SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Apologies if this post is not organized in the slightest. I kind of want to journal, but my journal doesn’t talk back to me, so here I am.

I know everyone says "You can’t possibly know how you’d react to infidelity if it was committed against you," and I’m sure that’s correct… It’s just really, really, really difficult for me to believe that I would have as… turbulent of a reaction as most people do. The idea of my H having sex or a relationship with someone else really doesn’t bother me at all, and I feel like as long as my needs were being met and our QOL together didn’t decrease, or he went starting a new family, or there was danger of him leaving us… Then what’s really the big deal?

I understand people feel differently, and that’s not a choice for them. I’ve seen polyamorous people absolutely torture themselves trying to consciously and rationally"ascend" from jealousy and possessiveness, believing that offering their non-monogamous partner that freedom to engage with others is the ultimate form of love… They just don’t ever seem to get there. It seems like they just shove that pain deep down and never address it until the relationship inevitably ends. Whereas "successfully" poly couples seem not to experience that pain in the first place. Maybe I just fall into that latter category? And H, while not a very strict monogamist, would fall into the former.

I just find myself kind of wishing I could feel that kind of jealousy and pain, even though I know it’s gotta be hell. I feel like I just can’t empathize fully with BH’s feelings, and I want to be able to do that. This is going to sound really, really bad but…If I’m being completely honest, sometimes I catch myself reading posts here, often from people who have been in the R&R process for multiple decades, and wondering if they’re being "dramatic." Logically, I know they’re not. I mean, I’ve been away from my abusive parent for over a decade and I’m still experiencing deep pain from what happened to me, so it follows that someone who experienced infidelity from their loved one might feel that way too… I am just struggling to find the emotional understanding for it. I hear people’s words for what they’re feeling, but the words aren’t producing the same feelings in me, and I just can’t imagine feeling the same way in their shoes.

I worry that might be my and BH’s situation someday. I empathize well enough with him in the moments when he’s obviously triggered presently, and I have zero desire to put a deadline on his healing, by any means. But in 10, 20, 30 years from years from now if he’s triggered, will I internally roll my eyes and think "STILL???" I don’t want that to be the case for either of us. I wonder if it also has anything to do with my complete inability to hold a grudge… But pain is different from holding a grudge, isn’t it? One is feeling hurt, and the other is feeling hurt and angry about it.

I have been struggling a lot with a long depressive episode and obsessive thoughts (most often about chickens— I fckn love my birbies. I built them a whole playground yesterday— but it’s edging into other self-sustainment projects. You know, in case the apocalypse comes… Another manifestation of insecurity, I’m sure.) I feel like I’ve hit a roadblock with the self-love thing, and I’ve reverted to relying on BH for help with feeling loved and desired… But is that really an unreasonable thing to want from your spouse?? He’s doing an outstanding job either way. (If you’re reading this, I love you babydoll. I’m sorry about the previous paragraph. Thanks for being so patient with me; I’m trying to snap out of it.)

I feel like our MC abandoned us. He texted me to ask if we had scheduled for this week, and I said "No, not yet," and all he said was "No worries." I was expecting him to offer some available time slots, but he didn’t. Nor did he when I asked what time slots he had available a day later… Do we have to change MCs again? I hate this. I know I should just be a big girl about it and use my words with him, but it feels so yucky.

I find myself missing boot camp a little bit, which is probably one of the most bizarre things I’ve ever felt. I’m also half hoping this upcoming service period doesn’t get cancelled; I want to be out there with my people, sleeping under the stars and doing good work even though we’re sleep deprived. I guess I miss suffering together with others, having structure, being forced to self-improve whether I feel motivated to or not (staying fit was so easy! Running along the shoreline while the sun rises all around you, laughing inside while your DI’s struggle to keep up with you?? Pure gold! Exhilarating!), and appreciating basic creature comforts after they’ve been taken away… I need to find a way to bring that to my life while I’m being a civilian.

