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RocketRaccoon posted 11/11/2018 21:27 PM

Hi Oktober,

No stop sign, so will wade in for a little while.

I am not familiar with your story, but (there is always a but isn't there?) from what you had written, my initial thought was 'serial cheater in the making'.

Then you wrote:

Last time my BS carried the weight of reconciliation for both of us for so long.

Ding! Ding! We have a winner here folks!

From my limited viewpoint, even though you had gone through the motions of R, you were not vested in it.

The WS is the one that should be putting in the hard yards in any attempt at R. The BS also needs to do the work, but it was not the BS that screwed up the M, so it falls on the WS to do most of the work.

In R, the BS & WS need to be committed and receptive to R. This is the commonality for any chance at R. Without this, there is no R.

If you are truly committed to R, then you damn well better buck up, and do the work required.

YOU need to show him through your words and actions that YOU are going to hunker down and not lay-about like the last time.

There is no guarantee that your BS will take you back (sorry, channeling Capt. Obvious here), but you will still have to do the work, nonetheless. The outcome is not for you to control, it is purely in the hands of your BS.

At the moment, your BS is thinking 'Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me'. His self-confidence is shattered (you took the proverbial sledgehammer to his ego), and he still had some glue left after your first A, so he rebuilt himself, and did the work to try and mend what you broke.

You broke it again, like a petulant child, because you probably felt entitled (very common behaviour nowadays), and smashed the M again, because you were not 'happy', but her has no glue left for the M. YOU will need to provide that now.

What you need is to get off your high, self-entitled horse, and start shovelling the sh*t that your horse has produced.

You say that you understood the hows and whys of how you got into your first A. Might be true, but you sure have a funny way of showing how you learn things.

A few things that you should look into doing now:
1. Leave your ego outside. Egos tend to get in the way of any constructive actions. Your BS is entitled to keep his ego, as it has been shattered, and is the one that needs to be re-built. Yours was the one that caused the trouble, so keep it out.

2. Change your attitude about R. You will need to want it also, and not be a passenger. You need to take on the pilot's seat, whilst your BS is the Captain, giving you orders as and when. You execute those orders.

3. Shields down. No walls. You have to be comfortable with being vulnerable. Even moreso now, as it is your second time around.

4. Do not be complacent. You got too comfortable, and forgot what you did. This is probably due to you not being that vested in the last R. That attitude got you into trouble. Do you want to continue with that behaviour?

5. Think of your BS as a prize. Please don't say that he already is, as you have shown that you do not really think that, or you would not be in this predicament. He already gave you an incredible gift of R the first time around. Make yourself worthy so that he can consider giving you that gift again.

6. Give up thoughts and behaviours of me/myself/I for the time being. Your selfishness has caused you to be in the same position twice Only start that behaviour when your M is truly on a path of R, or if you need to protect yourself when you are single again, and once your daughter reaches 18.

7. Get out of the mentality that you are a victim.

My BS dragged me to marriage counselling, forced me to post here and by March 2012 I was eventually at a point where I gave up the affair.

This may be a bit pedantic, but this sentence makes you sound so eager *being sarcastic here* to stay in the M.

LivingWithPain posted 11/12/2018 15:59 PM

Why did I seek an Ea with a married man? I didn’t seek anything. That’s my trouble I just allowed the 1-1 time to continue on the phone and hey presto there we are.

BH here.

It seems to me the problem is boundaries. You may have reestablished them after your first affair but at some point you let them lapse and fall again.

TrustGone posted 11/12/2018 16:39 PM

This is similar to being a dry drunk. You knew what it would cause if you did it again, but you did it anyway. Just like a dry drunk, you went through the motions, but you never got to why you did it the first time. You never discovered the why. You made excuses on being dissatisfied with the marriage and how the AP made you feel. If you wanted a happy relationship you would continue to work your ass off to make sure that you knew for sure why you did it and what causes you to be this way. Why do you seek the attention of others? Words in these such cases mean nothing to a BS when it happens again. You can attest to being selfish, but why are you so selfish? You have to dig deep and that's no fun when a BS takes you at your word, as your BH did the first time. It's easy just to say what a BS wants to hear, but you didn't really mean it. Even if this time ends your marriage, you still need to dig deep as to why you care so little about family, why you quit working on a better marriage, and why you need outside attention. Otherwise, you will do this again in any relationship you are in. I truly wish you the best in coming to terms with yourself.

