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"It wasn't the whole time!" defense - an interpretive dance

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OptionedOut posted 4/19/2019 09:28 AM

"It wasn't the whole time! It wasn't like we didn't have good times together, right? And I chose YOU to spend the rest of my life with."

Okay, let's look at it this way:

Jimmy goes to church practically every Sunday. He's a little league coach.

Jimmy has also taken part in 5 home invasions in 10 years. But it was only 5! And it wasnít the whole time. He only beat the homeowners for about 10 minutes the entire time he was there, which wasnít more than thirty minutes! So thatís just 2.5 hours in 10 years!

And Jimmy admits he may have crossed the line, but he didn't KILL the homeowners because that was a line Jimmy wouldn't cross. Jimmy has boundaries!

Whudt? The homeowners had boundaries, too? But see, Jimmy here was raised badly. Had a poor home life. The homeowners? They had it good. Jimmy was just bringing them down to his level.

Can't you feel Jimmy's pain?

I can totally see how the courts would understand poor Jimmy. He was a good person who made a few bad decisions.

It wasn't the whole time in 10 years. Hasn't Jimmy spent more time being good than bad? Can't you, the jury, see that once Jimmy was caught, that he apologized? He repents! That 30 days in jail really shaped him up. He's a new man and promises to never do it again. He completely understands the pain he has caused. He just wants you to know it wasn't the whole time.

Does that excuse work for you, the homeowner whom Jimmy beat? Doesn't it make ALL the sense? Come on! Invite him over for dinner. Let bygones be bygones!

**I know this sounds snarky and lame. But how does "But... but, it wasn't the whole time!" defense sound, BSs?

WS, please. Before you utter this defense, stop. Think. Don't set your recovery back.

max2018 posted 4/19/2019 09:33 AM

Same as

" I was a good spouse except for the cheating"

It's like saying that Ariel Castro was a good man aside of the kidnapping thing

[This message edited by max2018 at 9:34 AM, April 19th (Friday)]

HoplesslyBlind posted 4/19/2019 09:48 AM

Poor, Jimmy! If those homeowners didn't have such nice looking houses, he would have never been tempted. Hell, the back door was even unlocked. He was probably even asking himself, " How did I end up in here? It just happened, I guess."

In front of the Judge, he was thinking to himself, "If he let's me off with a slap on the hand, I won't ever have to talk about it again and I can pretend nothing ever happened."

BUT IT WASN'T THE WHOLE TIME!!! Hey, kill someone in cold blood once and you are a murderer for life.

The lengths to which some waywards go to justify/excuse/minimize is astounding.

Good analogy OPTIONEDOUT.

ETA:

And I chose YOU to spend the rest of my life with.

Oh my God! Aren't you the lucky princess? Or did you just win the boobie prize?

[This message edited by HoplesslyBlind at 9:54 AM, April 19th (Friday)]

steadychevy posted 4/19/2019 10:06 AM

My WW actually said something similar. She never cheated on her taxes, never stole anything, even unknowingly, from her employer (actually she did when she fucked him on company time)and she did a lot of good stuff - volunteering and the like.

My first counsellor said that my WW chose me. Well lucky, lucky me. We had a discussion about that where I pointed out to him that she, in fact, unchose me. I chose her when I asked her to marry me and when we wed and she, supposedly, chose me at the same time. She wasn't going to leave me when she was fucking him so I guess she chose to stay with me and live the life while fucking him on the side. Lucky me all over again.

ramius posted 4/19/2019 10:19 AM

My first counsellor said that my WW chose me. Well lucky, lucky me.

Ah yes. The I chose you line. Favorite of WS and therapists.

And it is bullshit.

Cheaters chose themselves. Their feelings. Their wants. What is best for them, in any given moment.

Itís the same solipsistic thought process the defines their entire mentality, just applied differently depending on the desired outcome.

Want some feels.....screw somebody.
Got caught and want to keep you lifestyle.....ĒI chose you.Ē

