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Different perspective

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GoldenR posted 10/13/2018 13:25 PM

Why 65%? What not 50-50? I don't get it.

Marz posted 10/13/2018 14:33 PM

She wanted to see the counselor for one more time and do a bit of thinking and reading.

It would not stop the separation process for this.

Bullshit translator: I'm not stoping my wayward behavior but I need time to figure out how this might affect me and my life. I might decide to stay and you can be my plan B. After all this is all about me, me and me.
I promise I'll hide my behavior better going forward so you won't find out. What you don't know won't hurt you.

Atg100 posted 10/13/2018 14:59 PM

Thanks, exactly my thought .
Thatís why I said not to drag it out , itís very confusing to everyone involved.

Atg100 posted 10/13/2018 15:02 PM

GoldenR - 65% according to Australian law .
Duration of relationship, significant difference in future earnings.
She said she only wanted enough for the kids to be looked after - the lawyer laughed and said ď they all say thisĒ
As soon as she has her own lawyer, she will go for everything. And that will be in the 60-65% range.
So Iím calculating with 65% to be on the safe side.

AFL1000 posted 10/13/2018 15:37 PM

ATG

I'm glad you decided to reconsider the house situation after your discussion with your friend ...this will indicate to your WW what one of the consequences of her affair will be ..."oh you mean I have to find a place to live!"

Marz's BS transalator is I think a fair assessment of the current situation... You are not Plan B ..or C

As I said before reality is a bitch so she's trying to prolong making decisions but you are now in control... what happens is now firmly in your hands.

Hope you can still do your hike today as a means to destress

AFL1000 posted 10/13/2018 16:43 PM

ATG

I was reflecting on your original post where you said your first marriage failed because of your affairs and personal demons at that time. You also said that you told your new wife about the affair as a reason for the marriage breakdown. Did this come up at anytime during your marriage?
Do you recall if it came up in discussions just prior to you finding out about the affair.

I ask because if she saw perceived problems with your and her relationship and that a way that you handled issues in your previous marriage was via an affair do you think in her mind she felt 'entitled' (and I use that word very cautiously) to have an affair as a means of dealing with her perceived issues with your marriage.

I do not in anyway offer this an excuse for her behaviour I am just looking for possible reasons for her internal conflict and her request for further IC.

If I am way off base tell me to FO but I would value your reflections on this.

Atg100 posted 10/13/2018 18:01 PM

Thank you.
Firstly - the hike was cancelled
Due to the weather . Some people camped there yesterday and said itís impossible to do.

So I went to yoga - long discussion with the instructor afterwards about my mindset and how yoga helps.
She said ď get all the bad stuff, like the settlement out of the way quickly, because at some point you will have to make peace with the mother of your childrenĒ
Very true.

My own past - no, my wife hasnít brought it up, but I have constantly, in my mind.
And because of that, I have been ready to take on all this guilt myself and have made excuses for her.
I am compensating for my first divorce, and my errors of the past. I realise that now.
But - I have been a faithful partner and husband throughout the entire 14 years we have been together. She cheated , I didnít . I have woken up to this .

AFL1000 posted 10/14/2018 00:07 AM

ATG was surprised that in your 14 years your wife did not broach the question even in casual conversation about your affair in the previous marriage.

What was telling for me in your response was your statement about your current relationship in which you said "I have been ready to take on all this guilt [about your affair in your previous marriage] myself and made excuses for her. I am compensating for my first divorce ...she [current wife] cheated I didn't".

Did you see behaviours in your wife that you turned a blind eye to out of guilt that in retrospect were possible signals of potential wayward or selfish behaviour on her part throughout the marriage that could have led her down the path of infidelity?

I note that you had the kids yesterday and your wife asked to have them by herself today. Is this because you are envisaging preparing the children to get used to only being with one parent at a time in the future or it was just coincidental. How do you plan on telling the children about the separation given their young age?

What are the dynamics like between you both at the moment? Are you talking about her affair outside of IC? Or do you no longer have any questions? Does your wife volunteer any information about the affair and has she said sorrry or shown any sign of remorse for hurting you?

Are you both going to continue with IC even if the outcome is separation and divorce?

Sorry for all the questions but I think it's valuable for people who come to SI to get insights into how BSs handle their own unique situations.

PS Your yoga teacher is a wise woman.


[This message edited by AFL1000 at 12:23 AM, October 14th (Sunday)]

Atg100 posted 10/14/2018 01:04 AM

I think we discussed it once.
She always got extremely touchy however when we talked about my first wife.
My first wife was extremely slack with paperwork - and for some bizarre reason she still paid for a life insurance in my name 8 years after divorce .
So whenever correspondence arrived , there was an occult moment. It was bizarre because I definitely didnít pay that policy ?

