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I can't avoid to still feel empathy for her, seeing her going through this struggle.

It's both understandable and at the same time incomprehensible why she chose to do what she did.

This is what she told from her last session:

- She felt me as 'out of her league'

Apparently she saw me as 'too worthy' for her. Too intelligent, too attractive, too brave, too confident, too driven, too much moral integrity, too fond of her, too much loving her. She claim I was all that she always wanted. So she had to betray and ditch me

- She does not deserve what she has

Her achievements, her career, her success. As long as others have those they are desirable and worthy. The moment she achieved them they became worthless, undeserved, surely it was a mistake she was allowed to get there. She also always felt she does not deserve me.

- Perception of her position in the world

She feels the pull towards contempt and superiority for those who rank lower in her professional environment or social circle (feeling does not apply to strangers, only to people that she interacts daily with). Towards her peers she feels inadequate, insecure (no matter if she is better or truly worse). Towards her superior she feels submissive and longing for recognition.

- Coping with insecurity

The only way she learned how to feel empowered is by crushing her low self worth. Her copying mechanisms is A) put down others to a lower level where she can look down to (this works long term) B) receive validation from "higher status" people (this is only short term coping). Her IC noted that she applied this mechanism over and over toward me to feel "equal" by establishing superiority, thus removing her insecurities.

- OM selection

She chose ugly, immoral but "high status" (at least in their little pond) men to cheat with, being used, discarded, trated like trash. In some ways this even made her feel better as she could "show me"she can do it.

I can understand parts of it. I am still not entirely sure how should I interpret this or if she would not simply be happier without me in her life. It is hard to exclude I might have been a significant cause in her decisions and therefore a negative influence no matter how much she says she loves me.

She never had this with men before me (though she was choosing that kind of abusive guys). Was I the trigger? Is difficult to exclude that at least in part is 'my fault' for being wrong for her.

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 1:20 PM, Thursday, January 15th]

I don’t think what you are describing is unusual for a ws.

When one doesn’t love themselves they are prone to look for proof the don’t fit in, are unloved, rather than to look for the opposite.

In addition, many of us grew up in chaos. When chaos isn’t present it feels love isn’t present or healthy relationships are boring.

When we pick the AP we often choose someone who is emotionally unavailable and also sort of a pig in mud comraderie. Their lack does bring feelings of superiority and having sort of an upper hand.

This behavior is addictive because of the push pull dynamic that most affairs have due to the lack of availability, stability. The highs are caused by adrenaline and happy chemicals flooding the brain. Then, when we get treated like shit, the mood goes very low. It’s confirmation that not even someone we see as our equal (because of their moral ambiguity) or even our lesser is rejecting us. We double down on impressing them to remind them how awesome we are because we need them to carry that candle for us- their validation becomes over time more important than our own or anyone else’s. Once discarded, moving forward unchecked, the ws wouod be still addicted to those highs and lows and will seek it out in someone else.

One of the more minor reasons I confessed is because I knew that would be the cycle. As a young person I spent a lot of time obsessing over unrequited love. I had seen where I had been here before on a much smaller and less damaging scale. I knew I would want to mend the wounds of AP’s rejection by seeking out a similar situation to make me feel better. I wanted that adrenaline and dopamine back. And when you have this issue often that lack feels deep. It’s like you just want to find a new crack dealer. By putting myself in therapy and telling my husband it was a way to find accountability to kind of wedge myself back out of this pattern. But it was a hard road to walk.

I usually think the ws is on that road when I hear the empathy in the bs. It takes a lot to peak out from your own devastation and see your ws is really truly digging and finding the terrible truths.

The thing is even though this is very personal to you. None of this behavior is about you. You are basically a casualty in her war with herself. If she wants to change she can. It will be a long uphill battle of being mindful over her self talk, her motivations, and ultimately fixing the relationship she has with herself.

