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N P D Thread - Part 14

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cantaccept posted 10/24/2015 11:45 AM

Again, I feel silly writing this, but it shows just how damaged I have been, where a simple act of kindness can affect me so much. I don't think I ever got that from H

Not silly at all! I have been known to cry at kindness. Less so now but it still touches me in a deep, meaningful way.

You are going to be amazed at what a life without arrogance, hostility and contempt (grrrr! the contempt!!!) feels like.

It sounds like you are taking steps to empower yourself. Keep strong. You are going to be amazing!

sadone29 posted 10/26/2015 10:36 AM

Thanks cantaccept. It's nice to hear that I'm not alone. Especially today where I'm feeling his annoyance and contempt pretty strongly. I need to stop talking to him about anything except kids or money.

gottagetpastthis posted 11/19/2015 16:23 PM

This is my first time writing in the NPD thread. My WBF has bipolar disorder, and I've always thought he was narcissistic, but recently I've been learning about NPD. I would say he fits the Covert NPD type almost to a T.

I've been on SI for awhile - not sure if it's been a year? Most posts I make get the response to "run, don't walk" away from my WBF, but we're still together, living together, and on one job, working together.

This may be lengthy.

It's a fucked up situation. And I've only just realized how far I've been sucked in, how his constant digs and "do things my way" are eating away at me. I'm depressed, I feel weak, I have a good week or two, or day or two - I'm underemployed, looking for work. I'm active and proactive for awhile, but lately - not so much. I'm tired and don't want to do much.

I saw red flags all over the place when I met this guy in 2007. But, being very familiar with BP disorder (family members), I attributed his odd and inappropriate behaviors to his illness. Now, after all I've been through and am still going through, I feel he also has NPD, and for that, there is no treatment. I mean, I think that it's not treatable, is that true?

It just doesn't seem like he is capable of change. I don't know why I didn't see how fucked up he was, and I can't believe I thought I would be exempt!! What was I thinking?? I saw him manipulate others, and TRY to manipulate me, at first. But I thought I was too smart to be a victim of those behaviors! Ha! Not exempt, not impervious, not so smart. Also, as time passed, I thought no, not me, he loves meeee...riiiight...

I need to break away, but I have no resources. I'm working on that. I still love him, and things will go great for a month, 6 weeks, and I'll forget what a selfish prick he can be. Then BLAM.

I recently posted a whole big "Series of Unfortunate Birthday Events" in the General forum, but I'll pick up here:
He just steamrolled over my 50th birthday (day before yesterday). I had told him a few months ago how big this birthday is for me, how I really didn't see my life this way at 50, I really wanted to celebrate to somehow counterbalance all that. Since he fucked up my birthday last year (1rst bday post DDay), I wanted to give him fair warning that I expected him to treat me well on my birthday, plan ahead, just something(!!)

Of course he did nothing. His birthday is a few days before mine, he practically had a panic attack on his birthday, he had a rough day. I should mention this is the first year I didn't do anything for his birthday. I usually make an effort (see my Unfortunate post), but I just didn't have it in me this year.

Knowing how broke we are, and knowing him, by his birthday I already knew he had nothing planned for mine. So I said - I get paid on my bday, so let's celebrate both birthdays that night, we'll go out to xx for dinner! We agreed this sounded good. A good compromise. Since that's all I ever fucking do is be diplomatic and compromise my ass off. I think the level of compromise is also eating away at me.

Birthday morning, he plays me some birthday songs on Bluetooth, sweet. He makes and brings me coffee (!), love it. He posts an inappropriate music video ("Birthday Sex") to my social media... great.

Work goes fine, we are working together, and at the end of my shift, I go into the breakroom, and the company has surprised me with gourmet cupcakes and a card!! So sweet! No one is in the room except WBF and one other coworker. Of course I'll wait until everyone comes in to take a cupcake. My WBF is seated at the table, eating. He's eating one of my cupcakes. I hadn't even seen them, and he's already eating one. He's eating my birthday cake without me. I thought, this says it all.

That was when the day started to go downhill, I think because I was getting attention. I got paid, but had to take care of a bill, so we had a limited amount of money. Then on the way home, he wanted to borrow $40. We stop by the store and get what he wants. Then I remembered my headlight had gone out, and knowing we would be driving out for birthday dinner, I wanted to grab new lights at the store (my WBF is very handy and can replace the light, no problem) so we stopped and got those. He's becoming agitated, he's 3 hours late taking his BP meds, and still off kilter from being late the previous day.

