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WS to WS

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Nolife posted 11/24/2019 01:11 AM


[This message edited by SI Staff at 9:55 AM, November 25th (Monday)]

Pyrite posted 11/27/2019 20:20 PM

Hiking out

Yes - and for me, I carried shame before the divorce. The sources were from the past and very deep, I didn't spend time healing them so shame always made me feel less than. I didn't feel worthy of other people's time.

I had shame as well (before marriage) but I didn't really realize the effects it was having on me. Just like all the other foo issues that I didn't recognize at the time. While I feel 'less than' because of it, it very much has a way of paralyzing action. I'll check into that book. I've struggled with some of her stuff in the past, but can try again.

Need2Do posted 12/2/2019 09:06 AM


I had shame as well (before marriage) but I didn't really realize the effects it was having on me. Just like all the other foo issues that I didn't recognize at the time. While I feel 'less than' because of it

Pyrite, I didn't realize just how shame affected how we feel about ourselves, how we see ourselves on a whole. I realize I may sound very vague, but for me it attacked my self worth, my self esteem - in short my whole self value system, and twisted my perception of my self and others to such a degree that everyone was out to get me...and it was safer to some extend to hide in a 'fantasy world'.
That contributes to me not being a safe partner, and I won't be until I find/learn better coping skills, and forgiveness. Forgiveness for the transgressions against my self.
In a way, I am looking at all of this like a BS, I need to know what I am forgiving, what I need to learn/find regarding coping skills, and take a more offensive posture with the shame that has been attacking me...so I have started writing every 'foo' issue I can remember that could have been the 'beginning', and once I have that as my arsenal, I will take it to my therapist and dig some more, because I know that I can't go too far on my own, I need help.
I have read of the courageousness of many WW here on this forum, to change and be safer partners, you have helped me find the strength in me to be the person I should have been all along. Now I set my part of the world right. Thank you.

MrsWalloped posted 12/2/2019 11:44 AM

Pyrite and Need2Do,

I am unfortunately an expert in shame. Toxic shame and unhealthy perfectionism in particular. If this is something you’re still struggling with, Brene Brown’s work on shame resilience theory was very helpful for me. Look up I Thought It Was Just Me, Daring Greatly, and The Gifts of Imperfection. Positive affirmations and re-framing techniques help and I do them daily.

I also worked with my therapist on Cognitive Behavior Therapy. It was a godsend for me because I needed a whole change in my wiring inside my head. It might be something you want to talk to your therapist about.

LifeDestroyer posted 12/2/2019 18:45 PM

My new therapist said we are going to start working on cognitive behavior therapy.

Girl123 posted 12/6/2019 11:18 AM

I regret that I betrayed my core values and my integrity. I lost who I was and its a long process to come back.

BraveSirRobin posted 12/6/2019 12:22 PM

Girl, it's good to see you again. Have you had your baby yet?

Girl123 posted 12/6/2019 12:43 PM

Thanks BSR. Not yet. Today was my last day at work, I started my maternity leave. I will start to prepare the house for the holidays, I'm going to have a full house. I'm tired but excited.

hikingout posted 12/12/2019 09:18 AM

What is everyone doing for their WS for Christmas (if you celebrate it)

ff4152 posted 12/12/2019 09:57 AM

WS to WS

The topic is forgiveness. How did you finally let go of the hatred for yourself and what you did? This has been on my mind for a very, very long time and I cannot seem to let go of “who I was”. These feelings aren’t just related to my A; they also encompass A LOT of stupid and crummy stuff I did when I was younger. Intellectually I can acknowledge that the person who did those things no longer exists. But I cannot get there emotionally.

Thoughts or ideas would be appreciated.

hikingout posted 12/12/2019 10:08 AM

ff152 -

I was struggling with this mightily. I am not sure that my answer will be satisfying or not, because I have decided that will never happen the way I was envisioning it.

One of the things that I feel I was doing was focusing a lot on it, and it was feeling forced. It was like a gigantic weight around my neck. The feeling you are looking for is the opposite of that, it's beginning to let go of it. So, what you are doing is holding it tightly when you are trying to get yourself to forgive yourself and it's counter productive.

