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Been awhile since Ive posted but felt like sharing where I'm at right now.

My 16 year reconciliation journey has gone from bad to good to bad again when all the usual experiences tend to show reconciliation as a process that happens once and it either succeeds or doesn't. Ive heard timeframes for reconciling ranging from 6 months to 4 years, with 2 being about the average, but anything over maybe 5 years being considered in the territory of its probably better to just D of you haven't gotten over it. This puts me well past the high water mark for reconciliation but with an asterisk considering roughly 14 years of those past 16 years Id say have been "OK" and bearable.

Back in 2005 my WW had a 6 month long full blown EA/PA with a coworker whom she thought she was going to leave me for but then found out he wasn't the guy she had made him out to be. I was somehow able to put it behind me and work on the issues in our marriage that had contributed to her feeling like I "didn't like her". Our marriage has been everything I hoped it would be sans her infidelity which she views as a huge mistake. The pain from her A never left me and never will, but for the most part it had faded and wasn't something I thought about very much or when I did think about it, I didn't feel a need to bring it up with her.

Last November, I experienced a strong trigger event which prompted me to want to talk about and explore her A some more and this has unexpectedly caused me to get into a pattern of rumination leading to resentment and second guessing my decision to reconcile after all these years. In addition it seems to have caused my brain to be rewired so that I am thinking about the A again quite often and there are more triggers now than there were before. There are these two conflicting parts of me that feel differently about reconciling at this time. One side is focused on the hurtful details of her A, is unable to forgive the betrayal, and wants to separate to see how it would feel to date someone that hasn't ever cheated on me (she was also my first GF). This side also says F the kids and my WW's feelings because the breaking of her vows and the level of deceit was so bad that it cuts down to the spiritual level for me and its simply unacceptable. The other side thinks this idea would be an absolute tragedy for everyone involved, is nonsense, scary, and thinks the opposing side of me is an a-hole for changing course after so many years when there are now kids involved and years have been taken off my WWs life which could have been spent with someone that she hadn't betrayed. This is the side that wants to view our love as having the ability to withstand such a heavy blow and being graced with the power of forgiveness. My anxiety about our relationship has shot way up and Ive appeared at times over the past 4 months to be very clingy and always requiring reassurances. We also went from having sex once a week to minimum of five times a week in a sort of revived hysterical bonding phase. This clinginess is interspersed with feelings of resentment, hurt and bitterness which she picks up on easily despite me trying to conceal it.

New questions constantly pop into my head that I didn't think to ask her before. I'm not even sure why I feel the need to continue asking questions but I think its because I keep hoping that the answers will lead me to the right decision - either to stay or separate. At first I would make lists of these questions and then we would go over them almost every night with her for a few weeks, and then it lessened to maybe once or twice a week for a few months after that. After a few months of this, I could tell that I was wearing her thin and she was feeling very beat up emotionally. Basically she feels like she cant do anything right and nothing is ever "good enough" for me. I feel like she lacks empathy as well as initiative and I am left not feeling "satisfied" with her answers because she will often deflect or tell me why I shouldn't feel some way. In an effort to get her to be better at this I had her read a book on infidelity, had her do several "writing assignments" designed to help her empathize more, among other things that she is doing to try and help me come to a place of acceptance within reconciliation but this hasn't really helped much. We had a big blow up in early April after I had returned from a trip to our old hometown (where her A took place) and she broke down and asked me to just drown her in the lake by our house, screamed, cried, etc. It was a wake up call moment which made me think to myself that I need to cool it on the questioning if I want to have a chance at keeping our marriage intact. At this point, Ive stopped talking about her A almost entirely because its reached the point where she now views any further questioning of her as proof that I have not forgiven her and she is growing more and more skeptical that it's even possible for me to forgive her despite when I say I do. If I cant forgive her and get over it, she says its not fair to either of us to remain in the marriage. I have told her I do forgive her and now she is saying the proof of that is if I don't keep "confronting" her about it. Confronting to her seems to mean asking any questions about it or bringing it up.

