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In a bind

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Dave2019 posted 6/18/2019 09:29 AM

Where to start? I met a girl, we got married but before that happened I caught her texting her ex lover who was being really suggestive. She said it was him that was being forward but as the distance between them was so great I chalked it down to letting go.

Fast forward to 7 weeks into the marriage and I got suspicious about new clothing and wanting to know where I was at any give time so having been cheated on in the past I put a tape into the house while I was out, freaky behaviour I know.

I caught her on tape apparently giving someone a BJ, she said she was alone at the time. I am 100% certain that it was something really bad.

The tape is just two voices and a lot of whispering but its all about cleaning the floor, lying down, thank you etc and wiping her top. I confronted her and she denied it, I left but came back.

So obviously it has been driving me insane because the more you think about what could have happened the more you imagine far greater than the event.

So fast forward a few months and she denies it still, lots of arguments. Now her family think it is me that has the problem.

Even my Mom weighs in and says I should let it go and move on, I mean everyone but me.

We went to counselling, I was told by a shrink that because of her past abuse she will always be like this unless she has a couple of years of serious therapy. The shrink told me I was completely sane.

So we have ended up with more counselling and this time I was told not to come back and she was told to have more therapy.

It doesn't make any difference. I have told her I am leaving for good in the coming month and everyone thinks im an asshole and I must have problems.

I couldnt make it up if I tried.

Chrysalis123 posted 6/18/2019 09:44 AM

Welcome Dave. I'm sorry for what is happening in your life.

You do not have the power to control nor change her. I'm glad you have decided to walk away. She is not healthy nor emotionally available for a real relationship. Nor was she a good candidate for marriage counseling...she didn't want to change.

As for the other people...I call folks like that flying monkeys. (from the movie the Wizard of Oz) They do nasty work for other people. Just like these people are doing to you. You are not crazy for having boundaries.

Your best choice is to 180 the entire lot of them. Walk away with your head held high...but silently. Do not interact-just disappear. Block them on everything. Change your phone and email if needed.

Rip that bandaid off. Clean break.

While you are healing and learning to survive infidelity you may want to consider counseling just for you to discover your "whys".

[This message edited by Chrysalis123 at 9:45 AM, June 18th (Tuesday)]

bookworm19 posted 6/18/2019 09:45 AM

You are definitely not an asshole. You just hate being lied to and manipulated. If that makes you an asshole then here on SI are ten thousands just like you.
Giving someone a BJ after 7 weeks of marriage?! This really is all you need to know. Do what you have to do and move forward. Don't let other force and manipulate you in second-guessing yourself.
This

Now her family think it is me that has the problem.
Even my Mom weighs in and says I should let it go and move on, I mean everyone but me.

is her doing, god knows what she told her family.

She showed you who she is, believe her and move on. You really deserve better

[This message edited by bookworm19 at 9:46 AM, June 18th (Tuesday)]

WilliamM posted 6/18/2019 09:46 AM

I am so sorry that you are going through this. I do have a quick question. Did you show her on tape giving a guy a BJ? Did you tell her family what she did, or your family what she did? Did you tell them that you have video evidence of the act in question? I would also put a VAR in her car to get more evidence because I bet she is talking to the guy on her phone. Speaking of phone, have you gotten her phone to see what is on it? Checked her email? Text messages?

beenthereinco posted 6/18/2019 09:55 AM

Hi Dave,
Look I'm going to be blunt here. You caught her on tape giving a BJ to someone in your home after being married for 7 weeks? And people are telling you to let it go? And your counselor is telling you that this is what you have to look forward to in this marriage? I'm sorry my friend. My only advice would be to run as fast and as far away from this shit show as you can. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks of you. If they say your an asshole I would just tell them "Well I'm a single asshole". Her family probably doesn't want to deal with having her back as their problem. I'm not sure what to think of your Mother but my man you should get out of this right now.

Dave2019 posted 6/18/2019 10:06 AM

Thank you all for your good advice, it really helps.

Well I did show the family the tape and they say they can't hear a mans voice, it was like saying something was blue and they were screaming its red.

Luckily a few friends say they can definitely hear a mans voice which makes me feel less insane.

I just couldn't fathom why someone would do this after 7 weeks of marriage but I suspect that this has been going on way before, it couldnt be a one off random thing.

As for my Mom she has been privately messaging her. I have had a couple of bad previous relationships where the things they did were so outlandish that it was hard to believe and so my Mom things im just overly suspicious.