I felt very similiar that my husband was better than me. He grew up in an uncomplicated family. He was raised to believe in himself and don’t live in chaos. His family was such better fabric than mine. People like him immediately. He exudes competence and confidence. I had myself convinced he married me (I was his third wife) because he believed how much I loved him and that felt secure. I believed he liked having me around to take care of his domestic stuff and someone to regularly have sex with. All those things were about what I believed I needed to supply rather thnq believing he loved me for who I am.

And in an unfortunate way there were things he was saying tha made it feel like a confirmation. Like I would ask him why he loved me and he would talk about my selflessness and how I work so hard to make sure our family is taken care of.

Of course those things were sincere, and nothing wrong with it. But I didn’t feel it was true either. Because unconsciously part of me knew I was doing those things to hustle for love and that I wasn’t as selfless, and I wanted more for myself in the way of being taken care of. But I didn’t feel worthy and I was avoidant.

The revelations your wife has uncovered in IC are positive. You can’t begin to change what you don’t acknowledge. These things she is revealing to you are tender, vulnerable because they are ugly things she probably doesn’t want to realize. And it’s overwhelming to try and figure out how it could ever be different when these thoughts were built upon from the time she was young.

My husband was my first healthy partner as well. I felt like I hit the jackpot. And then the self doubt and all my avoidant tendencies and people pleasing clouded my vision in making me believe that there is no way this wonderful man can love me. I am convenient and useful.

I can’t assure you that she will change these things. I can’t only acknowledge most of what you wrote was true for me and that none of it has to do with you or whether you are good for her. I think you likely are the best thing that happened to her and that’s why she couldn’t accept it as something she deserves.

[This message edited by hikingout at 1:54 PM, Thursday, January 15th]

I think you likely are the best thing that happened to her and that’s why she couldn’t accept it as something she deserves.

Believe it or not word by word she told me that before the first betrayal, after, before the second, after, and she still says that.

I saw those things in her perfectly, I liked her because I could feel her shadow side too and I did not care.

I behaved in a similar, destructive way when I was hurt young by my first infatuation (betrayal there too, right in front of my eyes).

Difference I was single, I was a model dating models, actresses (younger or older did not care, it was validation) or the prettiest / most desired girls around. And I never touched one in a relationship, even worse if she was interested I felt sick.

No attachment, no emotions, no exclusivity, I have always been "unavailable".

But the true deep reason what the belief was I was not worthy and unlovable.

So everything felt hollow and pointless.

She changed that, she made me feel loved for the first time in my life, I believed,

Then confirmed it when she betrayed me.

I see now it was a trauma combination from hell.

I feel empathy, still cannot take it out of my mind, "is she now so much in love and with so much desperation and limerence because she feels I changed and can walk if I so choose?"

I want her to heal, for herself first.

That's the only way I could reconsider, maybe.

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 2:26 PM, Thursday, January 15th]

hikingout I needed to hear this so much:

I usually think the ws is on that road when I hear the empathy in the bs. It takes a lot to peak out from your own devastation and see your ws is really truly digging and finding the terrible truths.

The thing is even though this is very personal to you. None of this behavior is about you. You are basically a casualty in her war with herself. If she wants to change she can. It will be a long uphill battle of being mindful over her self talk, her motivations, and ultimately fixing the relationship she has with herself.

My w and I had a long, hard conversation last night about this very thing. The "casualty in a war with herself" is exactly how I feel. I hear the words "it had nothing to do with you or something you lacked", but they are hard to believe. And "peaking out from my own devastation" to see her struggling is something I'm trying, and mostly failing, most days. But I'm trying.

My w is struggling mightily with feeling the need to "prove" herself to everyone who's been damaged by her A. Me, our daughters, her close friends... and my pain and expressed need for her to fix me (which I don't say outright, but definitely convey). Her IC talked about her shame cycle, and the need to prove herself feeding into her identity issues. I know this is positive for her to be working through. On one hand, though, I selfishly just want her to keep showering me with affection and remorse and focus on ME. It sounds awful, but it's true. Every time her shame and guilt pertain to our kids, or other family/friends, or even just grieving the loss of her old, "innocent" self, I almost get jealous. I want it all for me, because I'm so wounded. Pulling myself out of that hole, and seeing any progress she makes as good for our marriage and therefore healing for me, even if it's not directly related to the hurt she caused ME, is hard. But I'm trying. And she's trying.