Marauder posted 11/12/2018 16:48 PM

First to get this out of the way.

I'm a fool

No, you're not. A fool is someone who "behaves in a silly way without thinking". This does not apply to you at all. You even said yourself, you thought about what you were doing and then went ahead and did it anyway.

What you are is a serial cheater with a lack of opportunities. You've done it in the past and the very first time you went away and had a chance you immediatly tried to do it again.

The rest, from blaming the marriage, to your husband, your communication, the excuses how the POSOM "understands you" when he was never pretending you were more than a side piece for him from the get go. It's all excuses. Every single last bit of it.

SorrowfulMoon posted 11/12/2018 18:31 PM

Please wake up quickly. You have a lot of work to do.

deztronomy posted 11/13/2018 11:23 AM

You should pack your bags and kiss your daughter goodbye. Her father deserves a partner to raise his daughter that he can trust. Be a good mother and leave these people alone since you can't be a faithful wife. They don't deserve to be treated like this. You need a million 2x4's but I don't think any of them will do you any good. You and your AP's are just scummy people.

sassylee posted 11/13/2018 12:27 PM


You have a pm.

ButterflyWings posted 11/13/2018 14:21 PM

I'm not going to wield 2x4s at you because after reading some of the posts, that's already been done. I do think that you recognized that your BS carried the weight of R for a long time. Sadly you didn't do all the work as you would have immediately removed yourself from the situations you were in and recognized the pattern. You have a lot of work to do. You have to prove to your BS that you are a safe partner. You have to do the heavy lifting and prove that you are worthy. I do not agree with you not being a good mother. You may have made some seriously bad decisions and you did choose your needs above hers (most Waywards do), but that does not mean you don't deserve to make amends. If your BS does give you the opportunity for R, you really need to think about whether or not you can be the wife/person/woman/mother he needs you to be.

HFSSC posted 11/13/2018 22:46 PM

I’ve struggled with whether to respond. But today I just really wanted to. I have thought of you and your H often. In fact it was very recently that I thought of you and wondered how y’all were doing.

I’m really sad for you and LH that this isn’t a happy update. But I’m glad you came back. My prayer is that you will truly work to find your “why” and to repair the damage, that y’all will find a way to put it all back together the right way. JM and I did just about everything wrong, the wrongest way possible for a long time. When we reconciled after our false R blew up, I laid down some deal breakers. One of my absolute deal breakers was any broken NC. I thought he got it. He was showing real remorse and I thought he really understood and believed that I wouldn’t tolerate it.

Well, he did. But what I hadn’t taken into account was how much his crappy coping mechanisms were hard wired in to him. So when the inevitable (for us, anyway) happened and he broke NC, he was really screwed. He couldn’t tell me what he’d done so his anxiety kept climbing. And he didn’t know how to cope with the anxiety but knew he’d gotten some immediate relief when she said she wasn’t mad at him. So he’d do the easy, stupid thing again, which then started the cycle again.

When I found out, I was LIVID. I mean, I was way past rage. But to my surprise I wasn’t ready to call it over between us. I felt pathetic and very angry, but it wasn’t a dealbreaker after all. But we did step up in MC and I told him one requirement for him to stay at home was to join and post on SI.

It was WAY out of his comfort zone but he’d finally reached the willingness to do whatever it took to fix his mess. And that brings me to the point of this novel.

Someone had bumped the Life Boat thread for him and it really clicked for him. He read it over and over and found ways to work the concepts from that post into our everyday struggles, but still stumbling around and doing some dumb stuff. He had posted a request for help and FloridaRedMan asked him what he was doing to fix himself and us. JM listed some stuff and mentioned that he was bailing water as fast as he could. FRM told him that he needed to quit blowing holes in the boat before he could bail water.

We’ve never forgotten that. That was the turning point for us and when we began to heal. Truly heal.

So I’m not going to swing any more wood at you. Just gonna encourage you to quit blowing holes in the boat and maybe y’all have a chance. Please stick around, start from scratch and do what you need to do

hopeandhealing posted 11/13/2018 23:50 PM

I am a BS, no stop sign, I know you are hurting, but you are asking for feedback, 2x4s if necessary. I am going to be honest, but I think fair as an outsider looking in.

Will I do the work again and then end here again because we repeat the same cycle together.

I feel strongly your use of the word "we" should be replace by "I". It is you cheating repeatedly, not your BH. The "cycle" of your marriage with the inherent ups and downs is zero excuse to cheat. He was in the same marriage and didn't cheat, twice.

