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Coming to terms with reality

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Unbroken78 posted 5/8/2019 23:37 PM

What she is telling you is not what she told him.

Which version of her do you want to believe is true?

People are honest when they think you can't see them.

That's who she is.

Believe her when she thinks you can't see her...or believe her when she knows you will see and hear her. One is the true person. One is a lie.

weddingbelle posted 5/8/2019 23:55 PM

So sorry you're here. Lots of good info for you, but mostly I have to focus on the OM. Even if he's a poacher, the fact is she had agency. She chose to cheat. Don't waste so much energy on him. Lay blame and put your energy where it needs to be right now, on her. Good luck. (((HUGS)))

ChamomileTea posted 5/9/2019 00:08 AM

I love her, itís hard to comprehend she would do this or she had it in her too,

I know she knew what she was doing,
I feel like option B
But how do I get back what is lost and can I help her or is it too far gone.

What do I do now, where does one go from here, I donít want a divorce I want to forgive and start again.
How do I do that is it Evan possible.
Does she still love me or only need me.

What does she need to do to fix this.

She needs to repair the character deficit which allowed her to cheat, and she needs to maintain that repair. One of my favorite posters, Sisoon, often reminds us that the betrayed party must heal themselves, and the cheater... must heal themselves. There has to be room for that. And it's incumbency must be the defining characteristic of recovery. We can't heal anybody else. We can't control anybody else. But we absolutely CAN do those things for ourselves.

A character deficit, for our purposes, can be described as 'when stated values do not reflect actions'. A person says they subscribe to a specific belief, like monogamy or honesty, yet they behave a different way. Why?

A cheater's "why" isn't about any external influence, it's about not being able to live their values. It's about what's inside them which allowed them to rationalize their way to perfidy. It's internal. We call that discovery "doing the work", finding "the why" and changing the mindset which allowed it.

Your "work" is different. Your work is to evaluate the changes and see if it's enough. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it isn't. But "your work" demands a thorough investigation of your own wants, needs, and tolerance. It demands appropriate boundaries and a consistent level of human respect. Your work requires compassion, but that compassion starts with YOU. You can't extend compassion and empathy until you've developed it for yourself.

I'm not sure if that sounds a bit cryptic at this point in your recovery. But the point is that we have to be there for ourselves before we can be there for others. Sometimes, that means we have to take a step back, look at the situation clinically, and decide if we're where we really want to be. Owning your choice becomes super important as time goes by.

RocketRaccoon posted 5/9/2019 02:35 AM


Firstly, do not wait for your WW to make decisions. You have to take control. Don't be so quick to R, as you may not have the all the information nor the emotional stability to make an informed decision. Don't rely on Hope, as it can be a mirage. Rely on tangible actions.

Second, have you kept all the evidence of the A? I do hope so, as your WWs AP has gone on the offensive, and wants to destroy you and your WWs reputations to preserve his. You will need to keep the evidence for your own defense. You will need a lawyer to maximize the effects of the evidence. DO NOT dispose of the evidence!

Next, does your WW realise how precious a gift she is getting, that you are willing to consider R? Does she realise that not many get this chance (FYI, I don't give second chances for stuff like this, but to each their own). She has to win you back. She has to make you feel safe with her. She has to do all the work to heal herself, and assist in your healing also. The burden of doing most of the work falls on the wayward.

It will be very tempting to rugsweep this, as it will seem to be the easiest solution. Yuo want to quickly forgive, because you want things to be back as they were. Sorry to burst your bubble, but they will NEVER get back to the way it was. The A and your WWs lies have already changed the dynamics in the M. If you agree to rugsweep the A, then you are showing her that she can do it again, and suffer no consequences.

There is also a keen sense of being a Knight in Shining Armour. You want to sweep in and protect the damsel in distress. Sorry, but the damsel put herself into her own distress.

She consciously chose to have an affair. It was not an accident nor a mistake. Affairs are a process that takes time and conscious planning.

She had to decide not to talk to you, then she had to decide that she talks to another guy instead of another woman.

She then decides that she will comfort him, and be intimate with him. In fact, getting to perform the act itself takes a whole load of conscious decisions, and your WW could have stopped at any time before that.

She made the conscious decision to go sleep with him again, just 'to be sure' (this boggles the mind, and I don't believe that it was only 2 times. Dig for more info, and you will probably find out it was a heck of a lot more times).

She made the conscious decision to break your wedding vows.

She made a conscious decision to lie to you about the nature of her relationship with her AP.

I could go on and on and list the conscious choices that your WW would have to make to get to the point of sleeping with her AP, but it would take too long. This was just a very brief illustration of the conscious steps it takes for someone to embark on an A.

So, I would caution you to jump straight into R, but consider all options and scenarios first.

All in all, don;t believe everything she says is 100% truth. WS are not able to tell 100% truth, and there will be a lot more that is undiscovered by you. My advice, dig more. I would be surprised if nothing turns up....

