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The Sequel

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Shockedmom posted 3/31/2019 20:00 PM

Glad you have decided to see an attorney and prepare yourself before the confrontation. I highly recommend writing out a list of points you want to discuss and record the conversation. Emotions may run hot and things may get out of control or you may just not remember everything. Being able to refer back to an accurate record will help. You might want to have your therapist outline a strategy for the confrontation given her previous suicide/love bombing.

Good luck and try to take care of yourself.

Crushed7 posted 3/31/2019 20:15 PM

Duplicate post

[This message edited by Crushed7 at 10:52 PM, March 31st (Sunday)]

Crushed7 posted 3/31/2019 20:28 PM

skyrun11, just know that we are all pulling for you.

This.

The situation you are in is awful and we'd like to see you avoid anymore pain along with lining you up to be the best possible model for your kids.

Many of the manipulative strategies have come out in the past-suicide,love bomb, etc.

While your head is spinning from the most recent information, use this to gain some clarity and remind yourself who you are dealing with.

I am going to try to get into a lawyer before I confront her.

On the confrontation front -- ask yourself what you hope to gain. You know she has cheated in the past, that she is at it again, that she lies/deceives and that she is a manipulator. The most likely outcome is that she resorts to lying and manipulating.

However, for some of us, we felt that we needed to give it one last attempt and see for ourselves whether there was any hope at all. Unfortunately, that usually leads to being manipulated again because we see tears, hear promises, accept excuses, etc. because we weren't prepared for what was coming our way. Since you have an idea of what would be ahead, so if you really want to try, then please stick to just this -- "I know you aren't being faithful and I thought I'd give you one chance to come fully clean." Full stop. That is all you need to say.

If you go this path, listen carefully to what she says and what her attitude is. Most likely, you'll get a denial (I don't know what you are talking about) or an attempt to assess what you know in order to tailor a response (What do you know/what did you see?). Other variations exist -- a minimal admission if she can guess what you saw, an attack (Have you been invading my privacy?), blameshifting (I told that that I needed you to put in more effort, so I'm justified in weighing my options), etc. You could even get a flood of tears if she really believes that she is caught and senses that you're now resistant to her ability to manipulate you in other ways. In each of these scenarios, what you are seeing is the same lying and manipulation that she has used for quite some time. If you do go down this path, please don't fall for revealing what you know, how you found out or what you plan to do -- she should do ALL the talking. And you should be ready to immediately put your plans into action because she'll now know that she has lost control and that she doesn't have much time to try to get in front of the situation.

Personally, I think you already know everything you need to. You can see how she has manipulated you into staying and how she has been lying/deceiving you about not being in an affair. It's time for action.

I strongly advise you to buy a VAR, voice activated recorder.

Being falsely accused of domestic violence is absolutely a real thing and you should take steps to ensure you don't fall into a trap around getting sucked in to physical contact or get put into a situation where your WS can make things up. That is why a VAR or video camera can be great tools. However, each state has its own laws, especially if the other party is unaware of the presence of a recording device or, in some cases, hasn't given consent to the recording, so you'll want to make sure you get an attorney's input. You'll also want that advice to understand what you could/couldn't use it for (e.g. it could be a great way to remember what was said and what happened, but, depending on the laws, it might be a crime if you disclosed it to anyone).

Sending you strength. This is really tough stuff, but you are taking the right steps.

Ponus18 posted 3/31/2019 21:58 PM

Youíre in good company here, unfortunately. My xWW was a huge serial cheater. I went through a phony rugsweeping reconciliation when I found out about #1, also through a text message I uncovered. I didnít know about SI so then suffered through 8 years of worrying, following her, spying, etc. it was awful. Only to learn that she was up to the double digits in number of APs.

I filed immediately and new amazing wife and baby daughter later, havenít looked back. Glad youíre getting out and starting the road back to a normal life you deserve. Stay with it and donít let your WW manipulate you any more. And you know itís coming.

Remember, she is badly broken and it has nada to do with you.

TheGuy123 posted 3/31/2019 23:51 PM

Does she really need to be confronted?

Let the divorce be the confrontation....when she gets served she will figure out you know about the false R.

You gave her a gift of forgiveness and she threw it away.

You owe her nothing, keep her in the dark as long as possible....the sooner you confront her the longer you have to deal with her manipulation.

Let her think all is good and let her think she is two steps ahead of you....take the time to get three steps ahead of her.