We finally get home, and he realizes I want him to change the light before we go out, and starts to get angry about it. I said - not right now, come in and relax awhile. He completely explodes. Fit of rage. Yelling at me, not listening to me, being horrible, blame shifting for I don't even know what. I tell him, forget it, we'll stay home, I'd rather have him in a good mood, but it was "TOO LATE!!!" for that. Ignoring what I wanted, he stormed out to work on the car. I started doing dishes, thinking - perfect. Just how I envisioned spending my 50th. I let him have his space, and after about a half hour I went out in the dark to hold a flashlight, but he sent me away, still angry.

Eventually, he finished and came in. I had ton of dishes, so was still doing them. He'd been rotten to me, and I was fine just doing dishes. Eventually, after some time, he wandered into the kitchen and started towel drying the silverware and putting it away (this never happens). Obviously he wants to make up. Pfffft. I continue washing. When I am too tired to do more (I haven't sat down since coming home from work) I go lay down in the room, go on social media - a land where friends are wishing me happy birthday. A land where I am being celebrated and loved. As I am about to go to our bathroom to get ready to go out (in hopes we might still go), WBF comes in with two of the cupcakes, a candle burning in each. (Again, olive branch but no apologies for the awful way he treated me and things he said.) We each make a wish and blow them out. I'm not hungry for cake, it's 8:00pm and I haven't had dinner.

Makeup on, only half my clothes changed because I don't know if we're going, I settle back in to social media for awhile. WBF mentions something, and then apologizes. I said for what? For earlier? He said sorry, I was frustrated. Sorry I ruined your birthday. But the only reason he says sorry, I feel, is so I won't be upset with him. It doesn't change the fact that he treated me horribly and yelled at me on my birthday. I'm waiting. I want HIM to say, let's go out, I'm sorry I was being a douche, let me make it up to you. Let's have that birthday dinner! But do you think that was forthcoming? You know what I had for dinner at 9:00pm on my 50th birthday? I bet you can guess. He drove through McDonald's.

Yesterday, I thought - that's it. There it is. There's no taking back what he did and didn't do for what should have been a loving celebration, an ushering in of a new and better age, a positive beginning to a new part of life. And he just rolls along like nothing happened. I still have that hollow feeling, two days later. Like Waiting for Godot. Every day I feel more diminished than the last.

[This message edited by gottagetpastthis at 4:23 PM, November 19th (Thursday)]

susieque2 posted 11/19/2015 21:41 PM

Oh my --- HAPPY BIRTHDAY Girlfriend!!!!!
Sounds like a bummer but you do know YOU can change this BS. He did all of this to make your b-day shit so he could in some way turn the attention to him making it up to you!

I've been reading as much as I can about NPD -- do believe my son is a carrier --- so, so angry with him right now.

My DIL and beautiful grandsons do not deserve what they're going through --- JUST like you don't!

PLEASE RUN as fast as you can!!! FAST

gottagetpastthis posted 11/20/2015 19:52 PM

Thank you SQ2! It's just unreal right now. I still need to get on a better footing before I make a move - I think I have to suck it up through the Holidays, and just expect more of the same. We are working on this project together through January, and I'm still trying to get a day job. I will just continue to try to steel myself against it his destructive whims.

It's hard, the constant little insidious put downs, gas lighting. But I've decided to respond to every single put down, I've been doing it the past couple of days. It brings my attention to how often it happens, and it brings his attention to the fact that I'm calling BULLSHIT.

Yesterday when he made a comment about don't I want to put on some makeup before we go (and I already had), I took a selfie and posted it with what he said. I got overwhelming positive, supportive response. I don't usually call people out on social media, but it felt really good. It was great to see his face as he scrolled down and discovered it, too - slightly flabbergasted.

I'm tired of it, his passes ran out. I'm calling him out - whenever possible- every time he criticizes the way I do something, every little chip. No wonder I feel so fucking worn down and tired. Constantly on the defense. I just wish I was stronger - this shit really does affect me. I want to get to the point where it just rolls off, "like water on a duck".

Devastated2015 posted 12/11/2015 10:19 AM

Wow! My husband of 13 years who was just diagnosed with NPD and a serial cheater is my father who I have not seen in 20 years. Is it really so? Did I actually marry a narcissit because my father was one? My brain is on overload with all the information has been piled on me in the last week.