GoldenR posted 5/9/2019 03:12 AM

Ok...looks like you're coming to terms with her responsibility in all this. That's good.

Sounds like she's telling you that the PA went on for a week or so. Also sounds like you're getting TT. Cheaters are like drunk drivers: "How many beers did you have tonight?" And they all say TWO. Cheaters are the same, they either had sex once or twice. Maybe it's true, but right now, you have absolutely no reason to trust anything she says. And don't overlook the fact that she was in an EA long before she was in a PA.

Now I will tell you what I tell almost every BH that i interact with that is leaning towards R...

She didn't just cheat on you. She made a series of choices, a LOT of them, against you:

- every time she thought of him

- every time she emailed him

- every time she texted him

- every time she called him

- every time she contacted him thru social media

- every time she looked at his social media

- every time she talked to him

- every time she got dressed with him in mind

- every time she ate with him

- every time she laughed with him

- every time she touched him

- every time she flirted with him

- every time she looked at him

- every time she kissed him

- every time she had sex with him

Add all those up.... you're probably in the thousands.
All of those choices against you, and she never once "woke up" on her own, regretting what she was doing to you?

And now she feels used? And she tells you this? So, what, she's upset bc she wants him to love her? And again, she's letting you know this. She's mourning the loss of her AP right in front of you, and that my friend is bullshit. So if he did love her, then what? She would have left you?

Bc that's sure what it looks like from over here.

Brother, her head is still up her ass and right now she's really not R material.


File. Have her served. And tell her she has until it's final to convince you that you're not Plan B and to call it off. If she gives no effort, she's not worth it to stay with her.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 3:21 AM, May 9th (Thursday)]

Atrowspark posted 5/9/2019 03:20 AM

The mistake you made 6 months before your wife admitted to sex with OM and the mistake you are making right now is that you have decided on reconciliation before 1) making sure you have the whole story 2) making sure your wife is truly remorseful. At a minimum you need that before deciding between divorce and reconciliation.

spaceimpact posted 5/9/2019 03:50 AM

No Soliciting

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:18 AM, May 9th (Thursday)]

spaceimpact posted 5/9/2019 03:54 AM

No Soliciting

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:18 AM, May 9th (Thursday)]

Butforthegrace posted 5/9/2019 06:20 AM

But how do I get back what is lost and can I help her or is it too far gone.

What do I do now, where does one go from here, I donít want a divorce I want to forgive and start again.

This is the koan that every newly minted BH must grapple with. "How do I get back what is lost?"

The flaw in this question is a failure to acknowledge the reality. What you think you lost didn't exist in real life. What you thought you had was a union of two partners equally committed and equally yoked. That was a figment of your imagination. The reality was a wife who would make hundreds, possibly thousands of decisions to betray you in an awful way, while lying to you about it, hiding it from you, etc. You can't "get back" what you think you lost, because you never had it to begin with. What you're trying to "get back" is an illusion that did not exist in real life.

Go to The Healing Library (yellow box, top left of page) and read about The 180. This is a technique recommended to newly minted BH's. It is not a form of punishment for your WW, nor is it a gambit to try to get her to act a certain way.

Rather, it is a method for you to create psychic space so that you can come to grips with your reality. I agree with others that, while implementing the 180, you exercise, eat right, etc. The point is to allow yourself that psychological "deep breath" so that you can comprehend the magnitude of what you have done, see her for who she really is, and then, in light of that reality, find your heart's truth.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 7:23 AM, May 9th (Thursday)]

Chaos posted 5/9/2019 06:42 AM

Going to echo what others have said.

In no particular order:

* Get tested for STDs
* Consult an attorney [know your options]
* Gather your proof and keep a copy in a secure place
* Document what you know and have proof of - make your own timeline of events because memories become fuzzy after a while [I did this and boy did it come in handy]
* Inform the OBS [I didn't on DDay1 and it was the biggest mistake I ever made. Hence DDay2 & 3]
* Do not give warning you are going to inform OBS
* Realize this is NOT your fault. YOU had nothing to do with the decisions of others
* Be kind to yourself.

bobdobalina posted 5/9/2019 06:45 AM

Hi uwdm this is a hell of kick in the guts and so much head fog it's hard to think straight
I was wondering what would have been the outcome if the other guy did have feelings for her instead of discarding your wife like a used tissue. Would she have dumped you but now she's come back to Mr security
All the best to you

waitedwaytoolong posted 5/9/2019 07:33 AM

Your wife has lied to you every step of the way. Now her AP is making claims and has taken steps to have authorities involved. I donít know what they are, but I wouldnít be so fast to just listen to her side of the story

There could be truth in what he is saying if her is willing to make claims and possibly go under oath.

ramius posted 5/9/2019 10:58 AM

They drank they smoked, they hug and then what ever happened happened, she said she felt guilty but went back the next week to see if there was a physical attraction as she was emotionally attracted to him again it happened.

