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I am a WS and I'm finally NOT rationalizing anymore that my grief that prompted the A is equal to my BS is feeling now. While we know it takes "two to tango" in any relationship, and that nothing happens in a vacuum, it also doesn't change what I did. I used to often tell myself such things to feel "better" about what I did. And although my husband will say that he played a part in the difficulties in our relationship, this is on me. I threw the hand grenade when a fly swatter would have been sufficient. My actions and behaviors are so egregiously beyond what was called for.

I have long asked myself why I did what I did - and the truth is I don't fully know. I wasn't feeling heard and didn't feel loved - all the typical unattached feelings were coming up (I have a hx of trauma with my bio family) I did what I always did in order to not feel my pain or admit that I feel unworthy of any true love. My self talk, for as long as I can recall, is that I am unlovable and people will leave me. This self talk came about because I have had shitty things happen in my life (I have not had any contact with my bio dad since 2001.)

When humans are in pain, it is instinctual to look for ways to block that pain. Our brains are actually hard wired to helps us "instinctually" deal with possible pain (blocking your fall with your hands if you trip). Our choices are made based on what has worked for us in the past. My pattern is that I am a drama queen at times, and feel a need to be the center of attention at all times. It sickens me to write that, but it's the truth. I am very familiar with feeling less than and being afraid of abandonment. I have been with my husband 23 years, almost half my life time, and he has never once told me that he is leaving or packed a bag. I on the other hand continue with my dramatic gestures. Packed my bags after a fight because I was certain this was the end. It's almost like I am doing things to bring on my worst fear.

I continuously ask my husband to give me what I have been unable to give him. I suffer with pretty severe depression and tend to typically find myself in dark places. I don't like it, but it is familiar and I tend to always end up there. I am trying to humble myself as I realize I can be quite arrogant. I don't typically post on forums because I am scared of being called out for my bullshit. Sadly I tend to carry a big shovel. I am responsible for my pain. If I truly love my husband as much as I say I do, it is INCUMBENT on me to be there to let him feel his pain. I have a tendency to weaponize my depression as a way to emotionally manipulate my BH. (If he really loved me he wouldn't do things that make me feel so much pain..., right?) That is a common one I tell myself. I am asking him is to never have any strong negative emotions about me in any way. He should alter his feelings to protect mine. That is my fucked up thinking.

I am disgusted with myself and have a hard time looking in the mirror most days. All the relationships in my life have suffered or been destroyed by my behaviors. I often feel like the Tasmanian Devil, and then I realize that I am the one who has made the choices that I have made to get to this difficult place in my soul, as well as in my life. I am trying to forgive myself so that I am less defensive and better able to support my husband. I want to be there to hold his hand and hug him, or with far more difficulty, let him be angry and sleep downstairs for a few nights. This man has shown me how much he loves me throughout the years yet still the nagging negative self talk plays loudly in my brain. As long as I keep seeing myself as being unworthy and unlovable, I am going to keep doing things that will reaffirm my self view. I need to change my self talk. Somehow I need to love myself so that I can accept the love my husband shows me instead of constantly sabotaging in various ways. I truly welcome feedback and being called on my bullshit and rationalizations, and I deserve that (as painful as it will be for me to be challenged.)

[This message edited by TasmanianDevil at 10:14 PM, Saturday, October 21st]

Hi - I saw you commented on my other post and wanted to comment on yours.

I have no real words of wisdom, as I am in a similar boat. My d-day was only three months ago.

I just want to say I understand a lot of your pain. I too believe I am unlovable and that people will leave me, which was part of how I rationalized the affair. That he would end up hating me and leaving me regardless.

I have suffered from mental health problems for many years, whatever diagnoses you wanna slap on my problems. I've been in and out of hospitals and struggling to not be suicidal for more than a few months at a time.

Reconciliation is hard. This is the hardest thing I have ever done and that is saying something. I am not saying that to discourage you - I believe you've already taken a great step in the right direction by coming here and posting, and I believe it is something so worth fighting for.