Svon posted 4/19/2019 10:34 AM

While I agree with the premise that infidelity is an assault to the betrayed spouse, I disagree with the implication that it is the immoral equivalent to a violent physical attack. The healthy human species are not supposed to attack, rape, or kill their own. I would argue no species has and innate desire for such behavior, but a biological scientist somewhere might prove me wrong. That being said, humans do not. However, humans do have the innate need for intimacy and sex. Itís how our population survives without going extinct. Monogamy and marriage are social concepts designed to create monetary safety. Donít get me wrong, I am all for this social constraint, but I do not think it marries well with our biological programming. It takes work and commitment to fight urges we may have, be it taking off when the passion dies, when arguments ensue, and yes.. fighting the urge to act on our attractions to others which is normal and uncontrollable. We will find others attractive. The weak give in. In my opinion, this explains the high rate of infidelity and divorce(especially after kids are gone and monetary security is not needed). Therefore, in my opinion cheaters are simply weak individuals that can not fight natural instincts and urges. They lack the moral discipline to do so. I am in no way defending their behavior, but equating the inability to walk away from an innate Desire for intimacy when itís inappropriate is a far cry from physically assaulting, raping, or murdering a fellow human. Those violent desires are not a biological make up of humans unless threatened. Perhaps this is why infidelity is not a criminal offense. Whether we like it or not, affairs are two consenting people seeking the pleasure that the human species is designed to seek. Itís the social and Moral norms the cheaters are ignoring. Wrong, pathetic, and weak.. yes..:but also human.

Marz posted 4/19/2019 10:38 AM

My first counsellor said that my WW chose me.

That MC was only interested in saving the marriage no matter what the cost was to you.

OwningItNow posted 4/19/2019 11:08 AM

It's true, Svon. This is also the reason that they feel they did not take anything from the BS, provided they didn't spend money or whatever. There is some truth in that. The BS is physically and financially fine, and the emotional toll is seen as somewhat under one's own control. When you explain the lost focus, the anxiety and depression, the inability to sleep, people see all that as akin to any of life's problems that people endure.

These are all the reasons that society will resist the idea that infidelity is a crime. The attack is only felt by the betrayed, invisible to the rest of society.

max2018 posted 4/19/2019 11:19 AM

The BS is physically and financially fine,

Except when the poor BSs get an std or gets killed by a crazy AP or loses thousands due spend it on the AP - a WH on dr Phil let his family go under financial strain while spending all his on hookers -

Other than that they are fine

Rideitout posted 4/19/2019 11:30 AM

equating the inability to walk away from an innate Desire for intimacy when itís inappropriate is a far cry from physically assaulting, raping, or murdering a fellow human. Those violent desires are not a biological make up of humans unless threatened. Perhaps this is why infidelity is not a criminal offense. Whether we like it or not, affairs are two consenting people seeking the pleasure that the human species is designed to seek. Itís the social and Moral norms the cheaters are ignoring. Wrong, pathetic, and weak.. yes..:but also human.

If human history tells us anything it's that the desire to kill/fight/rape/etc is an innate human drive just like the drive for sex is. Societies that NEVER knew of one another, totally isolated for 1000's of years, guess what? They were all out murdering/raping/fighting with one another. We are a violent species, we live in a time when violence is (thankfully) very, very rare, but to claim that violence isn't part of our makeup is, IMHO, ignoring history. We are a predator, and predators occasionally turn on one another; it's visible in just about any social predatory species.

The desire to murder my W's AP is just as natural as his desire to get in my W's pants. It's just that we're expected to NOT succumb to our instincts and, if we do, there are grave consequences for it. But the moment you "turn off" the higher functions of the brain, look at what happens.. The easiest example of this is drinking, look at how people behave when their left with less higher function controls; fighting, killing, raping, and f**king. That's what we're built to do.

We can overcome these urges, and, I'm pretty convinced that we'll "overcome" the urge for sex at some point in the future too, not by hiding from it (as we have the urge to kill), but by subverting it to other things (VR sex, for example).

But saying we're a monogamous and peaceful species by design is just, IMHO, indefensible. We're not either.

hikingout posted 4/19/2019 11:36 AM

I agree with the premise of the original post. It does not matter what the crime is, once it's been committed then there is no changing that it happened.

I will say that my H said that because there were so many good years that was a big factor in his decision to try and reconcile. I do believe that has served us in that capacity. I also do think that it's served me in that I do know what a good marriage looks like. So, while I do not think it detracts from the crime itself, it has helped facilitate some of the aftermath of it.


BeingheldbyJesus posted 4/19/2019 11:59 AM

And this is why I don't get the whole FWS thing. If you are liar, you are a liar. An alcoholic is always and alcoholic. You can't undue adultery so you are always an adulterer.... How can you be a former wayward? If they could cheat once, they can cheat again.... They've shown that the vows did not mean the same to them.

I love your analogy!

My WS said, "We only had sex 8 times on 2 trips." Of course, it was also, "Just sex." Yep, now I know what it means to him....

It is definitely as immoral as a physical attack! My life was put in danger. I now have slept with all of those people she and her husband have slept with. I feel like I was raped by all of them because I was not told and it was forced on me. My body has undergone physical changes because of his infidelity. My stomach is always upset.

