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Different perspective

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AFL1000 posted 10/15/2018 00:03 AM

Yes I do not in anyway underestimate that applying the 180 is challenging ...converting the words into actions takes considerable resolve. My close friend really struggled with applying aspects of the 180 with his WW but it did come easier to him over time.

With emotions running high on both sides are the kids picking up on the tensions between Mum and Dad or have you both tried to insulate them as best you can?

And yes I am sure there are many harsh responses you would like to make to her bs comments but as you know this is all counter productive according to the 180.

Hope IC is productive this week ...for both of you.

Stevesn posted 10/15/2018 00:07 AM

TBH if my wife told me she wasnít attracted to me and wasnít sure she loved me Iíd immediately tell her that you donít want to make her stay with someone sheís not happy with for 1 more second, wish her luck finding happiness, tell her you are going to find yours, let her know that you will coparent with her as best as you possibly can and let her know not to expect to be ďjust friendsĒ in the future.

Then Iíd work to detach completely.

As Bigger and others say here, if she tries to talk to you about the relationship tell her ďthatís something to discuss if we are working on our Marriage but you made it clear you donít have feelings for me anymore so I am not interested in having this discussionĒ and walk away.

You donít have to keep talking to someone who has made it so clear she doesnít see you as the Love of your Life. Only discuss children and finances. Those are the keeps to coparenting.

You are doing well. Keep it up.

Atg100 posted 10/15/2018 00:57 AM

Yes, the combination of these cruel words, the selfishness, the disrespectful behaviour is a very potent poison.
I couldnít imagine being this cruel to any person, who I once had feelings for.
I detach , I will be the bigger man with the goal in mind.
My values are intact and guide me through these crazy times.

And itís easy to define your values as a theoretical exercise , it is times like these when they are required and I have to dig very deep to find inner strength.

Thanks to all your support , I really need it.

I have drafted my out of court settlement offer and have sent it to my lawyer .
Tonight Iíll take the two kids to sport, whilst my wife is at a talk ď how to bring up boys ď

She will be home later than me; if itís not too late , I will go for a run .
I will see the counsellor on Wednesday , a day before my wife will go.
I have cut my day down into little parcels of time and just want to make it through the next hour without questioning my own sanity .

[This message edited by Atg100 at 1:23 AM, October 15th (Monday)]

Atg100 posted 10/15/2018 05:35 AM

The husband of one of my wifeís friends, told his wife that he would go on a Ďboysí weekendĎ
Unfortunately for him, pictures of him emerged on Facebook: in company of some young women who also attended the weekend getaway.
My wife was outraged ď what a bastard. My friend must be so upset ď
ď yesĒ, I said , ď she must beĒ.

If I needed any other explanation that she is still in the fog, here it was.
She didnt even blink an eyelid .

AFL1000 posted 10/15/2018 06:27 AM

Hmmm the fog is strong with this one young Skywalker

How could she not make the connection with what she said. I am amazed ...well actually I shouldn't be!!!!

[This message edited by AFL1000 at 6:31 AM, October 15th (Monday)]

Stevesn posted 10/15/2018 06:50 AM

You shoulda said ďyeah I know she isĒ

Atg100 posted 10/15/2018 17:15 PM

My wifeís behaviour changed since last night again completely.
Friendly, caring , pre-cooking dinners.
ď sorry I was grumpy yesterday morning ď
Eye contact and smiles.

I need to keep my distance , Iíd jump at any positive sign.
I remain friendly , I told her that I have an IC tomorrow after work .
She must be extremely fragile at the moment, so I need to have some empathy but donít really know how much would be aturn away from the 180.
I will discuss this with the IC tomorrow .

[This message edited by Atg100 at 5:31 PM, October 15th (Monday)]

AFL1000 posted 10/15/2018 18:52 PM

ATG My friend observed the same thing with his wife - one minute she thought the marriage was over, needed to find herself and then in the next breadth doing things for him; cooking his favourite meals,smiles,apologies for the affair, touching, sitting with him on the couch. He still kept up the 180 but like you he was somewhat encouraged by these signs but was still very wary.

Her comment about not being attracted to you and wasnít sure if she loved you is still a big hurdle to jump even with her current actions.

Is it a sign she is coming out of the fog I don't know; I would hope so; perhaps she did reflect on her stupid comment from last night. Other members responding to your posts may have more insight than I about these vacillations in behaviour.

Let us know how your IC currently assesses things. I respect the way you are handling all of this.

