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fooled13years posted 10/31/2019 11:25 AM

787

that if she ends this now he could tell authorities and she could land in jail herself

Do you really think the authorities don't know that your WW is involved with this prisoner?

Nothing comes into prison, short of smuggling, that the authorities don't know about.

Westway posted 10/31/2019 11:59 AM

To hell with your WW. Your first priority is to protect your children. Take the initiative and notify the authorities of what she is doing. This will help you in the custody phase.

Bigger posted 10/31/2019 12:49 PM

Oh wow 787 MikeÖ

Iím going to be really blunt hereÖ
You are using your kids as an excuse to avoid doing what needs to be done.

Letís be real: Letís imagine you donít do anything and Mr. Kray getís early releaseÖ There is nothing that can prevent your wife from having him round, nor can you prevent him from associating with your kids. He wasnít in jail for sexual crimes and as far as the legal society is concerned heís paid his dues. Be very very clear on that. Doesnít matter what WE want or think.

Here are some things that we can consider ďfactsĒ:
1) You canít control what she thinks.
2) You canít control what she does.
3) You canít MAKE her remain in this marriage
4) You can ONLY control what you do.
5) At best your actions can impact what she does and thinks.
6) IF Mr. Kray getís out and IF your wife thinks heís the love-of-her-life then they will be together. At that point it will be public knowledge that sheís with him. So, there is no reputation or shame to be saved. She hardly expects to keep it secret from others that you no longer live in the house and another man is mowing the lawn.

Your WW has told you what she wants. She wants the OM. There is still some difference in what she says and what she does, but verbally she has told you she wants the OM. Who knows why it hasnít taken place, maybe she canít visit (after all Ė fired from that job) or maybe sheís not 100% committed to the next step. But as is she has told you what she wants.

What do YOU want?
Be real hereÖ You canít say you want her because sheís told you already she doesnít want you or the marriage. At least not the way YOU (and probably all of us here) see a marriage.

ARE YOU WILLING TO ACCEPT SHARING HER?
Are you willing to pop over for tea early afternoon, but have to leave early because lover-boy and ďnew dadĒ is coming over?
If you insist there is nothing in the whole universe that you want more than herÖ wellÖ settle for that. Settle for sharing.

If that doesnít sound good then you should seriously consider action that has repeatedly helped betrayed spouses get their start out of infidelity, sometimes even pulling their spouses along with them.
Namely the realization that losing the marriage is NOT the worst outcome.
What is usually much worse is the realization that you are SHARING your wife. That someone else is her romantic partner, and you are at best the family support system. A walking check-book.

You say your wife was a prison officer and your location indicates you are over in UK.
First of all, itís generally very sensible for UK posters to take note of what M1965 says. He speaks the Queens English.

Her job at the prison is most likely a Government job with Her Majestyís Prison Service. Even if itís a contract-job then there are strict government-dictated HR rules that need to be followed. Things like a written warning and cause for dismissal. In fact, if you google phrases like ďfemale prison guard intimateĒ you even quickly find instances of prison sentences, official inquests and even wrongful dismissal cases.
Now Ė MAYBE your wife was offered a chance to quit, but no HR department would risk a dismissal (even a voluntary one) without documentation. They can hide behind confidentiality law and even you Ė the husband Ė wonít be able to access that info. But a court can get to itÖ A judge can order them to share why your wife was fired.

I also wonder about her ability to communicate with him. Prisons usually have very limited ways for inmates to communicate. There is very limited phone-time, capped internet and a ban on mobiles. Things she should know as a former guard.

OK Ė With that build-up then this is what Iím going to suggest you do:
ďWife Ė I have realized that losing you is not the worst outcome. In fact, while you chose OM then I have already lost you as my wife. The worst possible outcome for me is ongoing infidelity. Therefore, I have decided that I am getting out of infidelity. You are totally 100% free to be with OM or any other man for that matter. But not as my wife.
I am simply assuming that you have committed to your affair. I am simply assuming that you have chosen him. I am therefore starting whatever process is necessary for us to no longer be married.
There is a short window in time for you to ask me to save our marriage, but you need to do so verbally and clearly and totally 100% of your own free will. It would require changes, provable accountability and a serious commitment.
The further I go along on the path out of infidelity the more content I will be with my decision.
I refuse to hide your decision. I refuse to support your affair.
There are rules and regulations that should ensure a fair division of assets and equal custody to the children.
The only major stipulation I make regarding the children is that they be kept away from Mr. Kray until and unless I approve of them being around him. This is non-negotiable, and I will not hesitate to take you to court if you donít agree to this condition, despite the dirt that would churn up about you.Ē

And then you simply go and start living a good life.
You start separating the finances, finding a good attorney, looking for a new family home where you can have your kids 50% of the time and so on.