Svon, I feel you are making excuses. You seem to say that it is really hard to stay faithful. I'm a Christian and I believe God made us and He put the desires in us not to make it hard for us. He gave us boundaries and I don't think He did so thinking it would be too hard on us. I don't fight urges to have sex with other men who I find attractive. Before my WH's A, I didn't imagine having sex with other men I found attractive. Now I do because I feel like there must be something better out there for me. I would never act on that though and I am not having to restrain myself. It's just a boundary I won't cross. They know the consequences to their spouses. They know their spouses will be hurt yet they do it anyway. My WH had anger and resentment towards me because I wasn't giving him ego kibbles for his HUGE ugly ego. He threw away what was special between us- we were first and onlies. It was an assault to me. He stabbed me in the back and let her do the same to me.

OptionedOut posted 4/19/2019 12:14 PM

Hopelessly Blind - I won! I won! Yes! I won the genuine imitation committed spouse award!
Because when there was a choice between me and OW? It was her EVERY time. But I get the REAL prize! I get to clean the house, help pay the bills, take care of him when he's sick, old... And OW got to enjoy his company without a single bit of responsibility and eat and be entertained on money from our bank account.
I also won a $25 copay visit to the doctor to test for STDs and ALL the joy and embarrassment that goes with it, countless sleepless nights, a prescription for Xanax, a PTSD diagnosis, and SO much more!

Sarcasm may or may not be my problem today. HA!

[This message edited by OptionedOut at 12:39 PM, April 19th (Friday)]

NotTheManIwas posted 4/19/2019 12:23 PM

OptionedOut, I think I love you. Thank you for this priceless piece of snarkyness. It really hit the spot.

<sigh> (now I'm satisfied)

OptionedOut posted 4/19/2019 12:38 PM

Svon,

Okay, so if infidelity were a crime, are we saying that WSs wouldn't cheat?

I could come up with another story with something that isn't illegal and would still show the same moral of the story.

OptionedOut posted 4/19/2019 12:57 PM

Being Held By Jesus

Yep. But it's not a crime to steal years of your life and be kept in the dark about the most important decision you've ever made - who to spend the rest of your life with. The information you needed to make that informed decision was taken away from you by the deceit and lies. The information you needed to protect your physical health was also taken from you.

But you totally understand that he had to get his needs met, right? And he didn't want to hurt you, so that is why he lied. You wouldn't approve or understand. And hey, it wasn't like he was screwing EVERYONE. Or that he was screwing them ALL the time.

So, when you wreck the car? You drove it without wrecking it all the time. When you run up the credit card? It's not like you buy new outfits, shoes, and computers ALL the time. When you have to pick him up from the airport and you don't? It's not like you haven't picked him up before.

Hugs.

And I hope my snarkitude isn't upsetting. I just find the audacity and lame excuses some cheaters make as much sense as asking a fish tto climb a tree.

OuttaCoffee posted 4/19/2019 15:19 PM

A person can plan ahead for their future and education. Go to school and study the various aspects of civil engineering like strength of materials and statics. They can graduate near the top of their class and land that perfect job in a well respected firm. In that firm they spend and commit years of their life to the art and science of building bridges. And after some more time and effort theyíre finally known by all to be a bridge builder.
You f*** one goat...

Makesmewannapuke posted 4/19/2019 15:59 PM

Was the goat single?

Svon posted 4/19/2019 20:04 PM

Rideitout, I guess you skipped the part where I wrote humans are innately only violent when threatened. I should have added perceived to be threatened as well. Germans were led by an evil man to perceive Jews as threatening. Look how that turned out. . The AP threatened your emotional safety so yes, your innate sense of mad rage was biologically normal as were all the moments in history that you claim
I discounted. That being said, no one will convince me that intimacy and sex is not biologically driven. If I am at a bar I can see an attractive man and not act. That does not mean I do not find him attractive. Thatís a biological process. I stated the cheater is weak and canít say ďnoĒ to such desires. I do not believe monogamy comes naturally to humans. Itís a choice that only the strong and moral character can achieve. For the poster who mentioned being a Christian, look through history, monogamy was not practiced. I am happy you find comfort in your faith, but your fairy tale has no science to back it up. The law does not put Cheaters behind bars for being pathetically weak to their biological drives. And no, I do not believe making cheating illegal would make one stronger to fight that urge. And NO, I am not making excuses for any cheaters. I have stated they are embarrassingly and pathetically weak, my husband included. I just donít think they rise to the evil equivalents or rapists and murders.

fareast posted 4/19/2019 20:09 PM

OuttaCoffee:

Thank you! TGIF to you.

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