SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Please see my original post for my story. I never knew about this site until recently. My DDay was in 2007 before we married in 2010. I never thought of asking my WW to write down a full account of everything that happened. 16 years later I have dealt with some triggering days where it destroys me all over again even though she has been nothing but an amazing and faithful wife since being married. I found myself reliving everything and bringing up likely the same scenarios and questions that I never or forgot the answers to (down to specific details). We've had multiple uncomfortable conversations about the A recently where it almost triggered her to asking me why all of a sudden am I bringing it up. She's even asked me if I've been talking to other women at work about our personal business (I have not). Part of me laughed inside thinking well now you know how it feels to feel paranoid.

Getting to the point, I have found what has helped me is that I started writing down all the fact that I do remember about the A and started also writing down questions that I would like answered (physical details, feelings during the A, etc). I was going to send this document to my WW and ask her to answer all the questions (even though she has always said due to her recently diagnosed Lupus that can remember every detail from something that happened 16 years ago). For those of you currently in R, do you think this is a good idea to request her relive the situation and answer all my questions even though it will cause both of us hurt all over again. Prior to my recent triggers, our relationship was great with 1 kids almost done with college and the other one on their way to H.S. We were so busy acting as a family unit to even think about anything else. Let me know what you guys/gals think.

NeverForget,

What is it you believe your WW is still witholding, lied about or minimized that you never got to resolve?

The more truth the better, so write it down and give it to her.

How complete a story do you have?

Did you confront the OM or get his testimony?

Survus,

"What is it you believe your WW is still witholding, lied about or minimized that you never got to resolve?"
At the time of discovery, I was so shocked and angry I didn't really go into requesting every sexual detail of the affair and how it made her feel etc. I guess being triggered just activated all my questions that I have wondered as time went on like did she ever think about the other guy while having sex with me during affair and after. What I am contemplating is, is it worth the pain to know answers to questions that shouldn't matter since its been so long in R. I am 100% sure she has remained faithful once we got married.

"The more truth the better, so write it down and give it to her."
I might just give it to her but not a day that is going so well or before upcoming celebrations because I really dont want to ruin everything.

"How complete a story do you have?"
I would say I have 95% complete. The only details that I'm probably focusing on are very physical sexual details only because she is my one and only and the constant comparison that goes through my head can be sometimes overbearing. It can really bring down my self confidence. So I always wonder if there are days she ever thinks that while yes I might have been the more logical/comfortable/stable man, that the OM was the most attractive, best sex in her life.

"Did you confront the OM or get his testimony?"
No I did not want to engage in any of that since it already had ended by the time I found out and my wife was shooting him down constantly when he would try to restart things before I found out. Him and his pregnant gf ended up moving away a couple months after DDay.

For those who have written testimonies and in R, do you find yourself re-reading all the details years later if you get triggered and have those questions come back and you need to remind yourself of the answers?

Are these triggers a new thing, or have they been happening all along? If they're new, what do you think is going on? Where is this coming from?

I'm 19 years out and was in a similar situation earlier this year. My H had been acting out by overspending and spending too much time at the bar at the veteran's org he runs. Combine that with his first company party in several years - where I knew I'd encounter the AP, and I was back in the infidelity muck again. We started IC and resumed MC and we're back on track.

But what's going on with you?

It's alright to need to still talk about the A, but I think you should do it face-to-face and not by giving her a list of questions. Go ahead and make the list if you need to so that you can remember what you want to ask, but ask her in person. And tell her that you may have more questions later. Keep the door open. Also tell her how you're feeling and why you're asking. Lay it all out there. Be transparent.

For those who have written testimonies and in R, do you find yourself re-reading all the details years later if you get triggered and have those questions come back and you need to remind yourself of the answers?

I didn't ask my H to write anything down, but I kept journals. I screenshotted everything. I made notes. It was my way of undoing the mindfuck of gaslighting. BUT, that trove of stuff that I had saved wasn't serving me after many years, and was actually hurting me and keeping me stuck. I did a lot of rereading and pain-shopping. I got a weird little thrill out of reading it over and over again. So I sucked up my courage and I deleted all of it.

Be mindful of why you need to save all of this info after all of this time. What's that about?

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 5:11 PM, Tuesday, October 10th]

I've got a written timeline I can access, but I don't remember the last time I accessed it. (I started addressing the A directly on d-day, though, with no delay.)

I think it is likely to be healing for both of you to ask your questions, as long as you realize your WS may have genuinely forgotten the answers after 16 years.