Once your wife sees you are serious one of two things will happen:
She will do her best Ė possibly correctly, possibly wrongly Ė to get you back. If she does that then evaluate her actions and words. If sheís doing it correctly then fine. If wrongly then carry on.
OrÖ
She wonít give a damn and carry on with her prison-romance.

That too is fine. It gives YOU a clear path, and thatís more than you seem to have right now.

787Mike posted 10/31/2019 14:56 PM

Ok Iím in an absolute mess here and donít need some people losing patience with me. Im reaching out and I know some people look at this as a cut and dry situation but it isnít. Itís my life and Iím in an awful mess with it all. Please show
Me some support rather than belittle me for what I have or havenít done yet.

The story is she worked there for 6 months in that time there was allegations she was in an inappropriate relationship with prisoner A - however she was dismissed for opening a gate to a sterile area by mistake: she appealed this and lost. The establishment said it was gross misconduct for opening the gate but on balance of probabilities that she was having an inappropriate relationship there was no evidence. So technically she wasnít dismissed for this.

I found out she had seen him on a cell phone one day but instead of reporting this to her manager or confronting him
She instead said nothing. Over time he said he trusted her, and she gave her snapchat address to him and that they formed a trust. He protected her on the wing and in return she didnít grads him up for having a phone. When I found this out I told her all contact stopped immediately and it did. I moved back in and I tried to put the whole episode behind us.

She was adamant she was wrongly dismissed and went for several jobs at other prisons she said she wanted to fix what she did wrong and would be a better officer. The prison she went for jobs was THE same prison prisoner A had been transferred too. She didnít get either job there S on her file is gross misconduct.

One day a mutual friend told me that his wife had told him she rings a guy on FaceTime whoís in prison and that she calls him babe and stuff. I knew instantly it was him. I confronted her she admitted it was prisoner A and that he had got his hands on her mobile number somehow and rang her and that she was in touch with him slagging off the prison that transferred him and sacked her. So a mutual bond began again. I left the family home and didnít return.

Since then she took our kids on holiday and I did not go even though I paid half of it as I didnít want to wreck our childrenís holiday by arguments. I later found out she bought tobacco on that holiday and passed it to prisoner Aís mate who isnít in jail but he throws it over the wall for him?? Bizarre. Prisoner A had asked for her details and sent her £500

The money he got for selling this he then put into HER account without my wifeís permission and then she knew this guy had her by the balls so to speak. So she continued to call him and him call her ( all from a mobile phone he isnít allowed but had access too) and they have formed a deep friendship and she then began to have feelings for him.

She has been to visit him in this new prison 4 times on each occasion she has said its to ask him to remove this money from her account but he wonít. He makes excuses and says he will be out soon so she can pass it him then!

In one breath this is clear manipulation in another this is her falling head over heels for him. Either way thereís trouble.

I know I canít be with her after all these lies. She says she can fix this with him removing this money from her account but letís face it thatís a load of bollocks.

Sheís risked our marriage, our kids being without their mum if sent to jail and her career. All for a man who is a selfish shit. She doesnít belong in jail. Sheís made mistakes but this is clear conditioning. This guy is a IPP prisoner. Heís up for parole on Monday! Itís too late to notify authorities Iím afraid.

Iíve warned her he comes near the kids Iíd have him
Back in jail in a heartbeat and letís face it this guy isnít going to want 3 kids and a woman 6 years older than him surely. He also wonít change his ways as he isnít even rehabilitated.

I have evidence that could wreck her life if I wanted too but I donít seek revenge. If she fails to keep him away from my kids then a solicitor would have a field day. Iíve got all sorts on her she cannot get out of. She knows this, he will know this and I have the bullets for the gun. I can use them when I want too but I only want too if she doesnít cut all contact with this chap.

She says she will, she probably wonít but she says she can fix this once that money is out of her account!