All's I'm saying is she has been planning her exit a lot longer then you have been planning yours.

[This message edited by TheGuy123 at 11:55 PM, March 31st (Sunday)]

skyrun11 posted 4/1/2019 09:55 AM

The attorney process is set into motion through my EAP and I should be able to get a consultation this week. I am trying to get back into IC today. I was also at least able to get out of bed today without feeling nauseous. I appreciate the continued encouragement because it helps counteract the weaker part of me that questions if this is the right thing to do.

How do I deal with her in the meantime until I get the process in motion? My acting is wearing thin and she questions why I have been so distant. I have been using the excuse that is anxiety due to our daughter's continuing issues. Ironically, she told me she will be there for me and that I need to lean on her. She doesn't know that I am repulsed at the sight of her right now. I feel badly for lying to my kids about why I am sick and the reason for my anxiety, but I figure the end will justify the means. I have heard most or all of the manipulations, but I appreciate everyone's advice on how to deal with this because it has obviously worked on me in the past.

skyrun11 posted 4/1/2019 14:30 PM

She has discovered that I know before I could get set up with attorney, counseling, etc. I didn't realize pictures on my phone went to more places than just one and were saved somewhere else. We were taking pictures on my phone for some warranty work and she went to the pictures in a different location and the pictures of text messages were there also. So, everything blew up and I got all of the classic manipulations-This was my one slip up in the last three years, I have been feeling horrible about it, It wasn't going to go any further, don't throw away everything we have, we need each other, you are my world, you have been distant... There are probably some I am forgetting. I mostly just sat there and listened and told her that I just need time to think. I wasn't expecting this confrontation at this point, so was a bit dumbfounded. She asked if I am leaving and I said I am thinking about it. I feel like I was weak like I was in the past and now she has more space for this manipulation. I will see her in a few hours and she wants to go talk. I feel like I just need to tell her now that I am seeking legal support and to file for divorce. I feel like otherwise I will just let this continue. You have all been so supportive and given me tough love and advice, so I know I can trust your views on this new development.

skyrun11 posted 4/1/2019 15:25 PM

[This message edited by skyrun11 at 3:25 PM, April 1st (Monday)]

Buster123 posted 4/1/2019 17:06 PM

This was my one slip up in the last three years, I have been feeling horrible about it, It wasn't going to go any further, don't throw away everything we have, we need each other, you are my world, you have been distant... There are probably some I am forgetting. I mostly just sat there and listened and told her that I just need time to think. I wasn't expecting this confrontation at this point, so was a bit dumbfounded. She asked if I am leaving and I said I am thinking about it. I feel like I was weak like I was in the past and now she has more space for this manipulation. I will see her in a few hours and she wants to go talk.

Wow what a great record just "one slip up" in 3 years, maybe she was expecting a trophy if she could go 5 years, please you've done this before, man up and simply tell her you're done and will be seeing an attorney this week, at least you don't have to lie to your kids anymore, tell them mommy was talking to her boyfriend again, please end this farce and get out of infidelity, you've seen this movie many times before and know how it ends, she's a serial cheater.

It doesn't really matter if she found out before you filed, she was going to find out anyway, you can only control YOU, you deserve someone who respects you and don't just go fuck someone else the second she thinks you're being "distant".

beenthereinco posted 4/1/2019 17:09 PM

Now that she knows you just have to move up your timeline. It is not ideal but it seems to me that it doesn't make a fundamental difference in your plans. You were determined to Divorce and were going to see the attorney. Her knowing doesn't change that plan. Now she will know ahead of time. You have already said that you know the tactics she will use. Prepare yourself for them and stay resolute on your path.

fareast posted 4/1/2019 17:26 PM

Skyrun11:

You are going to be fine. Youíve heard all of this crap before. Be calm and straightforward.

My question to he4 would be: if you did not intend it to go further why were you applying for a job to be closer to him?

She got caught and is desperate. Sorry you are going through this. Really? There is no room for more slip ups. How does she expect you to ever trust her? Maybe, for three years at a time? This woman needs serious IC whether you D or not.

NotTheManIwas posted 4/1/2019 17:40 PM

Look at it this way, man. The pressure is off of you to continue obfuscating about your distant demeanor. You can now calmly look her in the eye and say things in very straight deadly even fashion. Not that it matters to your plan, but your deadly calm will put her in an anxious panic and discomfort that you've been going thru. Karma. Stay the course, brother. Be unflappable.

