SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Somehow, I'm missing a search function here, or maybe I just haven't found it? I am sure this topic must have been discussed before but anyway:

What's bothering me is the issue of mutual friends. Since we were both already 50+ when we started our relationship, we each had our own friends. We had a large circle of mutual acquaintances, but no couples who were close to us both. That has changed over the years we've been together — I've invited people over, made new friends, connected people, so that a small community has formed around us.

In our current situation, I observe very different patterns: some of our mutual friends refuse to ever have contact with my WH again because they morally disapprove of his behavior so strongly — even if we were to reconcile. If I want to keep in touch with them, it will definitely be without him.

Others got back in touch with him very early on, but haven't spoken a single word to me since the whole incident for reasons only they now.

And then, fortunately, there are those who respect the ambivalence of the situation, i.e. any decision I may take, and who will openly approach him again.

But it makes me sad to know that, either way, very few friends will remain, especially since we both have very little family. At almost 60, I don't find it easy to start all over again when it comes to friendships. I'm angry with him because he ruined that too.

What experiences have you had and how did you deal with them?

It's an emotionally loaded topic for everyone, people might feel uneasy to touch the topic, they might fear it can happen to them (very likely, no one wants to be the BS one day), they just do not know how to approach it respectfully and are afraid to slip and cause you pain.

Consider as a default is very common for people to think "If it ever happens to me to be the BS I will surely leave the WS and never look back"

Many of use were utterly convinced of that too.
Still we tried to R.

People who were never there might see this as impossible to understand, they may have deeper sympathy for you, perhaps even projecting resentment towards your WS as proxy, and still feeling awkward and avoiding the topic because they are unsure why you R and how to express their concern without hurting or offending you.

Maybe also you do not like bring it up, so it is a topic 'hanging there' but taboo, hence they might find more comfort in just being around you (or him) and avoiding what they perceive as landmines.

I am living a similar situation with a close friend of my WW:

She is also my good friend, she is in her early 40, 3 years in a relationship with a serial cheater, we are losing count on how many times she caught him in the act, they keep splitting then he manipulates her back, sweet at the start, then shifting the blame onto her, then restarting the cycle (which I believe he never stops, he is just a good manipulator).

Nothing to say, she is destroyed going through all the trauma of being the Betrayed Partner.

Ironically, being the good friend of my Wife, she was also present to witness (and 'support') both of her affairs.
I do not resent her for that because she is a woman, she is my wife's (gf back then) friend first, and that's just what friends do.

So she talks with us about her pain and relationship - let's don't linger on the irony that my own WW speaks with outrage how that behavior is unacceptable and she should forever leave him. I agree, but I can't help but laugh at her cognitive dissonance here - she tells how much it hurts and she listens to my advice particularly (because she knows I used to wear her shoes).

And still, even while suffering the heat of it, she avoids and it's reluctant to acknowledge or touch the topic of our betrayal story. Even if we are friends, even if she was there, even if she know everything, she can talk about her betrayal but, her friends (us) betrayal is a taboo topic.

My wife last time we met brought up her own betrayal as an example openly while we were discussing hers. She changed the subject immediately, visibly in discomfort.

I do not feel this barrier to talk openly with her about what she is going through, even when she brings her WP at us for dinner. But she feel her friend's one is taboo.

It's the only example I can bring because is the only one I experience.
There is something psychological at play, it would be interesting to understand what and how to normalize it.

Hi 7m46s,

I totally understand this - having been to IC and Couples therapy I was told early on that even if we choose to R, there is a process of grieving that has to be done. I had initially thought this grieving is limited to my previous relationships, dreams, beleifs etc that they were based on.

A year from dday I am realising it also involves grieving ‘collateral damage’ - for my it’s my sister - who saw my FWH as her own brother like figure and now doesn’t talk to him at all and only ‘tolerates’ his presence in family situations. I’ve had to grieve the loss of this community and also whatever judgement I feel from that.

I agree with backfromthestorms statement ‘Consider as a default is very common for people to think "If it ever happens to me to be the BS I will surely leave the WS and never look back" - this was my default too and many think there disapproval of the betraying partner will force the BS to wake up and smell the coffee.

Life is in the grey bits and some people haven’t seen that yet. Maybe over time these friends will come back into the fold. I’ve had to make peace with time being the healer and letting things flow. I hope you do too

Thanks for sharing your experience, BackfromtheStorm and anxiouslyhopeful.

Consider as a default is very common for people to think "If it ever happens to me to be the BS I will surely leave the WS and never look back"

This is exactly what I am experiencing, always with a kind of subtext of "if he does it again, don't come running again". I also believe that it's a topic that makes people feel uncomfortable because if they really think about it, it leads them to wonder whether it could happen to them too (or perhaps has already happened without them knowing). Hence the avoidance. Many of my friends are very introspective people or even have psychological training. But even they reject it when I point out this connection to them.

