SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Team, I wanted to continue a discussion about how much you should disclose to your adult kids about your WS's actions. We had hijacked someone's post in JFO, so I thought it would be better to continue the discussion here in general.

I'm of opinion that it is better to disclose more rather than less if the decision has been made to divorce.

You are not only divorcing your WS, you are also breaking up the family. Kids will want to know why you cannot "forgive your WS". After all, everyone makes mistakes. Surely you were not perfect either / your actions drove her to this. Or the kicker, "if you loved us (the kids), you would make more of an effort to forgive.

I think its important to let your kids know what happened. You spend a lifetime telling them that "family is family, and we forgive family". You need to emphasize why it is different in this case.

On a personal note, I wish my dad (which took the high road) would have told me more of the details earlier. I was mad at him for a long time because I felt that he didn't do enough to work through the marital problems. The stuff I found out decades later made me reevaluate the whole situation. I wish I would have not wasted those years hating my Dad.

To address some particular points other users have made:

understand your trying to say that people 18 and over are adults, but we are not talking about adults. My children, when they are adults, fully grown, will always be my children.
Just because someone is old enough to experience the truth of what has happened does not mean that I, as a parent, should help them to experience it.

As a senior military officer that has led 18 year olds into combat, I think it is belittling to say that showing them evidence will irreversibly harm your children's psychological development. If this is the worst thing they ever see / experience, I would call them lucky.

Mindracing..did you show your kids pics and texts?

No, because we are all in on reconciliation. But if I decide to call it quits, I will let my kids know why. Age appropriate of course, but I will have an in-depth discussion with my 18 and 19 year olds.

"See James, look at what your mother was doing. Yes i know you know she cheated on me. Yes, you know she had sex with him. Yes you know I am a victim, but you need to see some of the things she said to him. Now doesnt that just make you feel better? Dont you feel like she is such a horrible person. Maybe you can spend the rest of your life not trusting the person you choose to be with. Good talk son. Now go join the military and vote because youre an adult and can clearly handle the trauma that I just gave to you. I love you and remember your mom is a waste of human flesh. Go get'em tiger!"

I don't think this is what I'm saying at all. It's more like, "see James, I know I said that marriage is forever. I know I said you need to cherish family and be forgiving. But I need to do this because the betrayal is just too deep. I know that infidelity is trivialized in popular media. It wasn't a one-time mistake. The actions cannot be forgiven. I am not doing this to hurt you. I am doing this to show you that there comes a point...and this is it....where you no longer need to suffer the abuse.

Anyway, this forum is filled with stories about how the kids keep begging...BEGGING...for the BS to forgive and get back together. That must tear at the heart of the BS. I know it tore at my Dad's heart. I feel that if the BS was completely honest, the kids would understand.

There is no age appropriate way to tell children (from 2 to 80) what their parent (who they love) was saying and doing to/with other people except to say mom/dad cheated and lied to me multiple times. That is why I don't trust him/her, and that is why I can't be with him/her.

BS often talk about the mind movies they have, about racing thoughts that they can't get rid of. There is no reason to inflict that kind of pain on your kids.

You say it's belittling them to think they shouldn't be shown sexual, graphic sexts sent by their mother to another man. Because those are the texts you were encouraging a new member to show his stepdaughters.

I shared that the ow sent my just turned 18 year old daughter screenshots of the messages sent between her, and my husband. It traumatized her. She had to go to therapy. It affects her ability to love and trust. Her pain was very real.

My daughter is a mature,well educated woman of 30 now. She's been teaching since she graduated college. She isn't weak. She is human.

You believe sexts should be shown to the children of the ws, in order for the bh to control the narrative. Which will not make a difference, because that ws can very easily say they did it because the bh was neglecting them,etc.

No child, adult or otherwise, ever needs to read sexts sent by their parent.