No whenever we talked about cheating in general terms my wife was extremely disappointed that people would do that and spoke out against it.
And I do think that what happened was her acting against her morals- because of whatever reason.
I donít think my previous affair was an excuse to her.

We just want to give each other time off, so thatís why we kind of split the weekends in a way.
We will hopefully discuss how we tell the children but at my wifeís request, we hold off until after the next counselling.
Itís a pretty busy week coming up, so I donít have a problem with that - if it should lead to anything else than the status quo...

AFL1000 posted 10/14/2018 03:23 AM

Thanks for taking time to respond to my questions.

I hope all goes well for you and your wife with IC next week and you get closer and closer to a resolution of your situation for both of you.

And in the spirit of interstate rivalry it was blue skies and 27 degrees down here today .

Atg100 posted 10/14/2018 03:26 AM

We just had another discussion.
I asked her if, by meeting the other guy last Saturday, she wanted to force me to divorce her.
She said " a little bit "
How do you split up from someone a little bit?
Or think that part of your action may lead to divorce??
But then she apologized for this being a drunken mistake.

I'm glad that I have some distance , because otherwise this would do my head in.
Right now, she is dancing with the kids, everybody is happy and I know why I once fell in love with her.
But somehow she turned into this person who is completely all over the place.

[This message edited by Atg100 at 3:46 AM, October 14th (Sunday)]

Atg100 posted 10/14/2018 05:31 AM

She came up with some more classics right now:

" I didn't want to have an affair. You were not around for a laugh and a chat. I didn't want to rely on you for all my needs. I just wanted to know where the boundaries for a married woman are"

" If you would have had an affair, I would have left you straight away"

I struggle to take her serious now to be honest. I will not allow this to enter my mind either: I have to stay focused to remain being the calm one, when it comes to an out of court settlement and when discussing access to children. That is the job at hand, like my lawyer said: A bit of strategic planning in this time goes a long way.

[This message edited by Atg100 at 5:47 AM, October 14th (Sunday)]

Stevesn posted 10/14/2018 06:57 AM

It reall seems like she doesnít know what she wants or what sheís doing. Too bad because of it sheís going to lose her nuclear family.

Does she show any real remorse. Does she show at all a feeling that sheís devastated that sheís hurt the man she vowed to love and cherish?

If so, youíre not relaying that hear at all. And I doubt that you would keep that from us.

Itís just so sad. Does she think sheís going to go and have a wonderful life with this man? And what will one more session do? Make her see again that sheís in love with you? Or make you feel, if she comes back, that sheís doing it as plan B while she pines away for this other guy.

Hereís some characteristics of a truly remorseful spouse. Unitl you see these show up, continue down the path you are on.

Sending thoughts of strength to you.

óóó
I believe You currently no where near have a remorseful wife in front of you. If you did, you would know it.

- She would be inconsolable with the thought of how she was the cause of so much pain to the person she loves most in the world.

- she would be begging to know what she could do to make it right.

- for you she would want to let everyone know it was her that screwed up, not you.

- she would want to read books on how to support her BS. She proactively orders them and starts reading. She actively discussed what she is reading

- she would be in IC as much as possible to figure out what went wrong with her and how she could do this to the person she loves most in the world. She proactively schedules this for herself and also proactively asks her therapist for IC recommendations for you to help you deal with the pain she has caused.

- she would feel your pain more than her own and put your happiness ahead of hers.

- she would follow your lead when it comes to intimacy, trying to figure out what you need to feel connected again

- she will gladly answer your questions at any time day or night with no objections

- she would write you a letter of apology highlighting how she must have made you feel

- she would focus most on your well being, ignoring her own

- she would realize what the OM really is and start being sick at the thought of him/her. She would start calling him/her names like POS for how he helped her destroy her life.

- They show remorse thru actions, not words. Examples of this could be that they proactively prepared a written timeline of what happened and are as thorough and factual as they can be.

- Other examples are: They book a polygraph when you are available to attend. And they buy a GPS tracker for their car so they can give you peace of mind. They sell something of value to only them to pay for these things so the cost doesn't come from your joint funds (e.g. Collectibles or jewelry or exercise equipment).

If they are only showing Regret and not Remorse then they will only be giving you words, not actions: e.g. "I'm so sorry. But you can trust me now. I promise you I've told you the whole truth: e.g. "You can trust me now. I love you. It didn't mean anything. I know I messed up - do you forgive me? I was so stupid, but I've learned from my mistakes. It's in the past now and we can move forward. I love you more now than I ever have. I promise it will never happen again, can we move on?"