Im not sure what to think or do at this point. Maybe I'll just never feel satisfied and thats as good as its going to get but if thats the case I kind of feel like leaving. I feel like if I knew the whole truth (which I never will) and was there like a fly on the wall to see every last thing they did and said to each other, I'd be gone for sure. Just like I'd probably be gone if I could read her mind. So me staying just seems like Im burying my head in the sand trying to ignore the gravity and scope of her betrayal, but staying and trying to just put it back into the recesses of my mind seems like the easiest and most comfortable way forward.

Ten years here. Same boat.

My WH lacks empathy, pure and simple. He called me at work (I’m a physician) at 1030 the other night to tell me our chronically suicidal kid might have taken some pills. He didn’t look at the pill bottles to make sure they are all there and locked up like they should be, because he was sure it didn’t happen by looking at the kid, using his gut.

Meanwhile, I’m dealing with a patient with a moderate medically urgent issue and he didn’t even look to see if the kid had taken pills…..

He admits he called me all drama style because it’s his technique. He states that he felt reasonably sure that the kid was ok when he called me. Mind you, I’m dealing with very sick patients at that moment, and it was not an "FYI". It was seemingly a call to action. And I have WS alarm fatigue.

Yeah. They lack empathy, plain and simple.

I can’t fix that, and am currently asking myself when i’m going to stop trying to fix other people. When I’m going to try to stop fixing him. I can’t be dealing with five different emergencies in five different places. I’m only me, and this is why I remained married. To have help with my kid with issues.

I hear you. When you find a solution, hit me up.

The only solution I have is that time passes and maybe eventually I will stop caring. Human beings are so flawed, I do want to reassure you that every marriage/relationship is seriously fucked up if it lasts long enough.

Maybe we just stay married long enough to stop caring and develop more apathy, because I do not see that people can develop empathy.

Either my WS develops empathy or I need to develop apathy.

So I’m trying harder. Come on, apathy.

It’s not true that all marriages are terrible or bad etc.

Some cheaters have true remorse and change. Are they perfect? No. Are they better than they were? Yes.

It’s to what degree can you accept the affair and move on with life and be happy?

If I wasn’t happy I would not remain being married.

However if I saw things occurring again (as in infidelity etc) I’d up and leave. The he’ll with the drama it would be quick and 1-2-3 done!

No one is ever obligated to stay Unhappily married. That’s the point - we all have choices.

Gently, what did you do 16 years ago for your own healing? You wrote 'somehow I was able to put it behind me', but your healing requires active work on your part.

What you describe could be the result of 'stuffing' your feelings in 2005 - the stuffed feelings have always been in you,, and they started coming back to you last November.

Being betrayed brings to the BS immense amounts of grief, anger, fear, and shame with it. Those feelings need to be released; otherwise they stick with you and probably get worse. If you didn't deal with them in 2005-2010, they may have come back with a vengeance.

If that's what is going on, I recommend trying out telling your W something like, 'I need to ask these questions/have these discussions for my own healing. I'm not trying to hurt you by bringing this up. I really have forgiven you, but I'd like your help in healing myself.'

A good IC probably can help you.

*****

IMO, you don't describe yourself as a person who doesn't want to R; you describe yourself as someone who's still on the path towards recovery. My reco is to go back to answer the most important question: what do I want to do - D, R, or temporize?

*****

R is not ever over. It's a process of creating an M that serves both of you, and you do that by resolving issues as they come up.

The thing is: new issues keep arising. Old issues can manifest themselves in new ways. To continue your M, you have to resolve these issues, just as you did during R. R doesn't stop - it just morphs into M.

It takes as long as it takes. In your case, it's going on 16 years. I guess in my case we R'ed some years ago - but my W is still working on herself.