Imo..all kids should be given age appropriate honesty about what happened. The bs doesn't need to prove the ws parent said this,or that. Showing them graphic details is more about trying to prove their other parent is a POS, and trying to get the kids on the side of the bs. It's putting them in a position that uses them to try and hurt the ws.

Kids never need to read sexts from their mother, stating how much they love fucking another man. Or any man for that matter.

OP, you shared your experience, and how painful it was. I've countered that with my experience, being that my 18 year old daughter was shown that kind of crap. I know how it hurt her. You can say what you wish you had seen..but I know what it did to my kid.

It's like, most people say they would leave if cheated on. Then,when it happens, they react differently than they thought they would. You may have been traumatized by seeing graphic messages sent by your mother. You don't truly know,because it didn't happen. It did happen to my child.

I don’t believe in secrets. I think it’s very important to be open and honest with ADULT children about an affair. They don’t need to know specifics or details but they should know of an affair and why there is conflict in their parents marriage. I believe a WS has to earn trust back not only with their BS but also their children.

In the long run I don’t think it’s healthy for anyone involved by keeping it a secret. For the WS, for the BS and for the children.

I came from a family where nothing bad was shared with the children. We lived our lives through rose coloured glasses and were protected from anything negative.. my life growing up felt like a Disney movie… unrealistic. And I don’t think that helped me in my marriage..

If we want our adult children to be honest with us about their lives and the hard stuff we have to give them the same courtesy.

If you reconcile it demonstrates perseverance, it shows compassion, strength, forgiveness, love. And if you separate it explains a marital problem that couldn’t be solved. Also demonstrating strength, resilience, self love…

Just my thoughts on the subject. I know not everyone has this same feeling.

I count myself as a person who was somewhat messed up by my parents divorce, which followed an affair, and after failed reconciliation Dad married the by then also divorced affair partner. Mum sunk into depression and alcoholism. My Dad tried to do the Brady bunch thing.

It basically felt like I turned 10 and my world fell apart. Except I put on a brave face and just went around friends houses and grandmothers houses to feel okay. I wasn’t home much for until I was 17 and moved out.

I got the basics, as in Dad had cheated and who with, and we were moving. I think I got most of those from my older sister. She sees the whole thing differently from me. She pretty much hates my mother, because having lost everything, and just trying to get through it, my damaged mother made that impossibly painful and difficult for us kids. My mother was just an open wound for decades, and my sister attributes that more to character than me, to traits which pre-existed my Dad’s affair. Whereas my Dad would at least pick up the phone if you called and act like a normal person, albeit a bit grandiose and selfish at times.

The details I learned from my Mum during drunken rants.

Like how when my dog got hit by a car and got her leg pinned, that was because AP came into our home and fucked my Dad (his colleagues’s wife and family friend) in the marital bed and then left the gate open on the way out. So my dog escaped and got hit by a car.

Or when we sold our beloved beach house to fund the divorce. My Dad would send us ahead acting like the self sacrificing doctor, but it was to free up time to have his affair. So my mother felt the whole experience of designing and building the place was just a dirty trick. Whereas for me it was where I could take my friends and where we bonded like brothers, but which fell out from under me, leaving me and my siblings with nothing much at all.

As the BP now, my priority is to not spread the damage like my Mum did, to end the cycle in this generation if I can. I am not sharing details with my kids, but might if I think it will be useful to them when they are older.

But, if I did not know the details, of my Dad’s affair with a person who my Mum regarded as a friend (whilst looking down on her a bit), I think I would be worse off. The whole divorce and remarriage would have just seemed uncanny, whitewashed, like a movie set, not quite right. I am glad, for the love I genuinely bore my father until his passing, I can feel ‘fuck you’ rather than ‘people deserve to be happy’, and that when he asked me if he had been a good father when he was dying, I was able to tell him I loved him, but no, he hadn’t.

I don’t advocate for a sharing of sexual details with the kids, but I advocate a full reckoning of the betrayals, and I firmly believe that in an affair, the kids are amongst the betrayed.