I think different people have different ideas of what constitutes marriage and what they want out of a relationship. Some people are very contractual about marriage, they want status, appearance, money. Others want companionship, to help each other through life, others have a religious viewpoint, others place great meaning on sex and emotional interactions. And there are probably other combinations too. You and your husband apparently fundamentally don't agree on how you view marriage, and therefore how you would view adultery. I call it adultery because that's how we classify it in our society, you might call it another external relationship? or some other phrase. If one of you is really interested in pursuing other relationships and the other is not, that's not going to work out long term. You just are not on the same page about this issue. It's not something debatable, you either are or aren't. If you really don't care if your husband has sex with other people, then...you don't care. I don't understand that myself. But to be happy, you might need to be with someone who thinks like that and he might need someone who values traditional fidelity. Traditional fidelity ensures a lot of things - it puts a seal on the marriage and sexual feelings, it gives an automatic outlet for those into which that and romantic feelings should be poured. Not parceled out to various people. The energy you give to others is energy you don't give to your spouse, IMO. It takes away from the marriage. Also, there is fear of comparisons - am I as attractive, as good in bed, is my equipment as...fulfilling? Inherently it creates opportunities for comparison. It creates potential for secret feelings and emotions you don't share, maybe can't share, maybe aren't even aware of, with another person, not your spouse. This breaks down a marriage. Generally speaking, the more people you invite into any activity, the less special it is especially something as intimate as sex. There's Romeo and Juliet, but not Romeo, Juliet and Steve. I don't hear love songs about Romeo, Juliet and Steve....that doesn't happen. It's not what most people want.

Maybe if your husband were secretly engaged in a relationship with another woman you might understand it better because you might actually experience what it's like for your partner to have secrets, or to spend time and energy and sex with another person, to have to deal with comparisons, to wonder if he might eventually prefer her or decide on her. Infidelity and polygamy open up marriage, which is the basis for building a healthy and stable current and future society, for chaos. In the Bible for example, there are several examples of how badly polygamy worked out for everyone - in general it doesn't. In fact, almost every example IN THE BIBLE of polygamy, which was legal of course, worked out very badly in various ways. It's not a practical basis for healthy happy marriages, it creates too many potential issues and problems, and opportunities for bad feelings. Keep it simple is always the best way through life.

You may genuinely not feel sexual or romantic jealousy but maybe it's just that you haven't really been in a situation that challenged you the way it challenges most of us. I think you just have to accept that this is how your husband feels even if you currently can't understand it, and how most of us feel, and that you have to deal with that reality. Or find someone who has your way of thinking. How much do you really want to share your husband and would you want to be doing it without knowing, with him in secrecy about it? It also makes you question how much you really know this person as a whole who can be so deceitful to you about this one area that can involve a lot of lying, changed behavior, discarding, financial deceit and other things that can arise. Even more than perhaps the sexual infidelity.....deceit and the sense that you can no longer fully trust your spouse is a marriage killer.

I mean, the thing is, I don’t have any interest in other people. I didn’t set out to find a partner with whom to have an affair. Even when it was going on, I wanted the things that the AP was giving me to come from BH… Most of the time I don’t have any issues shutting down solicitation from others, but apparently I have a pattern of accepting the advances from those who make me feel loved and desired when I feel like I’m in danger of being abandoned by BH. Before the A started, I wasn’t completely cognizant that I was feeling that way, and I assumed that I wasn’t capable of committing infidelity…

This allowed me to catch feelings for the AP, go down the slippery slope of rationalizations in order to continue interacting with him, cross the line into affair territory, and then eventually it seemed impossible to stop talking with him. I tried multiple times to quit. I tried to communicate with BH about what it was I needed from him, but he was withdrawing because he sensed I was having an A. That just made me feel more abandoned and afraid to let go of AP in an awful, ugly, mutually reinforcing cycle, until the cat was out of the bag… On D-Day, I was shocked into finally going NC with AP. To me, it was never a contest between AP and BH; BH is all I’ve ever truly wanted.

Essentially, I don’t really need monogamy from BH, but I know he needs at least romantic monogamy (and some restrictions on sexual activity with others) from me, and I’m perfectly okay with that. I don’t actually need or actively desire anyone else. Because of this, I don’t think we are actually misaligned in terms of what marriage means or the kind of fidelity we each require… If it was the case that I fundamentally couldn’t be happy respecting his boundaries, I wouldn’t have committed to him for the rest of my life. But I can be, and so I did… I just need to work out some character defects, trauma, and unhealthy coping mechanisms, is all.

