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5 months later, still in shock

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Buffer posted 8/18/2020 02:55 AM

Brother, just take it one day at a time.
What do you want to do? First thing is take your time in making that call. She knew what she was doing, made the conscious decisions to do what she did. Please advise her that the pictures and videos she did for him, she has lost all control. Once she pressed send. Her AP, has shared them with his friends. Why,? Bragging rights, look at what I got.
AP most likely is a look at me type of guy, so he has shown them. Your WW needs to understand this and don’t accept ‘He is not like that’.
IC for you but you anger will rise and fall. If your WW isn’t all that in recovery for you than. Yep D. She has to support you unconditionally, if she is hesitant, then time for her to leave.
Out of curiosity did she cheat in her last relationship?
One day at a time.
Buffer

[This message edited by Buffer at 2:57 AM, August 18th (Tuesday)]

Bigger posted 8/18/2020 05:23 AM

I will only be going to focus on one issue right now because it’s something you need to tell your wife to do NOW – like TODAY – irrespective of if you divorce or reconcile.

She needs to talk to an attorney to learn her rights and what steps she can take regarding those pictures and videos. Most states have some form of revenge-porn laws and generally it’s an expected behavior that this content is only intended for the recipient. A legal letter reminding the OM of this, reminding him that he is the only recipient and that any leak or distribution would therefore be traced to him and the legal consequences and a demand he deletes them.

That 10-year-old child – it does not deserve to be picked on at school because someone found his/her mom on some milf porn-site.
If you decide to reconcile then having pics of your wife floating about won’t help.
It’s not a given that OM will distribute them, but the odds are too high to leave this lose thread.

SlapNutsABingo posted 8/18/2020 08:56 AM

2020,

What do you know of her past, I mean really know? How much have you talked to her child's father, her exes?

You take all the FOO issues and all the repressed this and that and it means one thing...she got to know this guy and she wanted to screw him so she did. Plain and simple, no need to make it anymore complicated then that. She saw him, wanted him and gave herself to him. Has this been a pattern with her? Why is she telling you this now cause she clearly did not let go of him right away if ever?

[This message edited by SlapNutsABingo at 9:09 AM, August 18th (Tuesday)]

Jaybee2020 posted 8/18/2020 11:03 AM

Hey guys, so I keep getting asked what do l want to do. And to be completely honest, I am not sure. I am incredibly angry, and hurt but I do love her.

Her babies dad cheated on her repeatedly.
According to her, this is her first time cheating, which of course I have a hard time believing.

Its funny that you guys say that her AP shared her pics and videos. I told her that exact thing. I have friends who constantly show me videos similar to them. I will talk to her about talking to a lawyer.

I get that I shouldn't make this more complicated than it should be. She herself told me that she had an attraction, had an opportunity, took it, then regret it. In fact when I ask her "why" this is basically what she said,

"I suppress things and didn't come to u about things I should have and because I did not take the time to put this relationship first to keep our flame alive i allowed myself to become subconsciously vulnerable. So when the opportunity came to me I took it. I'm sorry and I know I messed up. I have nothing left to say. All I can do is start taking action for myself so that I'm not in that position again."

There is more details in her response scattered throughout my messages but basically this. At times I see her trying really hard and other times she seems frustrated and at her wits end. Its discouraging to see that because of the effort I feel like im putting in.
Some days are better than others thats for sure.

Also, I have a question for you guys regarding the polygraph, what kinda questions should I ask? I mean, i know the obvious ones but is there a specific format or way I should word these questions?

beenthereinco posted 8/18/2020 11:13 AM

Polygraph examiner will work with you to get the questions right but basically the questions need to be of the Yes/No variety and you will get a small number of them, maybe 4 or 5. It is best to get a timeline first that is detailed so that you can see what to ask and make one of the questions something like "Have you been truthful on the timeline?"

You want to also establish definitions for things so that you are on the same page for things like what is sexual contact. That way she can't do something like say a bj is not sex. It has to be agreed ahead of time so she knows she is lying.

You'll want to ask if other than the OM that Jaybee knows about have you had sexual contact with anyone else during your marriage? Has she remained in contact? That kind of thing.