What a story

DoinBettr posted 10/31/2019 15:09 PM

Ok. Your post started one way then went another. You started meek, then talked about your evidence and strength. Stop calling yourself SOFT. You got this.
We haven't been criticizing you, simply telling you to keep this guy away from your kids and file a divorce. You know that.
Why don't you file? Then if she does get into legal trouble, you can distance her more effectively.
Plus, you can always get back together after she gets herself out of this situation.
She just needs the kids taken away from her. If something happens there you will never forgive yourself and neither will she.

[This message edited by DoinBettr at 3:54 PM, October 31st (Thursday)]

HellFire posted 10/31/2019 15:10 PM

What is the account he put money into? If she is no longer employed at the prison, then surely it's not an account there? Is it a bank account?


Is she paying his cell phone bill?

[This message edited by HellFire at 3:10 PM, October 31st (Thursday)]

faithfulman posted 10/31/2019 15:21 PM

787Mike, I don't see what is not cut and dried about this.

Your wife is weak-minded, has no principles, and has ALREADY EXPOSED YOUR KIDS TO THIS MAN'S CIRCLE OF THUGS - when she passed tobacco to his friend while she was on vacation WITH YOUR CHILDREN.

She has lied to you and furthered her relationship with him at every turn. All this "He did this or that without her permission/knowing" is pure bullshit.

Your wife is playing with fire, and you are allowing her to play with fire around your children.

You need to get her recorded on audio admitting to this risky shit she has been pulling. A nice argument while you are recording on your smartphone should do it.

With that you have evidence to get a favorable custody arrangement. You don't have to show it to anyone, not even her, just let her know that you can prove how she has risked the wellbeing of her family so she can mindfuck if not real fuck a violent con.

If you think she did all this stuff for him while he was behind bar and she isn't going to go further once he is out, you are deluding yourself.

Either you can take actual steps to protect your children or you can pine for the woman who your wife never was to come back and sweep this under the rug.

Your choice. But if danger or harm come to your children you will know you had the chance to do something and instead held out hope for your idiot immoral wife to do the right thing.

Sorry to be so blunt, but that is the truth.

Fishin4happyness posted 10/31/2019 15:26 PM

We know it's hard to hear. But you need to see the intent of the previous writers. All are trying to snap you out of your current way of thinking because it is flawed. There is more than enough direction written here for you to consider that will get you out of this shit show. Read it until it sinks in. Good luck.

[This message edited by Fishin4happyness at 3:29 PM, October 31st (Thursday)]

Catwoman posted 10/31/2019 15:39 PM

Dude, we're trying to help you see the gravity of the situation and the need for immediate action.

There is nothing to prevent her from draining your bank account "supporting" this prisoner.

There is nothing to prevent her from having your minor children have contact with this violent offender.

It sounds like she was rightfully dismissed, and I'm pretty confident you're not getting the whole story here. Cheaters lie. She lies. Don't trust anything that comes out of her mouth without evidence to back it up.

The prisoner didn't get his "hands on her phone number somehow." She gave it to him. Pure and simple. More lies. Stick around here a while and you'll see that many WSs tell the most OUTRAGEOUS lies.

Another outrageous lie: that this prisoner could magically put money in an account without having the credentials for the same. She was in the deal with them. Trust me on this one.

Call her bluff on this one. Tell her you want her to go to the local police station and file a complaint for identity theft since these individuals got her banking credentials without her permission and that is identity theft and that is against the law. Tell her she will need to swear an oath that she is telling the truth. Watch how fast she backpedals.

We're all quite anxious for both you and your kids. People in jail are, for the most part, not good folks and certainly not people you want around your children. Stop believing what she says and watch what she DOES.

She bought the tobacco.

She visited the prisoner.

She gave him her phone number.

She gave him her bank credentials.

That's not a remorseful spouse in the least.

As others have said, sometimes you need to give up on the marriage to save it.

I would file and give your attorney every last bit of dirt you have on your wife and on the prisoner(s) involved. You don't have to use it, but let your attorney guide you.

Your children and your future are at risk here. Please take legal action so that she cannot hurt you further, and so she cannot put her children in harm's way. Trust me, I was the victim of my WS's AP's brother. Thieves are thieves, for the most part. And as far as your WW is concerned, you can't trust anything she says. Period.