I did check her emails and phone, nothing out of the ordinary but as she works and spends a lot of time on her work computer I can imagine she would have used this to communicate.

As for bugging her car, I just cant do this, what if I saw she had been somewhere and I became paranoid and it was innocent or hard to prove, then I would be labelled controlling and insane again.

No I decided that I would leave, I think the tape is enough hard evidence, we can tie ourselves up in knots otherwise. It says something when you have to make a huge effort to be Colombo when you are the one that being destroyed here.

Kind of a catch 22 really

[This message edited by Dave2019 at 10:11 AM, June 18th (Tuesday)]

Cooley2here posted 6/18/2019 10:34 AM

It is ďfunnyĒ that when we are being gaslit we donít know it. We have people questioning our mental state.
My thinking is that if you keep knots in your stomach, if you are constantly unhappy, if you canít figure out what is going on, leave. Relationships should not be this hard. When you enter into any relationship you have to maneuver until both are comfortable with the way things are going. You donít sound like you are ever comfortable.
You have the absolute right to move on. No questions asked.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 7:19 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)]

The1stWife posted 6/18/2019 10:34 AM

It says something when you have to make a huge effort to be Colombo when you are the one that being destroyed here.

This says it all. So sorry for you. I think most people here will agree that she has no intention or w unity or desire to be faithful or monogamous

You should move on. Those that think otherwise can go live with her and her drama. You deserve better than that.

Stevesn posted 6/18/2019 10:35 AM

Hi Dave. Sorry you have had to find us.

What does your WW say about you and your relationship?
Does she tell you she loves you? Does she say she is all in on making this a good and happy marriage? Is she caring about your feelings? Has she said how she plans on making you feel safe in the relationship going forward?

Lastly have you asked her if she wants to be with other men and if she was not ready to be in a committed relationship? If she says she wants to be only with you Ask her to write to you what she believes it means to be in a committed relationship, a marriage, with another person.

Recovery of the relationship can happen but only if you both want it. I donít blame you not wanting it if you donít feel you can trust her. But there are many wayward spouses here who changed their lives and turned around how they approached their relationship and became devoted spouses.

You have every right to move on. But while you are following that path, watch her at the same time. If she does the work then perhaps you can see if you can make it work.

Now that would take more than just IC on her part. That would include confessing, taking a polygraph, telling family and friends that you were right and she hurt you, transparency of all devices and many other things.

Itís the rare WS that can do this, but it can be done.

Keep posting, weíre glad to help.

beenthereinco posted 6/18/2019 10:40 AM

What you are going through is the literal definition of the term "gaslighting" which gets used here quite a bit, sometimes wrongly, but essentially means that you are being told something is not true that you can see with your own eyes. It comes from a movie and play with the same name where a husband was trying to drive his wife insane by changing things in her environment and then telling her she was mistaken when she asked about it. This is a manipulation technique that a lot of Waywards use including your WW and it looks like her family as well.

My suspicion is that he family knows exactly what kind of person she is but they just want you to deal with it so they don't have to be burdened by her. I know that this is hard but don't play the game. You know what is true. That's all that matters. Do not tie yourself up in knots trying to come up with definitive evidence that will finally convince them. The only one you need to satisfy is yourself and if you are sure of what you heard just move forward with that certainty. Good luck to you.

allusions posted 6/18/2019 10:40 AM

You say you caught her on tape. Do you mean it was an audio recording and not a video recording?

So you have a recording of her and someone else. Does everyone agree there were two voices? Some are saying it's a woman and a man, some are saying it's two women? Or are they saying it's one voice and she's talking to herself???? Here's the thing, she said she was alone, so whether it's a male's voice or a female's, she is lying to you. It's also possible she is having an affair with a woman.

There's nothing wrong with walking away from a toxic marriage.

Tigersrule77 posted 6/18/2019 11:10 AM

If YOU are sure that what you are doing is right, then that is all you need. Of course her family is telling you that you are wrong. That is to be expected.

I would agree that you are doing the right thing.

Dave2019 posted 6/18/2019 11:14 AM

I think Gaslighting is the best definition there is for this. I also agree that I think her family probably know or a couple of them and dont want to deal with it.

It was an audio tape and she even tried to mimic the mans voice to say it was hers but it was a pathetic attempt, luckily we have different vocal chords!