TheRealDeal posted 12/21/2015 07:17 AM

Recognizing you've reached the decision to end things is never easy. For those that are/have dealt with NPD spouse it would seem even more so.

How did you tell NPD you were done and needed to divorce? Was it a conversation with them, as much as you can say a conversation can take place with NPD? Or was it some other manner?

I find myself wanting to have that conversation - and at the same time wonder why try to talk to him since that concept doesn't really exist with NPD.

Going to explore 'why' in IC but wondered what your experience was in telling your NPD-spouse that you've reached a decision. Or how you did it.

cantaccept posted 12/21/2015 07:55 AM

Hi TheRealDeal, my x was never officially diagnosed as anything more than emotionally immature with narcissistic tendencies. Then therapist qualified this with, "it is very hard to diagnose when someone lies in therapy".

So having said that, I think it varies depending on the person and their motives as to how they will react.

My x ran on both ddays, out the door instantly. He is a coward. He cannot stand to be held accountable or to face anything that tarnishes his image of himself. He has repeated this behavior over and over in his life. Damage, inflict pain, abuse and then run and start over in a new place with new people who do not know him.

I only found this out after dday. His whole history to me had been just bits of truth twisted into a version that made him look like the victim or that he had worked on issues and learned from them. Just a mind bender.

After dday 2 he never came back and rented an apartment. He did contact me begging for another chance and would do anything.

I gave him 3 things to do, he did none. He told me to stop asking so I did, then I reinstated the divorce.

Then the anger and abuse came back. I was afraid for a bit, not sure how far he would go. He was doing some stalking and the texts and email got so crazy that I had to block him.

I think you just cannot know what they will do. You need to be prepared for anything. The biggest risk I think is when you think he would never do that. I tended to minimize and I think still do at times.

Be prepared for the worst, protect yourself. They are unpredictable. Imagine the worst and be prepared.

I don't think there can be any real discussion. I sure did try though! Round and round in circles until I felt my head would explode. No question was answered or if it was the answer would change at any moment over and over and over.

He became so verbally abusive, tried to inflict as much pain as possible, said whatever cruel thing he could think of, went for the vulnerable spots because he knew them.

My final decision was made when I finally accepted that he was not capable of loving anyone, this is who he is, he does not want to change or is not able to. Then to the realization of why would I want to be married to someone that I don't like and want to change so drastically?

I told him through text. I know it sounds cold but honestly it wasn't. I had attempted talking and gave him the path to take very clearly to rebuild with me. I was very clear. Too clear. I even told him when he said to stop asking that this was the end and I wouldn't wait any longer for action. He said he knew.

Then he was angry that I was leaving him!

Be careful how you tell him. Then be careful afterwards. Plan carefully, get your ducks in a row.

I don't know how I would have done it if he were living with me.

WornDown posted 12/21/2015 10:35 AM

email and having the lawyer send the papers. I wasn't around (I was out of state for work), and didn't want to be. There was no point in getting the blow back from xWW. And the lies, the blameshifting, the gaslighting, etc.

Put it in writing and send it. Having a "conversation" just gives them more time to engage with you and push your buttons. It's what they do.

TheRealDeal posted 12/21/2015 16:09 PM

Thank you Can and WornDown,
I'm still trying to reconcile in my head who I thought I knew with who is actually is. Its like my life with him has all been a lie; I am authentic and he is not. Its a total mindfuck and I can't wrap my head around it...yet.

cantaccept posted 12/22/2015 05:33 AM

TheRealDeal, you are welcome. Hope it helped in some small way.

I really do understand how hard it is to wrap your head around. It is so hard to comprehend. I think I still "forget" at times. Luckily for me I am mostly no contact. Well I do not contact him or respond to him but he manages to slip through my blocks on occasion.

The only thing that does now is to confirm that he is still who he was and he is more twisted than I can comprehend.

I find myself saying over and over when I have a memory or he sends some really insane email..."who does that???"

I found that lots of reading about personality disorders helped me to believe, it was validation.

A couple of sites that helped me very much, Safe RElationships by Sandra Brown and Character Matters by DR. George Simon. Also Psychopaths and Love. Good articles. I could relate to so much of it.

The articles by Dr. Simon were like reading about my life. It also helped me to understand why I fell for it and to be more compassionate towards myself for being conned. It really does feel like a con. Maybe not a deliberate con but he did portray himself to be something he wasn't.

I often think now he didn't just lie about things he did, he lied about who he was, what he felt and what he thought.