[This message edited by Carpenter81 at 3:51 PM, Thursday, January 15th]

and my pain and expressed need for her to fix me (which I don't say outright, but definitely convey)

Please take this in the right way: you feel this need because she hurt you and you want a proof of love she could show by fixing you.
But in truth only you can heal yourself. Only her can heal herself.

On one hand, though, I selfishly just want her to keep showering me with affection and remorse and focus on ME. It sounds awful, but it's true.

It is a human feeling and in part is the way she mends to the wounds she caused.

But try to consider seriously, you are running the risk of creating a co-dependant relationship. Which is not healthy, it will rebound back, possibly creating another betrayal.

You must try to heal yourself first for you, then for her.

She must do the same.

I know it is hard when you feel wounded, but finding the strength to get an inner focus, like you are factually 'alone', is critical.

Does not mean to wall her out, accept her warmth when she offers you. Do not beg for it, Do not pursue it. Live your life for yourself, it will help your healing (and hers)

What hikingout wrote is so true and I really think this is going on with her. The list you gave at the beginning itemized some of her "defense mechanisms" that almost seem diagnostic of a narcissist. In psychology we studied the disorders, and narcissism is one of the most puzzling of the disorders to understand; as you said yourself, it doesn't make sense. It is thought to be the result of deep-seated low self-esteem that gets covered up with a strong need to associate with only superior people. To act "as if." And to spurn others.

Also we were taught in counseling methods that doing effective work with a narcissist can be very challenging for a therapist, since a narcissistic client usually is willing to face their issues only when 'their back is against the wall,' so to speak. And progress is often hard to achieve if their resistance remains high. Thus she may not hear anything from the IC about narcissistic personality traits, as it would not serve any positive purpose. But I feel that you may want to know this, if that is what you are dealing with.

Best.

I feel empathy, still cannot take it out of my mind, "is she now so much in love and with so much desperation and limerence because she feels I changed and can walk if I so choose?"

It’s a valid question. I would keep holding it as evidence will appear as time moves along. You do not seem ready to pull the plug yet and you seem open to any marital outcome and in the end that objectivity is needed.

I think working on myself redefined love for me, even commitment, marriage. Having that different vision and growing along with that focus has changed a lot of my wiring.

By the way I want to clarify that I don’t think empathy for the ws is required or owed. I am just saying when real work is being done it’s evident, it provides some hope, and it allows us to connect with each other in the shared loss, shared struggle.

Carpenter81-

This might be an incorrect assumption but I think you may just be earlier in your timeline and what you describe in wanting all her care and attention is natural. With children for example, it can hurt the relationship but there is a tie there that makes it more likely for repair if the appropriate steps are taken. In a romantic relationship it doesn’t have the naturally unconditional aspects. An affair disproves romantic love so you want to have a lot of validation and proof. Normal.

I do not think empathy for a ws is available until deeper into the healing process. Even then it still may not be available, nor is it required or owed. So so not hold on to those words as a benchmark of anything. I specifically hear it in storms posts, but he seems a bit more detached to an outcome.

One thing to remember- your wife can’t fix you. She can provide an environment in which you can heal, which may speak to whether you can ultimately reconcile. She can show consistency and love and a commitment to her own growth. She can intentionally build trust. But unfortunately, the trauma of infidelity reverberates all sorts of things throughout your lifetime - past trauma, how you learned to cope, pas romantic disappointments, all sort of things that in essence shape us can work against us in healing after infidelity. If you are open to individual therapy, or perhaps education through books or podcasts you can increase your self awareness and that can often put you in a path that you can heal regardless of your ws. Regardless of your marital outcome. I can hear the pain you are in, and I am so sorry you are experiencing it.

The list you gave at the beginning itemized some of her "defense mechanisms" that almost seem diagnostic of a narcissist.

@Superesse

Her diagnosis looks like this:

- fearful-avoidant attachment style

- low self worth

- emotionally unavailable

Therapist did not mention narcissism, I did tell her openly though. I told her her attitude to "regain power" shows narcissistic tendencies.