Easy peasy right? 😅

Also: there should never be secrecy or deceit in a marriage, of course. But to me, I don’t feel like our sex or intimacy becomes any less "special" if there’s more people involved. Sure, time and energy are limited resources, but love and sex are basically unlimited. I’m quite certain that sex with other people is never going to be as good as it is with BH, and it just doesn’t seem to bother me when he does it with someone else. And if he loved more than one woman, it wouldn’t necessarily mean that he loves me any less. It’s kind of like when you have another child or adopt a new dog; your love for your previous children/dogs doesn’t diminish, but rather it grows with the addition. Each recipient of love is deserving of it for their own unique reasons…Naturally, it can be tricky to meet multiple partners needs if you have a limited amount of energy time to spend with them, but if that was all in order… why not?

But that’s just my feelings on the matter; it’s okay if others feel differently. It just doesn’t make it so easy to empathize properly, is all.

Edited for clarity

[This message edited by DayByDay96 at 10:56 PM, Thursday, October 9th]

I sense that you have a lot of regrets that you're trying to rationalize. I don't mean that harshly, it's just what I sense.
I think you're actually depicting in your story some of what I was trying to get across....that instead of getting needs fulfilled - or trying to work it out or demand it - you got your needs fulfilled by AP and it put the strain on your marriage. This is what happens in affairs....there actually IS, IMO, limited energies and emotions, just as there is limited everything else in the world - time, money, etc. and when we focus on one thing or person, we inevitably take from something else because we can't be all things to all people all the time. I think you may have some feelings towards any child or any pet....but when you spend special time and energy and meaningful interactions more with one than the other. Children get very jealous if they sense any kind of preferential treatment - or even sharing a loved one, and so do animals. Animals can get very jealous too. It's not even just a human thing. Having more than one ALWAYS sets up competition and we can see this in almost any polygamous relationship including societies that allow this - even if they deny feeling this way, if you observe, you will see it. The origins of it are debatable, there could be different reasons, but it's there.

I think you're concerned that your husband is not getting "over this" as quickly as you think he should, or that as you said originally, he is being "too dramatic" about your affair? I don't think this is something you can ascribe to him, it's kind of like telling a cancer patient.....you big baby, it doesn't hurt that much! How can you know if you haven't experienced it?
I would just accept that this IS the way he feels whether you really understand it or not, and that if this were me, I would work to make him feel as appreciated and secure as possible, and also try to earn back his trust.

People may value (or not value) things we don't understand but that doesn't mean they don't lack central importance in their lives or a relationship. We may think something is ridiculous but if the other person feels it is important, we have to honor that if we want to have a certain relationship with them.

I don't know if this is helpful to you and I don't mean to demean your thinking either, I'm just trying to explain how I, or possibly your husband, might see this.

I’m certainly not claiming to have juggled my marriage and the affair well at all; enough of the normal practices were falling by the wayside for BH to notice a change in me and in our marriage practically immediately. He clocked it right away.

I’m only saying that if he was able to maintain both an extramarital relationship and our marriage, such that I didn’t notice a difference in our QOL together, and I still had all my needs met, then I just don’t think I would have a problem with it ? (Of course, the probability of that happening with his current work/life balance is unlikely, but hypothetically)That’s what’s making it hard for me to empathize.

But does that make any difference, though? If I had been able to juggle both relationships such that he didn’t suspect anything, would he be hurting less right now? Would he feel more cared for and sure of my love for him? Or would he be blindsided, have a greater sense of betrayal, and even less trust in me because it would seem like I’m an even more skilled liar, to be able to maintain appearances so well while leading a double life…? I would ask him what he thinks, but then again, how could anyone know the answer to that?

Maybe I’m trying to compare hypothetical apples to oranges by comparing a duplicitous affair with an out-in-the-open, lopsided ENM situation, but I still just struggle to see it as such a big deal if it were to happen to me… I think back to a time in the relationship where he moved back in with his ex-wife (to be in the home with their two children) while still being in a relationship with me, somehow, without clueing me in at all to that decision, and only realizing that, and that he wasn’t nearly as committed to me as I was to him, when I told him I was unexpectedly pregnant and the look on his face was that of a man who was just told WWIII was starting right there in our town… I don’t think I processed exactly all of that until several years later, but even those terrible feelings still didn’t last more than a couple days. I can’t really come up with any similar experiences at all, as much as I try. I want to understand BH’s pain. I’m not attempting to rationalize my infidelity. There were no rational actions taken during the affair.