Marz posted 4/1/2019 17:40 PM

Bud, all your getting is self preservation mode.

She's regretfull for being caught. Nothing more

TheGuy123 posted 4/1/2019 17:45 PM

Go through with the consultation and file.
...let's see what she is made of when she gets served.

Remember the D is not finalized for another few month....maybe more!

Your old lady has this time to either change your mind before she signs the papers or move on with out you.

It is very possible that the current time may not fit her schedule. So let's see.

TheGuy123 posted 4/1/2019 17:50 PM

I mean you can't realy trust her agenda, but you can get the paper work ready and waiting.

Hell look at it this way...you have all the documents just waiting in the draw of your lawyers desk just waiting for her to phuck up.AGAIN!

I strongly suggest having her served...finalizing is another story.

Let's see how she responds.

[This message edited by TheGuy123 at 6:20 PM, April 1st (Monday)]

TheGuy123 posted 4/1/2019 17:52 PM

She either works real hard to stop it from finalizing or she tells you to phuck off and picks up the A even more.

Again having her served will see what she is made of and what her true agenda is.

[This message edited by TheGuy123 at 6:18 PM, April 1st (Monday)]

TheGuy123 posted 4/1/2019 18:31 PM

How safe is this partner when #1 she already cheated and #2 she is at it again. It doesn't matter if "it wasn't going any were" she has proven to be unsafe for you to have a committed relationship with.

Your additude is a direct result of her behavior.

She continues to act one way when you are next to her and completely different when you are not....why?
She can't affair proof the marriage by acting this way. She can be a great wife when your around but when your not.....well there lays the issue and it is her issue alone.

The first few year after I busted my old lady didn't mean a thing...why cuz she went straight for five years and went back at it again after that.

It wasn't until she learned the tools to affair proof the marriage that worked...and I had nothing to do with that.

In the last three years, if your old lady had learned any thing about affair proofing HER OWN MARRIAGE well then the text would have gone unanswered and pics would have never been exchanged.

Sorry man she is just not safe for you!


Stevesn posted 4/1/2019 19:36 PM

This wasnít just a quick ďhow are you doing?Ē it was reminiscing about the good times they had together.

A truly remorseful WW would see those times as dark and evil for how they made you, her true love, feel. How those moments hurt you. Sheíd be disgusted by them, not think fondly on them.

Reconciliation is possible, but not by letting her off easy.

If it were me, I would say to her:

ďitís obvious you still have feelings for this man. I cannot be with a partner pining away for the love she has for someone else.

At this point I am going to start the D process, because itís unclear how I will ever be able to trust you again.

Itís clear you didnít do the work you needed the first time you broke my heart. If at some point you prove to me that I am truly the love of your life, and you see him as nothing more than a vessel for murdering our relationship and M, then perhaps we can discuss trying again.

But that starts with intensive individual therapy with an infidelity specialist for you. Without it you cannot in any way help me heal. Itís clear I now have to do that for myself, alone.

And to prove that to myself, I need to talk to a lawyer about starting the divorce process.

This is completely devastating to me. I hope the thrill you got reminiscing with him was worth it.

Iím unwilling to talk anymore about our relationship until you have at least 3 months of at least weekly therapy under your belt. I canít control whether or not you do that. Thatís your choice. But until it happens we have little more to discuss. ď

Then Iíd leave it at that my friend. Itís the truth. Doing this again shows sheís not a safe partner. It would be more harmful to you to try and work on things while she is who she is right now.

I hope you will consider this and all the advice you have received here.

Keep posting.
Good luck.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 10:35 PM, April 1st (Monday)]

Crushed7 posted 4/2/2019 07:20 AM

So, everything blew up and I got all of the classic manipulations-This was my one slip up in the last three years, I have been feeling horrible about it, It wasn't going to go any further, don't throw away everything we have, we need each other, you are my world, you have been distant

While it didn't play out that way you were planning, you still got to see her respond and clearly show you who she is...

One slip up = minimizing/excuse
Feeling horrible = excuse
No further = excuse
Don't throw away everything = manipulation
We need each other = manipulation
You are my world = false promise/manipulation
You've been distant = blameshifting

What you didn't see is her showing any degree of empathy for what she has done to you, the pain you are in, the position she has put the marriage in or the wider impact this could be having on your daughter. She didn't show concern for anyone else as, once again, everything is about her.