Best of luck to you. I hope the pain eases for you and your partner soon.

First of all, I want to welcome you to SI. I’m glad you found your way here.

I don't typically post on forums because I am scared of being called out for my bullshit. Sadly I tend to carry a big shovel.

No one likes to be called out on their bullshit. Most WS that come here want to be a good person and have considered themselves as such outside of the affair. Unfortunately, in order to heal from an affair, there is a considerable amount of bullshit to wade through.

I encourage you to dig deep and find the strength within you to not quit now that you have started. Like redwoodforest said, this is the hardest thing you will most likely ever do. The good news is that there is hope. You can get through this. Whether or not you come out of this as the person you want to be is entirely up to you.

I recommend How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair and Not Just Friends. Get yourself a good IC (individual councelor). Work on a timeline of your affair and start to work on why you had the affair. This is a process (the why) that takes years, not days or months if you want to get it right.

Ask questions. That is what we are here for. I didn’t know much of anything when I got here and was very overwhelmed. Just take things day by day.

Start by being completely honest, transparent, and open with your spouse. Offer up passwords, make your phone available, social media transparent to him. Don’t be defensive and get vulnerable. Be willing to start difficult conversations rather than waiting for him to bring it up.

Share with us your specific struggles and we can tailor our advice to your needs.

Hi WalkinOnEggshelz,

Thank you for the welcome.

I think my biggest struggle is the fear of my husband telling me he has finally had enough and wants to leave. My husband is far more forgiving than I am. I get overwhelmed with my own emotions; it's all I can see in the fog. I have deep seated abandonment issues. When my mom and dad separated, I would wait by the window for my dad to pick me up for his "time" with me, and often he didn't show up. And when he did our time was spent with him criticizing me about something. I have not spoken to my bio dad since 9/12/2001. If my own father could abandon me then anyone else could also. I do not trust that I am WORTHY of love. Every time my husband is triggered and "goes dark" I become a hot mess.

I do not know how to argue or fight because I never learned the difference between the two. Any conflict in my mind is an equal to breaking up. I don't know how to sit with my own uncomfortable feelings and I just assume everyone else is the same. The irony is that I am very adept at helping strangers sort out their shit. I am a therapist, often even doing couples counseling, but just seem to pour hot oil on my own shit. Maybe I am constantly asking my husband to give me proof of his love for me.

I have been unable to give my husband the one thing he is asking for, and accurate time line regarding the EA (Possible ONS) with the professor early on in our relationship, when we were engaged. I really don't remember. It's not that I avoided telling him about the professor in 2009, (D Day 1) , I really did not remember until this past July during a EMDR training. However, I have to take ownership for not telling him what occurred, when it did.

My husband has access to my phone, email etc. I welcome his full knowledge and involvement. When I don't feel emotionally connected is when I seek alternative connection. I want my husband to know EVERYTHING that is going on in my life so he can be a part of it and support me. In addition to the current fall out from the affair, I have made a mess of other relationships as well. I am not close to my adult children, nor my mother and step father. My husband was a different faith than how my kids were being raised, and this has caused a great deal of tension over the years.

I want to be a better person and a better wife.

I think my biggest struggle is the fear of my husband telling me he has finally had enough and wants to leave.

In all honesty at this point, your husband has every right to leave if that is what he needs to do to heal. What so many WS don’t get is that it’s typically not the affair itself that dooms the marriage, but the WS’s actions (or inaction) after that leaves the BS with no other choice. It’s the lies, the defensiveness, the minimizing that becomes too painful.

Any conflict in my mind is an equal to breaking up.

You have thrown your husband a massive amount of conflict, yet he is still here. What an amazing gift! But if he does want to leave, you will be ok. You can survive this.

You have to learn to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. You have nothing to lose at this point. You need to dig deep and figure out what these affairs were about without blame to your husband or marriage.

