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I just don't know

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ExistingInLimbo posted 8/4/2020 05:03 AM

Apologies for the length. I've omitted a lot of things that have happened because I don't want to waste too much of anyone's time.

I've been with my fiancée for 9 years and engaged for 7 with no sign of a wedding on the horizon. She's never been an open person and I find it hard to know what she's feeling most of the time.

5 years ago she lost her job and we had to move in with her parents. We're still there despite neither of us being happy with the situation. Since living there our sex life has become virtually nonexistent. To cope with my frustrations I started lots of new hobbies that took up a lot of my time.

Two years ago she became very distant for a week. I tried to get her to open up but she refused. Then on a Sunday evening while I was at work she text me to say that she felt down because we weren't spending much time together. I apologised and told her I would do everything I could to be better for her. I decided to drop my hobbies for a while and focus on her.

She works early on Mondays and I work late so the next time I would have seen her was 9pm Monday evening when I got home. When I got there she wasn't there and her dad said she had gone to take pictures of the sunset. I text her to say I hope shes having fun. She didn't reply and she didn't arrive home until after midnight. She hadn't taken any photos as her camera ran out of battery. We went upstairs to bed and were talking and cuddling up when she got a WhatsApp notification. The name of a coworker of hers came up on the screen and she turned the phone away from me to reply. She then went to the bathroom and on her way back to bed she got another message which she replied to while standing next to the bed with a huge smile on her face.

After that night she seemed to be talking to him all day every day and would turn the phone away for every message. She also started changing her phones pass code which I had always known up to that point. Then one evening we were cuddled up on the sofa and she had no chance of hiding her phone screen from me in that position. She got two messages from him and didn't look at them. Five minutes later she went on her phone to scroll Facebook rather than look at the messages. After she had gotten up and left the room I asked her why she ignored them and she just said she didn't feel like it. After that answer I decided I had to snoop on her phone.

It took a while for me to get her new pass code as she was changing it daily at that point. When I finally had her current one I checked while she was asleep and found nothing. She had deleted all conversations with him. After checking two more times I found a short conversation on Facebook messenger. In it he complained about pain somewhere and she replied "I could nurse you back to health " he said he was sure she could but he wouldn't need nursing unless she ran him over while driving behind him riding his bike. She replied saying "well I was admiring the view :)"

I was devastated by this conversation. I already suffer from depression after a 5 year abusive relationship in the past. I didn't know what to think so I decided that I would have to gather some evidence. Unfortunately her phone received a message at that point from a friend asking why she was still awake. The noise woke her up and I was forced to confront her there and then. She obviously denied anything was going on and said the flirty messages were inside jokes from work.

I restarted my prescription of antidepressants as I couldn't handle what was going on. I wanted to trust her and believe her but I just couldn't. As I had been off the tablets for a couple of years I had to get used to them again and went through weeks of hell. During that time she would often go out for walks alone despite never having done that before. She was also still hiding and deleting conversations with him. One time she was desperately messaging another coworker to stop her from reporting him for sexual harassment. A few weeks later on the night my aunt died and I needed comforting she was messaging another coworker to protect him from being reported again! She started staying at work extra late. Sometimes not getting home until 2am despite finishing at 11:30pm.

Once I was over the initial effects of the tablets I decided to try and trust her. She had explanations for all of the things that bothered me. They weren't good explanations but I could live with them. She stopped going for the walks and seemed to stop messaging him.

Then two months ago after a late shift at work she got a message. She swiped down her notification bar and I saw a short message there. All I saw was his name and the fact that the message ended with 6 x's. She turned the phone away to reply and I saw her tap the area of the x button 6 times rapidly before sending the reply. A few minutes later she got another message and did the same thing. A week later I saw her sending another message which she replied to in the same fashion. I have trouble confronting due to my past relationship so it took me a few days to build up my courage to ask about those messages. Her reply was that she accidentally sent the kisses.

I set up a VAR in her car and got nothing. I discovered that after finishing work on her late shifts she will drive to a street nearby and just sits in her car scrolling through her phone until she receives a message about 30 minutes later. The amount of time it would take her coworker to drive home. Then she would drive home.

I really don't know what to think at this point. I've tried finding proof but she deletes everything. I can't go on her phone as I don't know the pass code and she only ever uses fingerprint id to unlock it these days. I have no definitive proof of anything as the things I have seen have been "explained" by her.

I love her so much and if she has been unfaithful to me then I could try and reconcile but the not knowing what is going on is so painful. I feel like my only chance at this point is to give her an ultimatum to tell me the truth or I leave but I'm having real issues getting my confidence up to actually go through with it. I did post my story on reddit but got a lot of overly hostile messages and comments which hasn't helped the situation at all.