Children get very jealous if they sense any kind of preferential treatment - or even sharing a loved one, and so do animals. Animals can get very jealous too. It's not even just a human thing.

Right, but that speaks to the children’s/animal’s feelings about whether they feel loved, important, special, treated fairly, etc., not to how the parent/pet owner feels about them. What I’m trying to get at is IF I still got enough quality time, affection, connection, sex, etc., from BH, and I felt loved/important/special, I just don’t think I would mind sharing him. The thought doesn’t repulse me the way it seems to repulse others. That’s what I’m trying to get at; I can’t summon the same phantom feelings about that piece of the puzzle— about that particular aspect of infidelity trauma in general.

It feels like a huge handicap when trying to reconcile.

I think you're concerned that your husband is not getting "over this" as quickly as you think he should, or that as you said originally, he is being "too dramatic" about your affair?

No; it’s only been (does math…) less than 3 months since D-Day. I expect it will take years to reach a point we would consider fully R&R’ed… I’m a little worried that decades later he will still feel the effects, like some members here, and I’ll have that "Ugh, really? It’s been like, forever!" internal response. Surely that’s got to be the result of a lack of resources to deal with this effectively, and/or repeated instances of infidelity and multiple false starts…? Surely we’ll fare better than that with the proper support and no more infidelity on my part going forward ?

I am not sure I know where to start, but this is troubling to me. I do thank you and actually applaud you for your honesty and being so candid and authentic.

Did your husband know you essentially were of a non-monogamous persuasion before marriage? Have you always been this way?

Do you think breaking promises and lying is not a big deal? Do you think being stolen from is no big deal?

Example, you work hard for and buy a home in nice town. You get a mortgage for say half of the cost. One day you get a notice, the bank no longer backs you and you are evicted, and the bank takes ownership. Next kicker, you get zero equity back...it is now theirs. Do you have any sense of injustice at all?

That is a crude illustration of what an affair does. Except an affair goes so much deeper.

I am assuming you are not of a religious persuasion, but I may be wrong. Let mention however, that marriage was created to be exclusive, and there are very good reasons for it.

May I ask another question. In your minds eye, think of another woman who in her heart desires your husband, wants to fulfill him, and wants to be fulfilled by him. Yet unlike you, she has such a respect and appreciation for him, she wants him all to herself. She does not want to share his affections. Every bit of affection he has, she wants it lavished on her. And every desire he has, she wants to fulfill it by her affections and actions. She wants to go deep with him. She wants to grow with him. She wants she all of life with him.

Does that not move you at all? If not, then I honestly can say I am sad for you and for your husband.

These are just reflections, I mean no ill...I accept you where you are at....but there is a better way, a deeper way. 🙏

[This message edited by WoodThrush2 at 11:44 AM, Friday, October 10th]

I typically would not comment on a thread like this as I have no personal experience with ENM, but I have been battling wicked insomnia and have plenty of time in the middle of the night right now.

At one point in my early exploration into how I could make the choices I did, I went down the rabbit hole of the evolutionary and cultural aspects of ENM. I think my original purpose in this thought process was to justify my actions as being ingrained in my DNA since so many cultures developed with polygamy (specifically polygyny vs polyandry) as a model. More recent DNA studies point to serial monogamy (one partner at a time, but not for life) as a norm and pair bonding with occasional non-monogamy is seen in other mammals (especially bonobos and chimpanzees).

What I quickly realized is that regardless of how we evolved as a species, the cultural aspects of monogamy has been the dominant model (especially in the western societies) since the Roman empire (2000 years) due to the realization that it prevents wealthy elites from using polygyny to consolidate power and wealth so plenty of time for views to evolve.

This will sound hypocritical from a wayward, but I cannot imagine sharing that aspect of my relationship with my wife and for the last 20 years since my infidelity I have a visceral reaction to even the thought of me straying again. That said, studies seem to suggest that ENM / CNM can be successful when both parties are aligned and communicate effectively so I try to acknowledge that my aversion to it is not necessarily "better".

Long way of saying I do not take issue with DaybyDay contemplating it. I think on the heels of infidelity it would be especially tricky and believe her when she says that she is looking to have all her needs filled by her BH.

