feel is necessary to satisfy the BS's questions. Rarely is the entire truth confessed, this is out of fear that it will be too much for the relationship to survive

But until your wife is willing to drag her naked butt through miles of broken glass R is almost impossible.

When I confronted my wife she just sat there with her arms folded, zero empathy, shooting daggers at me with her eyes. First she tried minimization and dismissal, then she switched to anger. After an hour-long conversation the best I got was I'm sorry this upsets you and it was said with absolutely zero empathy

The next morning she was still mad at me for discovering and ruining her fun little secret. I was a babbling train wreck and she had the audacity to be angry with me. When she came home from work that Friday afternoon I said I need time to think and I cannot do that bumping into you and I refuse to spend the entire weekend staring at the ground. There is a suitcase upstairs, I cannot make you leave but I need you to leave so please leave

She stared at me for a few seconds, walked upstairs, packed a bag, came downstairs and said something to our two older boys, walked into the kitchen and said I'm leaving, again zero empathy or remorse in her voice, I said okay and she walked out. For all I knew she drove to a hotel and called her AP to tell him where he could find her

We met two days later on a Sunday afternoon in a public place and I went to the meeting ready to say we are divorcing if she still had the balls to be angry with me, but she had two days to think about what had happened and she did a 180. She showed up full of tears and remorse and apologies.

But it still took her a while to start really doing any work towards repairing the relationship. She was pushing for rug sweeping because that was easiest for her. The first time we went to a MC she asked why we were meeting and I said quite honestly to see if we are going to divorce.

We are at 29 months and things are(were) better but we recently had a huge setback because of my wife's overwhelming desire to be a people pleaser. That's a long story for another day

From what I have learned on average it takes two to three years to process through the discovery of infidelity and years beyond that trying to rebuild Trust. I will never again implicitly trust my wife, that ability has been permanently destroyed in me. Where I to discover another affair I think I would just shrug my shoulders and execute my exit plan

Before the affair I would have given my life without hesitation to protect my wife but today were a situation to present itself where I had to choose between me or her, I will choose me because she has demonstrated that my undying love for her in the past meant little

I will never again allow myself to become so emotionally vulnerable with a partner. At my age, 55, it's just not worth it anymore. She will never again have 100% of my heart

[This message edited by WB1340 at 1:17 PM, Thursday, September 24th]

I am truly sorry I did not get top notch legal advice from day one. And I am truly sorry you are going through this. Infidelity is so painful and damaging.

Had I gotten good legal advice I would not have fallen for the legal trap laid by my wexh: my faithfully attempting reconciliation legally negated EXWH’s adultery. And he orchestrated this on purpose to avoid the consequences of his behavior. So I am a huge proponent of post nups. Hindsight is 20:20.

Also I am on team I can’t imagine some gym cheater male would continue to risk his marriage for sex twice in years.

I strongly urge people to take exquisite care of their sexual health and go somewhere that provides well informed full panel screening at appropriate intervals.

In retrospect I should have demanded a post nup and a direct to me full sexual health screening of my WEXH. (In my case his VA health care provider declined to screen him for Herpes 2 exposure because they said that if he came back positive I would be angry…of course I would!)

This is hard stuff. Sending positive thoughts for you and your DC at this time.

So sorry friend. Horrible tragedy. I concur with the great advice given. I would just add a couple things.

To help understand what really is happening in your brain, search Dr. Jake Porter on YouTube and watch his content. He is expert in field.

Next, I think you should keep polygraph in the limelight. I have heard so many accounts where on the way to polygraph, a spouse reveals the truth...which was much more than what they admitted to.

I am not sure if you should do that immediately, but maybe you should if you are holding boundary that if she I currently lying, you would definitely divorce. You could save lots of time and energy by getting polygraph sooner than later.

Finally what helped me survive was seeking God like never before. He showed up for me and will for you.

Thanks for the advice everyone. My folks are in town today/tonight and they will be sleeping in the extra bedroom. From tomorrow on......my wife will be sleeping there. I'm sure she'll appreciate not witnessing me waking up with mind movies/bad dreams and crying myself back to sleep.

It's really bothering me she doesn't have the guts to tell her parents! I'd like her to eventually address the situation with mine as well (not today at our sons fb game obviously). Her mom works for her part time, they see each other for hours several days a week and they never talk about anything serious. Her whole family sucks at communicating in general- but 'feelings'? Good luck with that!

After 20+ years of working twice as many hours as anyone should be (without earnings millions of dollars) I 'suggested' she maybe thought about the idea of selling her business to help create a better work/life balance. To my surprise she allowed me to gather the tax documents from our tax guy (friend of mine) and we gave them to a business realtor for valuation and there has been some talks. While mad the other night- she said she did it just because I suggested it and wasn't really interested in selling it. She also won't hire any help for some reason!? She's deathly afraid she doesn't have any "skills" to get another meaningful job. She's got a 4 year business degree and 20 years owning/operating a successful business so I'm confident she'd be FINE finding meaningful work. But when you've never done anything else I'm sure it's scary. We CAN afford for her to take some much needed time to work on herself while she figured things out and TO ME that looks like perfect timing in life to do that! It doesn't help she doesn't have a single hobby in the world besides the F****** gym.

From all you have written, I read low self esteem, depression and troubles with forming bonds. These are all selfish and self centered conditions, so yes, a lot of selfishness. I'm sure that she is much more comfortable hiding in her shop then sitting with you and pretending great empathy and remorse. Selfishness, remember?

I think that you have done enough to show her your willingness to try to reconcile and perhaps rebuild a better relationship. It's not what she wants right now and she has the right to not participate. You have the right to turn away from her and take care of yourself.

I’d suggest maybe tabling the career stuff for her. It sounds like reconciliation is still an unknown. Let’s say it’s 50/50. There is a 50% chance that will no longer care what she does as long as she’s there for kids. I like to try to handle just one problem at a time and this seems like one of those things.