SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

This is especially difficult because my husband is the only guy I've ever been with, and I'm his 1st love as well. We've been married for 2 decades now and high school sweethearts, and only each other's sexual partner in life. I have 2 D days, the first one didn't even tell half the story, the second came nearly 9 months later when I finally decided to reach out to the AP (more like the limerent object). It was only then my husband came clean. We had been to counseling a couple of months after the first D day but for the entire time he lied about everything!

Let me clarify that this was quite literally all in HIS head. This was someone he worked with and talked to everyday but she only thought of him as a friend. The first D day came when he got suspended from work because of his advances toward her. This was the only reason why I ever found out about this. He initially told me he paid her compliments and that was it and it must of made her uncomfortable. He also said he had only been talking to her for maybe 3 months at most.

It wasn't until 9 months later (just recently) that I discovered that this had been going on for nearly 2 years. My husband was in limerence with this woman. She had no idea for the first 18 months that he was 'in love' with her. He's very good at being secretive. It wasn't until she got a clue by something he said, that he was interested and she started to pull away, as in the conversations between them at work became less frequent. This caused my husband to feel panicked and to start grasping at straws and doing whatever he could to try and reel her back in.

From the beginning he (now admits) he was becoming sexually aroused just thinking about her and that she completely consumed his mind all day, everyday, to the point where he was 'getting off' almost every day, and sometimes multiple times a day when he thought of her. To make matters even worse, he started to use my body unbeknownst to me at the time, where he would imagine it was her during intimacy with me. To the point where when he looks back now he doesn't ever remember me being there. In his head it was her there. He said if she wanted him to move in with her, he would have left me and not thought twice about it. He now tells me that during those two years he was so out of it, always thinking of her that he feels like he lost out on a lot, he doesn't recall any of the family things we would all do together during that time, and he completely neglected all his responsibilities around the home, etc..

During the last 6 months before he got suspended at work, he became a very mean and angry person around the home. To the point where I didn't even know who he was anymore. It was because he started to become stressed over her not giving him the attention he was so use to getting from her. So right before he got suspended, he started to make his intentions very apparent to her which in turn made her extremely uncomfortable. Physically, he tried to kiss her and touch her (in non sexual ways). He said some some very piggish things to her as well, including what he would like to do to her sexually. She ended up leaving the job and reporting him for harassment. After the things I found out he said to her, by all means he should have been fired. He's very fortunate he wasn't.

So now here we are, still in counseling, but with a new counselor and I am trying to figure out if I should stay and give him a 2nd chance or leave? He has not been in contact with her since he was suspended which was about 10 months ago (the suspension lasted about a week and when he returned to work, she was already gone), and he says he is committed to making this work with me, but this is a LOT for me to take in. I feel like if I was better equipped I would leave. I have nowhere to go and he's always been the breadwinner in our home. I'm trapped.

I understand that once that limerence bubble pops you come out of it, almost completely, if not completely. He said once he realized it was her that reported him, that the limerence completely ended. Meaning the daydreaming about her, the sexual thoughts, the using my body to fulfill his dreams of being with her, the feelings of love he had for her. He said it all evaporated into thin air once he realized those feelings would never be reciprocated. He now seems full of hate for her, going on about how SHE ruined his life. I feel like I am constantly having to point out that he caused all his problems and she never asked for him to have feelings for her and she never lead him on.

Truth is, beside the counselor, I have no one to talk to about this. I spent nearly this entire year in tears alone, even before I knew how bad it was. I have no friends or family that I trust to tell. I really struggle with trust and I feel like the people in my life would get some joy in my pain, as awful as that sounds. I would really appreciate any advice, that is why I've decided to come here. My husband is the only person I ever trusted. Now I really don't have anyone that I trust. Thank you for listening. If for no other reason, it felt good to type this all out.

I think it's also important to note that through all this he not once thought about me, or how it would effect me. In fact he said he didn't even know that what he was doing was wrong until things hit the roof and he almost lost his job. It never crossed his mind that he was betraying me and our marriage. Its very difficult for me to wrap that around my head and to try and understand.