Buffer posted 8/4/2020 05:37 AM

Well a hell of a lot of red flags here🚩
The lack of communication, late nights, unusual absences and secret texts with phone guarding. Nah definitely a EA at the minimum.
Well it is up to you. First off you need to be tested for STDs and STIs, she may have been physical and this has put you at risk. As you are engaged but loving with her parents. Move out, there is more s no respect and they are most likely enabling her actions. Separate finances. And start the 180. You have asked her and she has lied. Time to move on.
Sorry But Self respect is needed
One day at a time

The1stWife posted 8/4/2020 07:52 AM

I don’t think you need any more “proof” that she has been cheating.

Suspicious texts
Turning the phone away so you cannot see the screen
Changing her passcode daily
Going for walks that never happened before
Disappearing after work and coming home late

You don’t have to confront her. You can start putting Together an exit plan - like $ in your own name she has no access to and finding a new place to live.

I’m sorry you are facing this. You have been engaged for years but you don’t know what she’s feeling. Please don’t think marriage will change this. And please do not think she doesn’t have serious issues. She does. She just doesn’t address them or talk about them.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 7:52 AM, August 4th (Tuesday)]

fooled13years posted 8/4/2020 07:52 AM


She's never been an open person and I find it hard to know what she's feeling most of the time

One of the things that I am thankful for in regards to my ExWW and former friend having an affair is that I had absolutely no idea.

I think that if I were suspicious of something and couldn't prove it would have driven me crazy.

Your fiancée may not be having a physical affair (PA) but it seems to me that she is having an emotional affair (EA).

By your own words she would not open up to you but it certainly seems like she has opened up to the coworker.

If the two of you are sure you want to be together I would suggest that you both seek individual counseling as there seems to be many things you both need to work through on your own.

After you both are ready then perhaps couples counseling would be of some benefit.

ExistingInLimbo posted 8/6/2020 04:11 AM

I think it is definitely at least an EA and probably a PA by this point.

I'll be getting an sti test ASAP and I've been working on an exit plan.

I would reconcile with her but the fact that she keeps lying to me about everything makes it seem like that is an impossibility at this point.

I'm already in councelling for my depression and have made a lot of progress. I'm working on my confidence so I can give her the ultimatum and have the strength to go through with it if she keeps lying.

Kaliber posted 8/6/2020 05:40 AM

I think it is definitely at least an EA and probably a PA by this point.
I'll be getting an sti test ASAP and I've been working on an exit plan.

I would reconcile with her but the fact that she keeps lying to me about everything makes it seem like that is an impossibility at this point.

I'm already in councelling for my depression and have made a lot of progress. I'm working on my confidence so I can give her the ultimatum and have the strength to go through with it if she keeps lying.

Sound like you have a plan!
However. I would strongly recommend that you go over some stories here and learn about how to deal with infidelity the correct way!
You need to learn about not doing the "Pick Me Dance" among other things.

If you find out about her shady behaviour, she is at minimum having EA if not PA, the first mistake is to offer the gift of reconciliation, it doesn't work that way.. she needs to face consequences or else you will be facing a world of pain and hurt and it's not worth it.

Reconciliation is a gift you offer to a truly remorseful spouse, not a way to reg sweep and force your self to be with her just because you think you can't do or find any one better!

But one question you need to think very deep and hard about:
Is she marriage material?!

You have the strength and you will know the answer if you know your self-worth and how much you value yourself!

Keep us updated so we can help you, and good luck..

[This message edited by Kaliber at 5:53 AM, August 6th (Thursday)]

Bigger posted 8/6/2020 05:44 AM

If you love her so much that you can’t bear the thought of losing her then simply be quiet and let her have her affair.
If you are lucky he’s just a player and will tire of her within 12-18 months. That’s the usual lifespan of affairs. Who knows – in between things between you two might even feel like normal. With luck he will move on or your fiancé tire of him and maybe she will give your relationship some attention. At least until the next beau arrives on the scene. If you are VERY lucky it’s still “only” an EA and won’t progress to a PA.

If that doesn’t sound too great then really reconsider what it is you want and what it is you fear.
What is the absolute worst outcome from this situation?

If you want to save your relationship you need to be willing to sacrifice it.

Some will argue you need more proof. The ONLY proof you need is that YOU are convinced. Granted more or concrete proof will strengthen your conviction, but you could confront with what you already know.