My reading of your post is that you plan to write down your questions and give the list to your W. Do you expect answers in writing?

If you do, my reco is to talk to your W about discussing your questions in a conversation. Doing the Q & A in conversation may or may not get better results than doing it in writing; by working with your W to figure out what is the best way to handle your questions, you may be able to figure out the best way for the 2 of you to get your Qs answered.

I say this because I think the answer(s) to any one question may generate more questions, and you can address those new questions in conversation, and you can't if your W is working from a list and writing down her answers. Conversation allows back and forth in real time; writing does not.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:07 PM, Tuesday, October 10th]

Are these triggers a new thing, or have they been happening all along? If they're new, what do you think is going on? Where is this coming from?

These trigger are new. Honestly what I think is happening is that I have always held positions at companies that required 60 work weeks. Last year I accepted a position at a new company that for the first time I am working a lot less which means I have had a lot more time to think about anything and everything. In my opinion it seems like I always kept my mind occupied off the affair by keeping myself super busy with work (almost obsessive/addicted).

But what's going on with you?

Things that trigger me are things like movies and/or shows that really dramatize infidelity (those definitely get me worked up, I can't enjoy watching those). Those types of show bring out the side comments such as, "is that how you felt" etc. This has led to me recognizing song lyrics from the time of affair and think to myself, this must have been one of their songs they liked.

BUT, that trove of stuff that I had saved wasn't serving me after many years, and was actually hurting me and keeping me stuck. I did a lot of rereading and pain-shopping. I got a weird little thrill out of reading it over and over again. So I sucked up my courage and I deleted all of it.

For me, I know I love my wife and I would never want anyone else. As I told her, I don't think she knows how much it hurts to have to relive this type of thing. The thing I want most is to never have to feel it again. Her response is that she understands and says sorry multiple times but she cannot change what has already happened. I've had face to face conversations with her in the last week to confirm the details that I have remembered and they are all the same. After the talk I felt relieved but in the back of mind is that nagging feeling to just keep asking questions that I know probably aren't going to help me or her. If anything it will cause her paranoia that I talking to the divorced coworker of mine that I told my wife constantly decides to overshare her information with me. That paired with me starting to work out for myself due to my recent blood tests, aging, and self confidence issues due to the recent triggering is probably making my W wonder if I am doing something behind her back.

Be mindful of why you need to save all of this info after all of this time. What's that about?

I dont think it is in best interest to save the information I am gathering as I know it will probably just end up hurting. I am contemplating deleting stuff and also trying to find a different job to keep me busy and my mind off of investigating old events.

My reading of your post is that you plan to write down your questions and give the list to your W. Do you expect answers in writing?

Yes that was thought.

I say this because I think the answer(s) to any one question may generate more questions, and you can address those new questions in conversation, and you can't if your W is working from a list and writing down her answers. Conversation allows back and forth in real time; writing does not.

I definitely understand the benefit. The last time we talked about it weeks ago, I tried to remain calm while asking very intimate details and answers like "Do you just want me to tell you what you want to here" is not something I want as a result. My wife and I have been together since we were 15 so she knows that I will likely not do well with some of the answers she will give. She also probably doesn't to see me just get stuck in a depression 16 years later when to her she thought all of this was behind her. I can agree with some of those statements she is making such as what purpose does it even serve if I already had made choice to marry her after I found out about the A. Yes i probably should have spent more time asking questions between DDay and marriage. I guess you could call what we did as rug-sweeping that is now creeping itself back out into our lives 16 years later because now I am actually trying to process what happened since I'm no longer pre-occupied 7 days a week with work.

What scares me is that 1 of our children is almost done with college and the other almost entering high school. I always thought that in the relationship I was always the one who was more into my partner than the kids where she was more about the kids than our relationship. Once the kids are all gone, what will our lives be like? Will she get bored at home since she is a SAHM and then fall back into old habits? I sure hope not but I guess time will tell.

answers like "Do you just want me to tell you what you want to hear"

Oof. Never say that again, Mrs. NF. That's not cool. Do you trust her to tell you the truth?

It sounds like you shoved all of this off to the side while you were busy for all those years. Now that things are slowing down, the issues are like HEY YOU. YOU READY TO DEAL WITH ME NOW?

The thing I want most is to never have to feel it again.

I'm sorry to tell you this, but that's unlikely. It's like the death of a loved one, only this was the death of a dream. You move on and you heal, but you never fully get over the loss.