Amarula posted 8/18/2020 18:55 PM

Hello Jaybee,

It is normal to still be in shock. As you may have read in so many posts, the first year after D-Day is a nightmare - one day we want to reconcile, the next day we want to divorce; one minute we love them, the next minute we just absolutely hate them. It is a roller coaster of raw, awful emotions and realisations, but I can assure you, it will calm down, whatever the path you finally choose. In the near future you will find your strength, get your power back and you will be able to say, like the majority of us: « I will be ok no matter what. » The onus will be on your wife, not on you anymore, to repair what was destroyed. And if she cannot, you will be ok all the same.

I would suggest you give up MC - your marriage did not cheat, your wife did. So if she is serious about reconciliation, she needs to start IC and dig deep to find her whys (usually low self esteem and immaturity), and maybe you could do that for yourself too as it will really help you deal with the trauma you are experiencing, focus on yourself, and regain that feeling that you are more than good enough, and it is your wife who’s got a problem, not you.

Why also you should give up MC? When I read that your MC said that your wife is truly repentant, it is evidence for me that your MC does not have a clue. It takes months and months for a wayward to reach true remorse (only then can reconciliation start in earnest) and I doubt that your wife has reached it after 4 months only. If you read the posts written by the very insightful ex-WWs/WHs in the Wayward forum, you will see how long it took them. Regretful, she may be, remorseful she is not yet. And some of the things you write about what your wife says are a clear indication that « she does not get it » yet.

For example the justifications she uses to explain her affair - you were more interested in money than in her; she thought you would not even care if she had an affair (ie., you did not really love her therefore blah blah blah.) Typical rewriting of the marriage history, typical demonising of the betrayed spouse, and typical justifications they all use to give themselves the green light to have an affair. Bullshit, we all got it. In passing, continue reading here, it will really help you understand that your cheating wife is not exceptional and her affair with her very UNattractive cheating bodybuilder (meh) is as pathetic, vulgar, immature, sordid and ridiculous as all the stories you can read on SI. Nothing glamorous in an affair! And the justifications, the blameshifting, the minimising, the lies, the defensiveness, the self pity, the love bombing in lieu of authenticity and honesty, we also got it. Cheaters are incredibly predictable in their thinking and actions (or lack of) but when we’re caught into this, we cannot see it clearly. At some point, you will see and feel all this, and you will look at all this for what it is - a crappy story which has nothing to do with you or your marriage but everything to do with the immaturity of your wife and her equally immature and fucked up Don Juan. Not easy, but also liberating, to see the « love of our life », our « best friend », the one who would never do that, the one who is so and so ... at the bottom of the pedestal on which we have put them!

I can see that she is really trying to make it up to me. She is doing things that I’ve never seen her do before.

But when I start to spiral or get triggered, it’s too much for her and she says at times that maybe we should split.

She gets overwhelmed and loses patience with me

She says she can’t be what I need her to be.

I guess your wife is in the love bombing stage. My husband would spend his time doing the vacuum cleaner, cleaning the house, buying me flowers and taking me on trips but there is one thing he was unable to give me - empathy, authenticity, honesty. Because he had not reached true remorse yet. And just like your wife, he was overwhelmed by my feelings, would threaten to leave me if I asked more questions, would roll his eyes with this « Again? But we’ve already talked about it! », would get angry and say: « that will not work, we’d better split », hoping that I would rugsweep and would stop rubbing his nose into the shit he had created. Cheaters want to rugsweep, move on as quickly as possible so they do not have to be accountable, they do not have to face the ugliness of their actions and the destruction of the illusion they had of themselves. You will read that it is not so much the affair that can kill the marriage but the way the wayward spouse deals with the aftermath of the affair. As long as your wife is unable to look at her face in a mirror and truly realise the enormity of what she did and the pain she has caused you, reconciliation (if this is what you want) will not be possible.

It was recommended to you already, and I can only recommend it too - read Linda McDonald’s book « How to help your spouse heal from your affair. » It is excellent, you will see your wife in it, you will see yourself and that will help you so much. It takes only a couple of hours to read and it is so worth it.

Courage to you and good luck!


GoldenR posted 8/19/2020 01:27 AM

But when I start to spiral o get triggered its too much for her and she says at times that maybe we should split.

Again, idk why its hard for me to let her go. 5 months in and its still very raw for me. She gets overwhelmed and looses patients with me. In fact last night she apologized to me she says she can't be what I need her to be.