Does your ww know that if reconciliation doesn’t work that you will show your kids what she did?
Is she okay with that?
If she is not then you aren’t really working on reconciliation. What you have is a hostage.
You said that you lead kids that would end up fighting in battle. Do you need to shoot them beforehand so that they know what can happen? Do you think your children will thank you for destroying their view of their mother?
I have no evidence of my FWS affair but I would sooner gouge my eyes out and cut off my own tongue then subject them to it.
If your kids are old enough and smart enough then the details aren’t needed. You can tell your kids that their mother said and did things that would embarrass her and shame her. They don’t need to read how hot their mother was for another man. It would be like walking into your parents bedroom and catching them having sex. The image will always be there. You can be old enough to know that adults have sex and that sometimes it’s pretty weird sex but nothing prepares you when it’s in your face.
I don’t understand your logic of doing this outside of punishing your spouse in the worst way.
Kids, regardless of age, need a relationship with their parents. To purposefully damage that is on the same level as having an affair except you are intending to hurt your spouse and kids.

You say it's belittling them to think they shouldn't be shown sexual, graphic sexts sent by their mother to another man. Because those are the texts you were encouraging a new member to show his stepdaughters.

Hellfire, I did nothing of the sort. I said he should show his wife redacted texts, but he should explicitly show the portions of a text that showed the WS was thinking of the AP during their anniversary.

I think showing the level of betrayal is important so that the kids understand why you're not willing to forgive a family member.

This thread wasn't started because people were telling op that kids should be kept in the dark.

He was telling a new op to show graphic,sexual sexts sent by the WW,to the OM,to their children. Children that are still in high school, because the possibility of him paying for their college,is being discussed with between the op, and his ww.

No one said the kids shouldn't be told the truth. But the ww sent very graphic, sexual messages,and mindracing believes the op of that thread should show those messages to the kids.

What you have is a hostage.
You said that you lead kids that would end up fighting in battle. Do you need to shoot them beforehand so that they know what can happen? Do you think your children will thank you for destroying their view of their mother?

1. I think we should stop calling 18 yr olds kids. They are young adults with all the rights (except drinking and gambling in the U. S.) afforded to you and I.

2. We don't shoot them beforehand, but we try to ensure that combat is not the most stressful thing they experience.

3. I wouldn't be destroying their world view of their mother. She did that by her actions. I have no responsibility for her getting judged for the things she did. But I have a responsibility for ensuring that my kids understand why so that they don't hate me. Like I wish my dad did.

D

.This thread wasn't started ecause people were telling op that kids should be kept in the dark.

He was telling a new op to show graphic,sexual sexts sent by the WW,to the OM,to their children. Children that are still in high school, because the possibility of him paying for their college,is being discussed with between the op, and his ww.

No one said the kids shouldn't be told the truth. But the ww sent very graphic, sexual messages,and mindracing believes the op of that thread should show those messages to the kids.

Hellfire, point out one time where I said to do that. But there are multiple times where I said not to share graphic sexts or pics. I think you have me confused with someone else.

In follow-up to my previous post after reading other comments… I would definitely not encourage anyone to share details or specifics of an affair with their adult children. Those are what haunt me as a BS… and I don’t believe that is appropriate to share.

But explaining why there is conflict and general hardship in a marriage to adult children because of an affair I think is healthy.

No one is denying that age appropriate truth be told to the kids or adults. The only thing most people have a problem is sharing the explicit details, which is unnecessary, immature and vindictive. Kids or adults of any age group need not know what fires up their parents sexually . JustCrushed seems mature enough to not resort to these immature tactics.

JustCrushed seems mature enough to not resort to these immature tactics.

I would like this thread talk more abut the theoretical rather than on JC's specific issue. I see enough conversation about this in a lot of forums, and I believe a frank discussion would be beneficial for the group.