I can’t help but notice the large age gap between you and your spouse.

Your relationship dynamic is different. Perhaps your needs in your relationship are different. I’m sure there are power dynamics at play, as well. There always are, whether people admit them or not.

He is twice your age, nearing retirement, with a lifetime of experiences and probably an extensive history of relationships.

You’re in a different phase in your life, when stability is not as important.

You chose this age gap relationship for a reason. You chose each other for a reason. Those things likely play into the dynamic after infidelity occurs, as well.

I also see that you commented on a past thread that you’ve been with him for a decade.

So you were 18 and he was 43. Is this correct?

Did the thought occur to you that you were groomed and the affair is you trying to exit a bad situation? And maybe years of trauma from an inappropriate grooming situation is why you think an affair wouldn’t upset you?

So- the reasons I noticed these things… when I was 18, I dated a 50 year old for a year or two. I wouldn’t have been upset if he cheated, either. Because that wasn’t why I was there in the first place. But that took me a lifetime to figure out.

I also broke up with him right before I cheated on him. Didn’t feel much because I didn’t realize he groomed me and I was the victim. It wasn’t non consensual. It never is that’s why it’s called grooming, not rape. They make you think you want to be there. And I did.

But it was just a little bit off for me. (It was really fucking off for me, but I didn’t see that for about 20 more years).

Food for thought. And that might be why your MC are weird, too. Because they worry about that dynamic…..

That’s what I’m trying to get at; I can’t summon the same phantom feelings about that piece of the puzzle— about that particular aspect of infidelity trauma in general.

It feels like a huge handicap when trying to reconcile.

Unless you've been there and done that, it's not possible. Maybe you're right that you would not feel the same as most people do.

I think the same thing is true, though sort of in reverse, for most betrayed spouses trying to contemplate how they'd feel about having an affair. I can’t seem to summon the same phantom feelings that would lead me to betray myself, either.

What's important is trying to understand ourselves as well as we're able. Only then can we start to understand our spouses and what it means to reconcile.

My husband and I did swinging when we were dating. I honestly understand that feeling of not being able to identify with the turbulent feelings of a bs.

Why? Because in my values monogamy wasn’t totally high on the list.

But as I went down the path of figuring out why my boundaries were so not there or whether I wanted my values to change I had to assess where they come from.

The long and short of it was the variety of abuse I lived through growing up - I had normalized it. And in that process had walled up parts of myself that had to be discovered. It’s sort of a matter of going from disassociating, to becoming more aware of who I authentically am. And as I have kind of integrated myself, which has taken years I am more aligned with my heart and soul instead of grabbing on to all these opposing thoughts and being in my head all the time. I found out that my logic and mind were just being used as protective devices as a coping mechanism when I was young. I am still pragmatic, not overly emotional but I have learned to regulate myself to allow emotions to be felt, boundaries to be drawn and replaced self protection with the guiding light of self love.

Theee are good questions to work on because if you are open to the answer it will slowly balance you in those ways.

I would also say that my husband wasn’t someone that I was afraid to lose. I do not feel that way today. Some of that has to do with my perception shift in doing this long and hard work. I started noticing all the things I was grateful for instead of what he was or wasn’t doing. I stopped requiring romance and validation to look a certain way and instead noticed all the things he had been showing me all along.

I don’t know if that helps you or not but that was my experience.

[This message edited by hikingout at 4:58 PM, Friday, October 10th]

WoodThrush2,

Did your husband know you essentially were of a non-monogamous persuasion before marriage? Have you always been this way?

There was a bit of a hiccup in the very beginning of our relationship, around month 3, where we hadn't yet communicated about exclusivity, and it came to BH's attention that I was seeing multiple people beside him when I left my phone in his car, and my text messages from other men started coming in. It hurt him a lot, and I committed to monogamy with him on the spot... It was new for me at that point, as he was pretty much the only man I'd ever met that I was willing to forsake others for, so it took a bit of adjustment. But it was fine for about 4 years, until I slipped up (Again, I was in that place where I felt in danger of being abandoned by BH) and had a one-off sexual encounter with a friend, which I denied and buried in my mind. And then it was another 5-ish years before the affair with AP, this past June-July... I told BH pretty much right away that I didn't care if he had sex with other women provided they were clean, not crazy, not an ex, and every reasonable precaution against STDs and pregnancy were taken.