Yea, sounds like she felt super guilty. Thatís why she went back to him. Cause the guilt was so prevalent.

Unwillingdoormat posted 5/9/2019 11:36 AM

Thank you all for you comments.
I read something at the beginning when I first found out on the net.
They call it monkey branching, in my gut and heart I believe this term to be true with my situation.
I think she was looking for something better but scared to let go of what she had, and when the branch she grabbed turned out to be a POS and she knew he wouldnít take the whole package including the kids she held onto the only thing that was secure which was me.

I canít know what was truth from fiction,
And know love canít fix this. Nor can I fix her.
She has lost the respect of friends and family thatís on her.she has taken the fundamentals away from our lives.

How does one know when the WW is being honest and is willing to have remorse and fix the situation, not for the situation but for the marriage.

fareast posted 5/9/2019 11:46 AM

Only her actions, not her words, consistently over time will give you the answer to that question. Be vigilant. Is she in IC? Is she being transparent with her phone and devices? Has she done a no contact letter? Has she written you a detailed timeline of her A? These are somethings you can expect as a minimum of a remorseful spouse. Overall, it is the ability to develop empathy for the pain she has caused you, rather that wallowing in her own shame or guilt. Good luck.

GoldenR posted 5/9/2019 15:15 PM

How does one know when the WW is being honest and is willing to have remorse and fix the situation, not for the situation but for the marriage.

Being that you can't believe anything out of her mouth right now, there's only one true way: Polygraph

ramius posted 5/9/2019 15:40 PM


And itís her reaction to your demand for a polygraph that is important also. If she jumps at the chance to take it to put your fears at rest, thatís a good sign.

But on the other hand if she is reticent, if she comes up with excuses not to, then that tells you something else.

numb&dumb posted 5/9/2019 15:59 PM

How does one know when the WW is being honest and is willing to have remorse and fix the situation, not for the situation but for the marriage.

What what she does and question everythng she says. If words and actions match then fine. If she talks one way, " I will do whatever I can to make this up to you." The later refuses to do something you asked her to do . . .well then you stop believing the words.

Have you thought about IC for yourself ? Look man your brain is to jumbled to begin to work on your M right now. You need time to organize your thoughts. IC is great like that.

Also generally most of us here will counsel you to not do MC until both of you are in a much more stable place. Time is something you have in abundance.

Right now I think the thing that likely hurts the most is that she basically abandoned you when you were at a low point. After your brothers passing she seeks out an affair ? What about supporting her husband at home? Why find some lowlife scumbag to help him with his problems ?

She needs IC to figure out why she lacked the character and integrity that allowed her to make the decisions to cheat.

Also FWIW, if you have not done so I would inform OMW about his affair with your W. Don't do it out of revenge. If it were you, you'd hope someone would tell you, right ? Expose him for wet fart of human turd that he is.

Sorry you are here, but I am glad you found us. A lot of wisdom and support to be found here. Keep reading and posting. It really does help.

Odonna posted 5/9/2019 16:16 PM


One good way for you to learn what a remorseful WS looks like - and for her to learn what she needs to do -- is to download and read the free pdf on-line by Linda McDonald entitled "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair." It is short and to the point. I recommend this a lot because it is a clear road-map for waywards who want to be "re-builders" and save their marriages. Both of you read it and talk multiple times about it as you go through it. You will find our fairly quickly if your WW can wake up and do this.

4gotenSpouse posted 5/9/2019 17:10 PM

Does this sound familiar! The only difference was my husbandís ďgood friendĒ is Mary Poppins. I do know what it feels like to have a gut feeling that thereís more to it, despite what they are telling you. Iím still looking to find that smoking gun myself because I know itís there. (Itís been since October) My best advise to you is focus on your kids and yourself. One day at a time! Give yourself time to think and figure out what you want. In my case, we still live together and are working to repair whatís left but, I canít bring myself to trust after being betrayed. I really donít think I will ever be the same. We all have choices in life that we must be accountable for. Some are forgiven and others just might be to great. Iím still living with my husband after the big reveal but, I just canít say what will happen. My children are out of high school so, that aspect is different and living in a smaller community can be a living hell after something like this. SOO, maybe this will help.
Everyday I try to remind myself for the small things I have to be proud of and thankful for, LOL( This sounds like Iím Mary Poppins herself but, I definitely have a sailorís mouth) That I may be wounded but, I am a lovable person with many qualities to share with another. That other could be another friend, family or just someone in need. It needs to be genuine! I refuse to feel sorry for myself....shit happens but, I will NOT be someoneís second! I am in my late 40ís, just finished my spring semester in college and plan to keep plowing ahead. DIG DEEP you owe that to yourself!

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