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The other side of my fence

myturntohurt posted 10/10/2019 11:36 AM

As sad and messed up and confused I am, there's another side to this.

1. I feel sexual chemistry will never come back, for either of us. He agrees. Can therapy help for something that's really gone?

2. If this happens, the big D, it couldn't be a better time, for me at least. The recently renovated house is paid for and mine, my car is new, and appliances are new, so I hope I would be problem free until I'm in a better position to deal with house & car situations.

3. Here is a good reason for him. He will have a cushion when he falls, and as far as "rebound" situations for him, well that wouldn't be my problem. He's told me in the past, when we've thrown the word "divorce" around, that he would never find anyone else, "he's lost his looks, he's old, etc, etc". This woman was such a boost. I know I said "anybody BUT her", but that's because if there is chance of R, I want the person tugging on his heart string to go away. If in the end we divorce, I would approve. If I have to give him up to anybody, it would be her (and that's jmho) and makes me feel better.

4. Am I really going to be excited when he comes home everyday?

5. Am I going to stop rolling my eyes at the banal things he talks about?

6. Am I going to deny that I've wanted a divorce every other year?

7. Divorce may save our relationship, like I've read. He will always be my good friend, and always be in my life because of the children.

8. I have good support for this, either way it goes.

I'm starting counseling soon and I don't even know where to start with her. I'm not throwing myself at her feet but in my mind I am. Thanks


Zugzwang posted 10/10/2019 18:02 PM

If my wife had written something like this. I would be done. To me it is clear you are. I wouldn't want to be with someone that questioned us this much. Especially someone that cheated on me and I am a cheater. Just saying. Why get back together?

myturntohurt posted 10/10/2019 21:15 PM

Zugswang,

My negative side. You're right, why get back together. IDK, I really don't; there's a 27yr history, future grandchildren, rocking chairs, and a love of each other forever. Not the right kind of love I guess. Is there (false) hope that we can get some serious therapy together and get by this stuff???? IDK. Will he ever get over my affair, doubt it. Not as long as he thinks I'm in TT mode still. From what I've read, he's ready for the other shoe to drop. How can I blame him? I can't convince him even though I'm all for a poly. I hear people say, "ask her/him for a poly, that should scare the crap out of them". Not me.
Should I even be on here with my mixed messages? I mean, get it together girl!! I am very well educated, but, have not an ounce of emotional intelligence. No one needs to tell me that.
One definition of that, in my world, is that I shoot myself in the foot, and deal with the consequences later. That's how I got in this situation in the first place. I was diagnosed with Oppositional Definance Order as an adult. At first I thought it was funny, but it has really hindered me and it's NOT funny anymore. Anyway, how do I know he's not sitting in his little townhouse thinking the same thing about me? Like, do I really want to come back to someone who is critical and distant? I don't know and hopefully when we go back to the table Nov. 1 (3mo separation point), we will get a clearer picture of what's going on. Neither of us want to pull the plug but maybe one of us has to. I was so happy he took me back and I became a very safe partner, he'll tell you that himself. I'm pissed though that I stuck around to face the music for six years, and he takes the coward route and just leaves.

Justsomelady posted 10/10/2019 21:32 PM

1 Grass is greener where you water it - goes for sexual chemistry too. We had a good core friendship and core love that we used as our base and healed from. Husband and I didnít have sex for two years almost and we managed to bring it back after we turned towards each other and paid attention to each other - little acts of nonsexual love build that environment - being thoughtful, touching, holding hands, kissing, complimenting things he does when I see them... I feel your confusion coming through, but I donít understand it but perhaps I am missing something to the chronology - what led him to leave 6 years post d day?

2- okay.

3. About his self esteem - I hope you can boost him and that he finds pleasure and fulfillment in hobbies and things to help improve this area of his lifeS. Regarding partners - You will have no control over this anyway, it is his life to live if you divorce. Who knows? Wonít have anything to do with what you will or will not approve of.

4.hope at least sometimes - but that takes commitment too, that excitement. With the exception of special times or the new start of a relationship, nobody is super excited each day. I am always happy to see my hubby and sometimes excited. But I am not just vibrating with enthusiasm all the time and I donít think it is realistic in any long term relationship.