I feel like I just need to tell her now that I am seeking legal support and to file for divorce.

The more information she has, the better her chances of manipulating and controlling you. Case in point -- she saw the evidence you have, so she has built her entire minimization/excuse/blameshifting angle around it. Now she also knows that you are considering leaving and she is more than capable of figuring out what that means for her. She has most likely already informed the AP of what was seen and what the storyline should be. It wouldn't be surprising if she has crafted a tale to give to family/friends to try and win them to her side and has already started planting those seeds. She will also likely go seek out legal counsel and/or begin plotting how to throw a wrench into your plans -- potentially including ways to file a false DV charge.

She'll want to know everything she can for her own benefit, so she'll ask or snoop or try to provoke you. Her primary aim will be to keep you in place. If she feels that she is losing control and that you might leave, she will shift to doing everything she can to achieve her own benefit. Again, it is all self-centered and manipulative.

You don't owe her any explanations or insight. None. Especially about legal support or divorce. The only thing you should talk about is essentials around caring for the kids or the home (e.g. bills). Go read the 180 in the Healing Library (https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp#FAQ11).

Then go do. Go get legal representation today. Go file for divorce as quickly as possible. Go talk to your family. Plan the talk with your kids. Take the steps to show your WS (and to yourself) that you aren't tolerating the abuse anymore.

I didn't realize pictures on my phone went to more places than just one and were saved somewhere else.

While you may already know some of this, let me just point it out because she likely will start snooping and the stakes are now very high.

1. If your content is replicated and able to be brought up elsewhere, you need to know exactly how that works and how else it can be accessed. While pictures are one example, your email, texts and even passwords might be accessible elsewhere depending on the devices and/or services you use. If you aren't sure about this, ask.

2. This place is where you are able to vent, get advice and receive encouragement. It is also where you are being clear about where your head is at. You need to protect it. Make sure you are using a private/incognito browser mode when you visit to avoid leaving a trail that she can follow. If you haven't been browsing privately, you'll want to clear out your past browser history and cookies.

3. If your browser saves your passwords for any sites you go to, you'll want to either disable and delete that capability or make sure that she is never able to get onto the phone/computer/device in the first place (e.g. it is password, PIN or biometrically protected so only you can get onto it)

4. Always log off and/or make sure things lock/time out. If there are devices or apps that are logged in on things other than your phone, you need to think about those too.

5. If your WS can guess (or knows) your passwords, you should consider changing them. If you need a place to save your passwords, there are some apps that will encrypt them and then require a password/fingerprint to get to them (again, make sure she doesn't know and can't guess the password).

6. If you need a separate email or even online storage for your personal communications with legal representation, handling counselor interaction/scheduling, saving evidence, etc., setting that up is easy and often free.

7. If you share any devices at home (e.g. a tablet or computer), assume that it isn't secure, even if you have your own login and browse privately.

8. If your wife is tech saavy and your phone isn't locked with your own password/PIN/biometric, be aware that she could access its contents and/or put spy applications onto it.

9. Recognize that from this point forward your WS could be recording you, trying to pull information, could use any of your social media posts and even might try to get you into a situation that plays to her advantage. Button everything up and don't react to her.

10. Know all your financial assets and discuss how to best protect them with your lawyer.

Go make sure you are safe from having her gain information/insight that makes it easier for her to manipulate you.

[This message edited by Crushed7 at 7:24 AM, April 2nd (Tuesday)]

skyrun11 posted 4/2/2019 16:38 PM

Thank you for the specific advice on how to protect the technology piece. This is very helpful.

Some of you have suggested that reconciliation is possible but only after filing for divorce, extended therapy, etc. but some of you suggest just making a clean break. My gut is telling me clean break at this point, but I am consulting a therapist for perspective and have scheduled with a lawyer.

We had a discussion last night, and I could see all the classic tools of manipulation that everyone mentioned. I stayed with the line. This is not going to work, I am not willing to do this again, and I just need space and time to decide how to proceed. It felt like your advice helped keep me strong. Yesterday, she asked to hold my hand and today she asked me to kiss me goodbye. I said no and she has the nerve to get offended. Today, I get the apology poem begging for me back. She is definitely pulling out the full arsenal, but I am just trying to stay calm and direct and now silent until I know my exact next steps.

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