This was all that stood out to me.

She's not remorseful. She wants out but wants you to end it, that way she can say she tried but you couldn't take it.

Jaybee2020 posted 8/19/2020 11:24 AM

Thanks for all the advise and support guys, its really helpful

On the topic of true remorse I am curious as to what that would look like? I reread my original story and realized that there are a ton of details that I didnt add

From what I read it seems like my WW is either there or right there. She herself has dealt with anxiety and depression. Not making excuses for her but before the A, anytime she would get overwhelmed she would shut down.

I am seeing that here now, however when she composes herself she comes back and apologizes. Again, not making excuses for her, trying to establish a baseline if you will.

Last night I asked her if she would do the polygraph test and got defensive about it. She agreed but said that if i put her throuh that then we would be over. I am currently very calmly trying to figure out my next move.

1 part of me feels like she is saying this because she won't pass the polygraph but the part of me that knows her thinks that it's all about her pride.

Either way, I am in AZ and trying to locate one regardless.

In fact as I typed this out she messaged me apologizing for being mean to me and that she is willing to do the test. She seems legit but I also feel like it's a trap.

beenthereinco posted 8/19/2020 13:48 PM

Go through with the polygraph. She may be bluffing you. Her first response was to say she wouldn't do it which is her most honest moment. She knows she will not pass. Now she says she will go through with it but her intent is to probably not do it. What happens a lot of the time is the Wayward will agree to it and then as it gets closer they will start to tell you that polygraphs aren't reliable. Some folks on here have found Google searches on how to beat a polygraph on the Wayward's computer and that kind of thing. Then she will throw out some new detail that she held back and tell you she did it to protect you and now that you know everything that you can skip the polygraph. Don't fall for it. Go through with it. You will find out more than you know now.

Also when she says that she didn't think you would even care if she had an Affair then the proper question to ask is "Then why hide it? If you didn't think I'd care it would have been much easier for you to just tell me you were doing this." The truth is she knew you would not like it so she hid it.

Robert22205https posted 8/19/2020 14:07 PM

Ask her why you're over if you require a polygraph?

She cheated,lied and destroyed your trust.

Under the circumstances nothing she says can be relied upon.

If she's serious about saving your marriage and rebuilding your trust, this is a major first step.

Inform her that an immediate confession of additional information or correction of her story/timeline may make it more difficult to rebuild your marriage - However, any further lying or withholding details will guarantee divorce.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 2:09 PM, August 19th (Wednesday)]

Newlifeisgreat posted 8/19/2020 21:03 PM

Based on her initial reaction, I think it is safe to say that she is either going to fail, or she will have a sudden revelation that she had sex with him more than once, or that there have been other lovers.

I’m sorry

I think you should put the MC on hold for the foreseeable future, and get a counselor for you individually!

Seems to me that you may be dealing with some co-dependency issues.

Work on yourself
Figure out WHO YOU ARE! What you want out of life! What do you deserve from a loving partner! And do you serve better than how she treated you.

I’m a firm believer in the concept is like a stool in that it is built upon 3 legs. In marriage those legs are
Love
Trust
Respect

Does she love you? If she does, her definition is not one most people would agree with. Would some one that loved you give to another man something that she promised would only belong to you? Of course not. Would some that loves you take such selfish acts knowing that they would cause you such traumatic and near crippling pain? Again. Of course not.?

Now that you now that she is a cheater, and she will always be a “cheater” since there is no past tense for that word, you will NEVER fully trust her again! Every ten she is 5-10 minutes late, you will wonder who’s back seat she is in giving a blow job too, or wondering if she is on her back while some good looking gym rat slides into her. My apologies for being so crude

Finally respect. Do you believe she was showing you respect when she was making decision after decision to cheat on you over and over again? Was she showing you respect when she repeatedly decided to go down on him or spread her legs? Was she respecting you when she was telling you lie after lie to makes herself available to her lover and keep you in the dark?


I’m sorry, I truly am.

But I think if you take a step back, you will find that there is much more to her affair. And you may also discover that she came forward to you because someone knew about it and said they were going to tell you about it.