It is a total mind-fuck.

I tried for so long to unravel, to gain some sort of understanding with him about what and why, some type of closure. It was not to be had, impossible. I don't even know if he realizes how "different" he is, to him he has always been this way and has never perceived a different way.

I feel sorry for him sometimes but carefully and from a distance, only in my mind, never out loud. It would put me at risk.

Be very kind to yourself and patient. This is hard to accept and then recover from.

Are you in IC? I think it could be helpful if you have a therapist that is knowledgable about personality disorders.

For now though really protect yourself. Be careful what you say to him. Be aware that the rage can come at any time. Well at least with my x that was true.

WornDown posted 12/22/2015 08:21 AM

I'm still trying to reconcile in my head who I thought I knew with who is actually is. Its like my life with him has all been a lie; I am authentic and he is not. Its a total mindfuck and I can't wrap my head around it...yet.

That's the worst part about infidelity, and compounded by the B/NPD.

I'm divorced (separated for 18 mo now) and seeing someone else, but there are times I still long for what was - my family, loving wife, etc. I think, "Well, if she really changes this time, maybe we can get back to that."

Then she goes and pulls some BS, and I get reminded that that was a fantasy, and I'm seeing who she really is now. It sucks.

I just hope that with time, I get to Meh, and completely move on.

TheRealDeal posted 12/23/2015 12:33 PM

Thanks for all the responses.

Yes I'm in bi-weekly IC. Lately I'm back to going every week since I'm working thru a lot of stuff. my IC is very good; I've had to unravel a lot of FOO. I've done that hard work over the years and am now coming out of self-denial to see what is front of me. Scary work and sometimes its 1 step forward and 5 steps back. IC has experience with personality disorders, PTSD, addictive behaviors, infidelity. Truly blessed to have been referred to him 2.5 years ago.

I will look into those sites, too. I had recently bought Object of My Affection is in My Reflection - Dealing With Narcissist While I usually can read a book within days, that book really impacted me and I could only read 1 or 2 pages a day. It was as if I was reading a description of my/WH life.

My personal growth continues and I'm just beginning to truly recognize his behaviors as something classified as a disorder. I've seen the extreme charm, but also the extreme verbal rage when things don't go his way. My family doesn't fully understand; they will only ever see the charming side of him. I've seen the opposite.

I'm glad to know there are others who truly understand the confusing feelings that swirl within yourself when dealing with npd.

Opinionsplease posted 12/24/2015 08:33 AM

I'm new to this thread. After DDay2 my therapist suggested ex might be psychopathic. Having read around I would say that if he is not, he is close to it.

It turns my whole concept of relating and how I process the loss on its head. I would love to hear from others. I'll read through the whole thread, haven't done it yet.

The main feeling is of a huge emptiness where I thought there was a relationship. Of nothing to learn, of false loss, of the loss of something that was never real, of the loss of that illusion, 3 years of my life given to it. Such emptiness, such disgust at this person whose empathy is all just an act. It's like he was made of plasticine. Moulded himself this way and that to "be" what I wanted until he decided to dump me for OW2. Such disgust. I can't get the thoughts out of my head. I need space and it disgusts me to have this psycho in my head trying to get to grips with him and having to do it - I can't bypass this process.

Please can I hear from anyone who's been through something similar. This is more than infidelity, more than a breakup. My world is really on its head in too many ways.

gottagetpastthis posted 12/26/2015 18:23 PM

Hey Opinionsplease, Sorry you are going through this. I'm just figuring out that my WBF has NPD on top of Bipolar disorder. My experiences may be different from yours, but there are many similarities, I'm sure. I'm still with my WBF, we live together, but I'm just coming to grips with this new understanding. And yeah, it's totally different dealing with this issue.

I've been watching tons of videos on YouTube about Narcissistic abuse and found support for survivors - listening to other people's stories, red flags, how to get on with your life, etc, and many times they do address that this is not your average breakup, because of the extent of damage the narcissist does to their victims, which often includes emotional abuse, financial abuse, all kinds of abuse. The amount of head games, gaslighting, and just crazy making behaviours! It's been really helpful for me. I still feel like I can't get a grip, I have no idea how to leave, I'm still enmeshed. But the videos and Facebook pages help me feel not so alone, and provide me with information, and understanding. Sometimes I just feel so paralyzed, and watching, reading, listening to real people who have experienced the same things really helps me feel like - ok, I'm not crazy.