Finally. THE EFFORT PUT INTO RECONCILIATION! If the betrayer doesn't work harder at repairing the relationship than they did to damage it, it isn't going to work no matter if you stay together or not. They need to be working harder at R than you are.

AFL1000 posted 10/14/2018 07:46 AM

Stevesn is right. Your wife doesn't know what she wants as is attested to by your last two posts. She is all over the place.

It would be valuable if any of the WWs on SI could give some insight into their erratic thought processes while in affair mode that might help you make sense of her conversations with you.

I asked the same question as Stevesn about her showing any remorse or anything that resembles concern for your feelings.
It still appears to be all about her.

Is her statement " If you would have had an affair I would have left you straight away" her way of signalling to you she wants to force your hand and end the marriage.

Your wife's erratic thought processes are similar to my friend's wife's utterances during her affair. What came out of her mouth was contradictory and at times lacking any rhyme or reason or common sense.

I am sorry her conversations with you are so frustrating but stay focused on yourself.

Atg100 posted 10/14/2018 11:22 AM

2 am, reading your posts.
Thanks for being here for me guys, this would feel a whole lot harder without you.
She has said sorry a couple of times, she also said that I was a wonderful man, who she doesnít want to hurt any further.
But she also said that she doesnít want to talk about her problems with anyone else, as she feels influenced by their suggestions.
ď for the first time in my life , do I want to do what is right for meĒ
I have always given her so many options, before children, we moved 3 times between Perth, Sydney and Brisbane for example. At any stage she could have said , I want out.
Quite the opposite, she loved the new experiences.

Has she displayed any of the remorseful behaviour you described ?
No
The only noticeable change is that she talks openly about having had an affair. Until last week, he was still just a friend.

Stevesn posted 10/14/2018 12:09 PM

Then keep on the path you are traveling. Iíd tell her at the end of the week you are starting the 1 year clock. You can stop it at any time.

Iím sorry you are with someone that is so detached from you and the love you are willing to share with her.

Keep detaching yourself. Sheís giving you less than 10% when she should be giving 110%.

AFL1000 posted 10/14/2018 19:26 PM

ATG

I feel for you ...up 2am mulling over this stuff. Are you using your yoga meditation techniques to help with the disturbed sleep?

I support Stevesn that for your own sanity she has to be given a drop dead date when the clock starts on separation if that's where this is all leading.

Do you know if she has consulted her own lawyer?

Your latest post says that "she talks openly about having had an affair" She uses past tense "had". This just could be cheater speak but has she said anything to you about how she now perceives the affair.

Has she categorically said she wants out of the marriage.

And is she still going to see her IC this week?

Her apparent detachment may well be her coping strategy now that she has openly acknowledged to you that this was an affair. That in itself is a big turning point for you ...that's right dear wife he never was 'just a friend'. And let's be totally clear you cheated!!!!

My friend's wife hated the words 'affair' and 'cheater' because it revealed a lot about herself and her crap behaviour towards her husband.

We're here for you ATG ..however long it takes.

Atg100 posted 10/14/2018 19:29 PM

Thank you.
It has been quite stressful that we are still in the same house.
But if I would have moved out last week for example, I wouldnít have had my eye opened to the fact that I can stay in the family home.
That lesson was invaluable and if it should work out the way I envisage this, then the extra pain was worth it.

I still love her, thatís the sad truth.
But the more I look at it , it will be the best for her to sort her head out on her own .
And I donít even mean this in a punitive way at all , but she is so all over the place, there will be a sigh of relief .

And to answer your question:
Yes, she is still going to IC this week.
She is reading ACT in love by Russ Harris .
He had written a well known book about mindfulness called ď the happiness trap ď
The gist of the first chapter is - there is no perfect relationship , adapt your expectations to reality. But I doubt if she gets it.
She still says that she is not attracted by me or not sure if she loves me, which is just another convoluted way of blame shifting . I really have to close my ears and my heart when she says this shit - because I know that she compares me with the emotional feedback from the affair .

[This message edited by Atg100 at 8:19 PM, October 14th (Sunday)]

AFL1000 posted 10/14/2018 22:27 PM

ATG it's very hard to separate mind from heart and I'm sure you still love her or at least your romanticised version of her.

You told us she said "she is not attracted by me or not sure if she loves me". I am sure that was hard to hear. So apply the 180 rules here:

20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!

24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation

30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behaviour. (Source: SI Healing Library)


Atg100 posted 10/14/2018 22:55 PM

Good advice.
Reading it and doing it are two different things, of course.
I have not lost my temper, I have not yelled.
I have listened to that chaotic sounding stuff without commenting on it.
I think thatís the counsellorís job.
Our athmosphere is now too emotionally charged;
I would know a perfect response to any of the bullshit comments she makes.
But what would be the outcome ?

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