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Different perspective

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Stevesn posted 10/30/2018 18:10 PM

ATG

Have you read “Joseph’s letter” yet? If so did you give it to her already?

If not go read it here in the HEALING LIBRARY. (Under “articles”).

After reading it consider if it would be helpful to give it to your WW. If so, print it and cut off any URL information from this site.

When is your joint session with her?

[This message edited by Stevesn at 6:14 PM, October 30th (Tuesday)]

Atg100 posted 10/30/2018 18:22 PM

I read Joseph's letter.
I used the analogy of the missing puzzle pieces and how she is able to come to her conclusions based on all the facts - and that I don't have the same access to information.

No response.

This morning she said also "I was selfish in my response yesterday to you "

She has got zero empathy for me.
I hope she reads " not just friends " before she sees the counselor.
As I said:
IC today for me today, for her tomorrow.
MC next week

Buster123 posted 10/30/2018 19:45 PM

But when do you talk like that with a friend after work???
That is so abnormal, I just need to focus again on the fact that I am not mad.

First, yes I'm very proud you used that "inner Buster" to push the issue, it obviously made an impact on her, based on what you said you got the feeling she was about to say more, I would keep pushing the issue NOW that it's hot and it seems she was going to cave and confess but if you prefer a softer approach, stay distant (soft 180) for the next couple of days to see her reaction, she knows you're NOT satisfied with her answer and that makes her uncomfortable, she's basically saying he told her "you know what we can fuck or just talk, it's up to you" and that went on for 8 months, come on she KNOWS you're NOT a fool and no one would buy her story, yet she seems ashamed and like a typical cheater keeps denying the obvious, if she keeps denying even after the joint session, consider a polygraph.

You didn't answer my previous question on whether you had full on demand access to her phone and all electronic devices, that way you can run deleted text/email recovery software like Dr Fone or Enigma, if you don't have access to it, why not ?

[This message edited by Buster123 at 7:50 PM, October 30th (Tuesday)]

AFL1000 posted 10/30/2018 19:56 PM

Hey mate

I wondered when the dam might break ...there is only so long that the question about whether the affair was physical had to be asked head on. Her response was not unexpected …crying , anger, denial, blame shifting …then apologies and excuses:

“he wanted more, but I said, I just wanted to talk, and he was happy with that”
“I try so hard to forget the other person, but your question stirred everything up again.”
“he said to me that we could take this further to a physical affair or just talk, it was up to me“
WTF

As Buster said this is all about guilt & shame and she is in self-protection/self-preservation mode.

“I was selfish in my response yesterday to you" is still all about her.

You also stated that she has not shown any empathy for you. Is this a trait that she has always displayed throughout your relationship with her? Has she shown empathy with you or others during difficult times or situations during the marriage?

Buster and Stevesn’s advice is spot on as always.

Let us know how the counselling sessions go.

Atg100 posted 10/30/2018 19:57 PM

I have access to her facebook and text.

Unfortunately only after D-day, so I don't have access to her facebook messages prior to D Day.
Dr Fone - I read previous reviews - I don't think I would be able to get access to her facebook messages which are deleted, so I don't think its work it.
Is that correct?

I think the timing with the IC for me today and her tomorrow is fortuitous ; I will certainly bring her reaction up today and see what happens.

Atg100 posted 10/30/2018 19:59 PM

AFL:


WTF - that is exactly my reaction.

It is so far removed from reality, how anyone can even come up with that stuff is beyond me???

Buster123 posted 10/30/2018 20:38 PM

Don't forget about other apps like WhatsApp, Snapchat, KIK, etc., it would not hurt to spend a few bucks on recovery software, she could be texting and deleting right afterwards, Dr Fone will not recover everything but it has helped many BS recover some evidence from most texting apps, even snipets of texts could tell a lot, plus most likely she doesn't know the software won't recover all messages, you could use it as a tool to try to get a confession from her by showing it to her and what the software is capable of (go to the sotware's website), tell her she's got one last chance to being honest, if she doesn't confess and you don't get anything, tell her the software sends the info to a "support center" and that it can take up to 30 days to get all the messages, this is to buy time for the joint session (she could change her mind and confess later).

[This message edited by Buster123 at 8:38 PM, October 30th (Tuesday)]

Stevesn posted 10/30/2018 22:41 PM

I will say, if possible, there’s nothing more powerful than reading a WS’s own words to the AP back to them.

So anything you recover can be strong medicine.

Siting your WW down and asking her to listen to even a few of the most explicit messages she sent to the POS can make her see how awful she was to betray you like that.

Especially if she has never talked to you that way, even when you were dating.

In bigger cities there are technical experts and recovering all types of messages if you have the stomach for it.

gmc94 posted 10/30/2018 23:18 PM

I've not had a chance to read all the pages on this thread, but have you considered downloading the facebook message archive and asking your sponsor to review it? Seems to me that having a go-between could help avoid trauma.

I'm sorry you are here, but as a former wayward, I suspect that deep down you know the work your W needs to do to be safe.... maybe she needs a life coach and an accountability partner?

Just my $0.02. Sorry you are here.

ETA
well shizzle on no FB archive (I downloaded all my WH's posts while he slept, but didn't read them until after I confronted him). I would not tell he what you know. WS lie. They are very good at it, and can look you in the eyes and tell a some doozies.
Godspeed.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 11:29 PM, October 30th, 2018 (Tuesday)]

Atg100 posted 10/30/2018 23:30 PM

Thanks gmc -
I think the archive doesn’t store deleted messages; she deleted them all. If there is a way to get those message a back, I’d be interested .
I tried Dr Fone on my iPhone - it doesn’t work.
Our counselor is her chance I think.
A life coach is a good idea.