Are you in IC, or have you considered it?

Are you in IC, or have you considered it?

I am not. When we I was first triggered this year when I posted my original post I resorted to evening drinks before bed which have since calmed down since we were able to talk through what I was feeling and why. She did mention that maybe it would be a good idea I talk to someone instead of trying to deal with it by drinking etc. This made me think things like why am I the only one still thinking about this? Yes it makes her sad to see me depressed and angry over something she has done but it just seems like she is unaffected by it. She always said that her and her mom are like emotional rocks where they rarely will show sadness/cry in front of people even thought they feel terrible inside. I would feel better if I at least some sort of remorseful emotions rather than words like 'of course I regret it' or 'I can't change the past'.

With all of that said, is it really even worth to keep focusing on this one part of my life even if I have accepted that it happened, what happened, it cannot change, and we have moved forward. I am just trying to find a way to get out of this cycle of reliving this horrible time in our lives.

Sacred, I read about your situation. Did having your own EA make you feel better about your R especially since it may have given you validation or wanted again from someone other than your H?

NeverForget, I understand your concerns around explicit details, but I am wondering if you tried to imagine different possible outcomes of that questions and what is the chance that anything good for you comes out of it? When I'm trying to imagine myself in that situation, most answers would be either unbelivable or devastating.
Maybe something like "well, he was smarter, funnier, better looking and had more friends, but could not smash it like you" would be somewhat plausible lol.
I'm not a therapist, but there are probably better was to handle your insecurities, including her reassurig you without compering you to some POS.
Another thing that caught my eye is that you both seem to neglect your merrige and that alone can be very harmful. I'm talking about emotional, intelectual and physical intimacy, that is not just sex and doesn't have to include sex at all (probably should ofc).

What scares me is that 1 of our children is almost done with college and the other almost entering high school. I always thought that in the relationship I was always the one who was more into my partner than the kids where she was more about the kids than our relationship. Once the kids are all gone, what will our lives be like?

This is a great question to think about together at your stage of life, a truly helpful one.

I am wondering if you tried to imagine different possible outcomes of that questions and what is the chance that anything good for you comes out of it? When I'm trying to imagine myself in that situation, most answers would be either unbelivable or devastating.
Maybe something like "well, he was smarter, funnier, better looking and had more friends, but could not smash it like you" would be somewhat plausible lol.

I am definitely going with devastating. Although the latter would be much easier digest, I know 100% sure I am smarter and funnier. This dude was the complete opposite of me (especially since he was involved in some sort of street gang, definitely a downgrade in my opinion, not even sure why my W even thought that was attractive. Apparently she thought it was some sort of stupid gang they made up but clearly wasnt when I looked it up myself). I know I am the better person, it's just so shocking that my W would accept someone so polar opposite of me. It would probably be easier to understand if this OM was more successful, had more money, or 10 times more attractive, but he was just a low life POS. That is what causes me to question what was going on in her mind that she was attracted to that. I have asked her this multiple times and the only answer is it was nice to feel wanted by someone else. We both met at 15 and grew up Catholic so I thought her morals were more solid that to cheat on me with another man whose gf was 6-7 months pregnant. I asked her during DDay and again during our conversations, What kind of woman has the heart to fuck a pregnant woman's SO and posed the question what if that was you and I. Her response was well it wasn't.

I'm not a therapist, but there are probably better was to handle your insecurities, including her reassurig you without compering you to some POS.

She doesnt really want to compare the two us. If anything she is asking why do I need/want such information. She thinks she is protecting me or anticipating that this type of information likely will not help our ongoing R.

Sacred, I read about your situation. Did having your own EA make you feel better about your R especially since it may have given you validation or wanted again from someone other than your H?

My EA consisted of nothing but titillating talk. My AP was just trying to get in someone's/anyone's pants, which I knew in real time. He didn't want me, he wanted a warm hole to distract him from his wife leaving him. I wouldn't take it to the next level, so he immediately moved on to another married neighbor and had a full-blown PA. It was humbling how quickly I shifted from being the one he wanted to hang out with to the third wheel with him and the other neighbor. So, no, there was no validation about feeling desirable or wanted because of the EA. I actually felt the most attractive after DDay, when I started working on my codependency and felt super take-no-shit powerful. I developed a little strut in my walk. lol

This made me think things like why am I the only one still thinking about this?