I am an advocate of second chances, giving the gift of R with a remorseful spouse, willing to do the work, but I do not at all support third chances. I can not comprehend how after seeing the depth of his pain in 2011, you put your needs first, again. If it were me, I would be done. There would be no discussion required. The word cruel comes to mind.

Yes, I do think you will end up here again. You are not a safe partner for your H, your selfishness takes priority. I don't believe you really did the work years ago. I am sorry for the 2x4. I hope you do do the work to heal you for yourself and future partner (whoever that may be), as well as to be able to model integrity and honesty to your daughter as she grows up. You don't have to be this person moving forward. You can choose to be better.

He met my needs and I let him

If you truly believe your AP "met your needs", in the mere 7 weeks you have been communicating with him over text, being some 300 miles apart, you are in, I believe, what WS call "the fog"l. He stroked your ego, that's it. Needs met? Umm, no.

I will only reconcile - of course if this is even an option for my BS - if it for the right one - to save my marriage.

R can save the M, but that's not the reason to do it. You should choose R because you choose your H as your life partner, because you love him and want your family intact, because you want to create a future with him and your daughter. You have burnt your old M to the ground, you and your BH decide whether to rebuild or not. If you do, don't build it as rickety as you have historically. Do your work, the real work, the digging hard work to be a better person.

I want to be loved

I encourage you to explore this more. How is that defined by you? What does that look like? Why did/do you need to seek external validation ? You say self esteem were issues historically, but improved now...why can't you create your own happiness and love without the reliance/need on external validation/ego kibbles?

Good luck to you. Though your actions brought you to where you are, I am indeed sorry for your pain.

[This message edited by hopeandhealing at 11:54 PM, November 13th (Tuesday)]

Dixie423 posted 11/14/2018 15:04 PM

Wow! I can’t believe some of the comments regarding her motherhood. Being a bad wife does not mean you are a bad parent. You people can be harsh.

Texashunter41 posted 11/14/2018 15:44 PM

Ya know that old saying..if the shoe fits..but it safe to say she won’t be replying to any of this. I feel like she was trying to get support for her actions..but let’s be honest here..anyone who comes here looking for that is doomed..especially this being a second go of luck to ya..but I’d be gone after this second rodeo..

ibonnie posted 11/14/2018 18:10 PM

Being a bad wife does not mean you are a bad parent. You people can be harsh.

You know that saying, "the most important thing a father can do for his children is to love their mother"? You can swap mother/father, but the sentiment still applies.

Are you being a good parent if you're actively choosing to do something that will traumatize your partner, who (in theory) is also your co-parent?

Are you being a good parent if you're making choices that will destroy your child's family and home life? That could have long-lasting psychological effects? Negative financial consequences?

Are you being a good parent if, instead of spending time/money/energy on your partner or your children, you're spending it on an AP?

Are you being a good parent if you're making choices that are going to result in your child spending Thanksgiving with you and Christmas with your BS?

Zugzwang posted 11/15/2018 16:50 PM

Being a bad wife does not mean you are a bad parent.

Of course you are. I have no problem admitting I was a bad father. I chose to text some women instead of investing time in my family. I chose to put my family at risk. I chose to put my wife in a situation of divorce making my children pay for me wanting some women to feed me ego kibbles. Women do the same. How are they not bad mothers when they cheat? If sex is involved than the serious risk of health. If bunny boilers are involved than the risk of and AP going crazy and hurting the family and betrayed. If an OBS is involved than the risk of them taking revenge. How is none of that not being a bad parent? The OBS could have murdered me and my children grew up without a father. Then even far reaching as in my wife's case, her mother cheated on her father. Left her father for the AP who turned around and sexually molested and raped her and all her siblings. Yeah, her mother was a bad mother.

RocketRaccoon posted 11/19/2018 03:52 AM

HI Oktober,

Not sure if you are still around, and reading the advice, but just to add another bit of alternative insight as to how you could have fallen into another A after all this time.

My guess is hubris. You were so confident that you knew your boundaries, and the whys, and whatnots. This got to your head, and you may have subconsciously wanted to test it out. This over-confidence made you think you were a 'better person', and as such would not get involved in an A again. As the saying goes, 'pride before the fall'.

If you are still going to IC, it might be worth your while to learn some techniques to rein in that pride and ego. Self-confidence is great, but it should be tempered with some humility and empathy.

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