Cat

MickeyBill2016 posted 10/31/2019 15:49 PM

I may be wrong but once he put the money into her account it is her money unless they have a joint account.
Or tell the police that he his funneling his prison contraband sales into her account...oops she would be on the hook for that as a co-conspirator. Her head is seriously up both her and her BF ass.
Prepare for a shitstorm when he is released and comes around looking for his money or your wife...

Robert22205https posted 10/31/2019 16:03 PM

First, bank account numbers are not public information. SHE gave him the account number. It's likely they're building a nest egg.

Second, how can he withdraw money from her account while he's in prison? Plus she can contact the bank and notify them that the deposit was put in her account in error and was not made by her - and should be removed.

Third, it's not a coincidence that she applied for another job in a prison where he is located.

Fourth, her life is out of her control and you can not believe anything she says. Don't let her drag you down with her - expedite the divorce.

M1965 posted 10/31/2019 16:06 PM

For information, IPP is a UK prison sentence.

Wikipedia says: "In England and Wales, the imprisonment for public protection (IPP) sentence was a form of indeterminate sentence introduced by s.225 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003 (with effect from 2005) by the Home Secretary, David Blunkett, and abolished in 2012. It was intended to protect the public against criminals whose crimes were not serious enough to merit a normal life sentence but who were regarded as too dangerous to be released when the term of their original sentence had expired. It is composed of a punitive "tariff" intended to be proportionate to the gravity of the crime committed and an indeterminate period which commences after the expiration of the tariff and lasts until the Parole Board judges the prisoner no longer poses a risk to the public and is fit to be released."

...she bought tobacco on that holiday and passed it to prisoner Aís mate who isnít in jail but he throws it over the wall for him?? Bizarre. Prisoner A had asked for her details and sent her £500

The money he got for selling this he then put into HER account without my wifeís permission and then she knew this guy had her by the balls so to speak. So she continued to call him and him call her ( all from a mobile phone he isnít allowed but had access too) and they have formed a deep friendship and she then began to have feelings for him.

She has been to visit him in this new prison 4 times on each occasion she has said its to ask him to remove this money from her account but he wonít. He makes excuses and says he will be out soon so she can pass it him then!

Mike, the only way Prisoner A could deposit money in your wife's bank account is if she gave him her bank account details. And the only reason she would do that is so he could transfer money into it. He did not need her permissions to do that; she gave him her details specifically so that he could it.

So her 'horror' at having £500 that Prisoner A made in jail by selling the contraband she supplied to him in her bank account does not ring true. If she did not want him putting money in her account, why give him details of the account?

She actively and knowingly provided Prisoner A with contraband, in partnership with his friend, and then provided her bank account to him to bank his profit.

She is a former prison officer who knows the rules better than anyone, actively aiding and abetting the smuggling of contraband into a prison, and then helping to smuggle the profit out of jail and into her bank account.

And then she pretends this was done without her knowledge, and she has to keep visiting Prisoner A to plead with him to remove the money from her account because she had no idea what he was doing?

There is not one part of that that is remotely credible. She knew, and knows, exactly what she is doing.

Heís up for parole on Monday! Itís too late to notify authorities Iím afraid.

Well, if you make a phone call to the governor of the jail and explain what you have explained here, I guarantee that his parole hearing will be delayed while the case is reviewed.

Mike, everyone hear sympathises with you. Honestly, mate, it is horrible when a wayward spouse goes 'rogue' in the way that your wife has, but the more contact that she has with that, the more likely it is that she will end up behind bars anyway.

And your wife now has money from criminal activity in her bank account, which gives Prisoner A power over her unless it is taken away by informing the authorities.

Seriously, call the prison governor immediately, explain what has been going on, and see a lawyer.

If she is this much of a puppet for him now, how long is it going to be before she is hiding class A drugs in her house, or guns?

My heart goes out to you, Mike. Your wife has created an absolutely appalling situation. But it won't stop until it is stopped.

I am sorry to put it that bluntly, but once that guy is out, your wife's bank account will be full of cash from his criminal enterprises, and her house can become an Aladdin's cave of stolen and illegal goods. Who could possible suspect a mother of three children and a former prison officer of aiding and abetting a criminal?

Your wife can be used as the perfect front person, and she is already part of the gang and handling criminal money. Which is why Prisoner A wants to keep his money in her account, and why he will continue to keep it there. He will keep saying he is going to remove it, and instead several thousand more will suddenly appear after a nice little drug sale.