In one of her TED Talks Esther Perel says "Staying is the new shame." I think this applies especially to women who — highly qualified and independent in every respect — have "no reason" to stay.

Ironically, being the good friend of my Wife, she was also present to witness (and 'support') both of her affairs.
I do not resent her for that because she is a woman, she is my wife's (gf back then) friend first, and that's just what friends do.

I've thought a lot about how I would behave in the role of the friend. There were at least two people who knew about my WH's affair and both of them remained silent for years. They just said "that is none of our business". I, too, would certainly not be the one to tell the BS that he/she is being cheated on. But I would take a clear stance towards my friend ("I don't agree with this and I expect you to sort this out").

However, my question was more about the behavior of friends during R. I am only beginning to accept that there is something to mourn here too.

However, my question was more about the behavior of friends during R. I am only beginning to accept that there is something to mourn here too.

It;s the only friend who I can think of has a part in understanding her behavior during our R (our first R was based on lies, so this time is my wife initiative putting in the work to prove she is truly wanting to R), because she is going through her own betrayal limbo.

Other friends here in this country (I am an expat), they are all from my Wife's circle, all girls, so there have never been a word about it, besides when 17 years ago when she came back after being dumped by the OM, a single "I am so happy that you 2 worked it out and are together again. I missed you." when I met them the first time after the reunion, tops disclosure I got is a "I really did not like the other guy" then forever silence.

My friends, they were supportive when the breakup happened. They were against me taking her back and warned me I can get better (I had better back then according to them).

Since I did it, not a word anymore.

No hostility towards my wife from them, the topic never comes out.

Exception is my brother (outside the circle of friends but still close). It was him I phoned when I found out the betrayal in 2008, he herd my voice, did not even let me tell what happened, just said "come back home now". When we met we hugged in silence for moments, said nothing.

Since that day, he barely tolerates my wife, he acts proper when we meet, but at the first signal of a discussion his voice get resentful, he never behaves or behave this way with other girlfriends / wives of our family, or with women in general. He did not do that with my wife when she was my girfriend pre-betrayal. I am not sure he even realizes it.

So there is that, it might be similar to your intuition with your sister or friends.

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 4:59 PM, Wednesday, January 14th]

You do have to mourn this. It is your friends’ choice who to be close to, and if they choose to speak with on or the other, or neither, well, that’s up to them. We split, but it was interesting to me what choices people made. Some of my WS’s friends have not spoken to him at all in years, but stayed friends with me. Others of his friends (he only had a few, honestly), have never spoken to me - as if I am the bad one. Some of his family even dropped us BOTH - I get that I am no longer an in-law, but they dropped him too. And a few walk the line and are friends with both of us - including a friend who was a BS in a double betrayal. I was surprised that he is still in touch with my XWS after what he went through. 🤷‍♀️

Some of my own friends dropped me when I became too needy and when I didn’t walk away immediately. Or i learned they were WS in their past and I dropped them.

I miss those relationships, but I can also see now with hindsight that we didn’t align in certain ways, and the A put stress on those points.

Remember that most people have NO IDEA what going through the aftermath of an A is really like. If they have not experienced it, they may think it is like TV and movies, and everyone should follow those (untrue and damaging) scripts. Or they have experienced infidelity and want to get as far away from it as possible because it triggers the hell out of their fragile R.

You will make new friends. And the friendships you have can deepen and become more authentic. The friends that did support me regardless of which way I went, well they are my ride or dies. The A pressure tested it and our friendships thrived afterward.

I am sorry you are going through this. Just one more casualty of infidelity that is unexpected and so unfortunate.

No search function here. A web search engine finds some stuff, but not all. Lack of search helps maintain anonymity.

Have you tried to address the topic with a specific person or two?

I think people are uncomfortable around couples that are struggling with an A but their behavior may be more temporary, avoiding you so they don't feel uncomfortable because they don't know how to act. If they knew your perspective from a conversation it might help.

Imo, anyone who gives it thought and says I am going to abandon this couple trying to reconcile because I abhor interacting with a FWS, well, good riddance. Holier than thou, dismissing you because of him etc. I just don't think most people actively come to that conclusion.

Have you tried to address the topic with a specific person or two?

I think people are uncomfortable around couples that are struggling with an A but their behavior may be more temporary, avoiding you so they don't feel uncomfortable because they don't know how to act. If they knew your perspective from a conversation it might help.

Imo, anyone who gives it thought and says I am going to abandon this couple trying to reconcile because I abhor interacting with a FWS, well, good riddance. Holier than thou, dismissing you because of him etc. I just don't think most people actively come to that conclusion

I too do not think people will abandon you outright for that. However it is a curious behavior as the topic is subconsciously taboo.

As my example, this female friend is comfortable of speaking about her betrayal because she is currently suffering it and we have been her shoulder to cry over.

She know about my wife's betrayal and even when prompted by my wife, she would not touch that subject with a 10 ft pole.

It's peculiar how friends tend to avoid this no matter how close the experience can be to themselves.