I would also keep a close eye on her search history. She may look up such topics as “polygraph reliability” and more important, “how to beat a polygraph”

I wish you nothing but luck.
Stay strong. Do whatever you must do, no matter how difficult it may be. And do what you must to be able to look in the eye the man in the mirror

RocketRaccoon posted 8/19/2020 21:26 PM

JB,

You asked:

On the topic of true remorse I am curious as to what that would look like?

Then you posted this:

Last night I asked her if she would do the polygraph test and got defensive about it. She agreed but said that if i put her throuh that then we would be over.

and this:

as I typed this out she messaged me apologizing for being mean to me and that she is willing to do the test.

What your WW could probably be going through, is heading towards remorseful behaviour, but she is not there yet.

The first part shows that she is still holding her own Pity Party, which is not remorseful behaviour. She lashes out on you because she feels sorry for herself that she lost her boyfriend/lost her family/lost herself. It is all about her.

Then the second part indicates that she seems to be 'getting it'. She seems to have woken up a bit, and realises that she needs to help you with what YOU need.

A truly remorseful WS would be bending over backwards to pursue the betrayed, and put the BS's needs before their own. The WS would view the BS as The Prize to be won.

If she is truly remorseful, she would be putting in a shitload of effort. She should be putting more effort and emotion than she invested into her A. She would be sensitive to your needs, to make herself safe for you. No lashing out, accepts 100% responsibility, and knows that it is up to her to do most of the repair to the M.

This does not mean that the BS can just 'cruise' though. A marriage is between 2 people, and it will take 2 to help heal the M. The divvying up of the effort will be skewed towards the WS to handle as they are the ones that broke the M, and the BS will still need to recognise the effort the WS is putting in if the BS wants the M to survive.

She seems legit but I also feel like it's a trap.

You could be right, or it could be that you cannot trust what she says now (normal especially after such a betrayal). Watch her actions and see if they match up to what she is saying to you.

Jaybee2020 posted 8/19/2020 23:06 PM

Thanks for all the input guys, good, bad, crude... i do appreciate hearing this.

I told my WW that from now on we are doing IC rather than MC. To my surprise she agreed and thought it was a good idea.

I've had to put the polygraph idea on the back burner for the moment due to financial issues. I did not realize how expensive it was but as soon as i am able to i will be there.

I do have another question for you guys...

I feel as if I am still stuck in the moment of Dday. I wish i could inch forward but whenever I spiral I find myself asking the same questions I've asked 100 times. At times i feel like im pushing my WW away and other times idgaf.

Is there a better approach to this? Or is this part of the process?

standinghere posted 8/20/2020 02:32 AM

Last night I asked her if she would do the polygraph test and got defensive about it. She agreed but said that if i put her throuh that then we would be over.

Unfortunately this means that she is either lying to you about the current affair, hiding others, or she is not willing to put in the work. All three are bad. Polygraphs are not useful if someone is determined to continue lying, or not out in the work.

standinghere posted 8/20/2020 02:32 AM

Accidental triple post

[This message edited by standinghere at 2:33 AM, August 20th (Thursday)]

standinghere posted 8/20/2020 02:32 AM

Accidental triple post

[This message edited by standinghere at 2:33 AM, August 20th (Thursday)]

Robert22205https posted 8/20/2020 08:38 AM

I wish i could inch forward but whenever I spiral I find myself asking the same questions I've asked 100 times. At times i feel like im pushing my WW away and other times idgaf.

The above is 100% normal behavior on the part of the betrayed spouse.

The above is not within your control. Instead it's every betrayed spouse's natural reaction to the emotional trauma THAT SHE CAUSED.

This is your wife trying to avoid the consequences of her decisions - and trying to avoid dealing with the pain and destruction she dumped on you.

She caused this mess and one of the many consequences is you cycling through the questions over and over.

Everyone's healing time is different (so her experience is not relevant). If she wants to R, she must accept that it'll play out as long as you need it to.

1 - remind her that your pain (that she caused) is 1,000 times greater than whatever discomfort she feels when you repeatedly ask the same questions

2 - if this pushes her away, she's not R material

3 - this is an example of judge her by her actions not her promises. If you recycling through questions pushes her away - that's a red flag.

Better to conclude she's not R material sooner than later.


tushnurse posted 8/20/2020 09:23 AM

OH so much to uncover in your posts.