She is not at her comfort with high status people (that's my circle, she is always feeling out of place, while I tell her she is perfectly fine girl, she finds it exhausting), she does not try to impress, she tend to minimize herself in public (and me, real bad when she used to do in front of my investors or shareholders, caused me some trouble, but was coming to her instinctively. She now completely stopped to minimize me, on the contrary, however she still tends to do to herself, so I pick it up and 'elevate' her because is self-sabotage and she does not deserve it).

You are correct, those tendencies are there, though I think she is mostly rebounding from her low self worth when she is dealing with people that those above placed under her (mostly office hierarchy, she regrets every time when she gets arrogant with her underlings, I know she is afraid to be judged by their actions, but also I believe the above plays a significant role).

By the way I want to clarify that I don’t think empathy for the ws is required or owed. I am just saying when real work is being done it’s evident, it provides some hope, and it allows us to connect with each other in the shared loss, shared struggle.

@hikingout

You are correct, it is not due, and definitively when I was damaged it was a ping pong between that and dark emotions (following her ping pong between being present and following her patterns of self worth issues).

I developed a sense of empathy different from before even her, is more universal acceptance of people as they are, good and bad. Strangely enough not feeling the pain, but inner peace, moved me from distrust to openness. Yes I am detached from outcomes, I am fine with whatever because I never felt so confident and whole in my entire life.

That made me feel more for other people than less. If it makes any sense.

About her Therapy

Yesterday I told her "do you want to go through couple therapy?"

She proposed me during my depression, I refused because I knew it would have done nothing. Now she is scared at the idea to go. Her IC was happy to hear this.

She might be afraid because she knows if I disagree with something I voice it without flinching, so she might be fearful I will argue with the counselor (which I doubt it is going to happen).

I do not mind, do not need it at all, but if that can help her I am into it.

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 5:33 PM, Thursday, January 15th]

It does. But I think that empathy shows up in many reconciliations. Bs may not forgive the cheating but those who reconcile (not just stay married) I believe it happens because the ws does dig in deep, and armed with that information changes, and as a result the narrative around it all expands for the bs. You can hate what they did, never accept it as a healthy choice but form an understanding through the process of the ws discovering themself. It’s a knowing not a guessing, like you know the truth when you hear it.

So my commentary is she is realizing some things that are hard for an avoidant to face but she is in it. That doesn’t dictate your decisions of course, but I sort of recognized that while her discoveries are perplexing and a bit foreign to you, the belief is there so it allows for what I am calling empathy in this context.

It does. But I think that empathy shows up in many reconciliations. Bs may not forgive the cheating but those who reconcile (not just stay married) I believe it happens because the ws does dig in deep, and armed with that information changes, and as a result the narrative around it all expands for the bs. You can hate what they did, never accept it as a healthy choice but form an understanding through the process of the ws discovering themself. It’s a knowing not a guessing, like you know the truth when you hear it.

So my commentary is she is realizing some things that are hard for an avoidant to face but she is in it. That doesn’t dictate your decisions of course, but I sort of recognized that while her discoveries are perplexing and a bit foreign to you, the belief is there so it allows for what I am calling empathy in this context.

I said it before and it does sound cheesy:
I believe that even if people tend to think it is weakness, when a BS chooses to stay and R with their WS, it is one of the highest proof of love towards their partner.
You chose to keep the wounds and the partner who inflicted those, instead of a fast healing, oblivion and a fresh start.
That is not weakness, it is bravery. And love.

I think the empathy must be there since the start for this to happen, it is just buried under the rubble of pain. When the WS digs enough it comes out naturally.

A bit of distressful update for my wife

Apparently her Therapist is trying to ditch her.
And she is scared.
As usual, if just before she had doubts if this therapist was truly good for her, now suddenly became very worthy.