And your wife will say she cannot stop it (not that she wants to), and you will say that you cannot stop it because your wife will get in trouble.

So prisoner A now has a nice safe bank account in your wife's name that is not linked to him, but from which he can draw money whenever he likes, via your wife, to start hiding his illegal earnings in when he gets out of jail.

Why would any crook worth his salt voluntarily end such a sweet set up?

Mike, it can be stopped now, or it can be stopped a few years from now, by the police, when it has really spiralled out of control.

I am really sorry that you are in this position, Mike, but sitting back and not revealing what you know is not going to make any of this better.

Call the prison governor, contact a lawyer, and stop this disaster from getting any worse than it already is.

I wish there was an easier way out of this, but your wife has totally and utterly compromised herself, to a ridiculous degree, and she is now open for further, worse exploitation until this crazy bubble is burst.

Phantasmagoria posted 10/31/2019 17:33 PM

Mike, Everyone who is on the receiving end of infidelity gets scared in one way or another. Itís a huge wake up call, pretty much as big as they come. How we face those fears is also a defining moment, and for many an opportunity to redefine themselves.

When children are involved this becomes especially important because children use us, their parents as a frame of reference - the good and the bad - for the rest of their lives. I urge you to think hard about that!

What long term view do you want your children to have of you?

1) A Dad who took assertive action to protect them, that stood up for himself by not tolerating disrespect and disloyalty?

2) Or a Dad who let fear dictate his behaviour, a deer in the headlights who stumbled at the first sign of trouble.

This is a defining moment in your life where you either take control and you decide what is and isnít acceptable, but either way you are in charge.

or

You concede control and allow your kids and your life to be impacted by some fuck-up who has spent his adult life behind bars.

If you want to respect yourself, and you want your kids to respect you, then what you need to do here is obvious. All this postulating on Ďif he comes near my kids, Iíll have himí is bullshit...itís all words and you know it! Words are easy, they donít define anything. Itís time to take actions, and the people here will support you and help you as you navigate forward. Your situation has its challenges, but there are others who come here that are far worse off, such as betrayed wives whose husbands/partners beat them, sometimes pregnant and with young children, and they have no means to support themselves and nowhere to go. Youíre in a much stronger position than some and you have the ability to take control, and the sooner you do so the more control you have.

Skadu posted 10/31/2019 18:23 PM

Dude, this is one of, if not the most, cut and dry cases on this site.

Squeel on her, turn her ass in for aiding illegal activity as an officer of the law. Again, your excuses are keeping you from properly protecting your kids from the situation she is creating.

Buffer posted 10/31/2019 18:46 PM

Brother, a lot more information. You need serious legal advice now. As well as IC and social services support.

Clearly she is being manipulated by this POS. However; she is actively seeking his validation. She cannot fix this, it can be proven electronically that she has received financial gain by smuggling the tobacco. She is sticking her head in the sand waiting for him.

Unfortunately she has killed your marriage. She did this knowingly, she has been recruited. Thank god she was unsuccessful in getting employment where the POS is still serving. She would be on the inside by now.

You must seek IC your emotions are all over the place. Go get additional legal advice now in relation to full time custody of your kids.
Your wife has a one way ticket to gaol POS knows this and will hold it over her head. She can help herself and that is to come clean to the authorities, as well as surrender the money to the prison integrity unit. Any this else is a continuation of the offence and opens up more charges.

Your priority now are Children first, closely followed by you. WW has made her bed, she is gone and if anything is making you an accessory after the fact due to your full knowledge of her actions.

You are hurting, confused and care for the WW
that you married. She is not that person, that person went into gaol and never came out. What you see now is a manipulative person who is complacent in supporting criminal activity and has received financial gain. She is colluding with POS criminal mates.
There is no way your children should be around this. You need to talk this through

Marz posted 10/31/2019 20:06 PM

I've seen this what I'd call cockblocking technique tried before.

All it usually does is enable it further.

It seems like you think you've hot it all figured out. I hope you don't end up regretting taking no action.

chelsea9 posted 11/1/2019 05:39 AM

787Mike I understand why you feel people are on your case but it's because, removed from the situation, we can see the severity of this scenario and the urgency required to act for your kids very clearly.