5. Everybody had the things that make you cringe from time to time but hopefully most of them are quirks you chuckle about with affection. Sounds like you have contempt for him and donít respect him totally? Maybe I am misreading what you say...but if you are truly Eye rolling - that is for me, something that speaks volumes of how you see him. To me it is a non negotiable thing - eye rolling is a sign of contempt - i donít tolerate it from friends or family. It is a huge sign of disrespect. That said, what is it about what he says that bothers you so? If my spouse felt the way you do I would not want to be married to him. Do you not get along? What do you like about him?

Justsomelady posted 10/10/2019 21:44 PM

ď Anyway, how do I know he's not sitting in his little townhouse thinking the same thing about me? Like, do I really want to come back to someone who is critical and distant? Ē

Talk to him. Critical is something you can work with, you can ask him to change this or give feedback more constructively. Distant - I dunno, keep talking to him - isnít distance somewhat to be expected from time to time for a BS? It is a lot to take on, reconciling with the person who hurt them.

Communicate. While you can. After you divorce, if it comes to that, it wonít matter and you can let what he thinks go and focus on kids money etc.

This all sort of feels like you think he will always be there waiting for you and that he is an option and not a priority to you - this is not going to inspire him to Feel that way about you either - will feed his distance - and perhaps criticism too as he emorionally detaches -and cause his self esteem to plummet

[This message edited by Justsomelady at 10:11 PM, October 10th (Thursday)]

myturntohurt posted 10/10/2019 23:02 PM

Justsomelady,

Thank you for pointing out what you did. Eye rolling goes on behind his back, still, it's not a good sign. I know. Contempt, I guess it's more obvious to others than me. I was glad to hear that you and your husband brought your intimacy back. That would be cool. I think we could deal with everything else if we got back to that.
He will NOT always be there for me. He has one foot out the door. I have one foot out the door.
That emotional attachment is still strong for us right now. We're not taking that as "we are getting back together", we are just separating slowly. He is the one who left. Now I'm going to get pissed again. Told you. wtf is my problem?

Justsomelady posted 10/11/2019 11:36 AM

His departure is connected in a big way, though not all, to your past betrayal. It has impacted his self esteem and although I donít know all of your story or what his stated reasons were to leave after six years, it sounds like he pulled back from the other woman when you made a stink. It sounds like you do still want him but it seems deeply unfair that you need for strong motivation to reconcile to come from him. You should be the one asking him to return, in my opinion, and working on yourself and moving heaven and earth to make your betrayed spouse feel safe. If you need all the grand gestures to come from the person you hurt, then youíve got your priorities and values backwards.

myturntohurt posted 10/11/2019 17:42 PM

Justsomelady,

I am willing to put in 100%. He needs to be in it 100% too because he wasn't last time. He went right back to his vodka and sports.
He took me back, I mean, wouldn't even let me leave when I asked if I should. But he didn't put work into the reconciliation either! I've had the finger pointed at me for 6 years. He is getting counseling, I am going to start soon, and when we put some good work into ourselves, then we should talk about our future. I am done bringing her up, she is 100% out of the picture for now. I was so mad when I saw those phone calls. I am seriously stepping back, this is his deal, his decision. Obviously he can do whatever he wants. If he wants a divorce I will give him one, if he doesn't then I will put in 100%, including MC again ( no more than 6 sessions), and see where it is going 6mo's later. Does this make sense?

myturntohurt posted 10/11/2019 17:48 PM

How do I get rid of the stop sign? I need some more "abuse", er wisdom :)

I can be funny (awesome sense of humor), sarcastic and flippant at times so maybe I make your your heads roll, like when I said "we never shook on it", referring to our separation. That's just me. Keep asking questions if clarification is needed.

[This message edited by myturntohurt at 5:49 PM, October 11th (Friday)]

JBWD posted 10/11/2019 19:29 PM

I am willing to put in 100%. He needs to be in it 100% too because he wasn't last time... He took me back ... But he didn't put work into the reconciliation either... He is getting counseling, I am going to start soon, and when we put some good work into ourselves, then we should talk about our future.... If he wants a divorce I will give him one, if he doesn't then I will put in 100%, including MC again ( no more than 6 sessions), and see where it is going 6mo's later. Does this make sense?