I think after really putting one foot in front of the other and making the changes I needed to make - which included healing past trauma and evaporating the shame around it. Then I could at least be compassionate with myself. I could say "okay, you fucked up royally. You made some very terrible decisions, and you hurt yourself, your spouse, and your marriage in a way you will never be able to take back. But, you are ensuring this is never your behavior again and when you know better you do better". Essentially it was accepting, I am human, I am not perfect, and that I could give myself some credit for doing the best I can moving forward. And then you just kind of have to say to yourself - that's going to have to be good enough. You don't really have to forgive yourself for those decisions, you just have to try and love yourself more unconditionally and you have to be able to keep becoming that person that you are proud of.

I will say when I got to that mentality over time I have been able to let go of that feeling you are having more and more. I don't really know if I will ever forgive myself, but I don't hate myself, and I want to do better. The more I work on myself the better I feel and the more I am able to let some of those more raw feelings fade.

So, stop the forcing (think of it as a closed fist) and start the letting go (think of it as an open fist).

I can't say I don't have bouts of shame, guilt, and I don't know if I ever will not feel remorseful, but it doesn't wear on me and weigh me down in the way it once did. I couldn't have told you that this was what I was doing at the time, but I can describe the process and what it felt like more in retrospect. It's more the process of acceptance than forgiveness - acceptance you can't change it but also that you don't have to keep yourself from peace and self love as a punishment.

[This message edited by hikingout at 10:11 AM, December 12th (Thursday)]

BraveSirRobin posted 12/12/2019 14:20 PM

What is everyone doing for their WS for Christmas (if you celebrate it)
I assume you mean BS, and he reads my posts, so... 🤐 🎅

TimeSpiral, I promise this is the first time I've edited myself for your benefit!

hikingout posted 12/12/2019 14:25 PM

LOL - BSR - that's hilarious to Timespiral. AND yes, I meant BS. I have to say this full moon is messing with me badly today!!

MrsWalloped posted 12/12/2019 15:33 PM

I have to say this full moon is messing with me badly today!!

My husband once gave me a full moon (long story). It messed with me badly too.

Buck posted 12/12/2019 18:50 PM

My wife wanted to go to Michigan this summer to see where she was born and travel to a couple of places she lived. We flew there and rented a car. The rental's radio had Apple carplay. She thought that was the coolest thing since sliced bread and has told everyone she knows about it. She got a new car last year and she's bummed she didn't know what carplay was when she was picking options.

So I'm going to buy her a new head unit (you don't call them radios anymore...) and install it in her car.

LifeDestroyer posted 12/29/2019 19:21 PM

This thread needs to start up again.

How was everyone's Christmas?

forgettableDad posted 12/29/2019 19:44 PM

A crazy dance between Christmas gifts under the tree for the kids and lighting candles every evening for Hanukah

And work; we don't actually get time off for Christmas here.

Hopefully, we'll find the time next weekend to drive up to the snow (we just bought a new 4x4). It's been YEARS since we've properly seen snow.

Iamtrash posted 12/30/2019 06:45 AM

Along with all the obvious, I hate how deep of a grave I dug for myself.

BraveSirRobin posted 1/3/2020 19:07 PM

What is everyone doing for their WS for Christmas (if you celebrate it)
I had two Christmas gifts for him and one for New Year's, so now I can post without spoiling any surprises.

The first gift was a kintsugi bowl. I wrote an account of giving that to him in "Positive Reconciliation Stories" if anyone would like to read it.

The second was a vintage yellow blanket. Back when we were teenagers sneaking around in my parents' house, my future BH used to stay overnight in the guest room. There was a thick yellow blanket on the bed, which was essential because my parents kept the house at an energy-crisis-defying 55 degrees. We got up to all kinds of shenanigans under that blanket, and we also spent hours just snuggling and confiding in its warm, golden glow. So I hunted down an almost identical "new old stock" blanket on eBay, still in the original 1960s box. He opened it on Christmas morning and said, "It's a blanket!" And then his voice caught, and he said, "It's a yellow blanket." And then he hugged it and mouthed "Thank you" over the holiday noise.