Do you think breaking promises and lying is not a big deal? Do you think being stolen from is no big deal?

Of course not. I get that part... I just don't think I could hold onto the hurt and anger for years and years, personally. There's only been a few instances in my adult life where I've been angry with anybody for more than a few hours at a time. I just can't relate.

I am assuming you are not of a religious persuasion, but I may be wrong. Let mention however, that marriage was created to be exclusive, and there are very good reasons for it.

There are plenty of benefits to marriage for which romantic and sexual exclusivity isn't a prerequisite.

Yet unlike you, she has such a respect and appreciation for him, she wants him all to herself. She does not want to share his affections. Every bit of affection he has, she wants it lavished on her. And every desire he has, she wants to fulfill it by her affections and actions. She wants to go deep with him. She wants to grow with him. She wants she all of life with him.

Let me be clear, I have enormous respect and appreciation for my husband. That has nothing to do with whether someone needs monogamy from their partner... But, a person like that^ is just not going to be a good match for an ENM situation, is she? One probably ought not to begin relationships with already married people if they want all of their time, attention, love, affection, commitment, ect... I just feel that as long as I was getting enough of those things from BH to feel loved, desired, cared for, secure, myself... Then it wouldn't matter to me if he had a relationship with someone else. I could imagine our daughter being busy with school or some extracurricular or event, and me going off to do my own hobbies for a while or getting caught up on housework, and him spending time with another woman, and that wouldn't bother me at all. Or, all of us spending time together, if we got on well, even. It'd be like having a built-in friend...

but there is a better way, a deeper way. 🙏

As I mentioned before, I don't think the sort of non-requirement of monogamy on my part lessens the quality, specialness, or "depth" of our marriage. It's okay if you feel that way about your own, but I think it's a bit silly to project that onto anyone else's marriage.

3yrsout,

There are "power dynamics" in literally every relationship, not just ones with age gaps. No two people are exactly matched age-, intelligence-, maturity-, finance-, experience- wise, or any other variable you can think up that would introduce inequality... The only time these differences between partners becomes a concern or a legitimate problem is when one partner decides to use their greater power in a malevolent way, instead of in ways that benefit their partner. Generally, most couples enjoy their partners' strengths, which often complement their own weaknesses. Together, they become something greater than what they could be as separate individuals. They support each other, they learn from one another and grow, and life is better for them because of it.

If I were to time travel and meet 44-yo-me, and find that I had decided not a single person from the younger generations had anything they could teach me... I would be very disappointed in my own arrogance.

Grooming is a very serious thing, and the word ought not to be watered down by applying it to consenting relationships between non-vulnerable adults.

This is a touchy subject for me, so that's all I'm going to say on the matter.

My affair was absolutely NOT an exit affair. I struggle with issues with insecure attachment/fear of abandonment, self-love, and feelings of insufficiency, so whenever I felt at risk of being abandoned, undesirable, or unloved by BH, it made me prone to seeking that from someone else. As I mentioned, I wanted what I was getting from AP to come from BH all along. I tried to get them from him. I never once wanted to leave him.

[This message edited by DayByDay96 at 9:00 PM, Friday, October 10th]

Unhinged and hikingout,

Thank you for your thoughtful replies.

I stopped requiring romance and validation to look a certain way and instead noticed all the things he had been showing me all along.

Do you have any suggestions for how to get to this point? I want that.

I am not so sure about your statement.....

"It's okay if you feel that way about your own, but I think it's a bit silly to project that onto anyone else's marriage."

I really think your BH may agree with me that there is a better way than ENM.

Would you consider the possibility that you have desensitized yourself so much since your late teens regarding the sacredness of sex, and hence that is why you are so easily would allow your husband to have sex with others?

You had indicated many relationships with married men, and at the time if I understand your other post properly, you had no real regard for affects that would have on these men's wives or their families. To those women, I would be quite confident that sex with their husband was deemed exclusive and sacred.

It may be from unfortunate experiences you have had in life, that it was taught to you that sex was cheap. I do think you could learn how that is not how it is supposed to be, it is supposed to be special.

Sex was made by God to bond and unite a husband and wife, closer and closer throughout life. It also brings new life into this world...and that is very important to consider.