I think it would probably be good for you to confront your fiancé on your relationship, where it’s headed and what she wants out of it. I think it’s also good to mention the other man and to ask what that’s all about. Chances are that IF this is still “only” and EA (and I’m saying that without minimizing the damage of EA’s) then she probably doesn’t recognize it as an EA. It then boils down to what work she is willing to do. A great first step is for both of you to read Not Just Friends by Dr. Glass. It might open her eyes.
But if she comes back with a “I don’t know” or “I don’t know if I want A or B or C or D” or isn’t willing to do any work…
You better be prepared to put your foot down and decide that you are getting out of indecisiveness and infidelity. With or without her.

Bigger posted 8/6/2020 05:44 AM

double post.

[This message edited by Bigger at 5:44 AM, August 6th (Thursday)]

Booyah posted 8/6/2020 07:05 AM

You've been engaged to this woman for SEVEN years?

Can you elaborate on why the two of you haven't gotten married yet?

Can you also elaborate on why you're still living with her parents five years later?

How old are both of you?

You "love her so much" and yet your sex life is "nonexistent", and "she's never been an open person".

"If she has been unfaithful to me than I could try to reconcile".

Are you enjoying playing detective with this child?

Robert22205https posted 8/6/2020 07:06 AM

Usually the more info you provide the more targeted the advice.

Is my understanding correct that she's been secretly texting the OM for 2 years now?

How old are you guys?

Any kids?

Are you financially dependent on her (or her parents)?

Is the OM married?

Do they have any time to be alone together (including lunch, weekends, evenings, shopping trips)?

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 7:08 AM, August 6th (Thursday)]

ExistingInLimbo posted 8/6/2020 07:29 AM

We haven't got married yet as we haven't been able to afford it.

We're still living with her parents as we've been trying to save up to buy our own house but have been struggling to pay off debts that built up while she was put of work.

I'm 33 and she's 29.

After the confrontation about the flirty messages two years ago I haven't noticed her messaging him until I saw her sending the x's. So she was probably secretly messaging him and got sloppy.

We have no kids.

We're both financially independent although she earns more than me and will help me with expenses if needed.

OM isn't married but has a girlfriend who he has a child with. They broke up for a while earlier this year and are now back together and expecting another child. All of these details I have been told by my fiancée as she knows virtually every detail about his personal life.

AFAIK the only time they have alone together is on her late shifts. She works in a small store that closes at 11pm. She will be there with him and another coworker who's shift finishes at 11:15. Her shift should end at 11:30 but she says until everything has been sorted ready for the morning.

BBBD posted 8/6/2020 10:21 AM

It takes $150 to get married. I know, I just did that. JP signs some papers and so do you. She’s way past the fairy tale wedding dress wedding. The way she’s treating you, she hasn’t earned that.

She does not respect you, period.

Cut bait now. Run away from her. However, if you decide to stick around, tell her, no more passwords, codes, secret emails, chat apps, etc.

Time to stand up to her.

Kaliber posted 8/6/2020 11:08 AM

Cut bait now. Run away from her. However, if you decide to stick around, tell her, no more passwords, codes, secret emails, chat apps, etc.

Time to stand up to her.

Wont have that big of a effect.
She works at the same place as the AP even same shift.

May add to the list: Change jobs.

[This message edited by Kaliber at 11:08 AM, August 6th (Thursday)]

Dismayed2012 posted 8/6/2020 12:24 PM

Your life is a living hell EIL. You're staying with this betrayer because you're co-dependent. You would do well to get a grip on yourself, call off the engagement, and find another place to live...alone. You're young and have many good years ahead of you. If you continue to ignore the reality that your girlfriend is cheating and isn't interested in you then you'll have no one to blame but yourself for wasting years of your life knowingly.

I'm sorry about your situation. We've all experienced the pain that you're in. Realize that it does get better once you're free from your betrayer. There is happiness and relief after this. It does however take your willingness to take action and advocate for yourself. I wish the best for you.

HalfTime2017 posted 8/6/2020 15:01 PM

You're not married. You need to quit now. No need to make it ugly. Just call off the wedding, which has been in engagement for a long time anyway and start anew.

When folks come on here and they are not married, its a lot easier. Don't get tangled up with her. Find someone new. You're not even married yet and its a mess.

racer57 posted 8/6/2020 15:28 PM

I'm sorry but I'm agreeing with the others who say it may be time to call it quits.

Lots of baggage, lack of trust, uncertainty and IMO the future doesn't look like it has that much promise to provide you with what anyone is looking for in a R, namely love. trust, and security.

Someone said you are codependent. So was I and I didn't even know what it meant. When I realized what it was , I definitely didn't like the look and what it said about me.

Good luck.

Robert22205https posted 8/6/2020 17:48 PM

I'm sorry but you're in another abusive relationship. What she's been doing to you is seriously disrespectful as well as unfair.

She thinks that deleting texts and hiding evidence of an affair will prevent you from dumping her.