Also, the SI rule of thumb is 2-5 years for recovery. Those of us in R who talk about time usually include something like, 'I guess I'm slow' or 'I'm on the 5 year plan' or 'It's taking me longer than 5 years.'

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:04 PM, Tuesday, May 3rd]

When I experienced betrayal my fiancé responded with comments like, her AP wasn't the person she thought he was or wanted him to be and he wasn't comparable to me blah, blah, blah. My very first thought when she said it was, "what if he was though?" When I asked her, she just looked at me while thinking of what to say, but nothing came to her mind that she knew I could buy.

I think my fiancé thought I would feel impressed or superior to her AP when she compared the two of us while stating her preference for me. I was not. In fact, I was insulted. My thought was, it's in her best interest to compliment me and uplift any esteem issues that may have prohibited her desired reconciliation.

But my dominant thought and the only one I kept thinking about was, what if her AP had outstanding personal qualities or ones she thought she couldn't live without? The answer to that is, she'd be gone. So, while she was complimentary of me when discussing her AP's faults, the fact is she essentially cornered herself because using that thought process, the next AP could be a better long term relationship candidate than the one she just left. When I told her this, she knew it was over.

Back in 2005 my WW had a 6 month long full blown EA/PA with a coworker whom she thought she was going to leave me for but then found out he wasn't the guy she had made him out to be.

It's possible the quote above is one you cannot reconcile. The fact is she was going to leave if he was the guy she made him out to be is what remains unsettled with you. She didn't reconcile because of what or who you are, it was because of what he wasn't. Just a thought.

Reading this post was scary for me. I just experienced my D-Day in March and the affair had lasted 3-4 months, not six, but everything else you wrote is generally the same as my wife's affair and her behavior.

I've dug into every detail to find the "whole truth," which I think helps, but it has also given me quite the imagery to deal with. Did you choose not to go through all the details at the time? Did the two of you, separately or together, do therapy? And if so, why/when did you stop?

Did your wife show efforts to improve herself and your relationship back then? If so, did her efforts fall off?

The pain I'm reading in your words is unbearable--especially to think it's from a 16-year-old wound that never healed. I can imagine the feeling your describing though--every day that passes makes you feel like a divorce is less appropriate--then boom, you wake up and 16 years ha passed. How old are your children now?

I really do wish you all the best and I'd love to learn more about your story.

When I experienced betrayal my fiancé responded with comments like, her AP wasn't the person she thought he was or wanted him to be and he wasn't comparable to me blah, blah, blah. My very first thought when she said it was, "what if he was though?" When I asked her, she just looked at me while thinking of what to say, but nothing came to her mind that she knew I could buy.

I think my fiancé thought I would feel impressed or superior to her AP when she compared the two of us while stating her preference for me. I was not. In fact, I was insulted. My thought was, it's in her best interest to compliment me and uplift any esteem issues that may have prohibited her desired reconciliation.

But my dominant thought and the only one I kept thinking about was, what if her AP had outstanding personal qualities or ones she thought she couldn't live without? The answer to that is, she'd be gone. So, while she was complimentary of me when discussing her AP's faults, the fact is she essentially cornered herself because using that thought process, the next AP could be a better long term relationship candidate than the one she just left. When I told her this, she knew it was over.

I just thought I'd acknowledge this as I can relate to this precisely. Knowing that a better man would have stolen my wife away sucks to hear.

[This message edited by Drstrangelove at 7:21 PM, Wednesday, May 4th]

What was the triggering event? Did it involve your WS?

DrS,

You wrote, Knowing that a better man would have stolen my wife away sucks to hear.

Yea it didn't feel good when my W said to me, but I chose you, after she asked me which OM I objected to more OM1, 2 or 3.

It was like I didn't win the OMs lost.

I suspect OM1 lost because my W saw herself working to support him for life moving from apartment to apartment, OM2 lost because she saw him as cheating with multiple women, OM3 because he was so damn old.