I'm so sorry that you have to deal with this. What a disturbing situation. Don't let anyone convince you this wasn't real cheating because it was all in his head. This is a betrayal on every level.

What I find really disturbing is that in this fantasy world of his, you simply didn't exist as a person in his mind. You were just something that kept his household running smoothly. There is nothing worse than feeling invisible to someone you genuinely love. It seems to me that he still doesn't really see you. He's describing all the emotions, frustrations and hurt he's been feeling about another woman for two years as thought he is talking to some inanimate object. He's probably relieved that he can finally talk about it, with no thought to the fact that each revelation is like a knife to your heart. He just expects you to be there to listen and comfort him in his rejection crisis.

I think you should stop being his backstop. Look at what made him finally lose his infatuation with her. She repeatedly rejected his advances but he never actually got it until she reported him. She forced him to be accountable for his actions. You should do the same, because you never signed up to be his therapist or a physical stand in for the woman he really wanted. I encourage you to think long and hard about what you need from him to stay, and then demand it. File for divorce if you have to. You don't have to go through with it if he starts actually seeing you as a person again. Start thing more about yourself and way less about him.

I can understand why you feel trapped, but every day people escape from situations they never imagined they could. It's a matter of figuring out what you need to survive and then putting a plan in place to get there, one small step at a time.

Welcome to SI and so sorry about your situation. First, I want to point out some of the resources. There are some posts pinned to the top of the forum that we encourage new members to read. There are some other great posts that aren't pinned, but you can find them by looking for the bull's eye icon. The Healing Library is at the top of the site and has a lot of great resources.

If you can, IC (individual counseling) with a betrayal trauma specialist may be good for you. Your WH (wayward husband) will need his own IC to work on becoming a safe partner. After you've had a chance to heal and wish to continue in the M (marriage), then you might consider MC (marriage counseling). Your M didn't cheat - your WH did.

I would encourage you to read what you've posted here but pretend like this is something that your BFF or daughter was telling you. How would you respond?

His behavior is scary. He doesn't appear to acknowledge that anybody exists as a person outside of him and his wants. He didn't care that his behavior was so outrageous that another person reported him to HR, he got suspended and she left the workplace.

So sorry that you're here.

I can feel your desperation coming off the page. As your husband currently exists, not having the least empathy for how you feel, I don’t see how you can stay married to him. Was he always that dense? It’s like he doesn’t even have enough sense to fake relating to your feelings. I notice that for two years he also couldn’t read how the woman he was pursuing felt about him. Did he suffer a blow to the head or a serious illness? Does he abuse drugs or alcohol? In any event, something is very wrong with him. I read where you have seen counselors, but it appears they are marriage counselors. Your husband needs his own psychotherapist. There’s an old saying about the difference between neurosis and psychosis: neurotics build castles in the air but psychotics move in. Your husband signed a lease and hired the moving van. He’s got a lot of unpacking to do before he can be a safe partner for you.

You are justifiably worried about finances and the feasibility of living without him. It is scary contemplating these changes after twenty years. I hate that you have no friends or family who you can trust to share this with. Are you sure about that? Is there a clergyman who you can speak to in confidence? Is there an aunt, uncle, cousin that might be a helper? You met and married young so I am guessing that you are around 40 years old. If you live an average lifespan, that means you have close to half your life left. Fear takes root in the dark. Get educated about your options and how your life would look if you divorce. Call an attorney. Usually, the first session is free, but ask about charges when you call.

When I face something I don’t relish doing I tend to put it off. I remind myself that every trip starts with a single footstep and make myself do one thing that gets me going in the right direction. In your case, google family law attorneys in your area. Next step, make a call or two or three. Find out your rights. You may choose to reconcile, but you need to know what the alternative looks like.

Keep posting here. Until you can find a live confidante, this group will give you all the support that you need and deserve.