I think that's pretty normal. I remember places and dates and emotional responses and all sorts of details. My H doesn't. It's shameful for him to remember; he dealt with it and then discarded it as best he could, which is probably the healthiest thing he could do. We're the ones who have to reconcile the story that we told ourselves about who our WS was and what they were doing when they were lying to us during the A, with who they became during/after the A and what was actually going on. It's a real mindf*ck. We have to untangle the gaslighting from the truth. We have to learn to trust our intuition again, and that takes time.

I know I am the better person, it's just so shocking that my W would accept someone so polar opposite of me. It would probably be easier to understand if this OM was more successful, had more money, or 10 times more attractive, but he was just a low life POS. That is what causes me to question what was going on in her mind that she was attracted to that.

There's a thread somewhere in JFO forum that's titled "Honey, They Always Affair Down." And really, they always, always do (unless the AP was unaware that the WS was married.) Anyone who would knowingly sleep with someone in a committed relationship is a step down from a faithful partner; I don't care how good looking they are or how good in bed, they're being shitty humans.

Your W said herself that it was nice to feel wanted. See? It was all about HER, not him. He could have been anyone.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 4:51 PM, Wednesday, October 11th]

but he was just a low life POS. That is what causes me to question what was going on in her mind that she was attracted to that. I have asked her this multiple times and the only answer is it was nice to feel wanted by someone else

His strength was that he was the POS next door and the attractiveness was fueld by her vanity and low morals.

Anyone who would knowingly sleep with someone in a committed relationship is a step down from a faithful partner; I don't care how good looking they are or how good in bed, they're being shitty humans

Now that sounds like a borderline insult to the main prize here. But I hope she's at least pretty.

Neverforget, do you think that you are showing respect to yourself? Spending your nights wondering how these two respectable mammals were coping together 16y ago? Overworking yourself, because you cannot enjoy free time? I guess it is much easier said then done, but not caring about them would be the most sexy thing you could do.

Another mind experiment. If I thought I was missing something in bed, would I try to step up?

Gladly for anyone but a cheater.

Asking yourself questions about what will happen when the kids are out is a very good move, many people miss that and are caught in an existential crisis.

I wish you that in time you can become more of your own person.

[This message edited by Potentialforevil at 8:58 PM, Wednesday, October 11th]

She doesnt really want to compare the two us. If anything she is asking why do I need/want such information. She thinks she is protecting me or anticipating that this type of information likely will not help our ongoing R.

While not specific this thought process does tell you something for sure. If the comparison was in your favor in any ways important to you then she would have gladly disclosed this information long ago as it would have stroked your ego and likely made you feel more secure.

If she needs to protect you from the truth, then the truth is not gonna be good. I'd be shocked at this point if you would get it out of her. She might be of the mindset that the statute of limitations has run out at this point. I think the most you'll get is a tepid watered-down version where the hurtful information is minimized as much as she feels she can get away with it. 16 years always allows here to reasonably draw on plausible deniability via not remembering.

Your time to have insisted on anything you needed to move forward was then. You guys rug swept and you are paying the price now.

She doesnt really want to compare the two us. If anything she is asking why do I need/want such information. She thinks she is protecting me or anticipating that this type of information likely will not help our ongoing R.

While not specific this thought process does tell you something for sure. If the comparison was in your favor in any ways important to you then she would have gladly disclosed this information long ago as it would have stroked your ego and likely made you feel more secure.

If she needs to protect you from the truth, then the truth is not gonna be good. I'd be shocked at this point if you would get it out of her. She might be of the mindset that the statute of limitations has run out at this point. I think the most you'll get is a tepid watered-down version where the hurtful information is minimized as much as she feels she can get away with it. 16 years always allows here to reasonably draw on plausible deniability via not remembering.

Your time to have insisted on anything you needed to move forward was then. You guys rug swept and you are paying the price now.

While not specific this thought process does tell you something for sure. If the comparison was in your favor in any ways important to you then she would have gladly disclosed this information long ago as it would have stroked your ego and likely made you feel more secure.

I definitely understand this logic. I just want her to actually say it rather than beat around the bush. I'm sure its hard to say something you know will hurt your SO.

If she needs to protect you from the truth, then the truth is not gonna be good. I'd be shocked at this point if you would get it out of her. She might be of the mindset that the statute of limitations has run out at this point. I think the most you'll get is a tepid watered-down version where the hurtful information is minimized as much as she feels she can get away with it. 16 years always allows here to reasonably draw on plausible deniability via not remembering.