But the aspect of life that OMs won is the passion they took from her for me. I don't think this is something that my W even realizes it's just I became someone else to her.

Dr. Strangelove, I think you are handling your experience as well as possible. I'm not sure what else you can do except permit time to pass and determine if you feel more certain about your wife wanting you, as opposed to it not working out with her AP.

I've followed your story closely. Unfortunately, it's not possible to know for absolute sure, but actions and words indicate she had chosen AP but his qualities weren't sufficient enough to replace you, hence she's posturing herself as having "chosen" you. I disbelieved my fiance because she wanted me back and had to say it. She screwed up and knew it, but the damage to me was too great for me to overcome BEFORE marriage, so I chose to end the engagement.

I believe you can reconcile with her but the question is how can you work around the question of which you and her know the answer. I was once a runner up on a job. After 1,2 or 3 candidates declined I accepted. After two years, the principals realized I was the best option. They had no reason to tell me anything different and I could see for myself my skillset was not only superior, but unbeknownst to my employers I brought other skillsets that weren't in the original job descriptions, but very important to the job itself.

I realize we're talking man and wife and not employee and employers, but just something to think about. Again, you are handling your situation superbly. Not perfectly (no such thing) but as well as possibly can be expected considering the circumstances. I've been wanting to post on your JFO post, but SI rules prohibit such. Well wishes and keep hopeful and real.

Note Dr.Strangelove.

Knowing that a better man would have stolen my wife away sucks to hear.

He's NOT BETTER. He's just someone she has not built resentment towards. Nothing more. He was the shiny new car straight off the showroom floor. New cars become used cars at some point and accrue along the way, imperfections and ill timed maintenance requirements, replacing the new leather smell and bells and whistles that makes new car owners feel better about themselves.

[This message edited by Jorge at 4:41 AM, Thursday, May 5th]

Gently now...

I have told her I do forgive her and now she is saying the proof of that is if I don't keep "confronting" her about it.

I think your issue here is that you are not clear on what you are forgiving, as you never got enough information that you needed all those years ago. It was never fully addressed before you gave your forgiveness.

Confronting to her seems to mean asking any questions about it or bringing it up.

This can be taken in a few ways, and two are;
- your WW is exhausted, and needs a short break to recover her strength, so that she can answer your questions for you to heal
- she is still in her wayward thinking, wanting to rugsweep this yet again, using her tears to appeal to your chivalrous nature

Giving her the benefit f doubt, perhaps it could be the former, so give it a rest, schedule a weekly time and duration to talk about the A. This will help structure the conversation, and not let it run wild.

R or D, you will need to heal, as you have obviously not healed well enough to weather this on the long term.

Gently, what did you do 16 years ago for your own healing? You wrote 'somehow I was able to put it behind me', but your healing requires active work on your part.

What you describe could be the result of 'stuffing' your feelings in 2005 - the stuffed feelings have always been in you,, and they started coming back to you last November.

Being betrayed brings to the BS immense amounts of grief, anger, fear, and shame with it. Those feelings need to be released; otherwise they stick with you and probably get worse. If you didn't deal with them in 2005-2010, they may have come back with a vengeance.

Fully agree. One poster describes rugsweeping as taking in a huge breath of toxic air, and holding it in, refusing to exhale. And all that time that it is in there, the toxicity eats away at our insides. I think that is a very good analogy.

Gaining, you know your wife far better than anyone here, and probably more than anyone but herself. Has she been a good wife for the last 14 years? Has she shown you, over time, that she is to be trusted, or are there parts of her personality that keep you in question?

Giving her the benefit f doubt, perhaps it could be the former, so give it a rest, schedule a weekly time and duration to talk about the A. This will help structure the conversation, and not let it run wild.

I'm definitely a fan of this. You have questions that need to be answered, and she is being overwhelmed with your newly reemerged feelings from the affair that are unresolved. If the two of you can't do this slowly, and with compromise, then maybe it really does show either of your unwillingness to try to resolve these issues. The 'it takes two to reconcile' mantra holds true for the rest of your lives....if reconciliation is what the two of you want.