Third gift. Last year, during TT, I revealed that I had given the OM cufflinks as a graduation present. They were silver, and I had them monogrammed with his initials. BH was extremely hurt. In our entire marriage, I had never given him cufflinks, mostly because he had inherited several pairs. He worried that OM still had them as a souvenir, and I have no way to set that fear at rest. Instead, I resolved to find or create cufflinks whose significance and intimacy would far outshine the ones I gave 30 years ago. And I finally found them: two tiny silver envelopes that open and close. I put miniature letters with a short handwritten phrase in each envelope. I then wrote BH a long love letter explaining the significance of the phrases I chose. Only he will ever know what they are and what they mean to us.

Last Christmas was genuinely awful. 2019 was almost entirely awful. But these few moments reclaimed Christmas for us. I'm so, so grateful to have been given another chance, and to have found gestures that show him how deeply I value it.

IHatePickingName posted 1/4/2020 09:20 AM

Using my newly acknowledged MH status to post on this thread 🤣 . Those gifts sound lovely and really thoughtful BSR. Because of my work in a school, i have the same days off as our kids, so adult time alone is rare. But there were two days i could put them in school childcare, but my work was opt in. So i signed them up and planned two days for us. The first day was a nordic spa day, with saunas, hot tubs, etc. He knew about that because it took a lot of talking for both of us to be ready for it, as it included a couples massage which ran the risk of being triggery for either of us. We went two days ago, and it was lovely. So relaxing, and it was so nice to have a day all about us where we were talking about something other than our issues. The massages were amazing and we felt wonderful after.

The second day was skiing, and he didnt know what was planned. He had never skied before but i have since i was a kid and our kids started last year and got 3 days of lessons for Christmas from my parents. I bought a lift ticket in advance, and then i had my 7 year old daughter help me prepare. I wrote a story book about our marriage and family, and she drew the pictures. The last page had a lift the flap box she made look like a present, and the ticket was inside. It said "let's try something new together".

After his mom visited us recently, he had expressed how he was struggling with feelings of disappointment because there had been no surprises for him like she usually had. He recognized he was feeling selfish and we explored his feelings, expectations and reality. It turned out to be a deeper issue about something else entirely, but i took the idea that he wanted the fun of unwrapping surprises and ran with it. I introduced my daughter into the world of gag gifts 🤣. We wrapped it 8 times, put it into a box, taped it everywhere, then wrapped it 4 more times with tape on every seam except one layer where we wrapped the whole layer in tape. Final layer looked normal so he wouldnt guess. She was so excited to have him open it, and he got a kick out of it when he did. I reminded him he wanted surprises. It was a fun moment. He read the book and looked very happy. Gave me a big hug and said thank you.

We went skiing yesterday. He posted about it on my post in reconciliation. Despite looking forward to it, by the time we arrived, he had adopted the attitude that he was going to fail and look ridiculous and wanted to give up after the first time down the bunny hill. He stood at the bottom and wouldnt respond about what he wanted to do next, before finally telling me he thought he was done. I snapped at him that he wasnt allowed to give up just because he fell the first time and to put his skis on and get on the magic carpet. He did, and the second run was much better. When we were stopped for a rest halfway down, i apologized for snapping and said his responses had reminded me of how he dealt with things in the past, which had upset me, but that it wasnt about skiing and i should have handled it better.

We took a break after that run and then did 3 more. By the end, he could mostly go down the bunny hill, stop and turn (one way at least) with much less falling. And he was enjoying it and trying hard. He ended up falling badly and hurting his knee so we ended early, but not before he had discovered he liked it and wanted to go again, although he is still sure he will never make it onto a bigger hill because it looks so intimidating 🤣🤣🤣

We went home early, and lay in bed cuddling a bit before i had to get the kids. His knee is mostly better today, but we both agree that next time, we ski first and spa the next day. 🤣 I would have done that except originally he wasnt off both days, and i had to book the spa in advance.

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