Yeah I'm calling BS on him saying he didn't know what he was doing was wrong until she reported him. That is laughable. He is not a six-year-old, he's an adult and he knew full well what he was doing was wrong but like all cheaters he was selfish and self-centered and thought only of himself

As others have said, skip the MC for now, stick with IC and once you feel like you are in a good place emotionally physically spiritually Etc then consider MC if you want to try and repair the relationship

It seems like all cheaters look for ways to minimize their responsibility and deflect blame onto others. Him saying she ruined his life by reporting him is just a pathetic excuse. He ruined his life by his actions.

I suggest finding an IC you can build trust with. You may go through several before you find one that you feel good about but once you find him or her it will help you immensely.

I'm so sorry you are going through this and please know that you will always get support from this board even if we disagree with each other or maybe we say something stupid or impractical, we all do care.

What amazes me here is the extent to which he would go to try to get in a relationship with her....whether this was just a sexual thing or an actual relationship with her that he wanted, his behavior is extreme and kind of classically stalkerish. In a "normal" attempt to have an affair a guy might try to get in with a woman, compliment her, try to get time alone with her, maybe see if he can touch her, or get her to make off color jokes - these are all testing behaviors. Your husband sounds like he went way overboard to something I might consider an actual mental illness. He was so extreme he drove HER out of her job and almost lost his. He might have also faced legal charges with some women. This does not sound like just affair seeking behavior but something he does not seem to be able to control. What if he meets another woman that brings out these feeling in him. I think he needs real psychiatric treatment and not just relationship counseling. Someone else here might be able to give more info than I can about that but his thinking sounds basically abnormal and unhealthy.

I'M ASKING THE OTHER POSTERS HERE - WHAT KIND OF COUNSELING DO YOU THINK HE NEEDS? WHAT WOULD YOU RECOMMEND?

As for what you should do, I don't like the position you're in because you are so isolated. It makes it hard for you to find support, but also harder to judge his behavior. What he did was very abnormal. As bad as affairs are, they usually don't seem this delusional from the start. 2 goals I would like to see for you are attempts to have more social contacts for yourself, alone, not as a couple, and make friends. I think you need at least more social contacts to start feeling normal about yourself and connected and also to help assess his behavior. If you had more social supports, you'd not only have more practical avenues of support, but you'd also have people who could help you assess what's going on with him in an informal way. I think part of your problem is that you're trapped with him and you need more outlets, even just to be able to see him and your situation more clearly. Perhaps it's been TOO MUCH just the two of you - not just for you but for him, and maybe this is part of him breaking out from that or reacting against it in some way. I don't know. But you both need more social outlets ESPECIALLY YOU. So even going to a church, some group, a hobby or class you might share - anything where you can at least get to meet others, probably will help you to feel more normal and supported.

Also, I don't know if you're working, but if you're not.....if you can get some kind of job it would be good. I'd like to see you become more independent financially, if you're not already. So that is something I think you could work towards and it would enable you to have more options.

Also, if you are ever afraid of him, do you know where to go? Family members - a friend? There are also women's shelters, as bad as that might sound, they have helped many women. I want you to have more options.

So to sum up....I think he needs real serious psychological counseling and I think you need more options. Hopefully others here will have more practical or supportive advice. Hang in there and keep posting. Everything in life is temporary and this too shall pass....we just want it to pass in the best possible way for you.

One other thing that occurs to me is that he is still wrapped up emotionally in this woman but instead of being enamored of her, he "hates" her now for things that were not her fault - this was totally his fault and he does not take any responsibility for it. His thinking is really off. So he's still wrapped up in this but in a different way - and it's like he's not seeing you as a separate person. I don't know how he sees you at this point, maybe as Mom, but it's really unhealthy. Maybe YOU should talk to a psychiatrist about this to see what kind of help he would need but I wonder if this is beyond the levels of normal counseling.