We've seen this before.

If the betrayal was not fully processed on DD, it's not unusual to suddenly trigger and experience the trauma cycle of betrayal all over again years later (e.g., 25 years later).

I'm not suggesting it will take years. But if you triggered in November, and you're reliving D day, then you will need more time to recover.

Cheaters like to believe that time heals everything (it doesn't). IMO your wife is placing her shame equal to or above your pain.

I suggest you talk to an attorney to find out how divorce will impact you. The first hour is often free. It'll give you a sense of control and sends a message to your wife that her playing the victim isn't a smart strategy.

Finally, you may receive more targeted advice if you provide more detail:

1 - Why did you decide to R (in addition to being in love or kids)?

2 - What are you asking about now that she didn't reveal previously?

T/J -

Knowing that a better man would have stolen my wife away sucks to hear.

Your WS might think her ap was somehow a better man/woman/person, but she's wrong.

They ALWAYS Affair down. Always. Your WS affaired down with the ap, and the ap affaired down with your WS. To R, you've got to realize that you may love your WS, but your WS was an AP. That's not easy to accept, but R requires accepting it.

No one can affair up with a cheater.

End T/J

Sounds like you rugswept the affair and she thought all was well. It all came rushing back and now it's like you were just betrayed. Does she understand that you never healed? That it's like it is all new again?

This is fairly common. I rugswept years ago and it came back when I moved home. It might help her if she realized it is not that you've hated her all these years but that the trauma was never healed as it should have been.

Just now getting back to reviewing all of your comments, which are much appreciated. Ive been in a better place mentally for the past few days after emotionally exhausting myself (again) and coming to the conclusion for the nth time that D would be 100x worse than R at this point. It just doesn't make sense on many levels as Im still in love with my wife and we have a lot more on the line than we did 16 years ago (kids, house, 2 successful businesses and a ton more shared history).

Gently, what did you do 16 years ago for your own healing? You wrote 'somehow I was able to put it behind me', but your healing requires active work on your part.

sisoon - We did couples therapy as well as IC for myself for a few years post A and she was remorseful about it. Eventually we just stopped talking about it, the bad thoughts became less and less and I came to accept things as they were. A few things comforted me and helped me feel more secure. One was that I knew that her A was very situational (wrong place wrong time) and not something that she had actively sought out. I knew her character well enough to know she was not the type to seek out casual sex. She is fairly conservative in that area, and we were each others first intimate partners. She was never into going after guys in HS or College and her closest friends were all Mormon. I think I also mostly blamed the AP for the A as a coping strategy. I know it was my WWs choice to engage in the A, but her AP was definitely very aggressive and manipulative and preyed on her insecurities.

I recommend trying out telling your W something like, 'I need to ask these questions/have these discussions for my own healing. I'm not trying to hurt you by bringing this up. I really have forgiven you, but I'd like your help in healing myself.'

This is pretty much exactly what our MC said to us last night (we got back into MC a few months ago and its helped some), and is sound advice. Approaching the questions in a way that doesn't make her feel attacked is key to getting empathetic responses and not deflection and blame.

But my dominant thought and the only one I kept thinking about was, what if her AP had outstanding personal qualities or ones she thought she couldn't live without? The answer to that is, she'd be gone.

Jorge - This thought used to bother me a lot until I shifted my mindset to be one centered in self confidence. It's the "plan B" thought and comes from a place of self doubt, which is totally understandable in the aftermath of our partners cheating on us with someone else who they felt was "better". Say she left me because she felt the AP was better for her. Well, I think I could find someone better than her for me too. Someone who cheats on their spouse is by definition showing many character flaws. My WW at that time anyway was no catch, and either was her AP for knowingly coercing her into an A. You said something else too that is totally true about comparing the excitement of new love with the stability and comparative boredom of a mature relationship. It's as if me and her AP were in a 400 meter sprint race without me knowing it, and her AP had a 200 meter head start. Totally unfair comparison and I feel that had she left me, she'd have found herself wishing she had me back after the dopamine high wore off. So many waywards think that love should always feel like the first year of a new relationship. They are fools.