In reality she has an obligation to avoid suspicious behavior, including secret communications with OM - and she failed big time.

You don't have an obligation to assume there's no affair - or to give her another chance (especially since you already confronted her 2 years ago). However, she does have an obligation to avoid suspicious behavior and to assure you that there is not infidelity. She failed.

She's basically been lying to your face every day for two years.

After you confronted her two years ago, she went underground behind your back (i.e., which is deceitful/lying to you).

The engagement is a test which she failed.

No kids? Take your share of the savings and leave. Do not get her pregnant.

You deserve a better life partner. Do not settle.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 5:50 PM, August 6th (Thursday)]

Jameson1977 posted 8/6/2020 18:59 PM

Brother, I’m sorry you are dealing with this.

Your story has more red flags than a communist parade. I am by no means trying to joke here, I would put money on at the very least an emotional affair and given the free time away from you she has, this certainly could be a physical affair.

Listen, I know exactly what your feeling as do many of the posters here. I know the feeling of wanting to believe my wife’s excuses. When you look at each instance on its own, it can be explained away. Look at all the red flags, and it becomes clear.

In a healthy relationship, you should be able to show each other your phones and all the content.

She is deleting messages, she is actively, trying to hide her conversations (think about how much time you are not together, she is talking to this guy a lot more than you know), trying to convince others at work not to file harassment complaints against him....two different women!?! This is not the behaviour of a good, faithful partner.

It sounds to me like this guy knew exactly what to say to have her fall head over heels. My wife’s AP sure did, it was so stupid and easy, I laughed at one point when she told me what he would say and do that she felt was sooo special.

She knows you are on to her, and is probably doubling down on her deceptive efforts. Don’t be surprised is she tries to get you off the trail using sex, very common. I fell for it too, up until my dday. This might take some time to catch her. You might have to act normal and look at hiring a PI to observe her.

You can do all that, and still may not get any hard evidence, but you know, deep down, she is cheating one way or the other (or both). I feel you have enough suspicions that you are justified in putting down some non negotiable terms.

Finally, please, please do not tell her you are willing to R. If she knows this, what does she have to lose? She could have her fun and come right back to you? Don’t be plan B to anyone.

I’m really sorry, this is the really awful part of infidelity. Take care and focus on yourself. Stay away from booze, it is not your friend during this time, believe me. I know.

ExistingInLimbo posted 8/9/2020 14:41 PM

Thanks for the kind words everyone.

I'm having real trouble getting the courage to give her the ultimatum to tell me everything or I'll leave. It's not that I'm not strong enough to follow through with it. It's more that every time I see her I lose the will to do it. Whenever we're apart I strongly feel that I have to do it but that feeling goes away instantly when I'm with her. It's not a conversation I want to have over text as I wouldn't see her reaction and it would give her too much time to attempt to come up with a cover story.

My therapist told me the best way to have the conversation is to own my feelings and she gave me an example sentence that sounded perfect but I've forgotten the way she said it as I didn't follow through with having the conversation that night.

When I do finally have the conversation I won't say I'm willing to R although it'll be implied from the ultimatum. If she refuses or if its something I can't deal with then I will definitely leave. I've already got an exit plan sorted so I'm ready whenever I get the courage to do it.

Okokok posted 8/9/2020 14:59 PM

it would give her too much time to attempt to come up with a cover story.

FYI, you really should be planning that she absolutely *will* be giving you a "cover story" no matter what happens.

What will happen is this: you will confront her, and she will once again deny, tell you you're just crazy and jealous, and that whatever you saw was just friends doing friend stuff. At best she may tell you that the conversations were a little flirty.

If and when you go this route, your focus should not be on what she says in terms of her inevitable denial or deflection, but instead what *you* do next.

Ideally, you would say something like "I have evidence of you having an ongoing affair (she will repeatedly ask you what you have; do not tell her anything under any circumstances), and as long as that continues and/or you continue to lie and hide things from me, I have no choice but to proceed forward with the ending of this relationship no matter how sad it makes me."

Then, as sad as it makes you, you have to walk that walk.

It's possible that if you do, she will come crawling back and beg you to give her a second chance. If you still want to and think you can stomach an attempt at reconciliation, then you can cross that bridge if and when you get there.


There is one other big option for you here: you could expose this to the AP's pregnant girlfriend. I bet we could help you come up with a really good way to do that that could really help you (and her).

Exposure is the #1 affair-killer.

When I do finally have the conversation I won't say I'm willing to R although it'll be implied from the ultimatum. If she refuses or if its something I can't deal with then I will definitely leave. I've already got an exit plan sorted so I'm ready whenever I get the courage to do it.

This is great. So what's next?

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