Work on a draft of a timeline and fill things in as you make discoveries.

Hello and welcome to the Wayward side of SI. I'm a WS too and just wanted to let you know that you have been heard.

Letting go of the outcome is one of the hardest things we have to accept. My therapist asks me every now and then as a check in, "If your wife decides to leave even though you are no longer the person you once were, can you respect her decision and let her go while continuing to work on you?" Yes to both. I'm in a place now where I actually like myself and want to continue to work on me regardless of anyone or anything, but it took a lot of scary work to get there. Would it hurt if she did? Absolutely, but I know I can handle that pain without destroying myself and others in the process. I still have plenty of down days like any other human being, but I no longer wallow and seek external validation. For the first time in my life, I know my real worth.

Please keep posting, keep lurking, keep asking questions. We are here for you.

Thank you for all the feedback,

I have been attempting to respond but find it difficult. I am so horrified with myself. I was reading various stories from betrayed spouses and it sickens me that I belong on the wayward side. It is so not who I want to be, and yet here I am. My marriage is only one of the relationships I have broken in my life. I am am not close with my kids or parents, and have lost any fiends that I have had over the years. I look at myself and see a monster that I don’t like. My goal used to be to save my marriage, and that is still what I want but the goal is my husbands healing and happiness, whatever that looks like for him. I read in a post a wayward comment that everyday with their spouse is a blessing that they welcome. I do feel this way. I tell him that I will be here for as long as he will have me.

He wants more details about the "professor" And I don’t have any. I thought getting. A copy of a yearbook from 2001 would jog my memory but it hasn’t. I want to give him more information but I don’t have any. I am willing to take. polygraph, hypnosis, ANYTHING. I disgust myself. I am sorry if I sound like I am rationalizing, I don’t mean to.

I am in IC, have been for about 3 months. I used to pray, but I don’t feel worthy of it anymore. I feel and am a hypocrite. Working on liking myself but it’s not easy.

Thank you for the support.

Self deprecation is not going to help you or your husband heal. You may feel like a monster but you don’t have to be one. Turn that energy you use to beat yourself up with to be proactive in healing and digging deep to make the changes you want.

I recommended to you earlier to write the timeline you can and then work towards filling in the gaps. What reading are you doing?

I started a time line, but I really done remember anything to put on it. I have a friend that I went to grad school with, who I ate lunch with daily and she doesn't remember it either. I don't have a name, or anything. I am, not trying to be self deprecating, it's difficult when you can't remember. I know-how stupid that sounds as well...

The only reading I have done is really in this forum, and books stuff in school. I welcome any recommendations.

Thank You

Some great books:

How to Help your Spouse Heal From Your Affair
—short book and to the point.

Not Just Friends

Healing the Shame That Binds You

Brene Brown is also a great resource.

Hi WalkinOnEggshelz,

I just ordered the first 3 books you recommended and am looking forward to start reading them. I read your story and find it inspirational.

I am trying to write a response about my feelings but am having a difficult time doing it. When I think about my own pain, both in the past and currently, I begin to feel selfish that I am making it about my own pain and not his, and that feels like my pattern. I am feeling so desperate right now, and don't want to.

[This message edited by TasmanianDevil at 2:06 PM, Thursday, October 26th]

Maybe try journaling in a stream of consciousness method. Don’t think, just let the pen move.

Trust me when I tell you that in order to help heal your husband you need to heal yourself too. I know you think about the affair…how you got there, excuses you made to make it ok. Write down these thought when they happen. Don’t let them be fleeting. Writing it down will help you put the pieces together.

Remember that you peeling layers of an onion. The first layer, the lies you told yourself and the excuses is just the beginning. But you can’t get to the layer underneath until you can cleanly peel that first layer back. It doesn’t mean those excuses are true, we have all done a certain amount of blame shifting and gas lighting to get here. With each layer, you get a deeper understanding.

Again, helping yourself is helping your husband.