Does he have any physical problems? Anything like diabetes? Does he drink or use drugs that you know of? Has he been acting or speaking abnormally otherwise? Anything that gives you pause? Or made you wonder? Has he changed in other ways maybe over a couple of years? He may be having psych problems because of a physical problem too, I've seen this in my family. Sometimes if the physical problem is addressed, the mental problem diminishes or goes away. I'd have a thorough check up for him, including possibly early dementia. That's somewhat unlikely but I like to cover all bases.

I'm going to put it bluntly and simply: your husband isn't in a state of "limerence"; he has very deep-seeded emotional and psychological problems and should be under the care of a psychiatrist. The fact that he can't remember having sex with you and actually deluded himself into thinking that he was having sex with his co-worker is indicative of severe mental illness. He was actively pursuing and harassing his female co-worker to the point that he was suspended from work and she was forced to get a new job just to get away from him.

He now seems full of hate for her, going on about how SHE ruined his life. I feel like I am constantly having to point out that he caused all his problems and she never asked for him to have feelings for her and she never lead him on.

The opposite of love isn't hate; it's indifference. The fact that he hates her now and sees her as the source of all ill in his life shows that he's still obsessed with her. In fact, his behavior has been escalating over the course of 2 years and may progress to something like worse (like stalking or violence) if he doesn't get help now.

You don't need marriage counseling; in fact, I think going to marriage counseling is actually harmful for you because it implies that there is something wrong in the marriage and that your problems can be worked on together as a couple and fixed.

Instead, you need an individual counselor for yourself. You need someone whose focus is going to be on helping you with your trauma and your well-being, not on what's good for your husband or good for your marriage.

If you want to consider reconciliation, then him receiving psychiatric help should be a requirement. But I'm not really confident that would even be helpful if he doesn't acknowledge that there's anything wrong with him.

If he doesn't recognize that he has a problem and doesn't take steps on his own to fix it, then you should consult with a lawyer and get the divorce process started. However, you will need to do it carefully and discreetly, perhaps with the advice and guidance of an IC who specializes in domestic violence. That might sound really extreme to you, but you're husband is not a safe partner or a safe person; you need to protect yourself accordingly.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 8:03 PM, Tuesday, October 7th]

You are married to a stalker. He scared her enough to make her leave her job. Even adults get crushes but this was way beyond limerence.

Has he been diagnosed as on the spectrum by any chance? He never picked up a single clue.

Has he been diagnosed as on the spectrum by any chance? He never picked up a single clue.

In defense of people on the autism spectrum, they might have trouble interpreting social cues or putting themselves in another person's shoes, but they're not crazy or psychopathic. 99% of the time, if you point out behavior of that's making you upset or uncomfortable, they feel terrible about it and will stop, even if they don't entirely understand it.

This was not a case of a guy "just not getting it." He's either completely delusional... or the type of person who wants what he wants and doesn't much care whether the object of his desire consents.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 8:08 PM, Tuesday, October 7th]

He was actively pursuing and harassing his female co-worker to the point that he was suspended from work and she was forced to get a new job just to get away from him.

Pay close attention to this ^^^^^

I have a feeling his employer suspended him giving her time to leave without incident. I had a serious stalker, who was someone I had dated and refused to accept that it was over. My boss would buzz my office to tell me not to leave for lunch because my stalker was waiting for me in the parking lot. It is a serious situation if an employer does that.

I also agree he's not over this, as evidenced by the fact that he hates her. The obsession is still there.

Perhaps you can call a domestic abuse organization and talk to someone about this situation. They often have resources for mental health help. They might be able to coach you on how to handle this. I worry that if you insist he get psychiatric help, he'll turn that hatred and anger on you.

This was not to disparage people on the spectrum. Stalkers come in all shapes and sizes but the info was how long he tried and was never encouraged is what made me ask. Every person I know who has autism is a sweetheart. The clue issue was what I wondered about.

What you are describing is not limerance. What you are describing is a pile of shit who doesn’t want to take personal accountability for his decisions.