[This message edited by AFL1000 at 6:59 PM, October 15th (Monday)]

Atg100 posted 10/15/2018 20:10 PM

Itís the first attempt at friendliness since our return from holidays .
During the holidays I thought we were improving only to be hit with a nuclear bomb the very next day.
Itís tricky business.
I respect that fact that we process things at different speed.
I have made the mistake in the past, ď wanting to fix things nowĒ
And the message from the 180 guidelines ď donít trust a word they say and only trust less than 50% of what you seeĒ must surely be applied in both directions .

josiep posted 10/15/2018 20:58 PM

In one of your posts, you used the word drunken. If your WW drinks, that explains the craziness of her behavior (at least in part).

If that's the case, I would highly recommend AlAnon to you. AlAnon gives you a philosophy and outlook to deal with craziness, to find peace. If you can't find a meeting you like, you can attend meetings online, you can listen to podcasts, YouTube videos and/or read thousands of articles and the AlAnon books.

I feel for you. I know what it's like to watch someone disintegrate right in front of us and to still love them and be totally helpless to pull them out of it.

All the best to you.

Atg100 posted 10/15/2018 21:31 PM

Thank you very much.
Drunkenness played a role when she contacted her AP on a night out after our holiday.
But the affair started at work, whilst sober.
She used to drink 1-2 bottles of white wine in a week.
She is of slim build , when going out with friends over the last 12 months , she would often come home drunk - hung over on Sunday, unable to look after the kids.
Not that often , maybe once every 4-6 weeks.
She stopped drinking altogether since last Friday.
She said ď alcohol gives me a false sense of securityĒ . I was wondering what this meant.
Does the sense of security mean she thought she could meet the AP without me finding out?
Or security from other mental problems?
She is on anti depressants.
Thanks for your post, it gave me something else to think about.

AFL1000 posted 10/15/2018 21:46 PM

An interesting pick up by Josiep on the drinking issue. From past experience with a family member I am well aware of the effects a cocktail of alcohol and anti-depressants can have in worsening/ increasing depression and anxiety symptoms.

A current bottle of white wine averages 4-6 standard glasses. The current guidelines recommend healthy adults should drink no more than 2 standard drinks on any day .

The average glass of wine served in a pub contains 1.5 standard drinks.

We did these calculations for our family member and she was well over the safe limit and would also binge drink with her medications.Result erratic behavior and poor/risky decision making.

[This message edited by AFL1000 at 10:05 PM, October 15th (Monday)]

Atg100 posted 10/15/2018 22:17 PM

Yes, now that it is spelled out in front of me , Iím wondering about it.
And Iím a doctor - but didnít see my wife in that light .
Certainly something I need to put more effort in.

Stevesn posted 10/16/2018 02:18 AM

None of the friendliness matters as she has stated quite clearly she is not attracted to you and not sure she even loves you. Iím not sure how or what she can do to convince you what she said isnít the truth.

See the counselor tomorrow and her on Thursday but donít expect miracles.

How does the process work with the legal separation? Is she served papers? Can it start on Friday?

Do you physically separate? Will she or you have to get a separate place to live and start a parenting plan?

Last question. You said this A started at work. I canít remember, does she still work with him?

Atg100 posted 10/16/2018 02:43 AM

Thank you.
The legal separation started once I contacted a lawyer.
She will have to move out, as I will keep the house.
The lawyer suggests to give her enough funds to rent a place and get sorted before doing the settlement.
The parenting plan should be not too hard to work out, give the days she works and my own on call roster.
Yes, I donít expect miracles .
I concentrate on myself , but of course was a little hopeful this morning . But whilst she may be in a fog, I actually question my own mental health - and will that make the focus of the session tomorrow , not talking about her .

Atg100 posted 10/16/2018 05:37 AM

Stevsn
- I just read the other questions .
She would have to move out. Even with the most cunning lawyer and the best possible outcome for her, she would not be able to keep the family home.
I am fortunate that I will have other means to pay out her share of what we own.
Mind you - itís quite ironic - I work pretty hard in my job, these long hours were apparently contributing to her development of unmet needs : yet she will have no trouble to benefit from it.
But thatís ok , the law is the law. I have formulated an out of court settlement offer in my mind.