I think what the original comment was, was to suggest giving the college aged kids the private investigator report (including criminal rap sheet of AP) and one text WW sent to AP on her anniversary with OP.

Myself, I would consider doing that, if In OP’s position, I regarded my stepchildren as my children and intended to maintain a close relationship with them, including paying for a chunk of their college education, although divorcing their Mum.

I know some comment extrapolated on from that, but when I read the above point, I thought, maybe.

[This message edited by straightup at 11:07 PM, Monday, March 25th]

Cross posted.

Just want to remind people of the guidlines to stay on topic and not refer to other threads outside of their original location.

ON TOPIC: Respect the original posters' intent and avoid threadjacking. Feel free to start new topics to discuss general subject matter in other threads, but do not refer to specific topics or threads outside of their original location.

My experience: I was 19 and away at school in my second year of University when my dad unexpectedly informed us all that he was leaving my mother and moving out. My younger sibling and I (senior in high school) were informed that he had been unhappy for a long time, and life was too short to stay in an unhappy marriage. We were told he would be living alone. 6-8 months later, my sibling inadvertently discovered (via coming across his car parked in a strange location) that my dad was in fact, living with another woman. I was never sure how much my mom knew or suspected, but she either took the "high road" (as you viewed it) or kept my father's secret for him, until it all blew up.

When my dad originally left, I was upset, of course, but no part of me felt entitled to know the particular details of exactly what was going on. I knew my mother was upset and blindsided, but I mostly took what my parents said about why at face. I had never really observed my parents marriage to be particularly happy - not horrendous or abusive or anything - just not in what I grew up thinking being "in love" would look like. He didn't seem to have a lot of respect for her, and she seemed to have a lot of resentment for him (as it turns out, because he had been cheating on her for years, so that explains that!). Based on what I'd observed about the marriage- I didn't ever resent either of them for not trying harder to fix things. I never begged for them to try to get back together - in my mind, that is what little kids (who worry more about how things effect them, than about the wellbeing of their parents) might do.

When I found out the truth however, I was mad at BOTH my parents for lying to me. I felt like I was old enough to know the truth and to not be treated with kid gloves. So yeah, I think that the truth is important - obviously in an age appropriate way. I'm not sure why the particulars would be necessary however. My anger for my mother for not treating me like an adult was clearly overshadowed with my anger for my father who was clearly living a lie. Seeing text messages or photos as proof, was absolutely not necessary for me to get to anger. In fact, they would have been horrific and unnecessary. I do remember my dad trying to justify his actions to me based on his perception of a dead bedroom** and my mother feeling the need to assure me she had in fact done her very best to ensure that the bedroom was not dead , and if I could excise those details from my brain, I assure you I would. I promise you, no 19 year old, wants or needs to know the details of their parents' sex lives.

Mindracing - it's not clear to me how old you were or whether you were told the truth about your mother's A at the outset. It sounds a bit like you weren't or that if you were, your mother convinced you that whatever she did should have been forgivable and you held this against your father. You say you don't think explicit details are necessary, but that more are necessary. What more are you advocating for?

I think it is belittling to say that showing them evidence will irreversibly harm your children's psychological development. If this is the worst thing they ever see / experience, I would call them lucky.

The pre-frontal cortex of the brain does not reach maturity until well into a person's 20s - some estimates suggest mid-late 20s. So yes, while they are legally an adult, their brain has not stopped developing. I think your parents' divorce is going to impact you psychologically no matter when it occurs. Most kids grow up respecting and identifying with one or both parents to some degree. Learning that that person is "BAD" is going to call to question a lot about what you thought you knew about yourself and your childhood. I don't see why any parent, no matter what the kids age, should be lackadaisical about their kids' mental health. Just because some people have experienced worse, doesn't mean that it is easy or that they are lucky. I think when giving details, a parent should consider what the purpose of providing that information is. If the kid is legitimately struggling to make sense of something or is making incorrect assumptions based on the limited information provided, particular details might be appropriate, but if the goal is simply to convince the child that the other parent is the one at fault, I'm certainly more skeptical. Having a healthy relationship with both their parents, is generally in a kid's interest, whether that kid is over or under the age of majority.