I appreciate all the advice. I had to leave without him knowing because every time I try to go for a walk or anything he follows me. He is paranoid and convinced that I am now seeing someone behind his back. It's all paranoia due to his own actions, so now he thinks the same thing will happen in reverse. We had a disagreement and he brought his parents into it by calling them. Something we agreed we wouldn't do. He did it in secret and didn't know I could hear everything he was saying. Just another betrayal from him. It just never stops. So I left (at least for the night). Took the credit cards and called an uber (because I don't drive, which I know is awful) and had the uber driver drop me off at a hotel. I took his phone with me as well and my phone and my laptop. It's just now he is harassing our daughter, who is a teenager, because he wants her phone. She told him she is locked out of it because he kept trying to figure out her password but didn't know what it was. She's been keeping in contact with me through text. I feel so alone and confused.

Basically he is trying to come off as the 'good guy' to his parents by making it look like I'm the cheater by saying I'm seeing someone behind his back when that couldn't be furthest from the truth.

[This message edited by TwistedandConfused at 12:14 AM, Wednesday, October 8th]

Oh, sister. Surely you can see how disturbing and not in any way normal this is.

I know you want to keep the life that you had, but many of us can tell you that that life, sadly, is already gone. He destroyed it without your knowledge or consent.

The sooner that you can accept that he is genuinely unhinged and not the person that you thought you knew, the better you can begin to protect yourself and your daughter.

You didn’t want this, but sometimes, we don’t get to choose anything that we would have wanted. It is truly horrific the damage that they do to us.

Please protect yourself and your kids. It’s good that you are out of the house. Tell his parents what’s going on—all of it. Tell them that you have to protect yourself and your children.

He may very likely have a full breakdown. Do you want to have to take care of the person who has destroyed your universe? Seek all the professional and personal help available to you.

Sending you hugs of strength and support.

So far you don’t appear to have much to work with.

If he’s blaming you then he’s not remorseful — he’s covering his butt to try and look like he’s not guilty.

How sad.

You deserve better.

I'm also going to be blunt. What you describe isn't limerence, it isn't infidelity - he sexually harassed the co-worker and possibly physically assaulted her (unwelcome workplace touching and kissing without consent could be considered assault - depends upon the situation). I'm no therapist , but IMO his behaviors point to possible personality instability/disorders and he sounds like (at minimum) a VERY controlling and possibly emotionally abusive individual. Whatever his issues, you can't fix him. Only he can fix himself, hopefully with the support of a competent psychologist or psychiatrist. What's going on here may be above the expertise level of a typical Marriage Counselor, so don't put great faith in couples counseling to address underlying issues. Your marriage isn't the problem - HE is the problem. I agree with others that foregoing MC for now is highly recommended. Huge red flag - he lied in MC to protect himself - he lied to your in-laws - he's comfortable with lying if it suits his goals.

Whatever is going on with him, he is NOT a safe person for you or your kids.So, rather than trying to untangle him (is it physical, is it mental, what kind of counseling would help him), let's put the focus on you - on keeping you and kids safe. Suggest you do the same. You may be tempted to "help" him or to "save" the marriage. Again, you can't fix him. Only he can fix himself. He has to WANT to change for himself, not just to placate you. The ball is in his court when it comes to getting help - and sticking to it long term. Could take a long time to see significant, measurable change! A hard truth - if certain personality disorders are present meaningful change may not be a realistic goal.

Back to you: Some of your statements and life circumstances are ringing my internal alarm bells. There's some indicators of "coercive control" behaviors that may be found in emotionally abusive relationships. Hope I'm reading too much into your posts, but the spidie senses are tingling..... so let's go there....hope this helps.......Basically, coercive control is a pattern of coercive or manipulative behaviors within a relationship. It's recognized as a form of abuse. Here's a few examples of coercive control cut and pasted from a women's DV website - some of these behaviors are present in your marriage:

- Isolating you from your support system. An abusive partner will cut you off from friends and family, or limit your contact with them so you don’t receive the support you need.

- Monitoring your activity throughout the day.

- Denying you freedom and autonomy. A person exerting coercive control may try to limit your freedom and independence. For example, not allowing you to go to work or school, restricting your access to transportation, stalking your every move when you’re out, taking your phone and changing passwords, etc.