Oh the family say there is no mans voice and it is hers and that she was talking to herself.

She also took a lie detector test and she took Xanax before it, she passed that, she said she only took 1/2 a tablet. Then she had a hypnosis session and funnily enough her version of the story under that was completely different to the tape.

I think Gas lighting is the term here, being manipulated to believe otherwise.

Think of that ridiculous song by Shaggy 'It wasnt me', where he is cheating on his girlfriend and she walks in to find them together and he still claims to be innocent.

I do suspect someone, the other party and funnily enough I dropped her off at a function where she was going to drive there alone and I saw his car on the way back on the same street and him in a diner, it was late and so I stopped nearby and he sloped out on his own. A coincidence maybe but whose to know.

Stevesn posted 6/18/2019 11:39 AM

Per my other post, what is she saying she wants... what does she say about your relationship?

Dave2019 posted 6/18/2019 11:43 AM

Oh she says she wants to forget about the whole thing and move on and be in a happy relstionship, start from scratch and never bring it up again.

She says she loves me deeply etc.

Cooley2here posted 6/18/2019 12:00 PM

Narcissistís response:

That didnít happen
And if it did, it wasnít that bad
And if it was, thatís not a big deal
And if it is, thatís not my fault
And if it was, I didnít mean it
And if I did, you deserved it.

I would love to give credit to who wrote this.

Stevesn posted 6/18/2019 13:37 PM

Honestly, if you are willing to truly work on this relationship, if she comes clean and admits her infidelities, then you could say something like this to her:

ďI love you and am in love with you, but wonít live life being taken for a fool by the woman I love. If you truly love me and want to spend your life only with me Iím willing to work on this relationship, but not one where we simply forget the past and move on with nothing changed.

So that means you actually need to work to win me back. And that starts with you telling me the truth of what you have done.

I will promise to work thru this with you if you do. But I know what I know. And itís cruel the way you have tried to make me feel crazy. So if you want to save this relationship, The only way to do it is to tell me the truth about what you did and who you did it with. If you want a life where you constantly do bad things and then hide them from your spouse, then that wonít be a life with me.

If you donít tell me, I am assuming I am not worth it to you to admit what you did and begin to lead an honest life. And if that is the case, Iíll work to move on from this relationship.

That breaks my heart as I truly love you, want a committed faithful relationship with you, but will not constantly be made a fool of because you canít help from having emotional and physical relationships with other men.

It is your choice. If you choose to actually do the work to repair this relationship and find a way to be together the next 40-50 years, then it will be a lot of hard work with a lot of steps you wonít like. But a cheater who realizes that what their poor choices are causing them to lose can change who they are if they really want it.

The ball is in your court. If I donít hear differently from you then I wonít discuss this again, Iíll just move forward with the process I have already started to end the M you have destroyed. The next step is yours. Think carefully before you make it. ď


Then leave it be. Work with your own IC to get thru the pin she has caused you and continue the process to D until you hear otherwise from her.

Communication is always the key for me. No bullshit. Just state what you need and if you canít get it move on toward finding someone who wonít play these games.

Good luck.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 1:47 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)]

Dave2019 posted 6/18/2019 13:58 PM

Thank You to everyone for your helpful posts, this site was a blessing to be honest.

To answer the last post, I did tell her just as you said, in a nice way that I would leave, I cant start afresh until you tell me the truth and told her I loved her and was willing to make it work if she put in the effort to tell me and also change.

Obviously it started out as arguments and then after time it got easier to say these things, like a softer ultimatum.

Sadly she still tries to convince me otherwise with pressure from her family and my own to let it go but honestly who would?

So I will leave, it is obvious like the excellent narcissist post above it that you cant reason with someone not willing to be honest.

To be honest would also mean revealing your guilt and manipulative nature to try and change things.

She has invested heavily in the lie now.

So with that in mind I will leave and get my self respect back.

Odonna posted 6/18/2019 14:06 PM

I truly understand your decision not to dig more and to leave and work on yourself. I am not going to advocate otherwise. But just for your own sanity, it might make sense to have the audiotape enhanced; I don't think it is very expensive. That way you have whatever proof you need for your own family (hers does not matter as you will be divorcing), so that the gaslighting/denial on your side will stop.

All the best to you!

survrus posted 6/18/2019 15:26 PM

Look into getting an annulment, easier than a divorce perhaps.

Do you know the identity of the potential OM.

How much do you know about your WWs past?

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