Therapist motivation was "We need to stop because you need some therapy that works with unlocking the body emotions, and I do not do that. You have a massive issue and you need to address it (her words choice 'massive' is what shocked my wife)"

Her take was "She learned about my betrayals. I am a horrible person and she is disgusted with me. So she is trying to get rid of me"

Besides comforting her about that not being the case, I am not sure why she picked that road.
From WS experience any insight of if this makes sense and if so, what to look for exactly?

So I can try to help finding a good one.
Thank you

I see that as her therapist realizes she might have issues that are beyond her skillset. She's doing your WW a favor by acknowledging and admitting that. I don't see it as her being so disgusted she wants nothing to do with her, but convincing your wife of that is the challenge.

I'm not Mr therapist by any stretch of the imagination, so I don't know what to suggest as far as finding the right one, but I'd think someone who's trauma informed and specializes in infidelity might be a good starting point.

Just tell your wife that her issues are more complex than her current therapist is equipped to deal with, and she doesn't want to make a mistake or guide her in a harmful direction. I'd explain that it's the opposite of disgust, but is rooted in caring. She cares about your wife and wants her to get the proper help she needs.

[This message edited by Pogre at 12:06 PM, Friday, January 16th]

In the US a professional who has to terminate their professional relationship with a client/patient for any reason, including lack of qualifications to meet the client’s needs, their ethics require them to refer the client/patient to a more qualified professional. I don’t know if therapists in Poland have similar ethical requirements, but it wouldn’t hurt to ask the therapist for a referral.

I agree with Pogre.

I am going to say some things that could be investigated, but I am not trying to make an assertion or diagnose anything. I have simply been at this a while and I have learned a lot about things that fit me and things that didn’t.

Your wife’s reaction to a professional recommendation is very telling. At one point a therapist that I saw after my husbands affair for a short period introduced me to he concept of rejection sensitivity dysphoria. Due to the reasons I was talking to them I didn’t pursue that very far because I refused to mix the message of my reactions to my husband’s affair were at all unnatural in a normal human being.

I do not think that’s what the therapist was trying to do, but the focus at that point in time just seemed peripheral. I have since reflected and I do suspect this has been an issue for me, but I have long been mindful when I start down these narratives in which people don’t love or like me.

I am not a therapist and I do not know your wife but a lot of it seems to fit me:

"Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria (RSD) describes intense emotional pain from perceived or actual rejection, criticism, or failure, common in people with ADHD or autism, though not a formal diagnosis. Symptoms include extreme sadness, rage, shame, perfectionism, and people-pleasing, often leading to overwhelming emotional reactions disproportionate to the trigger, like a mild disagreement. While not in the DSM, it's a recognized cluster of symptoms related to emotional dysregulation, often managed with therapies like CBT, self-compassion, and addressing underlying ADHD."

You will also notice that ADHD is a common theme in infidelity. I am not saying everyone who cheats has it, or everyone who has it cheats. But there are traits that overlap in an undeniable way. I have not tried to be diagnosed with it, but I suspect strongly I have it. At this stage of life I am not interested in meds for it and that seems to be what happens. I find having more awareness of yourself you can manage most anything by understanding how to accommodate it.

In addition, adding your wife’s history of choosing men who use her…

(that’s been an issue of mine that has been a theme. It’s sort of why I couldn’t believe my husband hadn’t been using me for something he found useful rather than simply loving me, thinking am a good person and partner.)

It makes me wonder if she has SA in her background. There are often themes in which the ws is in some ways is repeating the cycles learned from their SA. The grooming teaches us to be compliant to get the attention and validation, and we get less and less of that as the abuser gains confident in their level of control. As a result that feeling of being discarded starts way before the abuse ends. There are some mirrors of that in my affair. SA survivors are not doing this consciously, but it’s their earliest introductions to sexuality and how it works. I had multiple abusers spanning from the age if 5 far into my teens and had completely normalized it.

None of this excuses my decisions to have an affair as a grown woman who had an adult understanding of all the things I was doing and the boundaries that I purposefully decided to allow to be broken. And they do not excuse your wife either.