She still works with the AP on some days.
If it ever would come to reconciliation , then I would demand no contact . But right now ? I told her that she can contact him whenever she wants ; i donít care anymore . But if she would ever ask me what it would take to regain my trust, NC would be in there.
There is no such thing at the moment . Iím pretty sure we will get separated , again for some stupid reason, do I want to hear what the counselor says to me tomorrow .
Just someone professional who has seen it all before , who can explain to me what is going on.
But like others already pointed out : is that likely to change what she has said or how she feels about me ?
The book she is supposed to read, deals with all the myths about love , and how love is actually an active , labour intensive process. Does she get that? I donít know .

I need to take more care of myself to be kinder to myself and be strong for the children.

[This message edited by Atg100 at 6:25 AM, October 16th (Tuesday)]

Stevesn posted 10/16/2018 12:31 PM

Ok still not sure I understand the next step in the legal process for you, but I highly recommend taking it after both your IC sessions.

Time to make it real for her. Even if she says she wants to work on things with you after the IC, Iíd say ďIím interested in what you think that looks like, and having you documenting for me the plan you have for repairing that marriage, but in the meantime we should move forward with the separation as youíve given me no reason to trust your words. If, during the separation process you have shown my you are ALL IN then we can consider working on the MarriageĒ

Have a good IC session today.

Atg100 posted 10/16/2018 14:44 PM

Here in Australia, there are no papers to be served .
You can legally divorce one year after separation , the family court determines when this year long period finishes.
As an example, the court would look at the day when I first contacted the lawyer as the day of separation.

This at the moment feels like a somewhat bizarre situation to be in. My wife, said in a very friendly manner yesterday, that she hadnít thought about our relationship at all yesterday to take the pressure off - and she feels better.
It sounds like denial to me.
But I canít fix her; the painful discussions we had , only left me angry and more confused. Whilst I realise that this is an answer in itself, I also see my own limitations.
I think only two things can now help the chaos in her head.
1) physical separation and/or
2) the marriage counselling or better the IC

I will see the counselor today.
A friend reminded me that I am someone who wants to fix things now and straight away. As a doctor , I want to provide solutions and work on them.
One thing is obvious - my wife operates at a different speed.
My wife will see the IC tomorrow.

I will talk to her afterwards about her intentions.
I will talk at my IC session today only about my own mental health.
I am not ok, but spending my time at the counselor second guessing what my wife may do, will not help.

[This message edited by Atg100 at 3:16 PM, October 16th (Tuesday)]

AFL1000 posted 10/16/2018 19:48 PM

Hey mate I can tell you're struggling with all this and its to be expected. Members on SI have often noted that the discovery of an affair or breakdown of a marriage or long-term relationship has similarities to Kubler-Ross's 5 stages of grief:
- denial
- anger
- bargaining
- depression
- acceptance

I'm just wondering where you think you might be at at this moment. Perhaps you would like to discuss this with your IC?

My wife, said in a very friendly manner yesterday, that she hadnít thought about our relationship at all yesterday to take the pressure off - and she feels better.
WTF does that even mean!

In a couple of your latest posts you said that your wife was friendly caring, etc. You have stated that you are not monitoring her phone/emails and in your response to Stevesn you said that "She still works with the AP on some days....I told her that she can contact him whenever she wants; I donít care anymore".

Given that she has no consequences for communicating with the AP that her 'friendly behaviour' is because she is still getting her ego-kibbles from the AP and getting her emotional highs from him and that is reflected in her behaviour towards you. That she is still in the fog. Sorry if this is painful but members are here to support and help YOU.

Stevesn has provided you with wording for making this whole thing real for her. It's time she saw the consequences of her actions - moving out, reduced time with the kids, lifestyle changes, etc.

Glad you are continuing with IC. You seem to have faith in her so I hope she guides you to safe harbours for your own mental health.


[This message edited by AFL1000 at 7:49 PM, October 16th (Tuesday)]

Atg100 posted 10/16/2018 20:01 PM

Thank you
Iím in between depression and acceptance .
Iím not angry at the moment.
Denial and bargaining - no , I donít think so.
By throwing her one life line after the other , I may be seen as bargaining.

You guys are absolutely correct: she needs to show her cards. Whenever I tried to get her to do that, I got a confused answer which made me question my own sanity .
I feel Iím too emotionally fragile to see clearly now.
You guys are of great help of course and Iím not ignoring your advice. I just want to talk it through with the counselor ; indeed I have great faith in her. I think her opinion matters.My appointment is in the early evening today.

[This message edited by Atg100 at 8:03 PM, October 16th (Tuesday)]

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