- Limiting access to money and controlling finances. This is a way of restricting your freedom and ability to leave the relationship. Financial abuse is a specific form of abuse but, within the context of coercive control, financial control is a tactic to keep a person disempowered, by utilizing strategies such as:

placing you on a strict budget that barely covers the essentials such as food or clothes

limiting your access to bank accounts

hiding financial resources from you

preventing you from having a credit card

rigorously monitoring what you spend.

- Making jealous accusations about the time you spend with family or friends, either in person or online, as a way of phasing out all your contact with the external world, except for them.

TwistedandConfused, abuse is not just physical violence. Abuse can also be psychological, covert and subtle. He may never have hit you, but it's possible the subtle type of abuse, such as coercive control, may have ratcheted up over time and even felt normal because you grew used to it - like the proverbial frog slowly boiled in the proverbial pot of water. He is your ONLY relationship, so you never experienced a relationship learning curve with other guys to help identify his escalating controlling behavior as concerning, and possibly abusive - it felt normal because it's what you know. Plus you're isolated - there's no friends or family to witness your reality, to help you see things for what they are.

Isolation is a huge concern. You are so isolated! You need all the support you can get right now.This statement is concerning, makes me worried for your safety - it has the hallmarks of DV coercive control "I have no friends or family that I trust to tell. I really struggle with trust and I feel like the people in my life would get some joy in my pain, as awful as that sounds...........My husband is the only person I ever trusted. Now I really don't have anyone that I trust." Dear TwistedandConfused, why do you feel this way? Some guesses = Over the years, did he gradually instill this distrust of friends and family? Did he alienate friends and family, therefore they aren't to be trusted? Are you worried about "I told you so" responses because friends and family warned you about him or dislike him? Are you SURE there aren't any select friends and family you can reach out to for support? Please, please, please don't continue to isolate yourself to protect his image or because YOU feel shame or embarrassment about the situation. People may surprise you - they may want to help you gain clarity, or help you leave the present unsafe situation.

In addition to reaching out to some friends and family, please rally a support team of professionals around you and kids to help stay strong while struggling with this nightmare.Individual Counseling (IC) just for you could be a huge help. Reach out to your doctor for help, and for STD testing (liars lie, better safe than sorry), and don't be embarrassed to discuss temporary meds for sleep, anxiety or depression if needed. Could school counselors help your kids? These professionals have heard it all, so don't hesitate or be afraid to ask for help. Please also consult with a lawyer ON THE LOW DOWN - don't tell him you're dong this. Lawyers sometimes offer a free consult - take advantage of this and consult with a few. Knowledge is power, and understanding what your options are could help gain some equilibrium. What does separation vs. divorce look like in your legal jurisdiction? What are your legal rights in the marriage? Doesn't mean you have to separate right this minute but understanding rights could help to protect yourself and the kids.

If you do recognize coercive control and emotional abuse - or even suspect it's happening in the marriage, calling the National DV hotline 1.800.799.SAFE and using them as a sounding board could help. Maybe the National DV hotline can recommend a local DV organization to link up with? A therapist for you? Support group and pro bono legal aide, etc.? They could also help map out an escape plan if needed. I believe you when you say "I feel like if I was better equipped I'd leave........I'm trapped" so the next step is to make an escape plan.....friends, family, professional support from doctor, counselors, lawyer could all be helpful resources towards formulating that plan.

ETA:

Per the last item on the coercive control behaviors list above, just maybe not letting you out of his sight isn't really about fears that YOU are having an affair, maybe it's about controlling you - keeping you isolated. HIs jealousy feels like plausible cover he's using to watch your every move, to be sure you can't reach out to other people for help, or to make sure you aren't even discussing him with others to get their feedback on the situation. Just a thought. Be alert, be proactive, be strong. You can do this. Stay safe.....hoping the best for you.

[This message edited by BoundaryBuilder at 4:33 AM, Saturday, October 11th]