However, understanding parallels, patterns, and healing these issues so they do not reoccur, is the reason that I take time to explain them. They may or may not apply, again I am not making assertions but sharing information for her to maybe start to decipher so she can realize none of this should have defined her worth for her and by seeing them objectively one can start accumulating some self compassion.

We don’t have to like what we have done, but framing it as we are bad or broken doesn’t allow for growth. It pigeon holes us as I am just a terrible and there is nothing I can do about it. This is toxic shame. It has to be converted to believe I have made some decisions based on things I was taught and formed around. Now that I understand why I have these inclinations, I can consciously choose new ones. I am redeemable. And when they start walking the walk in a mindful way, you can make peace with who you have been, have a vision for who you want to be, and start liking who you are becoming. It allows you to see yourself holistically, which allows you to start acknowledging your light. The more we can do that the things we do to act out do not look at all appealing, you start nurturing the healthier things that feel better.

I would gather clarification from the therapist. It almost sounds like she wants her to go to something more EMDR based and that may be a good route for her. I did not do that, but I do consider it from time to time. I feel pretty regulated and so I tend to feel like leaving well enough alone.

[This message edited by hikingout at 2:56 PM, Friday, January 16th]

It makes me wonder if she has SA in her background. There are often themes in which the ws is in some ways is repeating the cycles learned from their SA. The grooming teaches us to be compliant to get the attention and validation, and we get less and less of that as the abuser gains confident in their level of control.

As far as I know she never had suffered sexual abuse, she had a messed up family, in the sense that if she was not first and perfect with everything she was worth nothing. Was she qualifying first but not with the top grade? She is worthless.

She only got praises from her parents if she excelled absolutely, and even then, brief, then she should "not be too sticky, emotional, is not proper".

And she is excelling at most things she does, but never ever enjoys a win. It was abuse in my eyes, not sexual but ruined her emotional life deeply anyway.

It pains me to hear you suffered that. I dislike sexual abusers at a skin level, especially women abusers. I dealt with only one true SA in my life, to help a friend. When he was able to walk again he changed city never to be heard again from her.

Believe me, I feel this strongly, I like your spirit and wish you will be able to rip that nightmare off your mind for good.

(that’s been an issue of mine that has been a theme. It’s sort of why I couldn’t believe my husband hadn’t been using me for something he found useful rather than simply loving me, thinking am a good person and partner.)

I loved my Girl with all I got. Heart, body, mind and soul. Her light side, her shadow side, her vulnerability, her wildness. I gave it my all.

So strong in fact, that even now, that's the only thread of the bond that keeps my empathy for her alive.

You Husband may have the same for you. Loving the nice things is easy. Loving the imperfect person, the messy bits is "truth".

In the US a professional who has to terminate their professional relationship with a client/patient for any reason, including lack of qualifications to meet the client’s needs, their ethics require them to refer the client/patient to a more qualified professional. I don’t know if therapists in Poland have similar ethical requirements, but it wouldn’t hurt to ask the therapist for a referral.

Here too, she referred to one, just not all the specialization she said she needs, those are kind of hard to find.

We don’t have to like what we have done, but framing it as we are bad or broken doesn’t allow for growth. It pigeon holes us as I am just a terrible and there is nothing I can do about it. This is toxic shame.

Absolutely, it is what I keep telling her:

"You are not a disgusting person. Shame and self commiseration keep you stuck.

I still believe in the good, wonderful person you are deep down because "I see you". You are not evil, I know your soul, you are trapped inside a prison of your own making, but you do have the key. The horrible things you did to me happened because of your and my trauma, because you felt me as an extension of yourself. You can heal yourself if you acknowledge, not judge, the issues, that will open your cage. And I believe in you, like always"

Then possibly I keep making the mistake of being 'her therapist' but I feel bad seeing her lost. And she seems to feel better when she can open with me.

It's always tricky because she never done this stuff to anybody else, I might be the trigger of self destructive emotions in her and I should figure out a way to let her space to heal.

And ideally I can be with her as a man with a woman, not as a therapist. That's not the role I ever wanted.

It might be an echo from my past suffering but I cannot help to wonder if I am not the cause of her problems and the one preventing her from living a fulfilled life.