Part of me knows that she will try and water it down; but for some reason I feel somewhat relieved to see how upset and uncomfortable she feels when I bring it up during triggers because at least I know I'm not the only one hurting. Am I messed up to feel that way?

at least I know I'm not the only one hurting. Am I messed up to feel that way?

You are not wrong to feel this way. It’s an unfortunate consequence of rug-sweeping all those years ago. You both need to understand for proper healing you need to do the work correctly this time, guided by both IC (for both of you) and MC using therapists well versed in infidelity and trauma.

NeverForgot,

I would suggest you write down a list of every question you want answered, and have her write out her answers that way she doesn't have to face you, and you can write in follow on questions to her answers. Perhaps in a notebook leaving ample room for her responses.

She's avoiding the questions because she knows the answers some of which are painful, but so is living in limbo. People have very long memories for things they are trying to hide.

As a next step you might take her for a polygraph after she answers the questions.

I sense that your WW never had to pay much of a price for her affair, that's how I feel about OM1, that my WW got to experience a wonderful exciting experience and that neither WW or OM1 paid for it yet.

Did you feel that your sex life with your WW was reduced in quality, quantity or passion after her affair?

You might also contact OM and get his side of the story, or if he is with the same woman expose him if he refuses to talk.

I can also relate to your becoming a workaholic after your WW affair, I buried myself in work after OM1 as I felt the best I could do for my WW was to make money and love her until she loved me back. I've been waiting 35 years.

What I suspect about OM1 in my case is that she had anal and more than one orgasm per session with him.

I would suggest you write down a list of every question you want answered, and have her write out her answers that way she doesn't have to face you, and you can write in follow on questions to her answers. Perhaps in a notebook leaving ample room for her responses.

That is the plan. I am just waiting for a time where I will not be dampening the mood i.e college kid we haven't seen in a couple months is home for fall break etc.

She's avoiding the questions because she knows the answers some of which are painful, but so is living in limbo. People have very long memories for things they are trying to hide.

I assume this is why plus in her mind she doesn't understand why I am constantly reliving these things if they cause soo much pain. It seems as if she was able to move on and forget about it much easier than me.

I sense that your WW never had to pay much of a price for her affair, that's how I feel about OM1, that my WW got to experience a wonderful exciting experience and that neither WW or OM1 paid for it yet.

That's one of my question since the A seemed to have ended before I even found out, why she never told the OW. Unfortunately they moved way soon after I found out. I did however find the OM on social media years ago and it seems as if him and his pregnant gf are now married.

Did you feel that your sex life with your WW was reduced in quality, quantity or passion after her affair?

During the initial R sometime in 2008-2010, its almost as if my now W was using sex to lure me back. She was constantly wanting sex, sending me nudes, making videos for me. Ever since we got married in 2010 and had our second child, all of that came to a screeching halt. Life became more focused on the child as it usually does. With a newborn and a teenager, life and work kept me busy, never really thinking about the A.

You might also contact OM and get his side of the story, or if he is with the same woman expose him if he refuses to talk.

At this point in time 16 years later, I dont want to give him the satisfaction that is still affects me. According to my W story, she is the one that decided to stop and he kept on insisting and getting denied. I do however keep checking if he was arrested etc.

I can also relate to your becoming a workaholic after your WW affair, I buried myself in work after OM1 as I felt the best I could do for my WW was to make money and love her until she loved me back. I've been waiting 35 years.

In hindsight, during that time I was working so much, I never really realized the reason I was working so much. It was only until I accepted this recent job and I have time to think about life, that I have looked back and said damn, maybe that was my coping mechanism or way of running away from the issue.

What I suspect about OM1 in my case is that she had anal and more than one orgasm per session with him.

That is one of my questions is that if she ever did things with the OM that she has denied me. Situations where my W would say no stop and being the respectful SO, you stop but in the OM case, he may have just disregarded the No and did it anyway until she realized it felt good.

I am hoping to give her my questions in the next week or so.

BTW just mentioning a polygraph will sometimes get them to cough up the details they are hiding.

You can also claim that you spoke with OM and he told you everything, if you mention of list of things she never or refused to do with you it's likely she will flat out deny some, possibly truthfully, but admit to others for damage control. Her calculation will be that 2 or 3 out of 10 or 20 aint bad.

If OM is married to that woman be sure to let her know the truth she deserves to know.

Did you get DNA and STD testing and does your WW have keepsakes still from her experience.