Did your wife show efforts to improve herself and your relationship back then? If so, did her efforts fall off?

hey Dr Strange - I read your story and am following it closely in JFO forum. Sorry I scared you with this post! Honestly, it's possible to get to a point where it's not going to be top of mind, so know that there is hope. I cant say that my wife took many efforts to improve herself after the A but she did promise to prove to me how she could be loyal and thus far I believe she has stuck to her word. We did get a lot more serious about our relationship and we bought a house and she got pregnant all within 2 years of her A. So its been more of a "show me you're better through your actions" type of thing.

I've dug into every detail to find the "whole truth," which I think helps, but it has also given me quite the imagery to deal with. Did you choose not to go through all the details at the time? Did the two of you, separately or together, do therapy? And if so, why/when did you stop?

I was and am the same way. I gathered enough fine grained details through asking hundreds of detailed questions so that I can now replay high definition mind movies. This has probably made recovery harder, however, I wanted to know the whole truth too.

The pain I'm reading in your words is unbearable--especially to think it's from a 16-year-old wound that never healed. I can imagine the feeling your describing though--every day that passes makes you feel like a divorce is less appropriate--then boom, you wake up and 16 years ha passed. How old are your children now?

Yep thats exactly right. Kids are now 8, 11 and 13. Things are all very good MINUS her A.

What was the triggering event? Did it involve your WS?

morningglory - I watched the HBO miniseries called "Scenes From A Marriage" which was triggering and made me feel really insecure. I thought that it would be a good idea to revisit her A so that we could get a different perspective on it after all this time, so I started asking her questions, and I started learning little details about it that I hadn't known before or had totally forgotten. This then triggered more questions and mind movies started that took me to a bad place.

Gaining, you know your wife far better than anyone here, and probably more than anyone but herself. Has she been a good wife for the last 14 years? Has she shown you, over time, that she is to be trusted, or are there parts of her personality that keep you in question?

Yes, she has done this. She has been loyal the whole time since the A. I think she has some qualities that have continued to concern me such as low self esteem and an anxious attachment style where she thinks I "don't like her" no matter how much attention I give her, but this has improved over time and with changes on my part. The opportunity factor is also much reduced since she transitioned from a male-rich corporate work environment to operating a women's salon.

1 - Why did you decide to R (in addition to being in love or kids)?

2 - What are you asking about now that she didn't reveal previously?

Robert22205https - Id say it was fear, denial, and a desire to "go back to the way things were" at first that made me want to R. I could not accept another man taking my wife away and I didn't view it from a place of self confidence. I also loved her deeply and she tragically convinced herself that I didn't. I wanted to show her she was wrong about that, which I have.

I asked her about how the PA started and also a lot more about sexual details. I had already known some pretty hurtful and disgusting stuff but heres some of what I found out that was new to me:

- First instance of physical contact was on an airplane. Their boss sent them on a business trip and the AP had blocked her into the window seat and put his hand on her had. She wasn't expecting it and was taken back, but she didn't take it away because she said it "felt good to get that kind of attention" that she felt she wasn't getting from me. I did not know this prior to finding out 16 years later. Is it a detail that matters? Not really, but it's hurtful. It also shows how calculating the AP was in pouncing at a point where she literally had nowhere to go and no way to get away.

- Their first kiss was on an elevator in the hotel on the same trip after the elevator door closed he rushed over and kissed her (IM sure this was the open mouthed type of kiss). As she says, this is a common scene from a romance movie. This pissed me off knowing how calculated the AP was - a real Romeo type guy. Now every time we get into an elevator together I get triggered when that didn't used to happen because I didn't know. This is one of the pitfalls of asking too many questions. Again, does it matter in the grand scheme of things? No but it's emotionally disturbing.