I may have to give her some time alone and see if she feels better. We re both young, she can find a man that suit her better and helps her to heal, that route is ok as well.

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 4:11 PM, Friday, January 16th]

Believe me, I feel this strongly, I like your spirit and wish you will be able to rip that nightmare off your mind for good.

It was very normalized for me, none of it was violent and most of them were older boys, none of them were like men that were child predators. I suspect the one that was the most constant was abused by his step dad. I do not have nightmares, and I actually didn’t even think about it until the therapist brought it up a few months into my therapy. It formed some of my patterns but wasn’t front of mind.

Not all female ws have that in their history but it’s so commonly there in the years and years I have talked to other ws that I just know sometimes it’s a factor, so I was throwing spaghetti at the wall so to speak.

You Husband may have the same for you. Loving the nice things is easy. Loving the imperfect person, the messy bits is "truth".

I no longer have issues receiving or recognizing his love. That’s more where I was around the affair time. It didn’t help that when I finally was getting that behind me was exactly when I found out he’d had now been cheating but we are happily reconciled and get on very well together. It’s peaceful and happy in our home.

I no longer have issues receiving or recognizing his love. That’s more where I was around the affair time. It didn’t help that when I finally was getting that behind me was exactly when I found out he’d had now been cheating but we are happily reconciled and get on very well together. It’s peaceful and happy in our home.

This sounds great. It's definitively the good place to be, the goal. Ie nvy it

About BS getting back at a WS:

It is a definitively a terror in my wife's mind that I might end up with another woman. She gets anxious every time I am out or unreachable.
I can't put my finger in "why" she fears it so much (not speaking of the act if that happens obviously) because she never ever worried about it before (she accused me as projection while she was cheating, but she was perfectly cool when I was out, feeling that she can fully trust me). She knows I was always loyal and trustworthy. She also knows I never was into "revenge cheating" I just couldn't, she needed to kill my love for me to start noticing other women again, and she tried very hard to succeed.

I am wondering if the fact I am "detached" matches her patterns back then when she cheated, and that's why she gets alerted. I promised if I meet someone who I feel attracted to, I will inform her (as I did when once happened last November, but she is married so off limits), and I will break up with her before pursuing anything, even dating.

If it sounds cruel I wish she had this courtesy to have done this with me instead of betraying me in the past.
Is a detached BS a red flag for a WS?

I always thought I was disposable for her in the past and she did not really care. Questioning if she started to care or is just a reflection of her past.

I think a detached spouse is a red flag period, lol. Not that I think you're doing anything wrong. Not at all, but I'm sure she's pretty aware of the shift in your demeanor and it probably unsettles her. There could be a touch of "What's he doing? This is how I acted when I cheated" as well. You might not be far off the mark with her possibly projecting.

[This message edited by Pogre at 9:00 PM, Friday, January 16th]

I think a detached spouse is a red flag period, lol. Not that I think you're doing anything wrong. Not at all, but I'm sure she's pretty aware of the shift in your demeanor and it probably unsettles her. There could be a touch of "What's he doing? This is how I acted when I cheated" as well. You might not be far off the mark with her possibly projecting

I told her openly, right after my switch, when we came back home, day 1, she was abusive again, because I was sick so "my heavy breathing was insufferable" as she used to tell when I was in depression.

I laughed it all, and she answered "maybe we should see other people", I laughed, told her "It's an excellent idea" sent her a link to tinder, and encouraged to find her next OM there.

She started to freak out. I told her I am done, do not care anymore.

Now she looks like on limerence. I told her I am not refractory to other women anymore.

Is the last thing in the world I'd ever wanted to happen, I wanted her to be the only one since I saw her for the rest of my life. But it happened, I cannot change that, unless she can.

Being detached with my wife is not a desire, it's an outcome of her choices.

(p.S: I confessed on her once that I was suicidal, because my therapist was alarmed. She did not give a fuck, she dismissed it as "overreaction". This is the first time I see her worried. Hard to think is selfless)

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 10:30 PM, Friday, January 16th]