1. She is not remorseful. Her why is bullshit. Her anger is bullshit, and her apologies mean nothing if she continues to repeat prior behavior.
Remorseful WS's will seriously do anything and everything to help the BS to heal and move forward.

2. The average rule of thumb for healing is somewhere around 2-5 YEARS. NOT 5 months. She needs to understand this, and reset her expectations. She needs to understand that she has destroyed your ability to trust, and that it's going to take a very long time if ever for you to trust her again, and a Poly goes a long way in showing that you know everything you need to know in helping through the process of starting to heal yourself.

3. Both of you need IC and I see that you both are going to do this, or at least agreed to it. Here is the thing - a lot of WS's will say all the right things, but actually do nothing. Actions over Words.

4. Until she gets to her real why and fixes that within herself she is not a safe partner for you. Not the BS excuse she gave you.

I suppress things and didn't come to u about things I should have and because I did not take the time to put this relationship first to keep our flame alive i allowed myself to become subconsciously vulnerable. So when the opportunity came to me I took it.

This has some mild blameshifting going on too. DO NOT ALLOW THAT. YOU BEAR NO RESPONSIBILITY IN HER CHOICES. HOLD HER ACCOUNTABLE.
Depression/Anxiety should not keep her from acting like a responsible adult.

5.

I feel as if I am still stuck in the moment of Dday. I wish i could inch forward but whenever I spiral I find myself asking the same questions I've asked 100 times. At times i feel like im pushing my WW away and other times idgaf.

Is there a better approach to this? Or is this part of the process?

You have sustained probably the biggest trauma in your life thus far. It takes time, and IC will help you navigate the PTSD that you have developed as a result of her actions. DO NOT feel bad or guilty that you aren't "past" it yet. 5 months is nothing in the overall scheme of things. Be kind to yourself. There are no shortcuts to healing. You can't go over it, under it, or around it. The only way is to go through it. Do NOT feel like you should be further or over it. It takes years to heal from this trauma.

Make sure you are taking time for YOU and YOU alone every single day, and be kind to yourself. Self care is huge in healing properly.


Unhinged posted 8/20/2020 09:38 AM

I feel as if I am still stuck in the moment of Dday. I wish i could inch forward but whenever I spiral I find myself asking the same questions I've asked 100 times. At times i feel like im pushing my WW away and other times idgaf.

Hey there, Jaybee2020. Welcome to SI.

You've already received some good advice and guidance so I'm going to touch on this aspect of your posts.

For most people, the betrayal of infidelity is a profound shock and a severe emotional and psychological trauma. Most of us will experience some levels of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), with varying symptoms. Take some time and do a little research on PTSD. Talk to your IC and/or PCP about it.

It took me about 10 months just to recover from the shock of it all. At five months out I was still an absolute wreck. Infidelity is crazy-making shit!

Be patient, brother. Be kind and gentle with yourself. Asking a gazillion questions over and over again is a part of the process. Falling down the rabbit hole (spiraling) is a part of the process. Wild emotional swings are a part of the process. Vacillating between "I love my wife" and "frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn" is a part of the process of recovery and healing. And it's a long, long journey.

Focus on you, your recovery and healing. Step-back and detach from your WW. Find your own peace of mind, body and spirit. Ultimately, we are all responsible for our own happiness and peace.

Whether your WW is willing and able to do the work that reconciliation requires is beyond your control. Some WS can do it (as mine did). Others either lack the fortitude or the ability (or simply don't give a shit). Preparing yourself for either option (reconciliation or divorce) is always a good idea. (Always be prepared, right?)

Consult a divorce lawyer, even if for no other reason than to educate yourself on your legal status and options.

You'll get through this, man. The shit storm doesn't last forever, but it sure as shit feels like a Cat 1,000,000 hurricane.

siracha posted 8/20/2020 10:00 AM

The first thing to figure out is why you want to stay and why she wants to stay . Maybe you have good reasons but frankly bad reasons are very common too ( denial fear learned helplessness and manipulation)
She clearly knows she is broken and has even told you to move on . It will prob take 3-5 years for her to be an acceptable partner and that's best case scenario; you might have biological kids with her in that time and she might never stop circling the drain.
Sometimes you have to divorce asap , you can always re marry later but with a hard prenup and multiple pre emptive clauses like full custody for any future children

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