Would you be OK if while allowing your husband to have sex with another, that he had a baby with them? I mean that is a real possibility with good and successful sex.

So maybe at this point it is true, you just do not have the capacity or volition for all monogamy has to offer. But I still want to tell you, speaking from the side of monogamy, it is a better way. And you know why I am confident in that? It is not just my experience, in fact from a fleshly animalistic vantage point, sleeping around likely makes more sense. But we are not animals. We are humans with a soul. Back to my confidence....

Genesis 2:23-24 KJV

[23] And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. [24] Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

I hope you can get curious. Thank you for dialogue.

[This message edited by WoodThrush2 at 3:00 AM, Saturday, October 11th]

I really think your BH may agree with me that there is a better way than ENM.

That would be really interesting if true, considering his activities and fantasies…

Would you consider the possibility that you have desensitized yourself so much since your late teens regarding the sacredness of sex, and hence that is why you are so easily would allow your husband to have sex with others?

Sex is sex. I like it a lot; I wouldn’t consider it all "cheap." There’s fucking, and there’s making love, and there’s everything in between. Some kinds are easy to get, others are much more rare. I’ve experienced a great deal, and I don’t regret any of it. As I’ve said, sex with my H is incredibly special to me, both because of the quality and the emotional intimacy we share. I don’t see that being taken away or diminished in any way by him having sex with other people. After all, if he’s so good in bed, it would be pretty stingy of me not to share! (That’s a joke. I don’t think anyone is stingy for not wanting to share, of course.)

I have simply never needed monogamy from anybody I’ve dated; it’s not something that I did mind at first that went away over time… I think that some (most) people are just born unable to accept their partners doing that, and others (a tiny few) are born not minding it, and that’s just how they are. You’re reading into it too much, I think.

I did not consider the impact on the wives or the children of the married men I previously had relationships with, because I was selfish. I wanted what I wanted from those men, and that was that. I rationalized that i didn’t owe their families my fidelity, and that if their wives were taking care of them at home, they wouldn’t be seeking extramarital sex and relationships… that a home couldn’t be wrecked by someone who didn’t live in it, but rather that the home was broken to begin with, such that the WHs were stepping outside of it… Very, very, very wrong, dastardly thinking and immoral behavior of course on my part, of course, but it had nothing to do with how I view sex itself.

To those women, I would be quite confident that sex with their husband was deemed exclusive and sacred.

Exclusive, maybe, but probably not "sacred." According to their husbands, many of them did not enjoy sex and only "gave it to" their men after much pestering (see: duty sex), on rare occasions, if they were trying to conceive, as a "reward" for behavior deemed as pleasing to them, as if it were currency… Some of them would withhold it in order to punish their husbands, as well. Sex is not put up on a pedestal as this wonderful, God-given expression of love and ultimate intimacy in every marriage, unfortunately.

Would you be OK if while allowing your husband to have sex with another, that he had a baby with them? I mean that is a real possibility with good and successful sex.

I’m lol’ing at "good and successful sex," in that context, but to answer your question… No, I don’t want him starting families with anyone else. Our existing children deserve his full time and attention; it’s not fair for them to miss out on him because he has to spend time with another family. That’s not something we can justly choose for them, the way I can choose to share him with others… As I mentioned earlier, one of my conditions is that he must take every reasonable precaution against pregnancy in any encounter. He can choose women who have been surgically sterilized, ones that are on hormonal contraceptives, ones that are regular and aren’t close to ovulating… He would need to wear a condom, of course, and he could pull out as well. Or he could stick to sex that isn’t PIV. The more you layer up on contraceptive measures, the more unlikely it becomes that unwanted pregnancy will occur, even if one or more measures fail. The odds can approach zero if you do it correctly.

So maybe at this point it is true, you just do not have the capacity or volition for all monogamy has to offer.

I am capable of being monogamous with BH if that’s what he needs from me. He is all that I want and need. I just have some internal work to do to make sure no infidelity happens in the future, that’s all.

But we are not animals.

We are, actually! Just (sometimes) very intelligent, capable, complex animals. The only other options for taxonomical kingdoms are bacteria, archaea, protista, fungi, or plants, and we’re definitely not any of those! 🤓

We are biological, no doubt. But being made in the image of God, we are unique and have an eternal soul, and therein lies our accountability to Him. Peace.