** To be honest, hearing my father attempt to justify his infidelity on this absolutely did damage to me. Can you imagine as a young woman- yes legally an adult, but still a kid in many ways, and certainly naive about how grown-up relationships worked - being informed by your father that, in his mind, a woman that didn't "put out" deserved to be cheated on and abandoned? That is absolutely something I internalized.

I checked. The kids in that thread are 19. So I was mistaken about them being in high school.

I stand by everything else I've said in this thread,and that thread.

We have members who's children discovered their father's affair,by find the messages and pics,by accident. I wonder if any of those BS will chime in,and say they are glad the kids saw it.

I’m glad I have details because my father was a clever, accomplished, urbane and charming man, and if I had not known details, I would have believed that. I would have probably felt dim by comparison.

Instead, I felt that if I could do something well, and be more than usually honest whilst going about it, I would be enough.

That includes imaging details like my Dad bringing his future wife into my mother’s bed. He was that guy then, and in some ways, despite a shifting of deck chairs on the titanic, he remained that guy.

I think what we say here about no rug sweeping, letting the sunlight in by exposure, and not controlling the result, applies generally, not only to infidelity. Some care and nuance might be required in the delivery. I’m not advocating a star chamber or house of un-American activities, but I personally strive for that.

[This message edited by straightup at 12:14 AM, Tuesday, March 26th]

I do remember my dad trying to justify his actions to me based on his perception of a dead bedroom** and my mother feeling the need to assure me she had in fact done her very best to ensure that the bedroom was not dead

Ugh, barf. But that's not what I'm advocating. Ugh, barf again...

Mindracing - it's not clear to me how old you were or whether you were told the truth about your mother's A at the outset. It sounds a bit like you weren't or that if you were, your mother convinced you that whatever she did should have been forgivable and you held this against your father. You say you don't think explicit details are necessary, but that more are necessary. What more are you advocating for?

To be clear, my parents didn't divorce due to infidelity. My parents split when I was 11 due to a lot of different transgressions that wore down my father. At the time I was just told that moms and dads sometimes stop loving each other. And that they had hurt each other's feelings. I was completely my dad's son. I begged my dad to come home. I didn't understand because saying "I do" meant forever. And I kept asking him to forgive mom, like he always made me forgive my sister when we fought. Especially since mom said she would forgive him.

This made me hate my father and we didn't have a relationship again for almost 15 years. I wish I would have known earlier. Things make so much more sense now. And would have made more sense then. He took the high road and let everyone label him a villain. I am saddened by all the lost years. And at no point did my dad being the bad guy make me question my self worth. But him leaving without an explanation sure did.

I'm advocating telling the extent of the affair. Things like the length of the affair. The lies that were told to hide the affair. Whether the affair was an EA or PA...without going into the gory details. And especially any of the WS own words (via text, email, VAR, or confession) that showed the WS's mindset. It shouldn't be a BS said / WS said. That's hearsay. Show the proof.

I'm advocating telling the extent of the affair. Things like the length of the affair. The lies that were told to hide the affair. Whether the affair was an EA or PA...without going into the gory details.

Yes to all of this.

any of the WS own words (via text, email, VAR, or confession

You said no "gory details."

Var, messages, texts,etc..those are gory details.

I understand your pov. I do. What happened with your dad was awful. He should have told you the truth. Instead, he lied. He allowed you to think something that wasn't true. Had he told you the truth..would you have believed him? After all, you adored your dad. Would you have needed..or wanted..to see proof of her "many transgressions?" Wouldn't your dad telling you why he left, have been enough?

[This message edited by HellFire at 1:43 AM, Tuesday, March 26th]