- The first time they had sex was only days after the business trip and it was unprotected from the start, when initially 16 years ago it was told to me that he just gave her oral sex the first time and there was no intercourse until the second time. It was also told to me initially that it was all protected until he showed her an STD test months into the A showing that he was clean but what I learned was that he never showed her any test results and she just took his word for it. She later developed genital warts as we found out AP had been having sex with prostitutes in Brazil (which is also an AIDS hotbed). We are both lucky she didn't kill us.

- AP would regularly go for multiple orgasms, up to 3x per session and he did this starting the first time they had sex. So I'd ask how long he lasted and if he took breaks and she said maybe 10 minutes, then a 10 minute break, then 10 more minutes, then another 10 minute break, and then another 10 minutes. This makes me nauseated playing the mind movies of her just lying there and Im trying to ask her what the fuck were they talking about between all his cums. And then afterwards trying to piece together what her thoughts and feelings were as she drove home and got into our marital bed w/o telling me anything and continuing to go back for sex for months afterwards. I literally become nauseated and there is an ache in my heart.

[This message edited by gainingclosure at 3:37 PM, Saturday, May 7th]

It also shows how calculating the AP was in pouncing at a point where she literally had nowhere to go and no way to get away.

Listen brother your WW didn't need to "get away" to reject him, she admitted she liked it and allowed her AP to continue doing it, she's a grown married woman, not a damsel in distress, just like that old commercial, all she had to do was "just say no" followed by a call to HR/her boss/You.

- Their first kiss was on an elevator in the hotel on the same trip after the elevator door closed he rushed over and kissed her (IM sure this was the open mouthed type of kiss). As she says, this is a common scene from a romance movie. This pissed me off knowing how calculated the AP was - a real Romeo type guy. Now every time we get into an elevator together I get triggered when that didn't used to happen because I didn't know. This is one of the pitfalls of asking too many questions. Again, does it matter in the grand scheme of things? No but it's emotionally disturbing.

Again she allowed it, she had already given AP the green light when she didn't reject his advances, the AP didn't make any vows to you, she did and she shattered them, "it takes two to tango".

- The first time they had sex was only days after the business trip and it was unprotected from the start, when initially 16 years ago it was told to me that he just gave her oral sex the first time and there was no intercourse until the second time. It was also told to me initially that it was all protected until he showed her an STD test months into the A showing that he was clean but what I learned was that he never showed her any test results and she just took his word for it. She later developed genital warts as we found out AP had been having sex with prostitutes in Brazil (which is also an AIDS hotbed). We are both lucky she didn't kill us.

Another indication she really wanted it to happen and kept going back for more, and yes she was playing russian roulette with your health when she decided to share her body with her then boyfriend, prostitutes in Brazil of all places !, oh boy talk about playing with fire.

- AP would regularly go for multiple orgasms, up to 3x per session and he did this starting the first time they had sex. So I'd ask how long he lasted and if he took breaks and she said maybe 10 minutes, then a 10 minute break, then 10 more minutes, then another 10 minute break, and then another 10 minutes. This makes me nauseated playing the mind movies of her just lying there and Im trying to ask her what the fuck were they talking about between all his cums. And then afterwards trying to piece together what her thoughts and feelings were as she drove home and got into our marital bed w/o telling me anything and continuing to go back for sex for months afterwards. I literally become nauseated and there is an ache in my heart.

That's precisely one of the reasons why for some, cheating and especially a PA (even a ONS) is a deal breaker, for many, that's the moment when the BS realize their WS took hundreds and even thousands of decisions every single day in order to continue their huge betrayal and then simply went back home to the family like nothing, that is something that never ceases to amaze me even after reading it thousands of times here on other forums over and over again, it's just way too much for many and some even realize the WS ended the M the second they started taking their clothes off and for some even before that.