Buster123 posted 10/31/2018 00:10 AM

Just to make sure you covered this, have you asked OBS if she has access to OM's phone ? he may not have deleted all messages, plus they could be communicating through a different app now, it doesn't hurt to ask, also don't forget about the intimidation effect, you can tell her you want to take her phone to a recovery company that you have contacted, that they told you they could recover them all and see if she caves, finally if she sticks to her guns, you can always demand she takes a polygraph.

Atg100 posted 10/31/2018 04:40 AM

I have no contact with the OBS .
I initiated contact, for the reasons I described above , I wouldn’t be able to contact her again.
She however still has my number - she has not made use of it.

I had my IC today and told the counselor about last night. She said that I’m entitled to ask this question and that my wife’s reaction was out of proportion .
She concluded that the relationship was either physical or that my wife still has strong feelings for the AP.
She will explore this in her session tomorrow and mention a few other things I discussed.
I told her under the right circumstances I am able to forgive and work on R.
But she agrees , currently I’m not aware of what I’m actually forgiving.
The counselor was disappointed with my wife’s reaction and feels that my wife needs further IC before we can come as a couple.
She still thinks there is hope and reasons to stay on course.
We talked a lot about doctors and how she currently looks after quite a few. She made sure I’m exercising and taking time to engage with the children.
She felt I keep it together well....

[This message edited by Atg100 at 4:49 AM, October 31st (Wednesday)]

Atg100 posted 10/31/2018 15:04 PM

Here is currently talk about doctors having to mandatorily report their mental health conditions which may affect their ability to practice.
I discussed this with my counselor and she thinks that I am doing alright . At the beginning of it all, I took some days off, but now I’m ok.
My wife asked me how my counselling session was -I told her exactly what the counselor said : including that the reaction was out of proportion to the question and that the counselor said that the relationship was either physical or that she still has strong feelings for the other guy.
My wife apologised to me “ I’m sorry that I introduced that other person into our lifes”
She then spend the rest of the evening reading “ not just friends”

Atg100 posted 10/31/2018 16:07 PM

Thought :
As I have to be concerned about how my wife’s affair affects my ability to work, I am thinking about the AP.
He is an independent contractor in my wife’s hospital .
This hospital is a catholic institution and he would have to stick to the hospital’s code of conduct.
I will check this later today, but I’m sure the nuns won’t like it that there is a married contractor, lying about his own marital status, chasing married women.
Maybe time to use the rules in my favour.

devotedman posted 10/31/2018 16:11 PM

I think that it is that time.

Marz posted 10/31/2018 16:47 PM

Duplicate

[This message edited by Marz at 4:49 PM, October 31st (Wednesday)]

Marz posted 10/31/2018 16:48 PM

Yes, with utmost speed. No warning to your wife. Just do it.

Consequences are a good thing

NoOptTo posted 10/31/2018 18:15 PM

Actions have consequences. Both your wife and POSOM can use a dose of consequences for their actions. Let the hospital know of it.

AFL1000 posted 10/31/2018 19:00 PM

Hey ATG

Just a word of caution. I think every BS wants to get some kind of retribution on the AP. A purely natural human emotion. But if you take this path please make sure you have every bit of verifiable evidence at your fingertips. Have you evidence from other third parties (e.g. wife’s work colleagues) that he is lying about his marital status and probably using the hospital as his private harem. I’m sure your wife is not his only encounter. And as a med rep I am sure he has used his access to staff to do this at other hospitals.

I would arrange an in-confidence meeting with the Director of HR AND a senior member of the religious order managing the hospital. This way you can present your case against the POSOM from the HR code of conduct angle and the religious tenets of the order …“Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife; Thou shalt not commit adultery.” Catholicism regards human sexuality as a divine gift,so it’s considered sacred in the proper context — marriage.

You need to be able to counter any rebuttal from the POSOM “But I was only comforting Mrs ATG while she was going through a difficult time in her marriage. Mr ATG is a revengeful husband trying to wreck my career" (or any other countless variations on this theme!!).

You have other SI members supporting your action in revealing this POS to the senior members of the hospital but I recommend caution and that you have all your ducks in a row.

I am pleased your wife spent time reading “Not just friends” and have some encouragement from her statement; “I’m sorry that I introduced that other person into our lives” Emphasis on OUR lives.

I hope she progresses further with her counselling session today and it takes her closer and closer to a full confession.

[This message edited by AFL1000 at 7:17 PM, October 31st (Wednesday)]

Atg100 posted 10/31/2018 19:29 PM

Hi AFL
Don’t worry , I’m not going on a blind rage.
I talked to someone from HR off the record.
Short answer - it’s not worth the effort, unless his actions affect his work or the hospital’ s reputation, there won’t be much I could do.
And of course he would answer with some lies and it will become a drawn out process.

I preserve my energy for actions with higher chance of success.

Our counselor is in hospital herself, so my wife’s session is cancelled.
The counselor will however phone my wife today, as she is concerned.
( I told you she is very good )
My wife has today off and lets see what “ not just friends “ does to her .

[This message edited by Atg100 at 8:09 PM, October 31st (Wednesday)]

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