I have to go now, but hopefully I will get on later, I kinda wanna share what's happening with me, too. See if you can find Dana's videos - can't remember her last name! But if you google Dana Narcissistic support, you'll find her stuff. And there is more out there - Spartan Life Coach, a few others!

cantaccept posted 12/31/2015 09:17 AM

Just really feel a need to post this, to get it out to others that understand. As we all know this added twist to infidelity is so very hard to understand.

I have spent two years now reading about personality disorders trying to wrap my mind around what happened, what I was living, how could I live like that. Trying to make sense of it all.

It seems what I was searching for was trust. Trust in myself and my perceptions of reality. Validation that what I perceived as reality was the truth.

I needed to believe myself. The self doubt was overwhelming. All the years of being twisted, invalidated, made to feel like less than cost me my trust in my perceptions. I questioned if I was seeing things clearly. Was I perhaps rewriting? Was I demonizing? Was I just the scorned woman?

Finally, I finally believe myself. I know the truth and now I can trust what I lived. I can trust my perceptions. I know my truth.

I cannot seem to express how huge this is. It is freeing. I hope for all of you struggling still to wrap your mind around this that you come to this place of believing yourself.

Now I can accept because I know the truth of what I have to accept.

TheRealDeal posted 12/31/2015 09:42 AM

CanAccept - that is awesome! even better than awesome, that is monumental!! I am so happy for you.

Your posts help me more than you'll know; I've followed them since I joined SI. Hope that doesn't sound stalker-ish, its meant only as a compliment. Seems your XH is so much like mine I can relate to your stories.

I am slowly reaching the stage of fully trusting myself; I know I no longer trust WH version of the truth. Fully trusting myself seems so...foreign, almost. My perception is still in limbo; don't trust WH, don't trust myself...yet. My IC continues until I fully get it. I feel confident I will get there.

In the meantime, CELEBRATE your huge revelation, clarity and peace of mind that must bring to you. Wishing you continued peace throughout 2016

Carealot posted 1/3/2016 21:09 PM

Been reading here some lately and picked this gem up from someone's recs. to read... Thought some of you might find it useful. He said it's important to note that the issues of a person with character disorders are on a continuum...

This is a quote from a Dr. Simon article called, Personality and Character Disorders: When It’s Serious

"... And knowing that they’re the cause of that pain is what motivates a person of integrity and conscience to repair the damage. So when you’re tying to figure out how much hope there is for your relationship with a character-impaired individual, ask yourself the following questions:

When they say they’re “sorry” for something, do they subsequently act like they mean it?
When they say they accept responsibility, do they behave in a manner suggesting they feel obliged to correct matters or do they still insuinuate that other people, places, and things are partly or mostly to blame for the way they acted?
Are they more concerned with what their misbehavior has cost them in some way, or do they appear genuinely distressed by the damage done to another?
Most importantly, do you see purposeful, deliberate efforts on their part to repair damage they may have done and to do better in the future?

The most severely disordered characters are not the “hot-headed” types who sometimes let their passions get the better of them and do things they might sometimes later regret but rather the “cold-hearted” sorts who chronically and ruthelessly try to get the better of others. Can such folks change? I’m not so sure (and neither is the scientific research on the subject). The concensus these days appears to be that the best you can do is help a person with empathy come to see the practical social value in being more mindful of their behavior and its impact on others."

cantaccept posted 1/4/2016 06:38 AM

I love Dr. Simon's articles. Two that really hit home for me were "Regret, Sorrow and True Contrition" and "The Importance of Making Amends". Make that three, "Disturbed Characters and Making Amends".

It just helped me to believe that what I was looking for and not seeing was rational. I used to wonder if I was expecting too much.

Now I see I was accepting too little of the kind and accepting too much of the bad.

cantaccept posted 1/4/2016 06:55 AM

Just thought of another site with articles that may be helpful. It is called Neuroinstincts. I found it through the site by Sandra Brown, Safe Relationships. This particular article and many of the others were spot on. "Psychopaths and their reaction to causing harm". I could give an example of many of each thing she listed. It was a bit chilling.

It does seem the these personality disorders do fall on a spectrum of severity and also many of the characteristics overlap from one to another.

For me, I really don't care what his label is, the behaviors and the damage to me are clear enough.

It does help though to be validated. I found that was my biggest hurdle, believing my experience. It was such a relief when I finally regained my faith in my own perceptions.

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