Does this make sense? I donít believe it does. Him taking you back and getting counseling was about the most work he can do. You say further on that itís not time to asses, yet youíre already putting time limits and MC limits up.

At one point your love consisted of not giving of yourself. When you give you canít do it with conditions. ESPECIALLY if youíre trying to prove that youíre now better equipped to give selflessly. That means that he gets to tell YOU when you all are going to reassess.

I get that you all didnít ďshakeĒ on the separation, and thatís CLEARLY fucking with both of you now. The objectives need to be clear and theyíre not. I get the impression (especially given that it appears youíre both just beginning IC) that this is much closer to starting R from scratch than you realize.

If you want to set this arbitrary 6 month timeline and see how it goes, my guess is it ends in divorce. If heís worth the wait heís worth the wait. But heís not getting much reassurance with you telling him heís got 6 months to get over it.

myturntohurt posted 10/11/2019 20:46 PM

JBWD,

Hi, thank you. I didn't set the times, we both did. We said we would discuss where we are, at the 3 month mark. We're not even sure we will. I believe another 3 months are in order. After that, or after 8 or 12 months, we meet and discuss. If he moves in again, we will assess again 6 months out. Yes, and that one is my time line. If it happens, R, and it appears to be false again, we need to let go. I shouldn't say it was a false R, it was a lazy R.
In another post I said "shake on it" because one night he said he was moving, we've both said that, but he took his ring off that night, and I had no idea. I didn't know he really meant it this time. That's why I said that. I said something like, "geez, we didn't even shake on it." I didn't discover he took his ring off until we were at a concert, that he invited HER to join us, and my girlfriend told me he didn't have his ring on either. Soon after we wrote the terms of our separation.

But, I will wait if I can. He is 2.5 months into a year lease.

Thanks for helping

Zugzwang posted 10/11/2019 21:15 PM

When was your last TT? Have you done IC? I know 6 years seems long. Yet, time means nothing if you aren't doing the right things in that 6 years.

What do you mean by this?

and he takes the coward route and just leaves.
Why would he be a coward? Because he is dating the girl he has been having an emotional connection with at work while separated?

myturntohurt posted 10/11/2019 22:59 PM

Zugswang,

My last TT was a year out from DD. I haven't done IC but I have been seeing a psychiatric nurse practitioner, who has acted as my counselor (that's how I feel anyway). She's super insightful.
Now soon I will be seeing a well-known marriage counselor here in town.

I called him a coward because he walked out. I didn't. He is hedging his bets and I'm not sure I'm into that during our separation, that still has a chance. That's all :)

JBWD posted 10/12/2019 10:34 AM

I'm not throwing myself at her feet but in my mind I am.

Not throwing yourself at your counselorís feet, you mean, I believe(?) This highlights a very dramatic tone throughout your posts, and like I said on your other post recently, I think it makes good sense to slow down a bit. This makes it sound like getting to IC appears to be some sort of cathartic process that will fix it all- Itís gonna take time!!!

It seems you both are impatient with this process, but youíre gonna have to keep perspective on the fact that there are no fixed values when it comes to recovery, whatever it may look like. Itís been six years where your lives likely felt on hold and to hear that you might be starting over? I get it.

The opposition disorder you mentioned in this other post also sounds like a potential source of friction in this as well: Your posts frequently read like the only reason youíre pursuing is because he isnít. If that can be examined more deeply your IC can hopefully help you figure out if itís R you want or if itís another thing you have to have because you canít.

ETA: Iím glad your timelines are mutually agreed upon.

[This message edited by JBWD at 11:19 AM, October 12th (Saturday)]

Zugzwang posted 10/12/2019 12:33 PM

I called him a coward because he walked out.
What do you mean? Because he isn't all in on R?
I didn't.
You really did. The moment you chose to cheat, you walked out. If it was an exit affair, then it was initially to exit or to teach him a lesson. If it was to cake eat. You still gambled and took the chance hoping the marriage wouldn't end over your selfish cruel choices. IMO any cheater walked out on their marriage. Doesn't matter how long ago it was. For you because of the TT it was 5 years and again doesn't matter if the 5 years were wasted.

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