I think your reading of the situation is coloured by your understandable feelings for your W and your complete shock that you are in this place. We can all empathise with that. The tough love you've had on this site is not meant to deride you or because people are losing patience, it's because people are trying to wake you up to where you really are right now.

I'm afraid to say that no matter who your wife was before and what her values were, she has blown them apart. She has betrayed her M vows, she has betrayed her professional conduct (even thought his was her dream job), she has broken the law and she has betrayed the safety of your children. And that's all before he even gets out of prison! You can only imagine what boundaries she will be prepared to cross once he's out.

You obviously, and commendably, feel a sense of duty to protect her because she appears to have lost her sanity. But in her betrayal she has lost the right to your protection. Furthermore, she is an adult and, frankly, she needs to live with the consequences of what she has done, both personally and professionally.

Right now she is in a state of mind - sometimes called The Fog here - that makes this impossible. Reality is the only thing that ever starts to clear this thinking.

You have three urgent actions, after which you can take stock and decide how to proceed. First, you need to inform the prison of the money laundering and threats and get his parole hearing delayed; second you need to seek legal advice; third you need to take every action you can to safeguard your children.

Those are the obligations you do have and you know what, if you are still feeling protective of your wife, then you are actually doing her a favour. You are, in effect, staging an intervention, because she is way off the bottom of the barrel but she's heading there really fast and you acting now could stop her getting into a lot more trouble.

dblackstar2002 posted 11/1/2019 05:46 AM

Sorry guys, I think this is one of those cases where Mike knows what he should do. But is trying to find someone who will talk him out of it. All you can do at this point is wish him luck and pray that noting happens to him, His kids or his wife. May God be with you dude.....

nekonamida posted 11/1/2019 06:30 AM

Mike, we're asking you to take action now because once he's out and around your kids, you are fighting an uphill battle. Removing custody can take months, even years, even if he's very abusive towards them. Fighting her without clear abuse happening means you're getting 50/50 or less until something awful happens enough to convince the judge otherwise. Generally it's easier and quicker to amend a custody split in light of new evidence than it is to get a ruling heavily in your favor the first time around with an uncooperative spouse. This is why you need a lawyer today and to figure out what your options are before shit hits the fan and he's a free man.

Bigger posted 11/1/2019 07:51 AM

OK Ė One last tryÖ

Mike Ė I try to deal in facts and reality.
With the forewarning that Iím neither British nor an attorney, but I have spent some time now googling and reading about custody and how/if you can limit who your wife has around your kids. The following is MAINLY based on sites with endings like gov.uk so I think I am fairly correct in my assessment:

Throughout all your reasoning for why not to act you use your kids as your shield.
My wording is intentional: A shield is something you use to protect YOURSELF from possible hurt. You are NOT standing in-between your kids and the present situation, but rather using them as a shieldÖ
That shield is when you say that IF your wife has OM around the kids THEN you will be really angry and might act.

Only problem is that I am about 99% certain your estranged wife can have OM over 24/7 and there is nothing nothing nothing you can do about it. Even if itís your home, in your name and you paying taxes and mortgage and allÖ If you and your wife are estranged and she has been residing in that home and you elsewhere she has a stronger right than you for residence. Wonít impact your financial rights, but definitely your residential rights.

IF he had done time for a sexual-based crime, pedophilia or violence against a minor you could file a restraining order on behalf of your kids. But armed robbery wonít cut it. If you were to phone the police and complain that a convicted armed robber on parole was in a home where your estranged wife lived with your children, they would AT BEST send someone over to confirm he wasnít abusive.

Mike Ė this isnít what I want, and it might not be what you expected. But it is what it is.

Keep in mind that while married you and wife have a certain (but limited) joint financial responsibility. For example; if she runs up a credit-card debt a collection agency might come after you or go for a jointly-owned asset like a vehicle.

By far your best bet IMHO is the stance I suggested. In your first post you mention the reason for firing was the open gate but mention reading about the relationship. SHE WONíT want that in the open and right NOW you have a chance of becoming your kids shield, rather than using them to shield yourself. That might lead to you placing their mom in a tough spot, but itís to protect YOUR KIDS.

And MikeÖ In one post you worry that the relationship could get her in trouble and in another you claim there is no official knowledge of the relationship. You canít have it both waysÖ


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